From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Dec 1 09:08:34 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about groups Message-ID: <16331.22898.809967.93801@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I have been providing CVS service for a group of people, and have been having problem with directories and files being created with the wrong group (so this problem arises in CVS, but it's a more general problem). For example, I have a user, juser, who is in two groups: juser (personal group) and project. When he's adding files to the repository, I'd like juser to have them be created with group ownership project, instead of group ownership juser. I've just realized that I know how protections are defaulted (with umask), but I've no idea how group ownership is defaulted, and it seems like such a basic question, I don't know how to find it in a man page.... Thanks! R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Mon Dec 1 09:29:15 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about groups In-Reply-To: <16331.22898.809967.93801@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16331.22898.809967.93801@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20031201152915.GA16075@refried.org> On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 09:08:34AM -0600, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > I have been providing CVS service for a group of people, and have been > having problem with directories and files being created with the wrong > group (so this problem arises in CVS, but it's a more general > problem). I would suggest going straight to using ACLs. Ext2/3 and XFS support ACLs. I'm not sure about JFS or ReiserFS. They will take the pain out of managing groups of people. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Mon Dec 1 10:13:35 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Meeting speaker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031201161335.GB1173@fandre.com> I still haven't found a speaker or a topic. Is anyone willing to talk about any of the topics below? Or anything else? I'd like to send out a meeting announcement today or tomorrow. -- Clay On Mon, 24 Nov 2003, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Things I'd like to hear about: > > 1) Clustering creation and management software. > 2) User Mode Linux. > 3) Creating RPM, Debian, and Slack packages from > source, and tips on making source "packagable". > 4) Game and Educational programming for kids. > > Can anybody speak about any of these things with > authority? > > >>> Clay Fandre 11/24/03 03:46PM >>> > So it's about that time again to start thinking about a meeting > topic. Anyone have any suggestions? Anyone want to volunteer to > present something? > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Mon Dec 1 10:48:16 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Portable MP3/Ogg player Message-ID: <20031201164816.GF1173@fandre.com> Anyone have the Neuros 128? I'm thinking about getting one since they are only $99 now and can expand with the HD pack. They are suppose to be offering Linux support soon too. Opinions? How about any other MP3/Ogg player? I'd like one without a hard-drive since I do a lot of running I didn't think a HD would be the best bet. I know iRiver has some non-HD models but they don't support Ogg. I'd like something under $150, and that I can use with Linux. -- Clay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bfriedman at exstream.com Mon Dec 1 11:14:49 2003 From: bfriedman at exstream.com (Brent Friedman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ballpark number of expected http errors across an open network? Message-ID: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D85776B0@rye.exstream.com> I am trying to find a baseline number for some testing that I am doing, and after googling without success, I thought I might see if anyone has run into this before. I am trying to put together a testing framework for an intranet application. I know that I will encounter some dropped http connections when doing external testing, but I have never had to provide an 'expected' number of errors for something like this. I took a guess at a %.01 error rate (1 failed connection per 10,000 requests), but that is just pulling a number out of my ..., er, hat. Anyone know of a better benchmark on failed http connections across an intranet/extranet/internet? Thanks, Brent Friedman _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Dec 1 11:45:28 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ballpark number of expected http errors across an open network? In-Reply-To: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D85776B0@rye.exstream.com> References: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D85776B0@rye.exstream.com> Message-ID: <1070300726.20834.87.camel@unixws1> If I just look at the raw line count in each file for one random domain, I have 11,825 accesses and 4172 errors. Most of the errors are 404's, so if I take those out I have 172 errors, 1.5%. Taking another domain from another server, I have: 1,060,681 accesses and 110,365 errors. Without 404's I have 91,458 errors (8.6%) Hope this helps On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 11:14, Brent Friedman wrote: > I am trying to find a baseline number for some testing that I am doing, and after googling without success, I thought I might see if anyone has run into this before. > > I am trying to put together a testing framework for an intranet application. I know that I will encounter some dropped http connections when doing external testing, but I have never had to provide an 'expected' number of errors for something like this. > > I took a guess at a %.01 error rate (1 failed connection per 10,000 requests), but that is just pulling a number out of my ..., er, hat. > > Anyone know of a better benchmark on failed http connections across an intranet/extranet/internet? > > Thanks, > > Brent Friedman > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rclark at lakesplus.com Mon Dec 1 12:16:54 2003 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Exploding CDROM Message-ID: <014901c3b837$7f8b6620$0201a8c0@office> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel_cd at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 12:31:05 2003 From: joel_cd at yahoo.com (Joel Dick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: <014901c3b837$7f8b6620$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: <20031201183105.23537.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com> hmm... time to start wearing safety googles at the computer? Or put the computer in a safe location ;) I've heard of the posbility of this happening with the high speed CD ROM drives these days, usually if a Disc has a crack in it or other signs of wear, although until today I had never heard of it actually happening. Least I'm not the only one with computer problems this week. I got in to work this morning, one computer's hard drive decided to up and die, no warning signs whatsoever. Then there's my home computer with a 120 gig hard drive sounding like it wants to die, but luckily hasn't yet, need to get my data backed up ASAP. Ia anyone else running into more problems than usual lately? Just curious. -Joel --- Randy Clarksean wrote: > Had a very interesting experience this past week. My son and wife were > using the computer. All of a sudden the CDROM apparently shatters and > flies out of the CDROM drive (door closed of course). It knocks the > CDROM door off (10-15 ft away and throws small pieces of CDROM across > the room as well. One did hit my son in the face and surprised him, > luckily no one was seriously hurt (nothing in the eyes, etc.). > > I have never heard of this before and would not have believed it had I > not been there myself. Just an FYI. > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Mon Dec 1 12:27:37 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about groups In-Reply-To: <16331.22898.809967.93801@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16331.22898.809967.93801@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1070303256.13993.19.camel@lotsa> On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 09:08, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > I have been providing CVS service for a group of people, and have been > having problem with directories and files being created with the wrong > group (so this problem arises in CVS, but it's a more general > problem). For example, I have a user, juser, who is in two groups: > juser (personal group) and project. When he's adding files to the > repository, I'd like juser to have them be created with group > ownership project, instead of group ownership juser. I've just > realized that I know how protections are defaulted (with umask), but > I've no idea how group ownership is defaulted, and it seems like such > a basic question, I don't know how to find it in a man page.... > I'v had problems with this also. It's not a basic question, at least it wasn't for me :) Look into setting the "s" flag for the group permissions of your cvsroot directory and your project root dir. so your project directory within cvsroot will look like this . drwxrwsr-x 11 root prog 4096 Nov 30 20:00 project ^ ^^^^ here users belong to this group this causes the permissions to be set on execution to that of the group which owns the directory. You still have to be a member of the group I believe. I'm a little hazy on the specifics of how this works but it does. It will set the group ownership of files and dirs created in that dir to that of the group. there is a little info in 'info chmod'. - tom > Thanks! > R > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Mon Dec 1 12:34:48 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: <014901c3b837$7f8b6620$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 1 12:57:53 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: <014901c3b837$7f8b6620$0201a8c0@office> References: <014901c3b837$7f8b6620$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: <3FCB8F31.5020308@visi.com> They spin at a very high RPM, I wonder if it was a defect in the CD or in the Drive or a combination of the 2. Was it a home burned or was it an OEM? Sounds scarry what ever it was, glad no one was seriously hurt. Sam. Randy Clarksean wrote: > Had a very interesting experience this past week. My son and wife > were using the computer. All of a sudden the CDROM apparently > shatters and flies out of the CDROM drive (door closed of course). It > knocks the CDROM door off (10-15 ft away and throws small pieces of > CDROM across the room as well. One did hit my son in the face and > surprised him, luckily no one was seriously hurt (nothing in the eyes, > etc.). > > I have never heard of this before and would not have believed it had I > not been there myself. Just an FYI. > > Randy > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Mon Dec 1 13:06:36 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Matt Murphy wrote: > The "mythbusters" show on discovery channel investigated this one, the > myth that 52x+ CD-ROM drives can shatter cheap/damaged discs, and they found > it to definitely be true. Careful what you stick in those drives! Ah, that'd explain the warning label on the 52x's I've bought, then. Never thought of that danger. *eyes cdrom drive cautiously* Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Dec 1 13:43:25 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1070307802.20834.106.camel@unixws1> Yes, it's very true. I'm no physics geek, but at 52x the angular velocity (?) is great enough to tear CD's apart. I forget the numbers, but basically you've got some ridiculous amount of force at the outer edge of the disc, basically trying to pull it apart. At 52x (or even 48x) with a flimsy disc (low quality, weak, defective, or broken somehow), this is likely to happen. Congratulations though, I've never actually seen it done! On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 12:34, Matt Murphy wrote: > > The "mythbusters" show on discovery channel investigated this one, > the myth that 52x+ CD-ROM drives can shatter cheap/damaged discs, and > they found it to definitely be true. Careful what you stick in those > drives! > > Matt > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Randy > Clarksean > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 12:17 PM > To: tclug > Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Exploding CDROM > > > Had a very interesting experience this past week. My son and > wife were using the computer. All of a sudden the CDROM > apparently shatters and flies out of the CDROM drive (door > closed of course). It knocks the CDROM door off (10-15 ft > away and throws small pieces of CDROM across the room as > well. One did hit my son in the face and surprised him, > luckily no one was seriously hurt (nothing in the eyes, etc.). > > I have never heard of this before and would not have believed > it had I not been there myself. Just an FYI. > > Randy > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Dec 1 14:51:48 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: <1070307802.20834.106.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Adam Maloney wrote: > Yes, it's very true. I'm no physics geek, but at 52x the angular > velocity (?) is great enough to tear CD's apart. I'm, no expert either, but I thought the limit was around 56x or 58x. Maybe at 58x the disc is guaranteed to explode, and at 52x it's possible. Guess I now have a good reason to stop buying cheap CD-Rs. I also congratulate the poster on accomplishing this, please post pictures if available! :-) -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Mon Dec 1 16:13:33 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Earlier Debian box hack caused by exploit in kernel Message-ID: <3FCBBD0D.3010002@druswanderings.net> Just got this from the Deb Security list. I'm off to patch/upgrade. ;-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Debian Security Advisory DSA-403-1 security@debian.org http://www.debian.org/security/ Wichert Akkerman December 1, 2003 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Package : kernel-image-2.4.18-1-alpha, kernel-image-2.4.18-1-i386, kernel-source-2.4.18 Vulnerability : userland can access full kernel memory Problem type : local Debian-specific: no CVE Id(s) : CAN-2003-0961 Recently multiple servers of the Debian project were compromised using a Debian developers account and an unknown root exploit. Forensics revealed a burneye encrypted exploit. Robert van der Meulen managed to decrypt the binary which revealed a kernel exploit. Study of the exploit by the RedHat and SuSE kernel and security teams quickly revealed that the exploit used an integer overflow in the brk system call. Using this bug it is possible for a userland program to trick the kernel into giving access to the full kernel address space. This problem was found in September by Andrew Morton, but unfortunately that was too late for the 2.4.22 kernel release. This bug has been fixed in kernel version 2.4.23 for the 2.4 tree and 2.6.0-test6 kernel tree. For Debian it has been fixed in version 2.4.18-12 of the kernel source packages, version 2.4.18-14 of the i386 kernel images and version 2.4.18-11 of the alpha kernel images. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Mon Dec 1 16:19:23 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: Adam Maloney > Yes, it's very true. I'm no physics geek, but at 52x the angular > velocity (?) is great enough to tear CD's apart. I forget the numbers, > but basically you've got some ridiculous amount of force at the outer > edge of the disc, basically trying to pull it apart. At 52x (or even > 48x) with a flimsy disc (low quality, weak, defective, or broken > somehow), this is likely to happen. You may not be, but there should be quite a few on the list. Let's do some math! Audio CD's start at 500 RPM and slow down to 200 RPM. That's 1x. The fast drives go CAV at one speed, and are fastest at the end of a disc, so let's go with 52x200 or 10,400 RPM. The speed of the edge of a disc v=wr which is the rotational speed times the radius, or 10400RPM * 6cm or 62400cm/min or (uhm... times 1min/60s times 1m/100cm) 10.4m/s (!) or 62400 cm/min (times 60min/1hr times 1mi/160934cm) = 23.26 mph. CD's have a mass of about 20g. A 1g chunk at 10.4m/s should have 1/2 * m * v * v energy or about 1/20 (need help with unit here...) joule? Or the same energy as a kilogram dropped from a height of 5.5mm. (U = mgh) Still, I wouldn't want it headed for MY eye. Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 1 16:55:43 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lost Message-ID: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com> So I "ifconfig" and it doesn't work, I get "ifconfig: not found" I used su to change to super user, entered the password, same result When I do "man ifconfig" the manual page is there. Red Hat 8.0 is the OS right from the CD So I logout as my account (BTW anyone know how to force text mode start up in RH 8?) [Not everything needs to be graphical] I login as root I open a console and "ifconfig" works fine. Just a bug? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Mon Dec 1 16:51:02 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lost In-Reply-To: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com> Message-ID: Nope. Try /sbin/ifconfig Sbin isn't in your path unless you are root. Regards, Chris Smith API Information Systems Group www.apitools.net 651-604-2758 -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Sam MacDonald Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 4:56 PM To: TC LUG Subject: [TCLUG] Lost So I "ifconfig" and it doesn't work, I get "ifconfig: not found" I used su to change to super user, entered the password, same result When I do "man ifconfig" the manual page is there. Red Hat 8.0 is the OS right from the CD So I logout as my account (BTW anyone know how to force text mode start up in RH 8?) [Not everything needs to be graphical] I login as root I open a console and "ifconfig" works fine. Just a bug? