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Can anyone please explain to me in detail how to install a .bin file with Ubuntu 7.10?<BR>
Danny J.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 00:31 -0600, tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to</FONT>
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to</FONT>
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Today's Topics:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 1. Re: lost virtual consoles (p.daniels)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 2. New TCLUG Classified Ad (TCLUG Classifieds)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 3. Install Linux on your Old PowerPC Mac - Topic</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Jan 26, 2008 (Brian Dolan-Goecke)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 4. Re: Install Linux on your Old PowerPC Mac - Topic</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Jan 26, 2008 (Jima)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 5. Perl decrement question (<A HREF="mailto:rhubarbpie@poetworld.net">rhubarbpie@poetworld.net</A>)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 6. Re: Perl decrement question (Elvedin Trnjanin)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 7. tcsa meeting (Chris Gloege)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 8. Re: Perl decrement question (Leif Johnson)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 9. Re: don't order from Aztekcomputers (Munir Nassar)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 10. Re: Perl decrement question (Mike Miller)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> 11. Re: don't order from Aztekcomputers (Mike Miller)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">----------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 1</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:17:01 -0600</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: "p.daniels" <<A HREF="mailto:teeahr1@gmail.com">teeahr1@gmail.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] lost virtual consoles</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: TCLUG <<A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID: <<A HREF="mailto:200801171317.01408.TeeAhr1@gmail.com">200801171317.01408.TeeAhr1@gmail.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">On Wednesday January 16 2008 16:00:16 I wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> Tony, that link was very enlightening. Those are pretty much my exact</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> symptoms. I will do some more poking in that direction when I return</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> home and report my findings.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> Thanks again to all.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> -pd-</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Well, I tried a few of the suggested fixes in the ubuntuforums thread linked </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">to from the bug you pointed me to. Specifically, I enabled fbcon and vesafb </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">in my /etc/initramfs-tools/modules file and unblacklisted vesafb </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-framebuffers. No joy.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Then it occurred to (stupid old) me that I'm seeing boot messages when I start </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">up, but not when I shut down (the monitor goes to sleep as soon as KDE </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">stops). Ergo, it seems to me that it's not until KDM starts that I lose my </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">other consoles.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">I noticed in my kdm.log the line "(EE) intel(0): I830 Vblank Pipe Setup Failed </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">0" Might that be related?</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">-pd-</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 2</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:28:48 -0600</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: TCLUG Classifieds <<A HREF="mailto:webmaster@mn-linux.org">webmaster@mn-linux.org</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: <A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID: <<A HREF="mailto:200801172028.m0HKSmn02127@crusader.real-time.com">200801172028.m0HKSmn02127@crusader.real-time.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">New TCLUG Classified Ad</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Category: Computer</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Type of Ad: For Sale</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: cheap pc parts</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">time to thin the herd again....</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">--barebones midtower atx case, amd XP 200+ (1650mhz), 52x cdrom, elitegroup mobo w/ on board video, snd, nic., floppy...$40</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">32mb pc??? free w/ other purchase </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">64mb pc100/133 $0.25each </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">64mb pc100 ecc dimm sdram...$1each </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">128mb pc100 $1each </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">128mb pc133 $1.5each </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">128mb pc2100 $2 </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">128mb pc100 ecc dimm sdram...$2each </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">256mb pc2 3200 $3 </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">64mb RIMM (600-53-101 mr16r0824bn1-cg6) (pair is 128mb upgrade kit)...$10 </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">RIMM terminators...free w/ purchase </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">256mb RIMM (800-45-100 16/ecc kmmr18rgac1-rk8)....$5 (i only have one!!) </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">pc2 3200 ddr 256mb sodimm (NOTEBOOK)...$8 </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">ddr 2100 256mb sodimm (NOTEBOOK)...$8each </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">512mb ecc pc133 168pin...$20 </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">256mb ecc pc133 168pin...$15each </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">I also have a few 72pin 16mb, 32mb, 64mb ram </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">AMD Athlon 950mhz socket A/462..$2 </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Intel socket 370 PIII 866mhz 133mhz bus processors...$3each </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Intel socket 370 pIII 1000mhz 133mhz bus processors...$4each </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Intel socket 370 pIII 1200mhz celeron processor...$5 </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Intel celeron 1600mhz processor...$5 </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Intel pIV 1500mhz...$10 </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Intel celeron 1800mhz processor (a few bent pins)...$2each </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">PCI 4 channel sound card, csdx hsp56 cm18738..$5each </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Via based pci USB card vt83c572..$2 </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">D-link 530tx+ pci 10/100 network card New In Box...$5each </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">SMC 1211tx pci 10/100 network card New In Box...$5 </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">3D labs wildcat 5110 64mb video card..$5 </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Adaptec 131u2 scsi raid card..