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Can anyone out there tell me how to configure a Radeon 1950Pro video card to work with special effects?<BR>
I would appreciate it.<BR>
Danny<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 2008-02-06 at 10:57 -0600, tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to</FONT>
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to</FONT>
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Today's Topics:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 1. Re: Open standards for government documents</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 2. Re: Open standards for government documents (Troy)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 3. Re: sudo (Mike Miller)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 4. Re: sudo (Andy Schmid)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 5. Re: sudo (Mike Miller)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 6. Re: Open standards for government documents (Steve Cayford)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 7. Re: Open standards for government documents (Troy.A Johnson)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">----------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 1</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 06:52:58 -0600</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: "Brian D. Ropers-Huilman" <<A HREF="mailto:brian@ropers-huilman.net">brian@ropers-huilman.net</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Open standards for government documents</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: "Tony Yarusso" <<A HREF="mailto:tonyyarusso@gmail.com">tonyyarusso@gmail.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Cc: <A HREF="mailto:ubuntu-us-mn@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-us-mn@lists.ubuntu.com</A>, <A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> <<A HREF="mailto:f0e11c480802060452w610f72adr5601abbb61cce2c@mail.gmail.com">f0e11c480802060452w610f72adr5601abbb61cce2c@mail.gmail.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">On Feb 6, 2008 12:26 AM, Tony Yarusso <<A HREF="mailto:tonyyarusso@gmail.com">tonyyarusso@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> As noted on my blog, I attended my caucus tonight, and decided to present a</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> resolution for mandating the use of ISO-approved open standards for all new</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> government documents and all being newly converted to electronic form,</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> I was wondering if anyone else had similar resolutions brought up in their</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> precinct, and if so, what was the result? The only concern raised against</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> mine was wondering what the potential cost would be, although I think we</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> have a solid argument there in that it would cost essentially nothing to</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> implement open formats in a forward-only manner, and the real cost only</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> comes in with retroactively converting existing documents</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">I am a strong proponent of open source and have even been accused of</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">evangelicalizing at times. I pushed my extended family to move to</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">OpenOffice years ago, as I did.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Having said that, however, we need to be careful when we talk about</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">costs. There certainly will be a cost involved in such a conversion,</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">not in the cost of the format or of the software to produce documents</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">in that format, but in terms of training. Like it or not, there are</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">differences in the applications that support open formats and those</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">that don't and those differences will have to be trained before users</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">are fully accepting of the new applications and their new formats.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">I just needed to point that one out.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">We did not stay for our actual caucus last night as our kids would</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">have melted. I'm not aware of any discussion in that regard either,</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">but I applaud you for bringing it up and am excited that your</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">resolution passed.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">-- </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Brian D. Ropers-Huilman</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 2</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 07:46:51 -0600</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: Troy <<A HREF="mailto:troythetechguy@gmail.com">troythetechguy@gmail.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Open standards for government documents</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: "Brian D. Ropers-Huilman" <<A HREF="mailto:brian@ropers-huilman.net">brian@ropers-huilman.net</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Cc: <A HREF="mailto:ubuntu-us-mn@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-us-mn@lists.ubuntu.com</A>, <A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> <<A HREF="mailto:34de7f3d0802060546p6dfb598fwf125281092955712@mail.gmail.com">34de7f3d0802060546p6dfb598fwf125281092955712@mail.gmail.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Great idea Tony. I wish I would have thought of offering the open standard</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">as a resolution as my caucus too.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">As Brian points out, there is the cost of training involved with any</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">conversion. However, I think this touches on the fundamental issue of how</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">we teach people to use software. This topic was mentioned in another list</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">that I am a member, and the consensus was we teach kids to use MS Word, not</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">word processing software. It would be nice if schools at least touched on</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">alternatives to MS products.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Troy</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">On Feb 6, 2008 6:52 AM, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman <<A HREF="mailto:brian@ropers-huilman.net">brian@ropers-huilman.net</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> On Feb 6, 2008 12:26 AM, Tony Yarusso <<A HREF="mailto:tonyyarusso@gmail.com">tonyyarusso@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > As noted on my blog, I attended my caucus tonight, and decided to</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> present a</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > resolution for mandating the use of ISO-approved open standards for all</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> new</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > government documents and all being newly converted to electronic form,</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> ></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > I was wondering if anyone else had similar resolutions brought up in</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> their</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > precinct, and if so, what was the result? The only concern raised</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> against</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > mine was wondering what the potential cost would be, although I think we</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > have a solid argument there in that it would cost essentially nothing to</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > implement open formats in a forward-only manner, and the real cost only</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > comes in with retroactively converting existing documents</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> I am a strong proponent of open source and have even been accused of</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> evangelicalizing at times. I pushed my extended family to move to</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> OpenOffice years ago, as I did.