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 1 17:01:04 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FCBC830.5040206@visi.com> Good, I'm not a rocket scientist. Did Chris just say it's spinning at 23.26 miles per hour? Now the trick is to get a CD in to space using an off the shelf CD drive ;-) Sam. Chris Schumann wrote: >>From: Adam Maloney >> >> > > > >>Yes, it's very true. I'm no physics geek, but at 52x the angular >>velocity (?) is great enough to tear CD's apart. I forget the numbers, >>but basically you've got some ridiculous amount of force at the outer >>edge of the disc, basically trying to pull it apart. At 52x (or even >>48x) with a flimsy disc (low quality, weak, defective, or broken >>somehow), this is likely to happen. >> >> > >You may not be, but there should be quite a few on the list. Let's do >some math! > >Audio CD's start at 500 RPM and slow down to 200 RPM. That's 1x. >The fast drives go CAV at one speed, and are fastest at the end of >a disc, so let's go with 52x200 or 10,400 RPM. > >The speed of the edge of a disc v=wr which is the rotational >speed times the radius, or 10400RPM * 6cm or 62400cm/min or >(uhm... times 1min/60s times 1m/100cm) 10.4m/s (!) or >62400 cm/min (times 60min/1hr times 1mi/160934cm) = 23.26 mph. > >CD's have a mass of about 20g. A 1g chunk at 10.4m/s should >have 1/2 * m * v * v energy or about 1/20 (need help with unit >here...) joule? Or the same energy as a kilogram dropped from >a height of 5.5mm. (U = mgh) > >Still, I wouldn't want it headed for MY eye. > >Chris > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Mon Dec 1 16:59:51 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lost In-Reply-To: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 04:55:43PM -0600 References: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031201165951.A22639@real-time.com> On 12/01 04:55 , Sam MacDonald wrote: > So I "ifconfig" and it doesn't work, I get "ifconfig: not found" > > I used su to change to super user, entered the password, same result check your $PATH when you use 'su' rather than 'su -'; /sbin isn't added to your path if you don't do a full login shell. (and you haven't modified your default path to include it). Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Mon Dec 1 16:57:19 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lost In-Reply-To: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com> References: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FCBC74F.5000907@andersonfam.org> I'm not sure about your ifconfig problem, but it could be that your PATH environment variable got stomped on by some program. When you logged out/in, your PATH was reloaded from /etc/profile or whatever. And to answer you question about graphical login, look in the file /etc/inittab. There should be a line in there that looks like: id:3:initdefault: change it to: id:5:initdefault: And reboot. -Erik Sam MacDonald wrote: > So I "ifconfig" and it doesn't work, I get "ifconfig: not found" > > I used su to change to super user, entered the password, same result > > When I do "man ifconfig" the manual page is there. > > Red Hat 8.0 is the OS right from the CD > > So I logout as my account > > (BTW anyone know how to force text mode start up in RH 8?) > [Not everything needs to be graphical] > > I login as root > > I open a console and "ifconfig" works fine. > > Just a bug? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Dec 1 17:46:35 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031201174635.A13943@baker.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 04:19:23PM -0600, Chris Schumann wrote: > You may not be, but there should be quite a few on the list. Let's do > some math! Alas, I must pick some nits. > Audio CD's start at 500 RPM and slow down to 200 RPM. That's 1x. > The fast drives go CAV at one speed, and are fastest at the end of > a disc, so let's go with 52x200 or 10,400 RPM. Hopefully your numbers are right here - I didn't check. > The speed of the edge of a disc v=wr which is the rotational > speed times the radius, or 10400RPM * 6cm or 62400cm/min or > (uhm... times 1min/60s times 1m/100cm) 10.4m/s (!) or > 62400 cm/min (times 60min/1hr times 1mi/160934cm) = 23.26 mph. w in v=wr is angular frequency, which is radians per second. "Regular" frequency is w/(2 pi). Or v = 2 pi f r. So the actual speed at the edge is 392000 cm/min = 65.3 m/s = 146 mph. > CD's have a mass of about 20g. A 1g chunk at 10.4m/s should > have 1/2 * m * v * v energy or about 1/20 (need help with unit > here...) joule? Or the same energy as a kilogram dropped from > a height of 5.5mm. (U = mgh) A 1 gram chunk at 65.3 m/s would have 2.1 joules of energy. While the disk is spinning, its kinetic energy = 1/2 I w^2. I, the moment of inertia is 1/2 m r^2. So, KE_rot = 1/2 (1/2 m r^2) (v/r)^2 = 1/4 m v^2 = 16 J , with a CD mass of 15 grams. For comparison, this is the same as the kinetic energy of a golf ball going 59 mph (26 m/s) - which would be slow for a golf ball. Sorry for the abundance of details. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Mon Dec 1 17:51:20 2003 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lost In-Reply-To: <3FCBC74F.5000907@andersonfam.org> (message from Erik Anderson on Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:57:19 -0600) References: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com> <3FCBC74F.5000907@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <200312012351.hB1NpKY20199@ecstasy.winternet.com> >Sam MacDonald wrote: >> (BTW anyone know how to force text mode start up in RH 8?) >> [Not everything needs to be graphical] Erik Anderson wrote: >And to answer you question about graphical login, look in the file >/etc/inittab. There should be a line in there that looks like: >id:3:initdefault: >change it to: >id:5:initdefault: Exactly the opposite is probably needed as init level 5 is usually a graphical login and init level 3 is usually a (multiuser) console login. Another, perhaps more flexible way, to do this is pass the init level as an argument to the kernel: For lilo, simply duplicate a boot entry in /etc/lilo.conf and add the line append = "3" to it. For grub, simply duplicate a boot entry in /boot/grub/grub.conf and add 3 to the end of the kernel command. For occasional use, grub at boot time can be used to edit a boot entry. Simply edit an entry (e command), highlight the kernel command and edit it by appending 3 to it and finally boot it (b command). However, these steps would have to be repeated each time booting to init level 3 is desired. For those of us who must do things the really hard way, the grub command line allows us to enter the root, kernel and optional initrd commands by hand. Auto-completion is available for the less hardy folks. :) Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Mon Dec 1 18:12:43 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: Jim Crumley > Alas, I must pick some nits. By all means. > > Audio CD's start at 500 RPM and slow down to 200 RPM. That's 1x. > > The fast drives go CAV at one speed, and are fastest at the end of > > a disc, so let's go with 52x200 or 10,400 RPM. > > Hopefully your numbers are right here - I didn't check. That one I'm very sure of. Then again, it is a reported speed, and is probably rounded for marketing literature. Looking for citations, found this: http://www.powerlabs.org/cdexplode.htm in which a guy mounts a CD onto a Dremel tool for 35000 RPM fun. (With a picture!) Here we go: http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/LawrenceFung.shtml > > The speed of the edge of a disc v=wr which is the rotational > > speed times the radius, or 10400RPM * 6cm or 62400cm/min or > > (uhm... times 1min/60s times 1m/100cm) 10.4m/s (!) or > > 62400 cm/min (times 60min/1hr times 1mi/160934cm) = 23.26 mph. > > w in v=wr is angular frequency, which is radians per second. > "Regular" frequency is w/(2 pi). Or v = 2 pi f r. So the actual > speed at the edge is 392000 cm/min = 65.3 m/s = 146 mph. You are correct, of course. Pesky angular units! The second site I referenced confirms your calculation. > > CD's have a mass of about 20g. A 1g chunk at 10.4m/s should > > have 1/2 * m * v * v energy or about 1/20 (need help with unit > > here...) joule? Or the same energy as a kilogram dropped from > > a height of 5.5mm. (U = mgh) > > A 1 gram chunk at 65.3 m/s would have 2.1 joules of energy. > While the disk is spinning, its kinetic energy = 1/2 I w^2. I, > the moment of inertia is 1/2 m r^2. So, > KE_rot = 1/2 (1/2 m r^2) (v/r)^2 = 1/4 m v^2 = 16 J , with > a CD mass of 15 grams. For comparison, this is the same as the > kinetic energy of a golf ball going 59 mph (26 m/s) - which would > be slow for a golf ball. And that's all probably correct too, but as soon as the 1g chunk breaks free, it's just a chunk going in a straight line (for an instant) at 146mph. I used the linear momentum (1/2 m v^2) equal to potential of mgh, but using the new numbers, the drop height would be 217mm or 8.6 inches. Thanks for the correction, Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tsinks at isd.net Mon Dec 1 18:23:41 2003 From: tsinks at isd.net (Tim Sinks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lost References: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com> <20031201165951.A22639@real-time.com> Message-ID: <013901c3b86a$91b358c0$0300000a@net.tsinks> Be advised that there are certain verbs/commands you don't and can't do from your own login or su'd. Unix/Linux and the systems are set up with certain commands that should only be made while in root. These are usually configuration, hardware, low down and dirty system functions, and key kernel process commands. If you make the command permissions and paths so another user can do them, they can have a dibilitating effect when you least expect or want. Believe me! I had a disk that went away and we determined, as best we could, it had been set up and extended under an su. "So, be careful out there." "You betcha, Sarge." Keep looking up, Tim Sinks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Lost > On 12/01 04:55 , Sam MacDonald wrote: > > So I "ifconfig" and it doesn't work, I get "ifconfig: not found" > > > > I used su to change to super user, entered the password, same result > > check your $PATH when you use 'su' rather than 'su -'; /sbin isn't added to > your path if you don't do a full login shell. (and you haven't modified your > default path to include it). > > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Systems Administrator > Real-Time Enterprises > www.real-time.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Mon Dec 1 18:32:51 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about groups In-Reply-To: <1070303256.13993.19.camel@lotsa> References: <16331.22898.809967.93801@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1070303256.13993.19.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <1070325171.19142.0.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Mon Dec 1 18:43:06 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1070325786.19142.6.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Mon Dec 1 19:44:35 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help installing Request Tracker (RT) Digest-MD5 Message-ID: Hi all, I'm trying to install request tracker (bestpractical.com/rt) and am having serious problems getting all the perl modules to load and install. Here's what I think is going on. It seems to do OK until it needs Digest-MD5-2.31. It goes and gets it, unpacks it, starts to build, and Makefile.PL makes a Makefile that is garbage. Probably because of some lies I told it while running -MCPAN the first time. I would sincerely appreciate some help on this one. Here is the output: [root@alpha rt-3-0-7_01]# perl sbin/rt-test-dependencies --with-mysql --with-fastcgi --install perl: 5.8.0...found MASON dependencies: Params::Validate 0.02...found Cache::Cache ...found Exception::Class ...found HTML::Mason 1.16...found MLDBM ...found Errno ...found FreezeThaw ...found Digest::MD5 2.27...MISSING Digest::MD5 version 2.27 required--this is only version 2.20 at (eval 32) line 2. CPAN: Storable loaded ok Going to read /root/.cpan/Metadata Database was generated on Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:50:59 GMT Running install for module Digest::MD5 Running make for G/GA/GAAS/Digest-MD5-2.31.tar.gz CPAN: Compress::Zlib loaded ok Checksum for /root/.cpan/sources/authors/id/G/GA/GAAS/Digest-MD5-2.31.tar.gz ok Scanning cache /root/.cpan/build for sizes Digest-MD5-2.31/ Digest-MD5-2.31/t/ Digest-MD5-2.31/t/md5-aaa.t Digest-MD5-2.31/t/clone.t Digest-MD5-2.31/t/badfile.t Digest-MD5-2.31/t/utf8.t Digest-MD5-2.31/t/bits.t Digest-MD5-2.31/t/align.t Digest-MD5-2.31/t/files.t Digest-MD5-2.31/README Digest-MD5-2.31/MANIFEST Digest-MD5-2.31/hints/ Digest-MD5-2.31/hints/MacOS.pl Digest-MD5-2.31/hints/irix_6.pl Digest-MD5-2.31/hints/dec_osf.pl Digest-MD5-2.31/Changes Digest-MD5-2.31/Makefile.PL Digest-MD5-2.31/MD5.xs Digest-MD5-2.31/typemap Digest-MD5-2.31/MD5.pm Digest-MD5-2.31/rfc1321.txt Removing previously used /root/.cpan/build/Digest-MD5-2.31 CPAN.pm: Going to build G/GA/GAAS/Digest-MD5-2.31.tar.gz Testing alignment requirements for U32... no restrictions Checking if your kit is complete... Looks good Writing Makefile for Digest::MD5 Makefile:84: *** missing separator. Stop. /usr/bin/make -j3 -- NOT OK Running make test Can't test without successful make Running make install make had returned bad status, install seems impossible CGI::Cookie 1.20...found Storable 2.08...MISSING Storable version 2.08 required--this is only version 2.06 at (eval 42) line 2. Running install for module Storable Running make for A/AM/AMS/Storable-2.08.tar.gz Checksum for /root/.cpan/sources/authors/id/A/AM/AMS/Storable-2.08.tar.gz ok Storable-2.08/ ==== and here is a portion of the Makefile, starting at line 81 INSTALLBIN = /usr/bin' installhtml1dir='' installhtml3dir='' installman1 <=== line 84 INSTALLSITEBIN = /usr INSTALLVENDORBIN = /usr/bin' installvendorhtml1='' installvendorhtml3='' installvendorlib='/u Is there some environment variable not set? Is something missing from some perl configuration file? I've never used perl nor CPAN before, so pointers to documentation would be helpful, but it really has to be specific. Many thanks, Chris Schumann, Partner Third Wave Partnership, LLC Office 612-920-4364 722 W 66 St, PMB 302 Fax 612-677-3003 Minneapolis, MN 55423 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Mon Dec 1 20:04:09 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help installing Request Tracker (RT) Digest-MD5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031202020409.GA8667@mail.el-swifto.com> On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 07:44:35PM -0600, Chris Schumann wrote: > I'm trying to install request tracker (bestpractical.com/rt) and > am having serious problems getting all the perl modules to load > and install. > > Here's what I think is going on. It seems to do OK until it needs > Digest-MD5-2.31. It goes and gets it, unpacks it, starts to build, > and Makefile.PL makes a Makefile that is garbage. Probably because > of some lies I told it while running -MCPAN the first time. A couple of thoughts: 1. You can always install the Perl module "by hand"--no need to use CPAN. 2. The CPAN settings are modifiable. 'perldoc CPAN' if you want to do it from within the CPAN shell, or 'locate CPAN | grep Config' if you want to do it by hand. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Mon Dec 1 19:30:13 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1070328613.19142.34.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Dec 1 20:26:54 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about groups In-Reply-To: <1070325171.19142.0.camel@bigtime> References: <16331.22898.809967.93801@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1070303256.13993.19.camel@lotsa> <1070325171.19142.0.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <16331.63598.308855.509242@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Thanks to both Callum and Ry4an Brase for sending me pointers about this and turning me on to the setgid bit on directories. Cheers, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Dec 1 20:30:24 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help installing Request Tracker (RT) Digest-MD5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Chris Schumann wrote: > Here is the output: > [root@alpha rt-3-0-7_01]# perl from the look of that prompt i am guessing that you are using RedHat or one of its derivatives, if so then it is probably better to use RPM packages for CPAN stuff you can use cpanflute2 or cpan2rpm cpanflute2 is be part of the (i think!)perl-MakeRPM package cpan2rpm is a better tool IMHO but you need to google for it i am also working on a tool called cpan2spec that will create .src.rpms and spec files of the entire CPAN archive this is based on rpmpan but as it only works with the source it is more complete in some ways. -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Mon Dec 1 20:38:06 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help installing Request Tracker (RT) Digest-MD5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: "John J. Trammell" > 1. You can always install the Perl module "by hand"--no need to > use CPAN. Well, I'm not sure how to do that. If I use "perl -MCPAN -eshell" and then "install Digest::MD5" the same thing happens. > 2. The CPAN settings are modifiable. 'perldoc CPAN' if you want > to do it from within the CPAN shell, or 'locate CPAN | grep Config' > if you want to do it by hand. Thanks for the information, but the perldoc is huge, and I don't have time to learn everything. I found a few Config.pm and MyConfig.pm files, but nothing seemed to have a "installman1" or anything like it. Makefile.PL is used to build Makefile (it says "Writing Makefile for Digest::MD5") and then the make error appears. CPAN.pm: Going to build G/GA/GAAS/Digest-MD5-2.31.tar.gz Testing alignment requirements for U32... no restrictions Checking if your kit is complete... Looks good Writing Makefile for Digest::MD5 Makefile:84: *** missing separator. Stop. /usr/bin/make -j3 -- NOT OK Any other ideas or pointers where to look? Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From DeBeau at aol.com Mon Dec 1 21:36:07 2003 From: DeBeau at aol.com (DeBeau@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problems Configuring Printer Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Mon Dec 1 21:45:47 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (natecars@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lost In-Reply-To: <013901c3b86a$91b358c0$0300000a@net.tsinks> References: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com> <20031201165951.A22639@real-time.com> <013901c3b86a$91b358c0$0300000a@net.tsinks> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Tim Sinks wrote: > Be advised that there are certain verbs/commands you don't and can't do > from your own login or su'd. Unix/Linux and the systems are set up with > certain commands that should only be made while in root. Actually, the su command (if you use it to switch to the root user, which is the default if you don't specify a user to switch to) will give you full root access. If you do not specify a '-' after the su, it will keep your existing environmental variables intact - ie, it will not reset your path to include '/sbin', '/usr/sbin', etc. There isn't any difference in permissions between running a command in a su'd environment or running them in a 'real' root login - setting up your hard drive in a su'd environment would have the same result as doing it if you actually did it as root. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net Mon Dec 1 21:54:01 2003 From: Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net (Scott J Julian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lilo config Message-ID: <1070337241.5733.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey everyone, very new at linux here, tried mdk9.2 but kept having problems with modules failing at startup and other weird stuff, so I installed RH9, install went great, everything works, very nice distro. The one thing I DONT know how to do is edit lilo so i can boot into my win2k install, I have win2k on a 120gb wd1200jb and linux on a wd400bb. Any help would be appreciated. thanks alot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Dec 1 22:15:36 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problems Configuring Printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 DeBeau@aol.com wrote: > I am attempting to add a printer (Canon MultiPass C5500) in Red Hat 8.0. > First attempt resulted in a message reporting that KDE was unable to create a > printer probably because I did not have the required permission, etc. Since I > was logged on as "root," what more permission must I have? > > Next attempt after rebooting resulted in the message that KDE was unable to > load a valid driver. This in spite of the printer being listed in the choices > offered. > > Third attempt via KDE CUPS resulted in the second screen (Backend Selection) > being gray and unresponsive and the third screen requiring a response in the > second screen. > > Fourth attempt via Red Hat's Printer Configuration Tool resulted in what > appeared to be a success until I attempted to print a test page which never > materialized. Also, the printer does not appear as a choice when I attempt to print > in Open Office. hmm try using the cups configuration webpage. http://localhost:631/ and login as root add a printer this way and give it a try, if there are no drivers listed you can try one of the generic drivers or try to find the proper PPD online, I've have very good luck simply grabing the ppd from the MacOSX drivers (MacOSX uses CUPS) the ppd found on linux-printing.org require extra backends to be installed that are not part of RH iirc, so i usually steer clear of these PPDs. once you download the PPD just put it in /usr/share/cups/model and restart cups, now try to add/edit the printer and the new driver should be in the list -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon Dec 1 22:29:43 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ballpark number of expected http errors across an open network? In-Reply-To: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D85776B0@rye.exstream.com> References: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D85776B0@rye.exstream.com> Message-ID: "Brent Friedman" writes: > I am trying to find a baseline number for some testing that I am > doing, and after googling without success, I thought I might see if > anyone has run into this before. > > I am trying to put together a testing framework for an intranet > application. I know that I will encounter some dropped http > connections when doing external testing, but I have never had to > provide an 'expected' number of errors for something like this. Analog reports (last 35 days, across multiple domains): 5,091,910 successful requests 105,825 failed requests or 2% failure. It'll probably be lower for an intranet situation; among many other things, I have a lot of failures from search engines looking for robots.txt in domains that don't have one, and such, browsers looking for favicon.ico where it isn't, and so forth. And of course your local network connectivity will be more stable than my DSL and the rest of the internet -- I hope! -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Mon Dec 1 23:12:29 2003 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lilo config In-Reply-To: <1070337241.5733.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> (message from Scott J Julian on 01 Dec 2003 21:54:01 -0600) References: <1070337241.5733.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200312020512.hB25CT926084@ecstasy.winternet.com> Scott J Julian wrote: >Hey everyone, very new at linux here, tried mdk9.2 but kept having >problems with modules failing at startup and other weird stuff, so I >installed RH9, install went great, everything works, very nice distro. >The one thing I DONT know how to do is edit lilo so i can boot into my >win2k install, I have win2k on a 120gb wd1200jb and linux on a wd400bb. >Any help would be appreciated. thanks alot Try adding the following two lines to /etc/lilo.conf other = /dev/hda1 label = windows /dev/hda1 contains the Windows 2000 boot files. # lilo However, this obviously won't work if the Windows 2000 boot loader got clobbered. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Mon Dec 1 23:00:59 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lost References: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FCC1C8B.1070408@cleosci.com> Not a bug! ifconfig is a root command and is not "found" or accessible if you are a regular user. It's supposed to be that way! Try "su root" (no quotes), and enter root's password. You'll have better luck. Garrett Sam MacDonald wrote: > So I "ifconfig" and it doesn't work, I get "ifconfig: not found" > > I used su to change to super user, entered the password, same result > > When I do "man ifconfig" the manual page is there. > > Red Hat 8.0 is the OS right from the CD > > So I logout as my account > > (BTW anyone know how to force text mode start up in RH 8?) > [Not everything needs to be graphical] > > I login as root > > I open a console and "ifconfig" works fine. > > Just a bug? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Mon Dec 1 23:14:14 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ballpark number of expected http errors across an opennetwork? References: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D85776B0@rye.exstream.com> Message-ID: <001001c3b893$20c328b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Brent Friedman writes: > Anyone know of a better benchmark on failed http connections across > an intranet/extranet/internet? I'd say anything under 1% probably isn't worth looking at. Here are some stats from a couple of sites: 200 OK 82,673,457 206 Partial content 64,247 301 Document moved permanently 152,932 302 Document found elsewhere 3,394,597 304 Not modified since last retrieval 11,187,838 401 Authentication required 30 403 Access forbidden 3,210 404 Document not found 4,110 405 Method not allowed 670 416 Requested range not valid 145,875 500 Internal server error 309 501 Request type not supported 4 503 Service temporarily unavailable 41,601 200 OK 48,183,705 206 Partial content 121,786 301 Document moved permanently 1,315,195 302 Document found elsewhere 520,467 304 Not modified since last retrieval 5,085,950 401 Authentication required 3,677,987 403 Access forbidden 89 404 Document not found 194,404 405 Method not allowed 222 416 Requested range not valid 549 500 Internal server error 11 501 Request type not supported 16 503 Service temporarily unavailable 4 -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Mon Dec 1 22:58:20 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lilo config References: <1070337241.5733.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FCC1BEC.3060906@cleosci.com> You need to find the lilo.conf file on your system which is link-accessible through /etc/lilo.conf or /boot/lilo/lilo.conf. However, be sure you are booting with lilo and not grub. RH9 uses Grub by default which will be your boot loader unless you specifically changed it to lilo during install. Garrett Scott J Julian wrote: >Hey everyone, very new at linux here, tried mdk9.2 but kept having >problems with modules failing at startup and other weird stuff, so I >installed RH9, install went great, everything works, very nice distro. >The one thing I DONT know how to do is edit lilo so i can boot into my >win2k install, I have win2k on a 120gb wd1200jb and linux on a wd400bb. >Any help would be appreciated. thanks alot > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Mon Dec 1 23:25:34 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lost In-Reply-To: <200312012351.hB1NpKY20199@ecstasy.winternet.com> References: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com> <3FCBC74F.5000907@andersonfam.org> <200312012351.hB1NpKY20199@ecstasy.winternet.com> Message-ID: <3FCC224E.6090605@andersonfam.org> Ken Fuchs wrote: > Exactly the opposite is probably needed as init level 5 is usually a > graphical login and init level 3 is usually a (multiuser) console login. Doh! Right on...had a little brain fart there. Thanks for catching it! -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 1 23:53:08 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. Message-ID: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> Story of my life with Linux. I changed the permissions on the "www" directory so I could us my account (not root) to create web pages. I checked the name of the directory 3 times it was "www" in the /var directory Now I get a (remember I'm trouble shooting while I'm writing this message) Text based error message blue background, gray foreground like a curses program. "Server Authorization directory (Daemon/ServAuthdir) is set to /var/gdm but is not owned by user gdm and group gdm. Please correct the ownership of gdm configuration /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf and restart gdm" (I'm out of beer so now I'm really upset at this point, lucky I have some margarita in the fridge.) I look up "gdm", it's the "gnome display manager" imagine that! Folks I'm _not_ running gnome, I'm running KDE. So I said to my self "what is causing all this to be a pain?" The answer is "graphical login" that's right, gnome starts to get a graphical login going. http://www.5z.com/jirka/gdm.html says so. My question... Does Linux (the system) turn gnome off when it starts KDE, for us KDE users? I think the answer is "no" because it needs it after a logout to prompt for login. So KDE users get the honor of using both KDE and gnome at the same time? So because I made the mistake, missing the "last" dialog box that says something like "do you want to use a graphical login? with the default of "use a graphical login". I've been cursed with a graphical login. If you remember our brave (ignorant) Linux user is also trying to get rid of the graphical login. See the thread "Lost". In the middle I put something about changing from graphical to terminal login. So I change the "inittab" file so it uses a "3" for multiuser login instead of a "5" for X11 and restart the machine. (Thanks to all for the information) Now this does not solve the original problem, it did stop the message coming up every 2 -5 minutes. Even without X windows running the message would display. Did I say X windows would start KDE without any problem? Well it does, but the message would pop up as above until I change "inittab". OH did I say X windows is running about 20% faster now? OH I didn't, well it is running about 20% faster then when I had the graphical login. Best guess; 2 windows managers were running all the time. Did I say OO Writer starts then it did before the change to a terminal login. Well it starts in 1 minute 25 seconds instead of 1 minute 55 seconds. Yes, I timed it when I first installed it. Back to the original problem... So I set the permissions using the file manager but now the error is (it was before changeling to terminal login) "Server Authorization directory (Daemon/ServAuthdir) is set to /var/gdm but has the wrong permissions, it should have permissions of 0750. Please correct the permissions or the gdm configuration /etc/X11/gem/gdm.conf and restart gdm" For the life of me I can't remember what the "human" values of 0750 are. And I can't remember the command to set permissions. The permissions should be corrected just in case I want to torcher myself with a graphical login in some far off time. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Dec 2 00:04:36 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lilo config In-Reply-To: <1070337241.5733.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1070337241.5733.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FCC2B74.3050204@comcast.net> You could always play around with GRUB instead of LILO. Here's an editorial put out by IBM: http://auditodd.home.comcast.net/Opensource/linux-grub-bootloader.pdf Let's see, here's something on LILO: http://www.lugor.org/sig/newbie/lilo/ Scott J Julian wrote: > Hey everyone, very new at linux here, tried mdk9.2 but kept having > problems with modules failing at startup and other weird stuff, so I > installed RH9, install went great, everything works, very nice distro. > The one thing I DONT know how to do is edit lilo so i can boot into my > win2k install, I have win2k on a 120gb wd1200jb and linux on a wd400bb. > Any help would be appreciated. thanks alot > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Dec 1 23:54:28 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] easy to use web content manager In-Reply-To: <20031130231413.GB19367@warskunk.com> References: <006f01c3b778$ae233f90$0a00a8c0@DELL2> <20031130231413.GB19367@warskunk.com> Message-ID: <20031201235428.09a9ed58.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:14:13 -0600 Seg wrote: > Plone (www.plone.org) looks quite spiffy, has anyone had any experience > with it? It has an impressive enough list of users. Its Zope based. I > need a CMS that can be easily used by inexperienced users. I haven't had > a chance to set it up myself yet... I am impressed with Plone/Zope, but it's not the easist thing in the world to work with as a developer. I think from a user's perspective it's pretty decent, but if you need to extend it and you do not know python, it is a lot of work. YMMV Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net Tue Dec 2 00:04:00 2003 From: Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net (Scott J Julian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lilo config In-Reply-To: <3FCC1BEC.3060906@cleosci.com> References: <1070337241.5733.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FCC1BEC.3060906@cleosci.com> Message-ID: <1070345039.6421.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey Garrett, yes i did pick lilo as the boot loader during install, only becouse thats what I used in my last and first linux install, mdk9.2, in that one it auto detected windows and gave it as an option at boot. I found a page that gave me some info on editing /etc/lilo.conf. It said to log in with root access, i typed in su, got promted for my root pass, typed it in and i assume got root access, [root@localhost scott]# is what came up in the terminal window. When I typed in /etc/lilo.conf it said bash: /etc/lilo.conf: Permission denied, then goes back to [root@localhost scott]# I am very new to linux, less than 2 weeks, what do I do to access the lilo config???? _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Dec 2 00:07:21 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lost In-Reply-To: <3FCC1C8B.1070408@cleosci.com> References: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com> <3FCC1C8B.1070408@cleosci.com> Message-ID: <3FCC2C19.6020802@comcast.net> Uhm, my experience has always been to simply type "su" and then the root password at the password query. I've never typed "su root". I would assume that for most systems, "su" indicates root, as it's short for "super user" which is equivalent to root as far as I know. gkrueger wrote: > Not a bug! ifconfig is a root command and is not "found" or accessible > if you are a regular user. It's supposed to be that way! Try "su > root" (no quotes), and enter root's password. You'll have better luck. