<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">I'm afraid I missed the hearing, but there is one comment I need to make. <br><br>Government regulation is not the the panacea that some want to make it. I'm an amatur rocketeer and we (National Association of Rocketry and the Tripoli Rocketry) just completed a 7 year law suite against the ATF, costing the organizations over a million dollars, just to get the ATF to remove our primary rocket fuel off the low explosives list (since it wasn't). Being on the list required all of us to submit to a ATF background check (including finger printing and photographs) as well as some pretty tough and expensive regulations on storage and record keeping. All this for something that was no more explosive than a railroad flair. <br><br>So you have a choice, let Google control the internet, or
let the FCC. In my opinion, the government should keep their nose our. Look at what the FCC was doing with their "fairness doctrine", which squashed freedom of speech on the commercial radio and TV networks for many years.<br><br>And of course, leave it to Frankin to dig this up in an election year, not so much for himself, but for all the other candidates he's trying to get elected.<br><div> </div><span style="font-family: courier;">--- </span><br style="font-family: courier;"><span style="font-family: courier;">Wayne Johnson, | <span style="color: rgb(191, 95, 0);">There are two kinds of people: Those</span> </span><br style="font-family: courier;"><span style="font-family: courier;">3943 Penn Ave. N. | <span style="color: rgb(191, 95, 0);">who say to God, "Thy will be done," </span></span><br
style="font-family: courier;"><span style="font-family: courier;">Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | <span style="color: rgb(191, 95, 0);">and those to whom God says, "All right, </span></span><br style="font-family: courier;"><span style="font-family: courier;">(612) 522-7003 | <span style="color: rgb(191, 95, 0);">then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis</span><br></span><div><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Justin Krejci <jus@krytosvirus.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list@mn-linux.org><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thu, August 19, 2010 11:30:50 AM<br><b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [tclug-list] Net Neutrality hearing in Minnesota<br></font><br>
Feel free to call me cynical after you read this :)<br><br>In general i am a fan of net neutrality, i think corporate interests (greed<br>for money) will eventual lead to many companies elbowing out smaller or<br>undesireable voices from their large scale networks. on the other hand it is<br>a delicate situation because if a company invests in its own deployment of<br>network infrastructure why are they not allowed to divvy up access however<br>they like? the problem to me is these massive monopolies or even co-opolies<br>(is that a word?) will work for what their best interests are which<br>frequently will result in taking advantage of customers every chance they<br>get. then only after long and tiring government and private investigations,<br>court involvements, watch dog marketing campaigns, etc will there be a "take<br>it easy on the customers" change of attitude (at least enough change to stop<br>the onslaught). The importance of the internet to the
world i think means we<br>need to have some regulation on companies involved in connecting the<br>internet. it is not just a little side project/hobby/convenience for people<br>and companies, it is massively critical for large swaths of the population.<br>Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. It is another<br>challenging issue regarding personal rights, including "corporate personal<br>rights", and public good and "public rights". There are many examples of<br>this in history. Freedom, rights, responsibilities, value systems, beliefs,<br>nothing is easy when dealing with a large enough scales.<br><br>I tend to believe the strong pressure for companies to make money will not<br>result in a better internet overall if significant portions of the internet<br>are unevenly balanced with the sole reason being an advertiser is willing to<br>pay for it. The tight integration of the internet into more and more aspects<br>of our lives is making it
more and more an important part of our<br>infrastructure and less and less a convenience/luxury.<br><br>We need to be careful and having OPEN and FREE public discussions are<br>critically important. I am glad there are non trivial people attending this<br>like the FCC commissioners and Senator Franken and other prominent<br>individuals. The people need to be heard no matter their viewpoint. <br><br>As for the recent google/Verizon publicity, as far as I know they neither of<br>those companies have the rights to form, enact, or police government<br>regulations. As I understand it they are just making a proposal, which if<br>passed into law by our government would likely go thru tons of revisions<br>during their procedures of creating laws.<br><br>Wish I could go tonight but I have other commitments already.<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a ymailto="mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org"
href="mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org">tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org</a><br>[mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org" href="mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org">tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org</a>] On Behalf Of Ryan Coleman<br>Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 11:15 AM<br>To: TCLUG Mailing List<br>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Net Neutrality hearing in Minnesota<br><br>I found the guy pushing regulation (or in this case, making the unofficial<br>stance official) today on MPR was way off base.<br><br>He said that an independent blogger would have no voice without paying money<br>in the proposal by Google and Verizon. In my experience, this is not true;<br>they just won't reap the benefits of people getting their content at the<br>speed which their provider provides.<br><br>I can afford a 12Mbit/2Mbit line at home now. Cheaper than colocation of my<br>custom server (capacity right now of 7TB, soon 14TB) because I don't
