<html>
<body>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"> In reference to message 3<font size="2"> wh<font size="2">ere the writer states that a n<font size="2">eutral will neve<font size="2">r be "hot" to ground<font size="2">, he is mistaken. It will not happen if there are no<font size="2"> pro<font size="2">blems in <font size="2">the<font size="2"> wiring nor an open in the return for the neutral to the electrical panel, but if there is some ki<font size="2">nd of br<font size="2">eak in the neutral <font size="2">than there can be no current flow and no drop in voltage acro<font size="2">ss the load. The ne<font size="2">utral will then show to be hot to ground.
<br /><font size="2">In the old days when the service drop to <font size="2">a house was a se<font size="2">perate 3 wire affair (if they had 240volt service & not just 120v) there w<font size="2">ere times when the neutral might dis<font size="2">connect or break loose and <font size="2">fall off the hou<font size="2">se. When that hap<font size="2">pened, it would r<font size="2">esult in some possible major <font size="2">damage to the electrical equipment in the house. The 240 would then divide across the loads depending on what was turned on and the resistance of the individual loads. I have witnessed it in my 40 some yea<font size="2">rs as a<font size="2">n electric<font size="2">ian and beli<font size="2">eve me it can occur. Not so m<font size="2">uch now that they use a triple<font size="2">x where the hot wires wr<font size="2">ap around the neu<font size="2">tral support wire, bu<font size="2">t is can still occu<font size="2">r with some of the older circuits where the neutral was shared by two hot <font size="2">circu<font size="2">its on opposite sides of the line.
<br /><font size="2">It is also perfectly le<font size="2">gal to <font size="2">find un<font size="2">grounded 2 wire receptacles in residen<font size="2">ces as <font size="2">the<font size="2">y are "grandfathered <font size="2">in" from a time whe<font size="2">n that <font size="2">was<font size="2"> an accepted wiring method. Wh<font size="2">at is illegal is to wire in 3 pron outle<font size="2">ts on those un<font size="2">grounded circuits. Most w<font size="2">ere wired with what is called kno<font size="2">b and tube wiring and there simpl<font size="2">y<font size="2"> is <font size="2">nothing <font size="2">grounded. Other<font size="2">s come from a time when metal flexible conduit was used and those can b<font size="2">e changed out for grounded receptacles i<font size="2">f the <font size="2">ground is still intact. It needs to be tested by someone<font size="2"> who knows <font size="2">what he is <font size="2">doing.
<br /><font size="2">Ken <font size="2">Lynes</font></font>
<br /></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>
<br />
<br /></font>------ Original Message ------
<br /> <b>Received: </b>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 08:05:35 PM CST
<br /> <b>From: </b>tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org
<br /> <b>To: </b>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
<br /> <b>Subject: </b>tclug-list Digest, Vol 97, Issue 11
<br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; WIDTH: 100%">
<div> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
<br /> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
<br />
<br /> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
<br /> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
<br /> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
<br /> tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org
<br />
<br /> You can reach the person managing the list at
<br /> tclug-list-owner@mn-linux.org
<br />
<br /> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
<br /> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
<br />
<br />
<br /> Today's Topics:
<br />
<br /> 1. Re: Does anyone have a batch slide scanner for borrowor sale?
<br /> (Chuck Cole)
<br /> 2. Re: power (gregrwm)
<br /> 3. Re: power (Chuck Cole)
<br /> 4. Re: power (Ryan Coleman)
<br /> 5. Re: Does anyone have a batch slide scanner for borrowor sale?
<br /> (Chuck Cole)
<br /> 6. Re: Does anyone have a batch slide scanner for borrowor sale?
<br /> (Ryan Coleman)
<br /> 7. Re: Does anyone have a batch slide scanner for borrowor sale?
<br /> (Chuck Cole)
<br />
<br />
<br /> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
<br />
<br /> Message: 1
<br /> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 18:57:50 -0600
<br /> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole@earthlink.net>
<br /> To: "'TCLUG Mailing List'" <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
<br /> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Does anyone have a batch slide scanner for
<br /> borrowor sale?
<br /> Message-ID: <9A38FD4AD94E4D8FB06D3B60CD95EA4C@d830a>
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br /> > -----Original Message-----
<br /> > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
<br /> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Lunde
<br /> > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 7:10 AM
<br /> > To: TCLUG Mailing List
<br /> > Cc: TCLUG Mailing List
<br /> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Does anyone have a batch slide
<br /> > scanner for borrowor sale?
<br /> >
<br /> > I tried to do this very same project. The auto loaders jam
<br /> > and it takes forever.