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Dec 2 00:12:21 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. In-Reply-To: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> References: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FCC2D45.1090001@comcast.net> If I remember correctly, your WWW directory and all subdirectories and files should be chmod 755 (rwxr-xr-x), I've changed ownership of the /var/www directory from root.root to joeblow.joeblow (or whatever your user name is). So let's see, the commands would be, as root: chmod -R 755 /var/www chown joeblow.joeblow /var/www List members...please correct me if I'm wrong. Sam MacDonald wrote: > Story of my life with Linux. > > I changed the permissions on the "www" directory so I could us my > account (not root) to create web pages. I checked the name of the > directory 3 times it was "www" in the /var directory > > Now I get a (remember I'm trouble shooting while I'm writing this message) > > Text based error message blue background, gray foreground like a curses > program. > > "Server Authorization directory (Daemon/ServAuthdir) is set to /var/gdm > but is not owned by user gdm and group gdm. Please correct the ownership > of gdm configuration /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf and restart gdm" > > (I'm out of beer so now I'm really upset at this point, lucky I have > some margarita in the fridge.) > > I look up "gdm", it's the "gnome display manager" imagine that! Folks > I'm _not_ running gnome, I'm running KDE. > > So I said to my self "what is causing all this to be a pain?" The > answer is "graphical login" that's right, gnome starts to get a > graphical login going. http://www.5z.com/jirka/gdm.html says so. > > My question... > > Does Linux (the system) turn gnome off when it starts KDE, for us KDE > users? > I think the answer is "no" because it needs it after a logout to > prompt for login. > So KDE users get the honor of using both KDE and gnome at the same > time? > > > So because I made the mistake, missing the "last" dialog box that says > something like "do you want to use a graphical login? with the default > of "use a graphical login". I've been cursed with a graphical login. > > If you remember our brave (ignorant) Linux user is also trying to get > rid of the graphical login. See the thread "Lost". In the middle I put > something about changing from graphical to terminal login. > > So I change the "inittab" file so it uses a "3" for multiuser login > instead of a "5" for X11 and restart the machine. > (Thanks to all for the information) > > Now this does not solve the original problem, it did stop the message > coming up every 2 -5 minutes. Even without X windows running the message > would display. Did I say X windows would start KDE without any > problem? Well it does, but the message would pop up as above until I > change "inittab". > OH did I say X windows is running about 20% faster now? OH I didn't, > well it is running about 20% faster then when I had the graphical > login. Best guess; 2 windows managers were running all the time. > > Did I say OO Writer starts then it did before the change to a terminal > login. Well it starts in 1 minute 25 seconds instead of 1 minute 55 > seconds. Yes, I timed it when I first installed it. > > > Back to the original problem... > > So I set the permissions using the file manager but now the error is (it > was before changeling to terminal login) > "Server Authorization directory (Daemon/ServAuthdir) is set to /var/gdm > but has the wrong permissions, it should have permissions of 0750. > Please correct the permissions or the gdm configuration > /etc/X11/gem/gdm.conf and restart gdm" > > For the life of me I can't remember what the "human" values of 0750 > are. And I can't remember the command to set permissions. The > permissions should be corrected just in case I want to torcher myself > with a graphical login in some far off time. > > Sam. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Tue Dec 2 00:09:07 2003 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lilo config In-Reply-To: <3FCC1BEC.3060906@cleosci.com> (message from gkrueger on Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:58:20 -0600) References: <1070337241.5733.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FCC1BEC.3060906@cleosci.com> Message-ID: <200312020609.hB2697k27167@ecstasy.winternet.com> >Scott J Julian wrote: >>Hey everyone, very new at linux here, tried mdk9.2 but kept having >>problems with modules failing at startup and other weird stuff, so I >>installed RH9, install went great, everything works, very nice distro. >>The one thing I DONT know how to do is edit lilo so i can boot into my >>win2k install, I have win2k on a 120gb wd1200jb and linux on a wd400bb. >>Any help would be appreciated. thanks alot Garrett Krueger wrote: >You need to find the lilo.conf file on your system which is >link-accessible through /etc/lilo.conf or /boot/lilo/lilo.conf. > However, be sure you are booting with lilo and not grub. RH9 uses Grub >by default which will be your boot loader unless you specifically >changed it to lilo during install. For grub, add the following lines to /boot/grub/grub.conf: title Microsoft Windows 2000 rootnoverify (hd0,0) chainloader +1 (hd0,0) = 1st partition of the first detected disk drive. (hd0,1) = 2nd partition of the first detected disk drive. (hd0,2) = 3rd partition of the first detected disk drive. (hd1,0) = 1st partition of the second detected disk drive. (hd1,1) = 2nd partition of the second detected disk drive. (hd1,2) = 3rd partition of the second detected disk drive. (hd2,0) = 1st partition of the third detected disk drive. (hd2,1) = 2nd partition of the third detected disk drive. (hd2,2) = 3rd partition of the third detected disk drive. ... The device numbering above applies to ATA, SCSI and possibly other boot-able drive types as well. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Dec 2 00:19:33 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lost In-Reply-To: <3FCC2A16.5080408@cleosci.com> References: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com> <3FCC1C8B.1070408@cleosci.com> <3FCC2C19.6020802@comcast.net> <3FCC2A16.5080408@cleosci.com> Message-ID: <3FCC2EF5.4050905@comcast.net> Yep, your right. I forgot about using "su" to be another user. Thanks for the correction. gkrueger wrote: > You can type "su", you can type "su - ", or you can type "su root" > (or, for that matter, you can type "su some_user_name" where > some_user_name is another root user). Any of these will work to log you > in as root though only "su -" will log you in as root and change your > working directory to root. > > su is also short for "substitute user". Let's say you have a user named > "bob." You can "su bob" and become "bob" for a little while exiting > back out when you're done with "bob." > > Garrett > > Todd Young wrote: > >> Uhm, my experience has always been to simply type "su" and then the >> root password at the password query. I've never typed "su root". I >> would assume that for most systems, "su" indicates root, as it's short >> for "super user" which is equivalent to root as far as I know. > > > > > > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Tue Dec 2 00:06:37 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lilo config References: <1070337241.5733.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FCC1BEC.3060906@cleosci.com> <1070345039.6421.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FCC2BED.1010008@cleosci.com> lilo.conf is a "text" file you would need to edit. Try typing: "cat /etc/lilo.conf" to quickly dump the contents of the file to your screen. For editing it though, you would want to use an editor. If you have installed pico on your system, I would suggest using that: "pico /etc/lilo.conf" If you don't have pico installed, try using an editor through the GUI, otherwise you're stuck using vi which is intimidating for the "unfamiliar." For vi, you would do: "vi /etc/lilo.conf" Once in there, you press the "i" key to enter "insert mode." You can then change whatever. When finished changing, do the following: press the "esc" key followed by the ":" character followed by the letters "wq" which will save and exit vi. Have fun! Garrett Scott J Julian wrote: > > > > >Hey Garrett, yes i did pick lilo as the boot loader during install, only becouse thats >what I used in my last and first linux install, mdk9.2, in that one it >auto detected windows and gave it as an option at boot. I found a page >that gave me some info on editing /etc/lilo.conf. It said to log in >with root access, i typed in su, got promted for my root pass, typed it >in and i assume got root access, [root@localhost scott]# is what came up >in the terminal window. When I typed in /etc/lilo.conf it said >bash: /etc/lilo.conf: Permission denied, then goes back to >[root@localhost scott]# I am very new to linux, less than 2 weeks, what >do I do to access the lilo config???? > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From foeclan at visi.com Tue Dec 2 00:23:49 2003 From: foeclan at visi.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. In-Reply-To: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> References: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FCC2FF5.2040708@visi.com> Sam MacDonald wrote: > For the life of me I can't remember what the "human" values of 0750 > are. And I can't remember the command to set permissions. The > permissions should be corrected just in case I want to torcher myself > with a graphical login in some far off time. > > Sam. That'd be 0 (sticky bit, you can pretty much ignore this one), 7 (read/write/execute for user), 5 (read and execute for group), and 0 (allow nothing for other users who aren't in your group). Use chmod to change them. It works out to: 4 Read 2 Write 1 Execute So, 4+2+1=7, for 'read/write/execute', or '4+1=5' for 'read/execute'. To change a file to 0750, you'd do 'chmod 0750 filename'. You can also do more readable versions: chmod u+r filename will add read permissions for users to filename. Also works with -r (remove read), or +w/-w to add or remove write, and +x/-x to add or remove execute. Use u for user, g for group, o for everyone else, and a for all three. Hope this is helpful. Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 2 07:35:58 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lost In-Reply-To: <3FCC2EF5.4050905@comcast.net> References: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com> <3FCC1C8B.1070408@cleosci.com> <3FCC2C19.6020802@comcast.net> <3FCC2A16.5080408@cleosci.com> <3FCC2EF5.4050905@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FCC953E.60706@visi.com> "su" Substitute User, that's a better name for the "su" (command) then "Super User". As "Super User" is therefore a misnomer, if it does not (by default) use the "root" account and can use any account.. In that case "Super User" i.e. "su" is not an account, it is a command tool. For example: if someone needed to get to their home directory for a file while another user is logged in. They could "su bob01" enter the password and have access to their files. Would that be a correct description? Even the man page lacks the "super user" name for the command and uses "Substitute User". Sam. Todd Young wrote: > Yep, your right. > I forgot about using "su" to be another user. > Thanks for the correction. > > gkrueger wrote: > >> You can type "su", you can type "su - ", or you can type "su root" >> (or, for that matter, you can type "su some_user_name" where >> some_user_name is another root user). Any of these will work to log >> you in as root though only "su -" will log you in as root and change >> your working directory to root. >> >> su is also short for "substitute user". Let's say you have a user >> named "bob." You can "su bob" and become "bob" for a little while >> exiting back out when you're done with "bob." >> >> Garrett >> >> Todd Young wrote: >> >>> Uhm, my experience has always been to simply type "su" and then the >>> root password at the password query. I've never typed "su root". I >>> would assume that for most systems, "su" indicates root, as it's >>> short for "super user" which is equivalent to root as far as I know. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 2 07:49:53 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lost In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FCC9881.80306@visi.com> That works perfect, all I wanted was the local IP address so I could put it in the host file on my M$ server and workstation. Sam. Christopher Smith wrote: >Nope. > >Try /sbin/ifconfig > >Sbin isn't in your path unless you are root. > > >Regards, > >Chris Smith >API Information Systems Group >www.apitools.net > >651-604-2758 > >-----Original Message----- >From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Sam MacDonald >Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 4:56 PM >To: TC LUG >Subject: [TCLUG] Lost > >So I "ifconfig" and it doesn't work, I get "ifconfig: not found" > >I used su to change to super user, entered the password, same result > >When I do "man ifconfig" the manual page is there. > >Red Hat 8.0 is the OS right from the CD > >So I logout as my account > >(BTW anyone know how to force text mode start up in RH 8?) > [Not everything needs to be graphical] > >I login as root > >I open a console and "ifconfig" works fine. > >Just a bug? > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Tue Dec 2 07:58:21 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: <20031201174635.A13943@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <20031201174635.A13943@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <1070373501.23411.9.camel@unixws1> Wow, some of this is actually coming back to me. It's been awhile since Physics-I at the U (I had that older German prof, goofy guy...Hans or something) We did some calculations in class once about a (solid-frame all-steel full-sized) Cadillac colliding head-on with a VW bug. I don't remember any of the numbers, but the Caddy driver ended up calling the ambulance/coroner for the VW driver, who would have been catapulted 60+ feet through the windshield (assuming no seatbelt, no windshield). Made me feel a lot better about driving my (solid-frame, all-steel, full-sized, '89 Crown Vic) Shaggin' Wagon. It would be interesting to see a comparison between a spinning CD and the spinning blade of a radial arm saw. Granted, the blade is much heavier than a CD, but I bet the CD spins a lot faster > A 1 gram chunk at 65.3 m/s would have 2.1 joules of energy. > While the disk is spinning, its kinetic energy = 1/2 I w^2. I, > the moment of inertia is 1/2 m r^2. So, > KE_rot = 1/2 (1/2 m r^2) (v/r)^2 = 1/4 m v^2 = 16 J , with > a CD mass of 15 grams. For comparison, this is the same as the > kinetic energy of a golf ball going 59 mph (26 m/s) - which would > be slow for a golf ball. > > Sorry for the abundance of details. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Tue Dec 2 08:05:39 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. In-Reply-To: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> References: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:53:08 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > For the life of me I can't remember what the "human" values of 0750 > are. Here's my stupid trick for figuring out chmod values - it could be way wrong or something but it works or me each of the numbers correspond to the permissions for either the owner, the group or the world (I rarely mess with the first number - the "sticky bit" so this applys to the last 3) for each grouping of users (owner, group, world) you can have rwx (read write execute) "on" or "off" so if you want them all "on" rwx => you'd have 111 if you want them all "off" --- => you'd have 000 if you wanted read and nothing else r-- => you'd have 100 now convert those binary looking numbers about to decimal: if you want them all "on" rwx => you'd have 111 ==> 7 if you want them all "off" --- => you'd have 000 ==> 0 if you wanted read and nothing else r-- => you'd have 100 ==> 4 if you wanted read and execute r-x => you'd have 101 ==> 5 Soooo ........ read, write , execute (rwx or 111 or 7) for owner, read and execute (r-x or 101 or 5) for the group and read only (r-- or 100 or 4) for worls would be: 754 long story short - think of each grouping as a binary number and then convert to decimal. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeffr at odeon.net Tue Dec 2 08:58:38 2003 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Small used server rack cabinets? In-Reply-To: <20031129133802.56465892.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: Axman on University used to have a bunch of 10U steel cabinet style 19" equipment racks. Jeff On Sat, 29 Nov 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > Anyone have suggestions for finding a small used cabinet for rack mount > 1U servers? I happen to have 4 now as I just got some Sunfire > hand-me-downs a Dell and a Cobalt. It doesn't have to be huge or fancy, > I just want to have one nice central place to control all the cabling. > > I'm looking on eBay and there are a good number of these, but I'm sure > shipping will be a nightmare. Is there a good place in the cities to > get this stuff, preferably cheap and/or used? Anyone want to sell one > to me? :) > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Tue Dec 2 09:22:45 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Small used server rack cabinets? In-Reply-To: References: <20031129133802.56465892.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <4640.199.199.150.143.1070378565.