have<br>$15,000 to spend on the rack space requirements for the servers plus the<br>monthly colocation costs for 2U to 8U of space.<br><br>My two bits.<br>--<br>Ryan<br><br>On Aug 19, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Erik Mitchell wrote:<br><br>> Harry, I think that's a very important point to make. There was a<br>> diary on DailyKos about the recent dustup over the Google/Verizon<br>> story:<br>> <br>><br><span><a target="_blank" href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/8/12/892044/-End-of-the-Internet-As-W">http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/8/12/892044/-End-of-the-Internet-As-W</a></span><br>e-Know-It!<br>> <br>> In short, it was broadly misreported by folks on the left. The story<br>> looked on the surface like a big corporations doing evil things story<br>> and so it got reported that way.<br>> <br>> In the process, the concept of net neutrality became redefined. Media<br>> outlets were defining it as saying that
different content TYPES should<br>> be treated equally, rather than different content providers.<br>> Obviously, if this definition of net neutrality took hold, it would be<br>> bad -- especially in wireless. If you have a minute, read the diary.<br>> The dkos guy does a better job of explaining it than I can.<br>> <br>> My hope is that there are people at this hearing that know what<br>> they're talking about, who will stand up and make a good case. I don't<br>> think more regulation on the internet would be a good thing. However,<br>> I support net neutrality, in that every person's or company's data<br>> should get the same priority as anyone else's (given the same type of<br>> content).<br>> <br>> Anyway, it's a tough issue to get your head around, especially for the<br>> layperson. And unfortunately, Congress is full of laypeople.<br>> <br>> Long live Ted Stevens,<br>> <br>> -Erik<br>>
<br>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Harry Penner <<a ymailto="mailto:hpenner@gmail.com" href="mailto:hpenner@gmail.com">hpenner@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>> At the risk of flames: the Internet as we know it has flourished in<br>>> large part because its original sponsor, the federal government, has<br>>> mostly left it alone. Why do we think adding government regulations<br>>> to it will make it better (or preserve the freedom we enjoy on it)?<br>>> Generally speaking, doesn't regulation take away freedom rather than<br>>> increasing it, by definition? I'm no futurist but it seems to me that<br>>> putting restrictions on the big guys is likely to affect us little<br>>> guys in some unforeseen but unpleasant way.<br>>> <br>>> Sorry if the above sounds trollish but I just think we should be<br>>> careful what we ask for. With companies you can
usually vote with<br>>> your feet to try to change or avoid their bad behavior, but<br>>> regulations are usually universal and forever... And the regs will<br>>> surely by written by people not nearly as close to or as thoughtful<br>>> about the problem as we tclug'ers...<br>>> <br>>> Seems to me we ought to show up and tell the FCC to keep their paws off<br>us.<br>>> <br>>> -Harry<br>>> <br>>> On Aug 19, 2010, at 9:52, Brian <<a ymailto="mailto:goeko@Goecke-Dolan.com" href="mailto:goeko@Goecke-Dolan.com">goeko@Goecke-Dolan.com</a>> wrote:<br>>> <br>>>> There will be a hearing on the Net Neutrality here in the Twin Cities.<br>>>> <br>>>> <br><span>>>> <a target="_blank" href="http://savetheinternet.com/mnhearing">http://savetheinternet.com/mnhearing</a></span><br>>>> <br>>>> <br>>>> I am not associated with this,
just thought people would be interested<br>>>> to know.<br>>>> <br>>>> ==>brian.<br>>>> <br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota<br>>>> <a ymailto="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org" href="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</a><br><span>>>> <a target="_blank" href="http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list">http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list</a></span><br>>> <br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota<br>>> <a ymailto="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org" href="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</a><br>>> <a href="http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list"
target="_blank">http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list</a><br>>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> -- <br>> Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:erik.mitchell@gmail.com" href="mailto:erik.mitchell@gmail.com">erik.mitchell@gmail.com</a><br>> <a ymailto="mailto:erik@ekmitchell.com" href="mailto:erik@ekmitchell.com">erik@ekmitchell.com</a><br><span>> <a target="_blank" href="http://ekmitchell.com/">http://ekmitchell.com/</a></span><br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org" href="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</a><br>> <a href="http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list" target="_blank">http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list</a><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>TCLUG Mailing List -
Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota<br><a ymailto="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org" href="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</a><br><a href="http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list" target="_blank">http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list</a><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota<br><a ymailto="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org" href="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</a><br><a href="http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list" target="_blank">http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list</a><br></div></div>
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