<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Good information to know, thank you.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">When will Linden Hills be buried and lit, then? My brothers and I are going to pay for the connection when it goes down my parents’ street and I’m going to relocate my servers to their house, pay for the service and give them access when the time comes.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">—</div><div class="">Ryan</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 27, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Justin Krejci <<a href="mailto:jus@krytosvirus.com" class="">jus@krytosvirus.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class=""><div class="">Well your assumptions have some faults in this case, eg no additional data centers are needed. It is quite easy to string central offices together, creating loops or daisy chains; USI is mostly looking to saturate the area with new fiber. Switching gear is also not terribly expensive. I manage the USI central office fttx gear for USI so I have a pretty clear understanding of this particular case. Since it is all active ethernet it is one strand of fiber per premises all the way back to the CO. There are no lease options available in the configurations we need; every fiber we order is custom built to our need. This minimizes waste. Greater than 99% of the fiber is all underground which is more expensive but also less likely to become damaged or affected by life going on above ground: vehicles, tree growth, tree cutting, vandalism, etc. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The fiber is mostly being built out more in Minneapolis right now but plans are rolling to quickly accelerate deployment and expansion. We are already looking into other cities in the area.</div><br class=""><br class=""><div class="">-------- Original message --------</div><div class="">From: Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman@cwis.biz class=""> </ryan.coleman@cwis.biz></div><div class="">Date:12/27/2014 12:20 PM (GMT-06:00) </div><div class="">To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list@mn-linux.org class=""> </tclug-list@mn-linux.org></div><div class="">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS </div><div class=""><br class=""></div>The cost is from 3 years of experience pricing up fiber - I’ve worked for low voltage installers since 2011. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The point is there’s a massive cost to building those central office switchers, both in materials and upkeep. If they have to lease existing fiber that will be cheaper initially than owning your own lines but the ROI would be well over 5-10 years, unless you have a lot of immediate signers.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don’t have a map handy for fiber optic paths but there isn’t a lot available going south at the moment. There are no major data centers (that I’m aware of) south of Bloomington (and the river) except for in Saint Paul but that’s an easy jump to make. So… consider that a proper switching model for MANs would require a datacenter or two, plus central offices, you can easily see the cost for building them eclipsing $1MM.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The most likely expansions will occur in Minnetonka where USI has a trunk line already, and hopefully soon further into NE Minneapolis outside of the Marcy area (they already have a number of condo and apartment buildings lit today but not enough to make a big impact).</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 27, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Justin Krejci <<a href="mailto:jus@krytosvirus.com" class="">jus@krytosvirus.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Ryan, can you share where you are getting all of your cost numbers and number of years estimates from? Some of your figures are way off.</span><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Getting into the suburbs will not be too hard. USI uses the central office model so the last mile fibers don't go very far.</div><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">-------- Original message --------</div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">From: Ryan Coleman<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><ryan.coleman@cwis.biz class=""></ryan.coleman@cwis.biz></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Date:12/26/2014 6:34 PM (GMT-06:00)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">To: TCLUG Mailing List<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><tclug-list@mn-linux.org class=""></tclug-list@mn-linux.org></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 26, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Justin Krejci <<a href="mailto:jus@krytosvirus.com" class="">jus@krytosvirus.com</a>> wrote:</div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif;"><p class="">Ryan,<br class="">Where are you getting your odds from? And what do you mean by "outer areas" exactly? Outside of the 494/694 loop?<br class=""><br class=""></p></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In order to have this happen there are MANY working parts to consider:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">1) USI needs to have trunk capabilities. And right of way. Major roads are out of the question — Take a look at the coverage maps and see that Lyndale is not the main run through South Minneapolis which means I can never get fiber from them</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">2) To keep the cost low USI needs to own the fiber. In the suburbs your best options today (and for many years to come) are owned by CenturyLink. I can get USI fiber in the burbs with a CL primary for about 10x the price of USI in Minneapolis.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">3) The cost to bury fiber is about $100/foot if you cannot directly bury the conduit. If you can dig and cover it’s about $10/foot (our termination point was about 1,800 feet from the building). </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The benefits and profits do not outweigh the costs for the production. So either USI leases cable from CenturyLink or Level3 - and that cost will be passed on to the customers. In the city USI has already seen a positive return and is likely going to turn a profit on the trenching in the next 5-10 years, but going from a hub to, say, Burnsville? My commute to Burnsville is 12 miles each day… If they have to use a DitchWitch™ the whole way that could easily cost more than $5,000,000. Can they turn that + the branch routes out of Burnsville in 10 years? Maybe, but that’s really a tall order. Not to mention the capital cost of the hardware - these switches at the distribution point are very expensive.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There’s a reason the Minneapolis WiFi project took off and succeed as quickly as it did: the general cost to product a pole node and connection back to the hub was about $4500 each. A little more or less depending on the link type (copper, fiber or radio) and then have a radio technician come back after the hardware is installed and lit up (powered) to tweak any settings if needed.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">—</div><div class="">Ryan</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif;"><p class="">On 25.12.2014 14:02, Ryan Coleman wrote:</p><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="padding-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; margin-left: 5px;">That’s 10GBE; We’ve had 1GBE in the city for almost 5 years now.<div class=""> </div><div class="">Odds are the outer areas won’t get serviced simply due to cost - my last job had a quote for $20,000 to get 1GBE service to our office in Cottage Grove - and we had the school district literally across the highway.</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""> </div><div class="">—</div><div class="">Ryan</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="padding-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; margin-left: 5px;"><div class="">On Dec 25, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Saul Alanis <<a href="mailto:sdalano@gmail.com" class="">sdalano@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list:<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis" class="">http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis</a></div><div class=""> </div><div class="">A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC.<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/" class="">http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/</a><br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of Burnsville/Dakota County will get their act together and join the 21st century.</div><div class=""> </div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota<br class=""><a href="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org" class="">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</a><br class=""><a href="http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list" class="">http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list</a></div></blockquote></div></div><br class=""><pre class="">_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
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<a href="http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list" class="">http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list</a>
</pre></blockquote><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota<br class=""><a href="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org" class="">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</a><br class=""><a href="http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list" class="">http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota<br class=""><a href="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org" class="">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</a><br class="">http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>