<br /> >
<br /> > Follow Scancafe on twitter and wait for a 1/3 off (or better)
<br /> > sale. I realize that this sounds like an ad, but I'm just a
<br /> > happy customer.
<br /> >
<br /> > I'd been playing with slide scanners on Linux (e.g. a
<br /> > Coolscan LS-30 with Vuescan) since 1998 (!) & finally went
<br /> > the SC route. Wish I had done so years ago.
<br /> >
<br /> > Thomas
<br />
<br /> Have had need for lots of extra time per slide using my scanner due to dust,
<br /> etc. Just not practical, so SC is very attractive.
<br />
<br /> I don't use Twitter, etc. Is there a more open way to learn of sales?
<br /> By 1/3 off do you mean 1/3 or more off the $0.22 batch price shown on their
<br /> site? Ie, less than $0.15 each in batches?
<br />
<br />
<br /> I have mostly slides in standard plastic or cardboard mounts. These are
<br /> usually not flat.
<br /> Does SC assure media is flat (or compensate - which?) before scanning so all
<br /> is sharp?
<br />
<br /> Does SC <http://www.scancafe.com/> automatically remove dust and scratches
<br /> at no extra charge, or are those digitized unless extra work is ordered?
<br />
<br /> I did not find clear answers for all these issues on their site: where are
<br /> these covered?
<br />
<br />
<br /> Chuck
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br /> ------------------------------
<br />
<br /> Message: 2
<br /> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 19:37:07 -0600
<br /> From: gregrwm <tclug1@whitleymott.net>
<br /> To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
<br /> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] power
<br /> Message-ID:
<br /> <CAD+dB9Au6mKPsdxRn1LZ+YnYfaqSqyWZzeno4A+uzV01Bp+xAQ@mail.gmail.com>
<br /> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
<br />
<br /> > It has been standard practice for many years that computers are
<br /> > required to have RF Interference suppression on all wires leaving the
<br /> > case, including the power wires. This includes capacitors between all
<br /> > three wires of the cord and the chassis of the computer. One result of
<br /> > this is that if the chassis ground wire in the power cord is not
<br /> > hooked to ground at the outlet, the capacitors inside the computer act
<br /> > as a voltage divider and some amount of the 120VAC line voltage will
<br /> > appear on the metal chassis of the computer.
<br /> >
<br /> > Similar bypass capacitors exist in almost all radio and TV equipment
<br /> > going back to well before WW2. (I used to own a WW2 radio that gave me
<br /> > a tingle every time I touched it while barefoot on concrete....) This
<br /> > is not a short or any sort of fault in the equipment, it is just an
<br /> > unintended consequence of the design and NOT having a chassis ground
<br /> > wire on the equipment. I'm also not saying that an electrical fault or
<br /> > short in the computer is impossible, just unlikely,
<br />
<br /> aha, this explains the current and many prior personal experiences. thank you.
<br />
<br /> > and if the
<br /> > equipment was properly grounded, an actual fault in the equipment
<br /> > would blow the circuit breaker through the chassis ground wire.
<br /> >
<br /> > Back in the early 60's, the electrical code was changed so that all
<br /> > new construction was required to use grounded outlets in the main
<br /> > living area of the house. Some time later this was extended to all
<br /> > wiring in the house, including basements. Eventually it became code
<br /> > that structures had to be upgraded to 3-wire outlets before they could
<br /> > be sold with a mortgage. Because of this it is very uncommon to still
<br /> > find old 2-wire outlets in a home. But that doesn't mean the outlet
<br /> > upgrade was done correctly.
<br /> >
<br /> > To upgrade house wiring, the minimum was to replace the 2-wire outlet
<br /> > with a 3-wire outlet and screw it into a metal outlet box that has
<br /> > metal conduit between the boxes. This is usually sufficient, but if
<br /> > any joints get rusty or loose, the grounding may fail.
<br /> >...
<br /> > I'd be most worried if you see the fault
<br /> > light flicker as you plug in a second cord to the outlet,
<br />
<br /> good point to watch for!
<br />
<br /> > This ground fault is the most likely reason the computers died,
<br />
<br /> guess what, on good power my saddest seeming loss is now so far
<br /> happily humming. insha'allah perhaps it's former flaky failures are
<br /> now well explained and history.
<br />
<br />
<br /> ------------------------------
<br />
<br /> Message: 3
<br /> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 19:39:05 -0600
<br /> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole@earthlink.net>
<br /> To: "'TCLUG Mailing List'" <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
<br /> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] power
<br /> Message-ID: <EF77DCCCA5F34E39BE79E4053031A67F@d830a>
<br />
<br /> NO! DIY electricians often do some really dumb wiring for power and phones,
<br /> etc.