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> I've got just what you need. I have pending divorce, must clear out. If interested in a pic contact me off list. -mj > > Axman on University used to have a bunch of 10U steel cabinet style 19" equipment > racks. > > Jeff > > > On Sat, 29 Nov 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > >> Anyone have suggestions for finding a small used cabinet for rack mount 1U >> servers? I happen to have 4 now as I just got some Sunfire >> hand-me-downs a Dell and a Cobalt. It doesn't have to be huge or fancy, I just >> want to have one nice central place to control all the cabling. >> >> I'm looking on eBay and there are a good number of these, but I'm sure shipping >> will be a nightmare. Is there a good place in the cities to get this stuff, >> preferably cheap and/or used? Anyone want to sell one to me? :) >> >> Josh >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Dec 2 09:40:43 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help installing Request Tracker (RT) Digest-MD5 Message-ID: Chris, Google for Digest-MD5 and Perl and get to this page: http://search.cpan.org/~gaas/Digest-MD5-2.31/ where you can download the source for the Perl module: http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/G/GA/GAAS/Digest-MD5-2.31.tar.gz and then you can unpack it: $ mkdir -p ~/tmp/Digest-MD5 $ mv Digest-MD5-2.31.tar.gz ~/tmp/Digest-MD5/ $ cd ~/tmp/Digest-MD5/ $ tar xzvf Digest-MD5-2.31.tar.gz then proceed to compile and test the module: $ cd Digest-MD5-2.31/ $ perl Makefile.PL $ make $ make test and if everything goes well, install the module (as root): $ su $ make install $ exit That is the process, and if you do that you can address problems with the module easier that you can do so when using the CPAN module. The CPAN module makes everything fast and easy, and for that reason alone you should tread cautiously. ;-) Good luck, Troy >>> cschumann@twp-llc.com 12/01/03 08:38PM >>> > From: "John J. Trammell" > 1. You can always install the Perl module "by hand"--no need to > use CPAN. Well, I'm not sure how to do that. If I use "perl -MCPAN -eshell" and then "install Digest::MD5" the same thing happens. > 2. The CPAN settings are modifiable. 'perldoc CPAN' if you want > to do it from within the CPAN shell, or 'locate CPAN | grep Config' > if you want to do it by hand. Thanks for the information, but the perldoc is huge, and I don't have time to learn everything. I found a few Config.pm and MyConfig.pm files, but nothing seemed to have a "installman1" or anything like it. Makefile.PL is used to build Makefile (it says "Writing Makefile for Digest::MD5") and then the make error appears. CPAN.pm: Going to build G/GA/GAAS/Digest-MD5-2.31.tar.gz Testing alignment requirements for U32... no restrictions Checking if your kit is complete... Looks good Writing Makefile for Digest::MD5 Makefile:84: *** missing separator. Stop. /usr/bin/make -j3 -- NOT OK Any other ideas or pointers where to look? Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Tue Dec 2 09:50:02 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help installing Request Tracker (RT) Digest-MD5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031202155002.GA27895@mail.el-swifto.com> On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 08:38:06PM -0600, Chris Schumann wrote: > > From: "John J. Trammell" > > > 1. You can always install the Perl module "by hand"--no need to > > use CPAN. > Well, I'm not sure how to do that. If I use "perl -MCPAN -eshell" and then > "install Digest::MD5" the same thing happens. > The CPAN module isn't necessary to install other modules. If you can find the tarfile containing the Digest::MD5 module, you can unpack the tarfile, do a "perl Makefile.PL", then "make", "make test" and "make install" > > 2. The CPAN settings are modifiable. 'perldoc CPAN' if you want > > to do it from within the CPAN shell, or 'locate CPAN | grep Config' > > if you want to do it by hand. > Thanks for the information, but the perldoc is huge, and I don't have time > to learn everything. I found a few Config.pm and MyConfig.pm files, but > nothing seemed to have a "installman1" or anything like it. There's a section titled "CONFIGURATION"--you could start with that. No guarantees that's where your problems are though. I think Munir's suggestion to use your native packaging system to address this problem is right on the money. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 2 09:59:53 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: <1070373501.23411.9.camel@unixws1> References: <20031201174635.A13943@baker.space.umn.edu> <1070373501.23411.9.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <3FCCB6F9.4020902@visi.com> If someone is going to play with the saw blade idea, get a video camera for the event. Leave the video tape to me in your will so I can sell it to hollyweird. I can see it now "Jack Ass II - Sharp Spinning Objects" :-D By the way, DON'T DO IT! You got me on to the wood working tool subject, something I know more about then Linux or M$. I know that a hand held circular saw blade spins from about 1100 rpm to over 5000 rpm. They use a universal motor. The universal motor is designed to run at higher rpm, at lower horse power, for cutting quick cross cuts. A a radial arm or table saw uses an induction motor that runs at lower rpm but higher horse power. The induction motor will maintain it's rotational speed when ripping the length of a 6 foot oak 2x10 because the horse power is greater. A radial arm saw (one of my favorite wood working tools by the way) by Delta has a 14 inch blade and a 3 horse motor, it produces about 3400 rpm. I would not want t be in the way if that blade comes off the spindle. At least it would _not_ go in the direction of the user if it did. I've seen blades with missing carbide teeth but I have not had the joy of being in the way of one. They generally come off in the material being cut. It happens because people force to much material in to the blade or the material has nails or other foreign matter in it, loosening and removing teeth. This would be similar to the CD coming apart in the drive. Using your ears is the best measure of how a saw is performing. I heard a 5 horse table saw come to a complete stop and blow the breaker one time. To much material being forced in to the blade. It really didn't take that long, the kid didn't understand why it "always" did that (@#$%$). I explained to him why he should take his time and let the machine do the work. Norm is right, always ware your safety glasses! Sam. Adam Maloney wrote: > > >Wow, some of this is actually coming back to me. It's been awhile since >Physics-I at the U (I had that older German prof, goofy guy...Hans or >something) > >We did some calculations in class once about a (solid-frame all-steel >full-sized) Cadillac colliding head-on with a VW bug. > >I don't remember any of the numbers, but the Caddy driver ended up >calling the ambulance/coroner for the VW driver, who would have been >catapulted 60+ feet through the windshield (assuming no seatbelt, no >windshield). Made me feel a lot better about driving my (solid-frame, >all-steel, full-sized, '89 Crown Vic) Shaggin' Wagon. > >It would be interesting to see a comparison between a spinning CD and >the spinning blade of a radial arm saw. Granted, the blade is much >heavier than a CD, but I bet the CD spins a lot faster > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Tue Dec 2 09:51:55 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (bradyh@bitstream.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. In-Reply-To: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> References: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> Message-ID: <1070380315.3fccb51bbd331@mail.bitstream.net> GDM is the Gnome Display Manager but a lot of people use it because it's a pretty good one. If it's noticably slowing down your system you could probably use more memory. I've never tried it but if you're on an rpm based distro you should be able to remove it using: rpm -e gdm Brady Quoting Sam MacDonald : > Story of my life with Linux. > > Does Linux (the system) turn gnome off when it starts KDE, for us KDE users? > I think the answer is "no" because it needs it after a logout to > prompt for login. > So KDE users get the honor of using both KDE and gnome at the > same time? > > > So because I made the mistake, missing the "last" dialog box that says > something like "do you want to use a graphical login? with the default > of "use a graphical login". I've been cursed with a graphical login. > > If you remember our brave (ignorant) Linux user is also trying to get > rid of the graphical login. See the thread "Lost". In the middle I put > something about changing from graphical to terminal login. > > So I change the "inittab" file so it uses a "3" for multiuser login > instead of a "5" for X11 and restart the machine. > (Thanks to all for the information) > > Now this does not solve the original problem, it did stop the message > coming up every 2 -5 minutes. Even without X windows running the message > would display. Did I say X windows would start KDE without any > problem? Well it does, but the message would pop up as above until I > change "inittab". > OH did I say X windows is running about 20% faster now? OH I didn't, > well it is running about 20% faster then when I had the graphical > login. Best guess; 2 windows managers were running all the time. > > Did I say OO Writer starts then it did before the change to a terminal > login. Well it starts in 1 minute 25 seconds instead of 1 minute 55 > seconds. Yes, I timed it when I first installed it. > > > Back to the original problem... > > So I set the permissions using the file manager but now the error is (it > was before changeling to terminal login) > > "Server Authorization directory (Daemon/ServAuthdir) is set to /var/gdm > but has the wrong permissions, it should have permissions of 0750. > Please correct the permissions or the gdm configuration > /etc/X11/gem/gdm.conf and restart gdm" > > For the life of me I can't remember what the "human" values of 0750 > are. And I can't remember the command to set permissions. The > permissions should be corrected just in case I want to torcher myself > with a graphical login in some far off time. > > Sam. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 2 10:09:43 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. In-Reply-To: <3FCC2FF5.2040708@visi.com> References: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> <3FCC2FF5.2040708@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FCCB947.3010902@visi.com> Cool, I changed the permissions to the directory chmod 0750 gdm I might test it later (put the graphical login back in place) but I doubt it will be a priority. Michael Vieths wrote: > Sam MacDonald wrote: > >> For the life of me I can't remember what the "human" values of 0750 >> are. And I can't remember the command to set permissions. The >> permissions should be corrected just in case I want to torcher myself >> with a graphical login in some far off time. >> >> Sam. > > > That'd be 0 (sticky bit, you can pretty much ignore this one), 7 > (read/write/execute for user), 5 (read and execute for group), and 0 > (allow nothing for other users who aren't in your group). > > Use chmod to change them. It works out to: > > 4 Read > 2 Write > 1 Execute > > So, 4+2+1=7, for 'read/write/execute', or '4+1=5' for 'read/execute'. > > To change a file to 0750, you'd do 'chmod 0750 filename'. You can > also do more readable versions: > > chmod u+r filename > will add read permissions for users to filename. Also works with -r > (remove read), or +w/-w to add or remove write, and +x/-x to add or > remove execute. Use u for user, g for group, o for everyone else, and > a for all three. > > Hope this is helpful. > > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Visi.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 2 10:15:00 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. In-Reply-To: <1070380315.3fccb51bbd331@mail.bitstream.net> References: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> <1070380315.3fccb51bbd331@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <3FCCBA84.2050400@visi.com> Just changing to a terminal login fixed the problem because gdm does not need to run. The login is not graphical so... It only starts if graphical login is the option used in inittab. I then fixed the permissions problem and might test it by setting the login back to graphical in the inittab. Low priority btw. Sam. bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: >GDM is the Gnome Display Manager but a lot of people use it because it's a >pretty good one. If it's noticably slowing down your system you could probably >use more memory. > >I've never tried it but if you're on an rpm based distro you should be able to >remove it using: >rpm -e gdm > >Brady > >Quoting Sam MacDonald : > > > >>Story of my life with Linux. >> >>Does Linux (the system) turn gnome off when it starts KDE, for us KDE users? >> I think the answer is "no" because it needs it after a logout to >>prompt for login. >> So KDE users get the honor of using both KDE and gnome at the >>same time? >> >> >>So because I made the mistake, missing the "last" dialog box that says >>something like "do you want to use a graphical login? with the default >>of "use a graphical login". I've been cursed with a graphical login. >> >>If you remember our brave (ignorant) Linux user is also trying to get >>rid of the graphical login. See the thread "Lost". In the middle I put >>something about changing from graphical to terminal login. >> >>So I change the "inittab" file so it uses a "3" for multiuser login >>instead of a "5" for X11 and restart the machine. >> (Thanks to all for the information) >> >>Now this does not solve the original problem, it did stop the message >>coming up every 2 -5 minutes. Even without X windows running the message >>would display. Did I say X windows would start KDE without any >>problem? Well it does, but the message would pop up as above until I >>change "inittab". >>OH did I say X windows is running about 20% faster now? OH I didn't, >>well it is running about 20% faster then when I had the graphical >>login. Best guess; 2 windows managers were running all the time. >> >>Did I say OO Writer starts then it did before the change to a terminal >>login. Well it starts in 1 minute 25 seconds instead of 1 minute 55 >>seconds. Yes, I timed it when I first installed it. >> >> >>Back to the original problem... >> >>So I set the permissions using the file manager but now the error is (it >>was before changeling to terminal login) >> >>"Server Authorization directory (Daemon/ServAuthdir) is set to /var/gdm >>but has the wrong permissions, it should have permissions of 0750. >>Please correct the permissions or the gdm configuration >>/etc/X11/gem/gdm.conf and restart gdm" >> >>For the life of me I can't remember what the "human" values of 0750 >>are. And I can't remember the command to set permissions. The >>permissions should be corrected just in case I want to torcher myself >>with a graphical login in some far off time. >> >>Sam. >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gsker at tcfreenet.org Tue Dec 2 10:35:46 2003 From: gsker at tcfreenet.org (Gerry) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help installing Request Tracker (RT) Digest-MD5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hay! I was just pondering whether I should post a VERY simlar question! The error that Chris is getting is the exact error I get when I try to build Tk at home. It builds fine on my work machine and they are both RedHat 9 machines! If you (chris) look at Makefile in your cpan build directory, you might see a Mess!!!! ExtUtils::MakeMaker is hosing the whole thing up somehow and I can't figure it out! . . . . I _JUST_ went googling for this and found reference to a problem with LANG in the newsgroups! I set LANG to en_US and rebuilt and guess what! It worked! I also found a thread exactly about Digest::MD5. (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=MakeMaker+acting+very+very+weird) So, Chris, try this -- export LANG=en_US perl -MCPAN -e"install Digest::MD5" And let us know how far you get! Thanks for the motivation to fix this. I have a nice stock watching program that required it! (http://dirk.eddelbuettel.com/code/smtm.html). A little more research revealed that LANG is unset at work and set to en_US.UTF-8 at home. Gerry On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Chris Schumann wrote: > > From: "John J. Trammell" > > 1. You can always install the Perl module "by hand"--no need to > > use CPAN. > Well, I'm not sure how to do that. If I use "perl -MCPAN -eshell" and then > "install Digest::MD5" the same thing happens. > [SNIP] > Makefile.PL is used to build Makefile (it says "Writing Makefile for > Digest::MD5") and then the make error appears. > > CPAN.pm: Going to build G/GA/GAAS/Digest-MD5-2.31.tar.gz > > Testing alignment requirements for U32... no restrictions > Checking if your kit is complete... > Looks good > Writing Makefile for Digest::MD5 > Makefile:84: *** missing separator. Stop. > /usr/bin/make -j3 -- NOT OK > > Any other ideas or pointers where to look? > Chris -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@tcfreenet.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Dec 2 10:44:47 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: <1070373501.23411.9.