$2 </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Seller Email address: jungle at hickorytech dot net</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi">http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 3</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:59:56 -0600</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: Brian Dolan-Goecke <<A HREF="mailto:goeko@Goecke-Dolan.com">goeko@Goecke-Dolan.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: [tclug-list] Install Linux on your Old PowerPC Mac - Topic</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Jan 26, 2008</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: tclug-announce <<A HREF="mailto:tclug-announce@mn-linux.org">tclug-announce@mn-linux.org</A>>, Chris Oxenreider</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> <<A HREF="mailto:oxenreid@state.net">oxenreid@state.net</A>>, John Kuster <<A HREF="mailto:jrkbiz@sihope.com">jrkbiz@sihope.com</A>>, Dan Boehlke</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> <<A HREF="mailto:dan.boehlke@ties.k12.mn.us">dan.boehlke@ties.k12.mn.us</A>>, tclug-list <<A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A>>,</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> Wynn Hagemeyer <<A HREF="mailto:wynn@tux4pres.com">wynn@tux4pres.com</A>>, Rick Meyerhoff</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> <<A HREF="mailto:rick3104@gmail.com">rick3104@gmail.com</A>>, "Bob W. Anderson" <<A HREF="mailto:bobdove@isp.com">bobdove@isp.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID: <<A HREF="mailto:478FDDEC.9060205@Goecke-Dolan.com">478FDDEC.9060205@Goecke-Dolan.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">This months PenguinsUnbound.net meeting will be Saturday January 26,</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">2008 at TIES,</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">from 10:00 to 12:00.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">(See the web site <A HREF="http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Location_for_Meetings">http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Location_for_Meetings</A> </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">for directions and more info.)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">I will be install Linux Ubuntu 7.10 on a Power PC Mac. So bring your</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">old Mac (and your questions) and we will install Linux on it!</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Future_Meetings/20080126">http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Future_Meetings/20080126</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Thanks, hope to see you there.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">==>brian.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 4</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:19:57 -0600 (CST)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: Jima <<A HREF="mailto:jima@beer.tclug.org">jima@beer.tclug.org</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Install Linux on your Old PowerPC Mac -</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> Topic @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Jan 26, 2008</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: <A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID: <<A HREF="mailto:Pine.LNX.4.64.0801171819050.17671@beer.tclug.org">Pine.LNX.4.64.0801171819050.17671@beer.tclug.org</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">(Oops, meant to reply to tclug-list, not tclug-announce.)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Brian Dolan-Goecke wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> I will be install Linux Ubuntu 7.10 on a Power PC Mac. So bring your</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> old Mac (and your questions) and we will install Linux on it!</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> Just how old are we talking? B&W G3? Beige G3? 6400? *6100*? Pretty </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">vague. :-)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> (Sadly, I think I still have every one of those...some of which are still </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">happily running Linux.)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> Jima</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 5</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:47:36 -0600</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: <A HREF="mailto:rhubarbpie@poetworld.net">rhubarbpie@poetworld.net</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: [tclug-list] Perl decrement question</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: <A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID: <<A HREF="mailto:47901348.7070302@poetworld.net">47901348.7070302@poetworld.net</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">I'm a Perl novice and hope this is a proper channel for a simple </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">question. Why does the following decrement incorrectly below 10? It </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">works with $i -- or $i -= .5. This is part of a larger script and I've </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">made a workaround, but I'm still curious.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">use Math::Complex;</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">for ($i = 13; $i >= 1; $i -= .1) {</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> print"$i\n";</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">}</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">11</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">10.9</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">10.8</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">10.7</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">10.6</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">10.5</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">10.4</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">10.3</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">10.2</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">10.1</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">10</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">9.90000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">9.80000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">9.70000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">9.60000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">9.50000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">9.40000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">9.30000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">9.20000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">9.10000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">9.00000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 6</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:33:30 -0600</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: Elvedin Trnjanin <<A HREF="mailto:trnja001@umn.edu">trnja001@umn.edu</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Perl decrement question</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: <A HREF="mailto:rhubarbpie@poetworld.net">rhubarbpie@poetworld.net</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Cc: <A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID: <<A HREF="mailto:47901E0A.6040208@umn.edu">47901E0A.6040208@umn.edu</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="mailto:rhubarbpie@poetworld.net">rhubarbpie@poetworld.net</A> wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> I'm a Perl novice and hope this is a proper channel for a simple </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> question. Why does the following decrement incorrectly below 10? It </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> works with $i -- or $i -= .5. This is part of a larger script and I've </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> made a workaround, but I'm still curious.