<br />
<br /> > -----Original Message-----
<br /> > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
<br /> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Eric Crist
<br /> > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 9:59 AM
<br /> > To: TCLUG Mailing List
<br /> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] power
<br /> >
<br /> > This is patently false. The neutral doesn't ever get 'hot.'
<br /> > In fact, if you look in most electrical panels, the neutral
<br /> > and grounds are often tied together on a bus bar. The ONLY
<br /> > way you're getting shocked is if your HOT (black or red,
<br /> > usually) is shorted against the grate itself or another part
<br /> > of the HVAC system.
<br /> >
<br /> > -----
<br /> > Eric F Crist
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br /> ------------------------------
<br />
<br /> Message: 4
<br /> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 19:39:23 -0600
<br /> From: Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole@me.com>
<br /> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
<br /> Cc: "tclug-list@mn-linux.org" <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
<br /> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] power
<br /> Message-ID: <02C5CB1F-87C6-412A-A42C-EB07191B84CA@me.com>
<br /> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
<br />
<br /> Huh?
<br />
<br /> >> guess what, on good power my saddest seeming loss is now so far
<br /> > happily humming. insha'allah perhaps it's former flaky failures are
<br /> > now well explained and history.
<br /> >
<br />
<br />
<br /> ------------------------------
<br />
<br /> Message: 5
<br /> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 19:56:50 -0600
<br /> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole@earthlink.net>
<br /> To: "'TCLUG Mailing List'" <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
<br /> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Does anyone have a batch slide scanner for
<br /> borrowor sale?
<br /> Message-ID: <13CDE7FD3E6C4ACEA26820098BCE764D@d830a>
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br /> > -----Original Message-----
<br /> > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
<br /> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Coleman
<br /> > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 10:41 AM
<br /> > To: TCLUG Mailing List
<br /> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Does anyone have a batch slide
<br /> > scanner for borrowor sale?
<br /> >
<br /> > I'd be interested in renting one as well... I used the
<br /> > SuperCoolScan 5000 in my days in the photolab a decade ago
<br /> > and I want to archive my father's 5000-slide collection...
<br /> >
<br /> > I have no problem using bulk loaders - I know they jam but I
<br /> > can have it scan while I'm working and spend a minute or two
<br /> > an hour unjamming the auto-feeder.
<br />
<br /> DIY scanning often requires 10-30 minutes extra time PER SLIDE to remove
<br /> dust and scratches unless there's a batch version of ICE to both speed up
<br /> and automate this. My scanner doesn't have built-in ICE so it's a very
<br /> time-consuming process, and very hard for me to eliminate dust here. Still
<br /> doesn't deal with curved and popped slides in mounts.. Not auto flatten or
<br /> compensation.
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br /> Chuck
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br /> ------------------------------
<br />
<br /> Message: 6
<br /> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 18:59:00 -0600
<br /> From: Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole@me.com>
<br /> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
<br /> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Does anyone have a batch slide scanner for
<br /> borrowor sale?
<br /> Message-ID: <13DE1FD1-1520-4B3C-8586-BAE162EB3AE5@me.com>
<br /> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
<br />
<br /> Twitter isn't closed. Just "open" your web browser.
<br />
<br /> On Jan 4, 2013, at 18:57, Chuck Cole <cncole@earthlink.net> wrote:
<br />
<br /> >
<br /> >
<br /> >> -----Original Message-----
<br /> >> From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
<br /> >> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Lunde
<br /> >> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 7:10 AM
<br /> >> To: TCLUG Mailing List
<br /> >> Cc: TCLUG Mailing List
<br /> >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Does anyone have a batch slide
<br /> >> scanner for borrowor sale?
<br /> >>
<br /> >> I tried to do this very same project. The auto loaders jam
<br /> >> and it takes forever.
<br /> >>
<br /> >> Follow Scancafe on twitter and wait for a 1/3 off (or better)
<br /> >> sale. I realize that this sounds like an ad, but I'm just a
<br /> >> happy customer.
<br /> >>
<br /> >> I'd been playing with slide scanners on Linux (e.g. a
<br /> >> Coolscan LS-30 with Vuescan) since 1998 (!) & finally went
<br /> >> the SC route. Wish I had done so years ago.
<br /> >>
<br /> >> Thomas
<br /> >
<br /> > Have had need for lots of extra time per slide using my scanner due to dust,
<br /> > etc. Just not practical, so SC is very attractive.
<br /> >
<br /> > I don't use Twitter, etc. Is there a more open way to learn of sales?