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> Having said that, however, we need to be careful when we talk about</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> costs. There certainly will be a cost involved in such a conversion,</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> not in the cost of the format or of the software to produce documents</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> in that format, but in terms of training. Like it or not, there are</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> differences in the applications that support open formats and those</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> that don't and those differences will have to be trained before users</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> are fully accepting of the new applications and their new formats.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> I just needed to point that one out.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> We did not stay for our actual caucus last night as our kids would</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> have melted. I'm not aware of any discussion in that regard either,</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> but I applaud you for bringing it up and am excited that your</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> resolution passed.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> --</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> Brian D. Ropers-Huilman</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> _______________________________________________</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> <A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> <A HREF="http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list">http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">-- </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Website of the week:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.ubuntu.com/">http://www.ubuntu.com/</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">The Free Alternative to M$ Office:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.openoffice.org">http://www.openoffice.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">My Blog:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://troythetechguy.blogspot.com">http://troythetechguy.blogspot.com</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">-------------- next part --------------</FONT>
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 3</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:46:15 -0600 (CST)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: Mike Miller <<A HREF="mailto:mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu">mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] sudo</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: Andy Schmid <<A HREF="mailto:andyschmid@gmail.com">andyschmid@gmail.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Cc: <A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID: <<A HREF="mailto:Pine.GSO.4.60.0802060841101.6955@taxa.epi.umn.edu">Pine.GSO.4.60.0802060841101.6955@taxa.epi.umn.edu</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, Andy Schmid wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> On Feb 5, 2008 5:11 PM, Mike Miller <<A HREF="mailto:mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu">mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu</A>> wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">>> Thanks, Dave. Very interesting. How about: A random string is the</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">>> hardest password to guess.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> I disagree. There is the chance (albeit very slim to none) that a </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> random string can produce a password such as '1234', which can be easily </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> cracked.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">I thought about that too, but the thing is, if the wouldbe cracker knows </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">that it is a random string (and he would know if that was the design of </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">the system), there will be no benefit to his guessing first things like </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">"1234," but if he knows that you have disallowed things like "1234", then </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">you have helped him by cutting back on the number of things he must guess.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">So when using random strings you would *not* want to have rules like "must </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">include both upper case lower case letters, digits and non-alphanumeric </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">characters," because that rule would help a brute-force attacker.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Mike</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 4</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:58:20 -0600</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: "Andy Schmid" <<A HREF="mailto:andyschmid@gmail.com">andyschmid@gmail.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] sudo</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: "Mike Miller" <<A HREF="mailto:mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu">mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Cc: <A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> <<A HREF="mailto:7b7c42a30802060658k19c7d285ya357f7ffa4b5dd4b@mail.gmail.com">7b7c42a30802060658k19c7d285ya357f7ffa4b5dd4b@mail.gmail.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">On Feb 6, 2008 8:46 AM, Mike Miller <<A HREF="mailto:mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu">mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu</A>> wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, Andy Schmid wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > On Feb 5, 2008 5:11 PM, Mike Miller <<A HREF="mailto:mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu">mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu</A>> wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> ></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> >> Thanks, Dave. Very interesting. How about: A random string is the</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> >> hardest password to guess.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> ></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> ></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > I disagree. There is the chance (albeit very slim to none) that a</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > random string can produce a password such as '1234', which can be easily</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > cracked.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> I thought about that too, but the thing is, if the wouldbe cracker knows</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> that it is a random string (and he would know if that was the design of</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> the system), there will be no benefit to his guessing first things like</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> "1234," but if he knows that you have disallowed things like "1234", then</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> you have helped him by cutting back on the number of things he must guess.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> So when using random strings you would *not* want to have rules like "must</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> include both upper case lower case letters, digits and non-alphanumeric</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> characters," because that rule would help a brute-force attacker.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> Mike</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">This is a good point. But most brute force attacks are done using common</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">passwords across many hosts (typically from worms). If you have constraints</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">put in place that are wide enough, the number of password permutations is</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">still astronomical, with the chance of weak passwords being produced</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">eliminated. Though, its a good idea all around to disable login access for</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">the root account, as well as any other accounts you do not want logging in.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Andy</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">-------------- next part --------------</FONT>