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Start $i from 100 and you'll notice that it happens for numbers greater </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">than 10. The reason for this is that certain numbers cannot be </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">represented accurately with the floating point representation your </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">computer architecture and data type use. IEEE 754 is a standard that </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">addresses this so try reading up on that if you're really interested. </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Any who, this is even worse in C with a float.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">float i;</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">for (i = 13; i >= 1; i -= .1){</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">printf("i equals %f\n", i);</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">}</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 13.000000</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 12.900000</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 12.799999</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 12.699999</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 12.599998</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 12.499998</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 12.399998</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 12.299997</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 12.199997</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 12.099997</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 11.999996</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 11.899996</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 11.799995</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 11.699995</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 11.599995</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 11.499994</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 11.399994</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 11.299994</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 11.199993</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 11.099993</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 10.999992</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 10.899992</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 10.799992</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 10.699991</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 10.599991</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 10.499990</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 10.399990</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 10.299990</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 10.199989</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">i equals 10.099989</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">But works perfectly with (even starting from 100)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">double i;</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">for (i = 13; i >= 1; i -= .1){</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">printf("i equals %lf\n", i);</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Perl has a different way of representing float point numbers it seems so </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">look into a module that supports extra precision floats.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 7</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:42:56 -0600</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: "Chris Gloege" <<A HREF="mailto:thoth.serath@gmail.com">thoth.serath@gmail.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: [tclug-list] tcsa meeting</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: <A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> <<A HREF="mailto:7c055dc50801172042k29a25b8fnf7c682553af47f2e@mail.gmail.com">7c055dc50801172042k29a25b8fnf7c682553af47f2e@mail.gmail.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">wonderful meeting tonight. we (10 of us) went to fuddrucers restaurant</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">after. i was wondering about the website for learning c that the</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">sheetrocker was talking about.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">-------------- next part --------------</FONT>
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 8</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:46:56 -0600</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: "Leif Johnson" <<A HREF="mailto:leif.t.johnson@gmail.com">leif.t.johnson@gmail.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Perl decrement question</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: <A HREF="mailto:rhubarbpie@poetworld.net">rhubarbpie@poetworld.net</A>, tclug <<A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> <<A HREF="mailto:dbe795460801172146v58e3a3c7mfb964ae568dc5a37@mail.gmail.com">dbe795460801172146v58e3a3c7mfb964ae568dc5a37@mail.gmail.com</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">On Jan 17, 2008 9:33 PM, Elvedin Trnjanin <<A HREF="mailto:trnja001@umn.edu">trnja001@umn.edu</A>> wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> <A HREF="mailto:rhubarbpie@poetworld.net">rhubarbpie@poetworld.net</A> wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > I'm a Perl novice and hope this is a proper channel for a simple</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > question. Why does the following decrement incorrectly below 10? It</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > works with $i -- or $i -= .5. This is part of a larger script and I've</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> > made a workaround, but I'm still curious.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> ></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> Start $i from 100 and you'll notice that it happens for numbers greater</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> than 10. The reason for this is that certain numbers cannot be</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> represented accurately with the floating point representation your</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> computer architecture and data type use. IEEE 754 is a standard that</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> addresses this so try reading up on that if you're really interested.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> Any who, this is even worse in C with a float.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">1/10 is a repeating binary number, so no matter how many bits you have</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">in a floating point representation it will be wrong. So the double</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">version does not work perfectly, just less imperfectly than the</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">floating point version.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">leif</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 9</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:02:25 -0600</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: Munir Nassar <<A HREF="mailto:tclug@beitsahour.net">tclug@beitsahour.net</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: TCLUG List <<A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID: <<A HREF="mailto:479040F1.9050404@beitsahour.net">479040F1.9050404@beitsahour.net</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Aaron Miller wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> With a name like "Zahid" I'm not too surprised by the type ;)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Please enlighten me, me dumb foriner, me no englisch, me fall ov truk, </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">hurt head!