<br /> > By 1/3 off do you mean 1/3 or more off the $0.22 batch price shown on their
<br /> > site? Ie, less than $0.15 each in batches?
<br /> >
<br /> >
<br /> > I have mostly slides in standard plastic or cardboard mounts. These are
<br /> > usually not flat.
<br /> > Does SC assure media is flat (or compensate - which?) before scanning so all
<br /> > is sharp?
<br /> >
<br /> > Does SC <http://www.scancafe.com/> automatically remove dust and scratches
<br /> > at no extra charge, or are those digitized unless extra work is ordered?
<br /> >
<br /> > I did not find clear answers for all these issues on their site: where are
<br /> > these covered?
<br /> >
<br /> >
<br /> > Chuck
<br /> >
<br /> >
<br /> > _______________________________________________
<br /> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
<br /> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org
<br /> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
<br />
<br />
<br /> ------------------------------
<br />
<br /> Message: 7
<br /> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:05:05 -0600
<br /> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole@earthlink.net>
<br /> To: "'TCLUG Mailing List'" <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
<br /> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Does anyone have a batch slide scanner for
<br /> borrowor sale?
<br /> Message-ID: <EF91FDCADEB44EF6AD4460E382498E5D@d830a>
<br />
<br /> You are very mistaken.
<br />
<br /> Closed by requiring membership and recording ID, opening possibilities of
<br /> identity theft, piracy access, spamming, etc.
<br />
<br /> I don't do promiscuous things like Twitter or Fazebook.
<br />
<br /> > -----Original Message-----
<br /> > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
<br /> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Coleman
<br /> > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:59 PM
<br /> > To: TCLUG Mailing List
<br /> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Does anyone have a batch slide
<br /> > scanner for borrowor sale?
<br /> >
<br /> > Twitter isn't closed. Just "open" your web browser.
<br /> >
<br /> > On Jan 4, 2013, at 18:57, Chuck Cole <cncole@earthlink.net> wrote:
<br /> >
<br /> > >
<br /> > >
<br /> > >> -----Original Message-----
<br /> > >> From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
<br /> > >> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Lunde
<br /> > >> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 7:10 AM
<br /> > >> To: TCLUG Mailing List
<br /> > >> Cc: TCLUG Mailing List
<br /> > >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Does anyone have a batch slide
<br /> > scanner for
<br /> > >> borrowor sale?
<br /> > >>
<br /> > >> I tried to do this very same project. The auto loaders jam and it
<br /> > >> takes forever.
<br /> > >>
<br /> > >> Follow Scancafe on twitter and wait for a 1/3 off (or
<br /> > better) sale. I
<br /> > >> realize that this sounds like an ad, but I'm just a happy customer.
<br /> > >>
<br /> > >> I'd been playing with slide scanners on Linux (e.g. a
<br /> > Coolscan LS-30
<br /> > >> with Vuescan) since 1998 (!) & finally went the SC route.
<br /> > Wish I had
<br /> > >> done so years ago.
<br /> > >>
<br /> > >> Thomas
<br /> > >
<br /> > > Have had need for lots of extra time per slide using my
<br /> > scanner due to
<br /> > > dust, etc. Just not practical, so SC is very attractive.
<br /> > >
<br /> > > I don't use Twitter, etc. Is there a more open way to
<br /> > learn of sales?
<br /> > > By 1/3 off do you mean 1/3 or more off the $0.22 batch
<br /> > price shown on
<br /> > > their site? Ie, less than $0.15 each in batches?
<br /> > >
<br /> > >
<br /> > > I have mostly slides in standard plastic or cardboard
<br /> > mounts. These
<br /> > > are usually not flat.
<br /> > > Does SC assure media is flat (or compensate - which?)
<br /> > before scanning
<br /> > > so all is sharp?
<br /> > >
<br /> > > Does SC <http://www.scancafe.com/> automatically remove dust and
<br /> > > scratches at no extra charge, or are those digitized unless
<br /> > extra work is ordered?
<br /> > >
<br /> > > I did not find clear answers for all these issues on their
<br /> > site: where
<br /> > > are these covered?
<br /> > >
<br /> > >
<br /> > > Chuck
<br /> > >
<br /> > >
<br /> > > _______________________________________________
<br /> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
<br /> > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org
<br /> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
<br /> > _______________________________________________
<br /> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
<br /> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org
<br /> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
<br /> >
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br /> ------------------------------
<br />
<br /> _______________________________________________
<br /> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
<br /> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
<br /> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
<br />
<br /> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 97, Issue 11
<br /> ******************************************
<br />
<br />
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>