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 5</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:32:50 -0600 (CST)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: Mike Miller <<A HREF="mailto:mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu">mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] sudo</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: TCLUG List <<A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID: <<A HREF="mailto:Pine.GSO.4.60.0802061031030.450@taxa.epi.umn.edu">Pine.GSO.4.60.0802061031030.450@taxa.epi.umn.edu</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, Andy Schmid wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> Though, its a good idea all around to disable login access for the root </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> account, as well as any other accounts you do not want logging in.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Yep. I understand that concept. I like to become root sometimes, but I </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">like the idea of sudo logging, so maybe I'd try to do things that way.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">I'm still mostly on Solaris (sparc) right now but it is time for a change!</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Mike</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 6</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:35:42 -0600</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: Steve Cayford <<A HREF="mailto:strayf@freeshell.org">strayf@freeshell.org</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Open standards for government documents</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: TCLUG <<A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID: <<A HREF="mailto:47A9E1DE.2020302@freeshell.org">47A9E1DE.2020302@freeshell.org</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Tony Yarusso wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> [...]</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> I was wondering if anyone else had similar resolutions brought up in </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> their precinct, and if so, what was the result? The only concern raised </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> against mine was wondering what the potential cost would be, although I </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> think we have a solid argument there in that it would cost essentially </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> nothing to implement open formats in a forward-only manner, and the real </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> cost only comes in with retroactively converting existing documents (and </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> the prioritization of my resolution was worded accordingly), and </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> regardless would be far less than the cost of trying to recover data </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> after a vendor went bankrupt, changed its terms, or any other similar </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> drastic blocking event to current documents.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> [...]</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Our precinct did not have time to go through all the resolutions and they </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">had to be passed along to the senate district conference en masse. So I </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">don't know what all the resolutions contained. I should have included a </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">resolution like that myself, but didn't think of it.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">As far as the cost... won't the older documents have to be converted to </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">something else at some point anyway? It seems like converting to an open </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">format could actually be cheaper than converting to Microsoft's next </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">document format.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">-Steve</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 7</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:55:22 -0600</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: "Troy.A Johnson" <<A HREF="mailto:troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us">troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Open standards for government documents</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: "Tony Yarusso" <<A HREF="mailto:tonyyarusso@gmail.com">tonyyarusso@gmail.com</A>>, "Brian D. Ropers-Huilman"</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> <<A HREF="mailto:brian@ropers-huilman.net">brian@ropers-huilman.net</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Cc: <A HREF="mailto:ubuntu-us-mn@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-us-mn@lists.ubuntu.com</A>, <A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID: <<A HREF="mailto:47A99218.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us">47A99218.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">>>> On 2/6/2008 at 6:52 AM, in message</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><<A HREF="mailto:f0e11c480802060452w610f72adr5601abbb61cce2c@mail.gmail.com">f0e11c480802060452w610f72adr5601abbb61cce2c@mail.gmail.com</A>>, "Brian D.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Ropers-Huilman" <<A HREF="mailto:brian@ropers-huilman.net">brian@ropers-huilman.net</A>> wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> On Feb 6, 2008 12:26 AM, Tony Yarusso <<A HREF="mailto:tonyyarusso@gmail.com">tonyyarusso@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">>> As noted on my blog, I attended my caucus tonight, and decided to present a</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">>> resolution for mandating the use of ISO-approved open standards for all new</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">>> government documents and all being newly converted to electronic form,</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">>> I was wondering if anyone else had similar resolutions brought up in their</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">>> precinct, and if so, what was the result? The only concern raised against</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">>> mine was wondering what the potential cost would be, although I think we</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">>> have a solid argument there in that it would cost essentially nothing to</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">>> implement open formats in a forward-only manner, and the real cost only</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">>> comes in with retroactively converting existing documents</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">...</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> Having said that, however, we need to be careful when we talk about</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> costs. There certainly will be a cost involved in such a conversion,</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> not in the cost of the format or of the software to produce documents</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> in that format, but in terms of training. Like it or not, there are</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> differences in the applications that support open formats and those</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> that don't and those differences will have to be trained before users</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> are fully accepting of the new applications and their new formats.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Keep in mind, however, that though some might not need training </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">for new versions of Microsoft Office, many do. And that training costs</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">are not limited to initial product roll out. There are many factors to be </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">considered:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">- Initial and ongoing end user training</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">- Upgrades and patching</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">- Buying, managing, and tracking licenses</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">- Researching, interpreting, and compensating for changing licensing terms</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">- Negotiating pricing at time of purchase</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">All of these take time and should be weighed on the cost side, </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">and I think there may be more. There are some of the same costs </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">for OpenOffice or similar products, but the purchasing and licensing </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">issues go out the window.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">It gets even more expensive if you want to convert documents, </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">for whatever reason. Unannounced, undercover document </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">conversion projects occur with almost every new version of </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Microsoft Office. They show up in higher numbers of Microsoft </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Office related trouble tickets, if nowhere else.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">_______________________________________________</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list">http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 38, Issue 6</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">*****************************************</FONT>
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