</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 10</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:01:56 -0600 (CST)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: Mike Miller <<A HREF="mailto:mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu">mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Perl decrement question</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: <A HREF="mailto:rhubarbpie@poetworld.net">rhubarbpie@poetworld.net</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Cc: <A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID: <<A HREF="mailto:Pine.GSO.4.60.0801172128160.11928@taxa.epi.umn.edu">Pine.GSO.4.60.0801172128160.11928@taxa.epi.umn.edu</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 <A HREF="mailto:rhubarbpie@poetworld.net">rhubarbpie@poetworld.net</A> wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> I'm a Perl novice and hope this is a proper channel for a simple </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> question. Why does the following decrement incorrectly below 10? It </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> works with $i -- or $i -= .5. This is part of a larger script and I've </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> made a workaround, but I'm still curious.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">It has to do with the interpretation of ".1". A computer will represent </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">the number in binary digits. Unfortunately for you, .1, unlike .5, </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">doesn't have a short representation in binary digits. The value .1 equals </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">1/10 which equals 1/2 ? 1/5. In binary, multiplying by 1/2 is like </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">multiplying by 1/10 in decimal, it just shifts everything one digit to the </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">right of the point (is it still called a "decimal point" when it's in base </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">2?). So what is 1/5 in binary?</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">0.001100110011001100110011...</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Which means that .1 is this:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">0.0001100110011001100110011...</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">If we store 32 binary digits, we round it off like so:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">0.00011001100110011001100110011001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">which means we are off by 1.001100110011 ? 2^-33 (where the first part of </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">that is a binary representation), or in base 10: 1.2 ? 2^-33 =</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">1.39698386192322... ? 10^-10, so you'd expect to see errors in the 10th </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">digit.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">As someone else pointed out, different software and different </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">architectures will use different numbers of binary digits to represent </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">numbers so you will have different amounts of error in different </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">situations.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Mike</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> use Math::Complex;</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> for ($i = 13; $i >= 1; $i -= .1) {</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> print"$i\n";</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> }</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 11</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 10.9</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 10.8</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 10.7</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 10.6</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 10.5</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 10.4</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 10.3</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 10.2</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 10.1</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 10</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 9.90000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 9.80000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 9.70000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 9.60000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 9.50000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 9.40000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 9.30000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 9.20000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 9.10000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> 9.00000000000001</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> _______________________________________________</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> <A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> <A HREF="http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list">http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message: 11</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:30:11 -0600 (CST)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">From: Mike Miller <<A HREF="mailto:mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu">mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Subject: Re: [tclug-list] don't order from Aztekcomputers</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">To: Munir Nassar <<A HREF="mailto:tclug@beitsahour.net">tclug@beitsahour.net</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Cc: TCLUG List <<A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Message-ID: <<A HREF="mailto:Pine.GSO.4.60.0801180023280.11928@taxa.epi.umn.edu">Pine.GSO.4.60.0801180023280.11928@taxa.epi.umn.edu</A>></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Munir Nassar wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> Aaron Miller wrote:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">>> With a name like "Zahid" I'm not too surprised by the type ;)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> Please enlighten me, me dumb foriner, me no englisch, me fall ov truk, </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> hurt head!</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">I'm definitely "achieving" this one. Here's my all-time favorite bit of </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">"Engrish" (stolen from engrish.com):</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/pics/humor/dangerengrish.jpg">http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/pics/humor/dangerengrish.jpg</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">There are no "types" in it, but lots of funny phrases. How would you like </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">to see that label on your kid's toy? You've been warned!</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Mike</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">------------------------------</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">_______________________________________________</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="mailto:tclug-list@mn-linux.org">tclug-list@mn-linux.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list">http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 37, Issue 28</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">******************************************</FONT>
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