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Adam Maloney wrote: > I don't remember any of the numbers, but the Caddy driver ended up > calling the ambulance/coroner for the VW driver, who would have been > catapulted 60+ feet through the windshield (assuming no seatbelt, no > windshield). Made me feel a lot better about driving my (solid-frame, > all-steel, full-sized, '89 Crown Vic) Shaggin' Wagon. yeah, but you would also have the meanest case of whiplash(sp?) in the world. most people assume that cars are not build like they used to because cars nowadays crumple when hit. It is true that they are not built like they used to, they are in fact designed to crumple. think of the part that crumples as the foam that protects the harddrive when the UPS guy is chugging it into the back of his truck! bet you did not take that into account as you were making the calculations -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Dec 2 10:54:41 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. References: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> <1070380315.3fccb51bbd331@mail.bitstream.net> <3FCCBA84.2050400@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FCCC3D1.4000500@structural-wood.com> You can temporarily switch to graphical login using the command telinit 5 and back to a textual login using telinit 3 Good for testing your {g,x,k}dm setup. Note that if your {g,x,k}dm setup is bad, you can (probably) do a [ctrl[alt][backspace] to kill the X-server and get back to a text prompt. {[(Kent)]} Sam MacDonald wrote: > Just changing to a terminal login fixed the problem because gdm does not > need to run. The login is not graphical so... > > It only starts if graphical login is the option used in inittab. I > then fixed the permissions problem and might test it by setting the > login back to graphical in the inittab. Low priority btw. > > Sam. > > bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > >> GDM is the Gnome Display Manager but a lot of people use it because >> it's a >> pretty good one. If it's noticably slowing down your system you could >> probably >> use more memory. >> >> I've never tried it but if you're on an rpm based distro you should be >> able to >> remove it using: >> rpm -e gdm >> >> Brady >> >> Quoting Sam MacDonald : >> >> >> >>> Story of my life with Linux. >>> >>> Does Linux (the system) turn gnome off when it starts KDE, for us KDE >>> users? >>> I think the answer is "no" because it needs it after a logout to >>> prompt for login. >>> So KDE users get the honor of using both KDE and gnome at the >>> same time? >>> >>> >>> So because I made the mistake, missing the "last" dialog box that >>> says something like "do you want to use a graphical login? with the >>> default of "use a graphical login". I've been cursed with a >>> graphical login. >>> >>> If you remember our brave (ignorant) Linux user is also trying to get >>> rid of the graphical login. See the thread "Lost". In the middle I >>> put something about changing from graphical to terminal login. >>> >>> So I change the "inittab" file so it uses a "3" for multiuser login >>> instead of a "5" for X11 and restart the machine. >>> (Thanks to all for the information) >>> >>> Now this does not solve the original problem, it did stop the message >>> coming up every 2 -5 minutes. Even without X windows running the >>> message would display. Did I say X windows would start KDE without >>> any problem? Well it does, but the message would pop up as above >>> until I change "inittab". >>> OH did I say X windows is running about 20% faster now? OH I didn't, >>> well it is running about 20% faster then when I had the graphical >>> login. Best guess; 2 windows managers were running all the time. >>> >>> Did I say OO Writer starts then it did before the change to a >>> terminal login. Well it starts in 1 minute 25 seconds instead of 1 >>> minute 55 seconds. Yes, I timed it when I first installed it. >>> >>> >>> Back to the original problem... >>> >>> So I set the permissions using the file manager but now the error is >>> (it was before changeling to terminal login) >>> "Server Authorization directory (Daemon/ServAuthdir) is set to >>> /var/gdm but has the wrong permissions, it should have permissions of >>> 0750. Please correct the permissions or the gdm configuration >>> /etc/X11/gem/gdm.conf and restart gdm" >>> >>> For the life of me I can't remember what the "human" values of 0750 >>> are. And I can't remember the command to set permissions. The >>> permissions should be corrected just in case I want to torcher myself >>> with a graphical login in some far off time. >>> >>> Sam. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Tue Dec 2 11:31:50 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> No we didn't. But at the risk of starting a flamewar, I'd like to point out that the number of accident-related fatalities in Minnesota hasn't changed significantly in the last 20 years (since the advent of things like (picture Chris Farley here...) "seatbelt laws", and "crumple zones" and "a .06 legal limit"). It has changed, but not a big (forgive the pun) dent, like you would expect based on all of the safety requirements and advances that have supposedly happened. (Okay, don't get all mad here, I'm going on a rant, and lots of this is tongue-in-cheek) Sure, at 60mph head-on I wouldn't *mind* having a crumple zone and some airbags, but an injury accident is a game of mass, and the guy driving the '03 Civic with all of his sissy space-aged safety widgets, NASA plastic body, a 6" tailpipe, and a 400hp stereo in a 150hp car, is probably going to be much worse off than I would have been in my Exxon-Valdez (the Shaggin' Wagon's other name, it was a tanker, and it leaked oil). Carl knows what I'm talking about - he had that pimpin' 80's Caddy. I got comments from the guys at the Meth lab across the street for days after he stopped by in that beast. All the ladies want him, and all the crank addicts want to *be* him! Hell, the wagon HAD crumple zones...someone ran a red and drove into the rear quarter-panel (behind the rear tire), dented it in. Did I have to fly some Japanese guy to America with special tools and paint to fix it up? No! We took an 8-pound sledge and pounded that dent out. That rat-bastard fled the scene too. On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 10:44, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Adam Maloney wrote: > > > I don't remember any of the numbers, but the Caddy driver ended up > > calling the ambulance/coroner for the VW driver, who would have been > > catapulted 60+ feet through the windshield (assuming no seatbelt, no > > windshield). Made me feel a lot better about driving my (solid-frame, > > all-steel, full-sized, '89 Crown Vic) Shaggin' Wagon. > > yeah, but you would also have the meanest case of whiplash(sp?) in the > world. > > most people assume that cars are not build like they used to because cars > nowadays crumple when hit. It is true that they are not built like they > used to, they are in fact designed to crumple. think of the part that > crumples as the foam that protects the harddrive when the UPS guy is > chugging it into the back of his truck! > > bet you did not take that into account as you were making the > calculations _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Tue Dec 2 11:38:32 2003 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. In-Reply-To: <3FCCBA84.2050400@visi.com> (message from Sam MacDonald on Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:15:00 -0600) References: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> <1070380315.3fccb51bbd331@mail.bitstream.net> <3FCCBA84.2050400@visi.com> Message-ID: <200312021738.hB2HcWj01950@ecstasy.winternet.com> Sam MacDonald wrote: >Just changing to a terminal login fixed the problem because gdm does not >need to run. The login is not graphical so... >It only starts if graphical login is the option used in inittab. I >then fixed the permissions problem and might test it by setting the >login back to graphical in the inittab. Low priority btw. Just a minor objection to the use of the word "only" in the above paragraph. Any init level (in this case 5 = graphical login) can be passed to the kernel at boot time (via the boot loader) and overrides the default init level in the /etc/inittab file. See my previous posts on this subject for the details of how this can be done using either the lilo or grub boot loaders. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Dec 2 11:37:22 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: RE: OT: Exploding CDROM (Adam Maloney) Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B44D@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > > On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 10:44, Munir Nassar wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Adam Maloney wrote: > > > > > I don't remember any of the numbers, but the Caddy driver ended up > > > calling the ambulance/coroner for the VW driver, who > would have been > > > catapulted 60+ feet through the windshield (assuming no > seatbelt, no > > > windshield). Made me feel a lot better about driving my > (solid-frame, > > > all-steel, full-sized, '89 Crown Vic) Shaggin' Wagon. > > > > yeah, but you would also have the meanest case of > whiplash(sp?) in the > > world. > > > > most people assume that cars are not build like they used > to because cars > > nowadays crumple when hit. It is true that they are not > built like they > > used to, they are in fact designed to crumple. think of the > part that > > crumples as the foam that protects the harddrive when the > UPS guy is > > chugging it into the back of his truck! > > > > bet you did not take that into account as you were making the > > calculations The smaller car is your crumple zone. When I used to drive charter bus, we joked that a car between us and a semi was an air bag. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From murph at mr.net Tue Dec 2 08:43:42 2003 From: murph at mr.net (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > long story short - think of each grouping as a binary number and then > convert to decimal. Of course! No problem! I was, at one time, an EE student, and even I think that's an idea only a hardcore geek could really use. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Dec 2 11:47:04 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help installing Request Tracker (RT) Digest-MD5 Message-ID: I think you can change the default for this in: /etc/sysconfig/i18n if it solves the problem for you. >>> Gerry 12/02/03 10:35AM >>> Hay! I was just pondering whether I should post a VERY simlar question! The error that Chris is getting is the exact error I get when I try to build Tk at home. It builds fine on my work machine and they are both RedHat 9 machines! If you (chris) look at Makefile in your cpan build directory, you might see a Mess!!!! ExtUtils::MakeMaker is hosing the whole thing up somehow and I can't figure it out! . . . . I _JUST_ went googling for this and found reference to a problem with LANG in the newsgroups! I set LANG to en_US and rebuilt and guess what! It worked! I also found a thread exactly about Digest::MD5. (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=MakeMaker+acting+very+very+weird) So, Chris, try this -- export LANG=en_US perl -MCPAN -e"install Digest::MD5" And let us know how far you get! Thanks for the motivation to fix this. I have a nice stock watching program that required it! (http://dirk.eddelbuettel.com/code/smtm.html). A little more research revealed that LANG is unset at work and set to en_US.UTF-8 at home. Gerry On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Chris Schumann wrote: > > From: "John J. Trammell" > > 1. You can always install the Perl module "by hand"--no need to > > use CPAN. > Well, I'm not sure how to do that. If I use "perl -MCPAN -eshell" and then > "install Digest::MD5" the same thing happens. > [SNIP] > Makefile.PL is used to build Makefile (it says "Writing Makefile for > Digest::MD5") and then the make error appears. > > CPAN.pm: Going to build G/GA/GAAS/Digest-MD5-2.31.tar.gz > > Testing alignment requirements for U32... no restrictions > Checking if your kit is complete... > Looks good > Writing Makefile for Digest::MD5 > Makefile:84: *** missing separator. Stop. > /usr/bin/make -j3 -- NOT OK > > Any other ideas or pointers where to look? > Chris -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@tcfreenet.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Tue Dec 2 12:02:38 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 08:43:42 -0600, Matt Murphy wrote: >> long story short - think of each grouping as a binary number and then >> convert to decimal. > > Of course! No problem! I was, at one time, an EE student, and even I > think that's an idea only a hardcore geek could really use. > :) Oh come on, I think everyone would agree that counting in binary is the easiest way to count... ;) 111 = 7 - shoot, what could be easier? > Matt > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Dec 2 12:07:47 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Adam Maloney wrote: > No we didn't. But at the risk of starting a flamewar, I'd like to point > out that the number of accident-related fatalities in Minnesota hasn't > changed significantly in the last 20 years number or percentages? if the number stayed the same the percentages are going down, and if percentages are the same then it is still a "plus" considering the additional number of people who are now on the roads and that these roads were not designed with this number of cars in mind. > (Okay, don't get all mad here, I'm going on a rant, and lots of this is > tongue-in-cheek) mad? this is all for fun, no? > Sure, at 60mph head-on I wouldn't *mind* having a crumple zone and some > airbags, but an injury accident is a game of mass, and the guy driving > the '03 Civic with all of his sissy space-aged safety widgets, NASA > plastic body, a 6" tailpipe, and a 400hp stereo in a 150hp car, is > probably going to be much worse off than I would have been in my > Exxon-Valdez (the Shaggin' Wagon's other name, it was a tanker, and it > leaked oil). at least the civic got the best milage getting to the crash :) -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Tue Dec 2 12:12:21 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: > but an injury accident is a game of mass, and the guy driving > the '03 Civic <*snip*> is > probably going to be much worse off than I would have been in my > Exxon-Valdez True, but studies show *you* won't be better off because you have a big car, the other guy will just be worse off. (at least that's what studies of SUVs said) So, basically if you're just out to kill other people, go for it, but I'll be hoping my crumple zones (and quick reflexes) protect me. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Dec 2 13:03:16 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars Message-ID: Which studies? I want to read them. >>> "Matt Murphy" 12/02/03 12:12PM >>> True, but studies show *you* won't be better off because you have a big car, the other guy will just be worse off. (at least that's what studies of SUVs said) So, basically if you're just out to kill other people, go for it, but I'll be hoping my crumple zones (and quick reflexes) protect me. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Dec 2 13:26:08 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: References: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <20031202192608.GE2167@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 12:12:21PM -0600, Matt Murphy wrote: > True, but studies show *you* won't be better off > because you have a big car, the other guy will just be worse off. > (at least that's what studies of SUVs said) So, basically if you're > just out to kill other people, go for it, but I'll be hoping my crumple > zones (and quick reflexes) protect me. Not exactly true, the mass of my '88 chevy is more than enough to plow *through* the fiberglass cars and continue on my merry way until friction brings me to a "gentle" halt. On the extreme end, consider a semi or train running into a vehicle, the mass is too great for one of those dinky cars to stop. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Dec 2 13:34:49 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B44E@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew S. Hallacy [mailto:poptix@techmonkeys.org] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:26 PM > To: mmurphy@tc-tech.com; TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars > > > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 12:12:21PM -0600, Matt Murphy wrote: > > > True, but studies show *you* won't be better off > > because you have a big car, the other guy will just be worse off. > > (at least that's what studies of SUVs said) So, basically if you're > > just out to kill other people, go for it, but I'll be > hoping my crumple > > zones (and quick reflexes) protect me. > > Not exactly true, the mass of my '88 chevy is more than enough to plow > *through* the fiberglass cars and continue on my merry way > until friction > brings me to a "gentle" halt. > > On the extreme end, consider a semi or train running into a vehicle, > the mass is too great for one of those dinky cars to stop. > > -- > Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, > BOFH Certified > http://www.poptix.net GPG public > key 0x01938203 > Reminds me of the parody of Elvis's "In the Ghetto" "In a Yugo" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Dec 2 14:20:52 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars References: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> <20031202192608.GE2167@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3FCCF424.3070703@structural-wood.com> Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 12:12:21PM -0600, Matt Murphy wrote: > > >> True, but studies show *you* won't be better off >>because you have a big car, the other guy will just be worse off. >>(at least that's what studies of SUVs said) So, basically if you're >>just out to kill other people, go for it, but I'll be hoping my crumple >>zones (and quick reflexes) protect me. > > > Not exactly true, the mass of my '88 chevy is more than enough to plow > *through* the fiberglass cars and continue on my merry way until friction > brings me to a "gentle" halt. > > On the extreme end, consider a semi or train running into a vehicle, > the mass is too great for one of those dinky cars to stop. > Having known somebody who actually did plow *through* a fiberclass car and merrily wiped out a family, I can tell you that the fact that he didn't sustain injuries didn't really help him much. He managed to survive a couple more months until his birthday and then the pain became too much and he ended it. For the first time in decades the survivability of a crash is going down, and I think it's pretty safe to say it's because of the mismatch in vehicle sizes. Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Dec 2 14:49:51 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: <3FCCF424.3070703@structural-wood.com> References: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> <20031202192608.GE2167@techmonkeys.org> <3FCCF424.3070703@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20031202204951.GF2167@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 02:20:52PM -0600, Kent Schumacher wrote: > > Having known somebody who actually did plow *through* a fiberclass car > and merrily wiped out a family, I can tell you that the fact that he > didn't sustain injuries didn't really help him much. He managed to > survive a couple more months until his birthday and then the pain > became too much and he ended it. Perhaps we need better testing before allowing people to drive. I've seen plenty of accidents, most are caused by people being idiots talking on their cell phones, reading a newspaper, applying makeup(!), reaching into the back seat to attend to a child.. the list goes on. > For the first time in decades the survivability of a crash is going > down, and I think it's pretty safe to say it's because of the > mismatch in vehicle sizes. So complain to your neighbors in their SUV's, I actually use my vehicle for work. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Tue Dec 2 15:05:59 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FCCFEB7.8000408@visi.com> Troy.A Johnson wrote: >Which studies? I want to read them. > > > For straight crash/weight data, try http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/regrev/evaluate/pdf/809662.pdf which should tell you more than you want to know. One thing to keep in mind is that when you're talking about SUVs, especially full sized SUVs, any benefit you get from the added weight and vehicle height miss-match is more than offset by the higher probability of being killed in a rollover accident. --rick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Tue Dec 2 15:15:46 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: <20031202192608.GE2167@techmonkeys.org> References: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> <20031202192608.GE2167@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3FCD0102.7090803@visi.com> Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: >On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 12:12:21PM -0600, Matt Murphy wrote: > > > >> True, but studies show *you* won't be better off >>because you have a big car, the other guy will just be worse off. >>(at least that's what studies of SUVs said) So, basically if you're >>just out to kill other people, go for it, but I'll be hoping my crumple >>zones (and quick reflexes) protect me. >> >> > >Not exactly true, the mass of my '88 chevy is more than enough to plow >*through* the fiberglass cars and continue on my merry way until friction >brings me to a "gentle" halt. > > > The problem with your '88 Chevy is that its rigid frame will transfer most of the kinetic energy into the cabin where your body gets to make the necessary adjustments to absorb the impact. The big question is how you're feeling when friction brings the car to a gentle halt but your spinal cord has impaled itself in your brain pan. I really hate it when that happens. >On the extreme end, consider a semi or train running into a vehicle, >the mass is too great for one of those dinky cars to stop. > > The difference won't be much different than a train impacting a Suburban. Given the choice between an '88 Chev and a 2003 Civic with a crumple zone, front and side-curtain airbags, I'll take the Honda every time. Just for the record, one of the worst performing vehicles on the offset crash test is the F-150 with near certainty of the driver and passenger being severely injured or killed. One of the best is the Forester. --rick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Dec 2 15:10:09 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B451@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Kent Schumacher [mailto:kent@structural-wood.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:21 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars > > > For the first time in decades the survivability of a crash is going > down, and I think it's pretty safe to say it's because of the > mismatch in vehicle sizes. Speed limits are higher than they've been in recent decades and the MN Highway Patrol will tell you speeding is a bigger problem than ever, likely these are contributing factors if not the main factor. Drive whatever pleases oneself. There are no evil cars. You want a Hummer, good. Prefer a Yugo, good. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Tue Dec 2 15:14:07 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8F9@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Vehicle size wouldn't matter if the person driving the offending car was paying attention in the first place. Not that I should really be saying anything. I use my cell phone in the car quite a bit. Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 -----Original Message----- From: Matthew S. Hallacy [mailto:poptix@techmonkeys.org] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:50 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 02:20:52PM -0600, Kent Schumacher wrote: > > Having known somebody who actually did plow *through* a fiberclass car > and merrily wiped out a family, I can tell you that the fact that he > didn't sustain injuries didn't really help him much. He managed to > survive a couple more months until his birthday and then the pain > became too much and he ended it. Perhaps we need better testing before allowing people to drive. I've seen plenty of accidents, most are caused by people being idiots talking on their cell phones, reading a newspaper, applying makeup(!), reaching into the back seat to attend to a child.. the list goes on. > For the first time in decades the survivability of a crash is going > down, and I think it's pretty safe to say it's because of the > mismatch in vehicle sizes. So complain to your neighbors in their SUV's, I actually use my vehicle for work. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 2 15:34:51 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8F9@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8F9@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Message-ID: <3FCD057B.7070403@visi.com> Did you know that it is illegal for a commercial driver (Bus, Truck, Taxi) to be on the phone while driving. Sam. Neigebauer, Ben wrote: >Vehicle size wouldn't matter if the person driving the offending car was >paying attention in the first place. > >Not that I should really be saying anything. I use my cell phone in the >car quite a bit. > > >Benjamin E. Neigebauer >Software Engineer >Compellent Technologies >Eden Prairie, MN 55344 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Matthew S. Hallacy [mailto:poptix@techmonkeys.org] >Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:50 PM >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars > >On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 02:20:52PM -0600, Kent Schumacher wrote: > > >>Having known somebody who actually did plow *through* a fiberclass car >>and merrily wiped out a family, I can tell you that the fact that he >>didn't sustain injuries didn't really help him much. He managed to >>survive a couple more months until his birthday and then the pain >>became too much and he ended it. >> >> > >Perhaps we need better testing before allowing people to drive. I've >seen >plenty of accidents, most are caused by people being idiots talking on >their cell phones, reading a newspaper, applying makeup(!), reaching >into >the back seat to attend to a child.. the list goes on. > > > >>For the first time in decades the survivability of a crash is going >>down, and I think it's pretty safe to say it's because of the >>mismatch in vehicle sizes. >> >> > >So complain to your neighbors in their SUV's, I actually use my vehicle >for work. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 2 15:32:55 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: <20031202204951.GF2167@techmonkeys.org> References: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> <20031202192608.GE2167@techmonkeys.org> <3FCCF424.3070703@structural-wood.com> <20031202204951.GF2167@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3FCD0507.8020701@visi.com> I could have my buddy Tom, who does medical helicopter transport, give a talk. He can put in to perspective the reasons why big is good. He can tell stories that will make you weep. He calls me once in a while when he has a bad day (his wife can't listen any more) His bad days usually involve kids and cars. He once had a day when an ATV and a car met on a road, 2 kids under 12 years old on the ATV, do I need to go on. Sam. Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: >On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 02:20:52PM -0600, Kent Schumacher wrote: > > >>Having known somebody who actually did plow *through* a fiberclass car >>and merrily wiped out a family, I can tell you that the fact that he >>didn't sustain injuries didn't really help him much. He managed to >>survive a couple more months until his birthday and then the pain >>became too much and he ended it. >> >> > >Perhaps we need better testing before allowing people to drive. I've seen >plenty of accidents, most are caused by people being idiots talking on >their cell phones, reading a newspaper, applying makeup(!), reaching into >the back seat to attend to a child.. the list goes on. > > > >>For the first time in decades the survivability of a crash is going >>down, and I think it's pretty safe to say it's because of the >>mismatch in vehicle sizes. >> >> > >So complain to your neighbors in their SUV's, I actually use my vehicle >for work. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Tue Dec 2 15:07:47 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: <20031202204951.GF2167@techmonkeys.org> References: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> <20031202192608.GE2167@techmonkeys.org> <3FCCF424.3070703@structural-wood.com> <20031202204951.GF2167@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <1070399266.23411.147.camel@unixws1> > their cell phones, reading a newspaper, applying makeup(!), reaching into > the back seat to attend to a child.. the list goes on. 'round here that's called the "Father Arm". The Father Arm has the most reach of any human appendage, and is actually able to reach from the drivers seat of a schoolbus all the way to the back in one swift motion. I would like to say that Darwin will ultimately fix the bad-driver problem, but "those people" unfortunately don't have their own set of roads. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Tue Dec 2 15:11:45 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: <20031202204951.GF2167@techmonkeys.org> References: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> <20031202192608.GE2167@techmonkeys.org> <3FCCF424.3070703@structural-wood.com> <20031202204951.GF2167@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: Oh goodie - a SUV flame war - what hasn't come up on this list? PUH LEEEZE..... I just LOVE my new Canyonero! http://hangingon.org/canyonero.html > > So complain to your neighbors in their SUV's, I actually use my vehicle > for work. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Dec 2 15:49:10 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars References: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> <20031202192608.GE2167@techmonkeys.org> <3FCCF424.3070703@structural-wood.com> <3FCCFC38.3080808@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <3FCD08D6.4030403@structural-wood.com> Ben Bargabus wrote: > >> For the first time in decades the survivability of a crash is going >> down, and I think it's pretty safe to say it's because of the >> mismatch in vehicle sizes. > > > > I hope you're not implying that the solution is then to bring everyone > to the lowest common denominator (ie 1500 pound cars). > > Ben. > > > No, I think the solution is to try to get people to think about the real cost of SUV's and big vehicles and make an enlightened selfish decision about what they want to drive. Based on what I see when I drive, I would say the SUV trend has peaked, and people are already deciding to go to smaller vehicles. If I were to advocate anything more than thinking, I would probably address Matthews point in another e-mail about training, and possibly push for a different sort of license test for large vehicles (something like a Class B license). The requirements for driving a large vehicle are different enough that I think a different class of license may be warranted. Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Dec 2 15:56:19 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > http://hangingon.org/canyonero.html reminds me of some sticker i found somewhere: "Drive defensively: Buy a tank!" -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Dec 2 15:46:29 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8F9@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Message-ID: <3FCD0835.5010708@structural-wood.com> The biggest problem I have in driving a smaller car when surrounded by much larger vehicles is that I really can't pay attention to anything because I can't see anything. Any yes, I am that guy that either works really hard to position my car so that a small car is in front of me or I maintain about 8 car lengths (or two SUV lengths :) of seperation. What I would really like is reactive armor and some of those see through things glasses. Well, that and rear and front mounted armor piercing lasers. And a massive spatula attachment on the front of my car. Neigebauer, Ben wrote: > Vehicle size wouldn't matter if the person driving the offending car was > paying attention in the first place. > > Not that I should really be saying anything. I use my cell phone in the > car quite a bit. > > > Benjamin E. Neigebauer > Software Engineer > Compellent Technologies > Eden Prairie, MN 55344 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew S. Hallacy [mailto:poptix@techmonkeys.org] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:50 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars > > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 02:20:52PM -0600, Kent Schumacher wrote: > >>Having known somebody who actually did plow *through* a fiberclass car >>and merrily wiped out a family, I can tell you that the fact that he >>didn't sustain injuries didn't really help him much. He managed to >>survive a couple more months until his birthday and then the pain >>became too much and he ended it. > > > Perhaps we need better testing before allowing people to drive. I've > seen > plenty of accidents, most are caused by people being idiots talking on > their cell phones, reading a newspaper, applying makeup(!), reaching > into > the back seat to attend to a child.. the list goes on. > > >>For the first time in decades the survivability of a crash is going >>down, and I think it's pretty safe to say it's because of the >>mismatch in vehicle sizes. > > > So complain to your neighbors in their SUV's, I actually use my vehicle > for work. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Tue Dec 2 16:01:11 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: References: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> <20031202192608.GE2167@techmonkeys.org> <3FCCF424.3070703@structural-wood.com> <20031202204951.GF2167@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <0A3790F0-2513-11D8-9A24-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> On Dec 2, 2003, at 3:11 PM, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Oh goodie - a SUV flame war - what hasn't come up on this list? PUH > LEEEZE..... Butter side up or butter side down? -- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Tue Dec 2 16:10:17 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: <3FCD0835.5010708@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: > And a massive spatula attachment on the front of my car. But I think the spatula would probably kill the great gas mileage our little cars get. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Tue Dec 2 16:16:27 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: <0A3790F0-2513-11D8-9A24-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> References: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> <20031202192608.GE2167@techmonkeys.org> <3FCCF424.3070703@structural-wood.com> <20031202204951.GF2167@techmonkeys.org> <0A3790F0-2513-11D8-9A24-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <1070403386.23411.161.camel@unixws1> You can always just call someone a nazi and godwinize the thread :) On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 16:01, Justin Kremer wrote: > On Dec 2, 2003, at 3:11 PM, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > > > Oh goodie - a SUV flame war - what hasn't come up on this list? PUH > > LEEEZE..... > > Butter side up or butter side down? > > -- > Justin Kremer > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Dec 2 16:29:21 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars Message-ID: What about an aerodynamic spatula? >>> "Matt Murphy" 12/02/03 04:10PM >>> > And a massive spatula attachment on the front of my car. But I think the spatula would probably kill the great gas mileage our little cars get. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Tue Dec 2 16:29:18 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It could be stealthy, at first glance it's one of those goofy aftermarket bumpers, but hit the right switch and the SUV in front of you goes a rollin' over. Matt > What about an aerodynamic spatula? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben_b at ppdonline.com Tue Dec 2 16:53:40 2003 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars References: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> <20031202192608.GE2167@techmonkeys.org> <3FCCF424.3070703@structural-wood.com> <3FCCFC38.3080808@ppdonline.com> <3FCD08D6.4030403@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <3FCD17F4.3080301@ppdonline.com> > No, I think the solution is to try to get people to think about the real > cost of SUV's and big vehicles and make an enlightened selfish decision > about what they want to drive. Personally my big vehicles get used. As to people that don't "need" their big vehicles; I can understand what people think of those folks that drive an Excursion with a single occupant but I believe they have the right to drive whatever they want. If they are willing to pay for the truck/fuel/insurance/maintanance that come along with owning that huge thing and then never truly make use of its capabilities that's their decision and theirs alone. I suppose one could argue that they are "wasting" resources for the rest of us but I don't believe the earth is fragile or that we are in danger of running out of petroleum. > Based on what I see when I drive, I would say the SUV trend has peaked, > and people are already deciding to go to smaller vehicles. Not just smaller vehicles outside of the SUV market, the SUVs themselves are getting smaller. Take the RAV-4, Element, Escape, etc... They're downsizing. People who like the all weather capabilities, improved visibility, and added hauling and towing capabilities over a car that these SUVs provide can go for a compact SUV when they don't need the full utility of a larger truck. > If I were to advocate anything more than thinking, I would probably address > Matthews point in another e-mail about training, and possibly push for > a different sort of license test for large vehicles (something like a > Class B license). The requirements for driving a large vehicle are > different > enough that I think a different class of license may be warranted. I'm very rarely a fan of additional regulation. My vehicles already require me to have a different (more highly taxed) license (Class D is only good up to 26,000 pounds GCWR) but my fianc?, who drives a VW Jetta on a daily basis - definitely not a large vehicle, can jump into my trucks and drive them in a perfectly safe manor. There will always be idiots our there who are unable to handle whatever vehicle they have (even something as harmless as the segway(sp?) has already caused accidents and injuries) but loading regulations on the masses to stop the occasional idiot isn't in our best interest (IMHO). Have a good one! Ben. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Tue Dec 2 17:00:20 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: ; from mmurphy@tc-tech.com on Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 04:29:18PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20031202170020.F3087@real-time.com> On 12/02 04:29 , Matt Murphy wrote: > It could be stealthy, at first glance it's one of those goofy aftermarket bumpers, but hit the right switch and the SUV in front of you goes a rollin' over. I always thought it would be a good idea to have heavy-duty spring-loaded bumpers on cars, just like you see on older European railroad cars. I suspect the reason cars aren't generally fitted this way, is because: 1. it would add to the cost, and cheaper is usually considered to be better 2. the car companies make an outrageous fortune by selling you replacement parts that cost a lot of money, and only fit one particular model year and vehicle. They love crumple zones; it means they can sell you a good chunk of a new car! Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Tue Dec 2 16:56:08 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1>; from adamm@sihope.com on Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:31:50AM -0600 References: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <20031202165608.E3087@real-time.com> On 12/02 11:31 , Adam Maloney wrote: > Carl knows what I'm talking about - he had that pimpin' 80's Caddy. I > got comments from the guys at the Meth lab across the street for days > after he stopped by in that beast. All the ladies want him, and all the > crank addicts want to *be* him! sometimes I still wish I had that car.. then I remember how the transmission was failing, and I don't miss it anymore. :) Still, that car would _win_ collisions, instead of just leaving the poor driver alive to suffer through the repair bill. I just bought myself a new war-wagon on Saturday: http://www.redchrome.org/images/merc-headon.jpg http://www.redchrome.org/images/merc-rearquarter.jpg it's got a lot of mass out front to *win* collisions, but it's a new enough vehicle that it'll have crumple zones (better called 'outrageous repair bill zones'). Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From whagemeyer at ssgix.com Tue Dec 2 17:40:53 2003 From: whagemeyer at ssgix.com (Wynn Hagemeyer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031202/0d02c121/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoeff001 at umn.edu Tue Dec 2 17:50:32 2003 From: hoeff001 at umn.edu (Ed Hoeffner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 08:43:42 -0600, Matt Murphy wrote: > >>> long story short - think of each grouping as a binary number and then >>> convert to decimal. >> >> Of course! No problem! I was, at one time, an EE student, and even I >> think that's an idea only a hardcore geek could really use. >> > >:) Oh come on, I think everyone would agree that counting in binary is the >easiest way to count... ;) > >111 = 7 - shoot, what could be easier? To quote someone else (Sorry, whoever you are, but I don't remember): There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't > Matt > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rudie at rudie.net Tue Dec 2 17:44:48 2003 From: rudie at rudie.net (Kevin Hinze) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! In-Reply-To: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> References: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> Message-ID: <20031202174448.5518ad14.rudie@rudie.net> On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:40:53 -0600 Wynn Hagemeyer wrote: Do any of these cars have Linux in them? Are these studies compiled with the help of Linux? Does this topic relate to this list at all? If you feel like flaming SUVs and other gas guzzling cars go here (www.detroitproject.com) At least the thread would be on topic. I personally didn't opt to receive this list to hear about how many planets a certain lifestyle will use, or how SUVs are the biggest terror network known to man. Give me LINUX on my LUG mailing list. Thank you.

--
Wynn.
And I personally didn't opt to receive this list to read html formatted email. Please don't send html mail to the list. As an AEM student, I enjoy the physics. But not the html. -- -Kevin Hinze rudie@rudie.net | rudie@sihope.com hinz0047@tc.umn.edu | http://rudie.net Democracy: two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for lunch Liberty: a well armed sheep expressing his rights. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue Dec 2 18:29:37 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! (OT) In-Reply-To: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Wynn Hagemeyer wrote: > I personally didn't opt to receive this list to hear about how many > planets a certain lifestyle will use, or how SUVs are the biggest terror > network known to man. Give me LINUX on my LUG mailing list. Thank you. Procmail. Seriously, procmail. Inserting OT: in the subject line is usually enough of an asbestos suit, since procmail can easily filter that. The original Thread-hijacked flamewar was properly OT:'d, so I fail to see your point. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From loren at lorenburlingame.com Tue Dec 2 12:28:04 2003 From: loren at lorenburlingame.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! In-Reply-To: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> References: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> Message-ID: <200312021828.04526.loren@lorenburlingame.com> On Tuesday 02 December 2003 11:40 pm, Wynn Hagemeyer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Do any of these cars have Linux in them? Are these studies compiled > with the help of Linux? Does this topic relate to this list at all? If > you feel like flaming SUVs and other gas guzzling cars go href="http://www.detroitproject.com/">here > ( class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated">www.detroitproject.com) At least > the thread would be on topic. I > personally didn't opt to receive this list to hear about how many > planets a certain lifestyle will use, or how SUVs are the biggest > terror network known to man. Give me LINUX on my LUG mailing list. > Thank you.
>
> --
> Wynn.
> > give me plain text on my tclug list. LB _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Tue Dec 2 19:02:40 2003 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! In-Reply-To: <200312021828.04526.loren@lorenburlingame.com> References: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> <200312021828.04526.loren@lorenburlingame.com> Message-ID: <200312030102.hB312et07103@ecstasy.winternet.com> LB wrote: >give me plain text on my tclug list. I would prefer plain text as well. Is there a list policy mandating plain text or other types of e-mail? Lately, the tclug-list has been getting too many OT posts in my opinion. >On Tuesday 02 December 2003 11:40 pm, Wynn Hagemeyer wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Do any of these cars have Linux in them? Are these studies compiled >> with the help of Linux? Does this topic relate to this list at all? If >> you feel like flaming SUVs and other gas guzzling cars go > href="http://www.detroitproject.com/">here >> (> class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated">www.detroitproject.com) At least >> the thread would be on topic. I >> personally didn't opt to receive this list to hear about how many >> planets a certain lifestyle will use, or how SUVs are the biggest >> terror network known to man. Give me LINUX on my LUG mailing list. >> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Wynn.
>> >> Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Tue Dec 2 19:57:24 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! In-Reply-To: <200312030102.hB312et07103@ecstasy.winternet.com> References: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> <200312021828.04526.loren@lorenburlingame.com> <200312030102.hB312et07103@ecstasy.winternet.com> Message-ID: <20031203015724.GB32075@refried.org> On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 07:02:40PM -0600, Ken Fuchs wrote: > LB wrote: > >give me plain text on my tclug list. > > I would prefer plain text as well. Is there a list policy mandating > plain text or other types of e-mail? Probably not. Creating a list policy has come up in the past. Those discussions usually devolve into flamewars. Since the vast majority of mail to the list is plain text, I think it's easy to conclude that the preferred format is plain text. > Lately, the tclug-list has been getting too many OT posts in my > opinion. If you think the signal to noise ratio is getting high you're free to post something worthwhile. Just for replying to this thread, which I shouldn't have, I'll post something interesting in a few minutes. BTW, filtering the tclug list to a separate mailbox makes it easier to ignore off-topic threads. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Tue Dec 2 20:07:48 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recovering from accidently removing some of /usr Message-ID: <20031203020748.GC32075@refried.org> I helped out a friend the other day that accidently removed part of /usr from his system while trying to rearrange his server. He was going to move /usr to another partition when he decided not to and accidently rm -r'd the original. He caught it before it finished, but thought he was going to have to reinstall. Here's how I helped him avoid reinstalling from stratch. His system was running Redhat 9, which uses RPM to manage packages. RPM keeps a database of all files installed on a system from an RPM package. Luckily RPM still worked as tested by doing an `rpm -qa` to get a list of packages installed. The first task is to get a list of files that are missing from the system. Do this using RPM's verify operation. rpm -Va --nomd5 | grep ^missing | awk '{print $2}' > /tmp/missingfiles This will get a list of all files that are supposed to be installed on the system, but are missing. The next step is to find out which packages these belong to and filter the list down to a unique list of packages. cat /tmp/missingfiles | xargs rpm -qf | sort | uniq > /tmp/reinstall There's your list to go through. Get these packages off either your CDs or the net. You'll want to use `rpm -Uvh --replacepkgs` to install them. Needless to say, he was impressed and happy that he didn't have to reinstall from scratch. Another happy, part time, Linux user. :) Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Tue Dec 2 19:57:19 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] easy to use web content manager In-Reply-To: <006f01c3b778$ae233f90$0a00a8c0@DELL2> References: <006f01c3b778$ae233f90$0a00a8c0@DELL2> Message-ID: <1410.192.1.1.242.1070416639.squirrel@dccmn.com> drupal.org Raymond Norton said: > I need to find an open source, easy to set up / easy to use web content > manager. I tried to setup WebGui a year ago, but had server troubles. > I had someone working on a Cold Fusion solution, but he wasn't able to > get it done, so we are looking for something like WebGui again. > > > I would like it to support multiple users, be mysql driven, and if > possible, not look too blocky. > > > I would be glad to ask this question on a more appropriate news group, > but not sure what that would be. > > > Raymond > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Dec 2 21:18:23 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lost In-Reply-To: <3FCC2C19.6020802@comcast.net> References: <3FCBC6EF.3090702@visi.com> <3FCC1C8B.1070408@cleosci.com> <3FCC2C19.6020802@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031202211823.727e84d4.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 00:07:21 -0600 Todd Young wrote: > Uhm, my experience has always been to simply type "su" and then the > root password at the password query. I've never typed "su root". I > would assume that for most systems, "su" indicates root, as it's > short for "super user" which is equivalent to root as far as I know. > I always use the "-" whenever I su. I want the $PATH loaded for root. I'm a lazy SOB and don't want to type in the fully qualified path of each command. Let alone, hardly remembering the directories in which those commands exist. Bear in mind that not all distributions load root's $PATH with the switch of "su -" as a default. One of which is Debian. If you want it, you need to configure it yourself. I'm not positive about RH, but I believe that it load the $PATH for root. As to the comment about an su'ed environment and losing stuff setup that way, Nate covered it very well. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Dec 2 21:25:49 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: <3FCCB6F9.4020902@visi.com> References: <20031201174635.A13943@baker.space.umn.edu> <1070373501.23411.9.camel@unixws1> <3FCCB6F9.4020902@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031202212549.5a94e998.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:59:53 -0600 Sam MacDonald wrote: > > A radial arm saw (one of my favorite wood working tools by the way) > by Delta has a 14 inch blade and a 3 horse motor, it produces about > 3400 rpm. I would not want t be in the way if that blade comes off > the spindle. At least it would _not_ go in the direction of the > user if it did. > Sam, you may want to rethink this.... A blade that comes off would most definately go towards you. The teeth push the debris away from you, which means that the rotation of the blade above the material will surely go straight towards you. Which is why you see many professional wood workers wearing leather aprons. Not only is it heavier and protects against heavy debris possibly hitting them, but it will also help to protect their front sides should an overhead blade drop from the spindle and spin towards them. Come to think of it, even a table saw blade will go in the direction of the person operating it as well. =\ -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue Dec 2 22:39:17 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. In-Reply-To: <3FCC2D45.1090001@comcast.net> References: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> <3FCC2D45.1090001@comcast.net> Message-ID: Todd Young writes: > If I remember correctly, your WWW directory and all subdirectories and > files should be chmod 755 (rwxr-xr-x), I've changed ownership of the > /var/www directory from root.root to joeblow.joeblow (or whatever your > user name is). Mine is chmod 2775 owner root.wheel, mostly (except a lot of the directories in it are owned by different users, and most are in group wwwadmin). Works fine, has for years. Except that it has to be readable by the web server, I'm not aware of any stringent requirements on the protection or ownership of web directories. -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Dec 2 22:54:17 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. In-Reply-To: References: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> <3FCC2D45.1090001@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FCD6C79.4080301@comcast.net> OK, I've been playing with Linux for a year, I was baptized on Irix(for 4 years).....why the extra digit in the permissions below, specifically the 2? I thought it was "user-group-everyone", what's the fourth place for? Thanks. David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Mine is chmod 2775 owner root.wheel, mostly (except a lot of the > directories in it are owned by different users, and most are in group > wwwadmin). Works fine, has for years. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at cdf123.com Tue Dec 2 21:45:39 2003 From: cdf123 at cdf123.com (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] usfamily email problem Message-ID: <1070423139.2345.39.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Is anyone using a usfamily dialup account? I built a new computer for my mom this year, and loaded SuSE 8.2 on it. She's semi-tech-savvy and was really interested in it. So far she's been doing great. But, (you knew it was coming) usfamily is not delivering her emails anymore. She still has her old 233/win98 machine with Outlook Express, and that still works. I initially setup kmail, and it never received any mail at all. I tried evolution next, and it worked while I was there, but only for the emails that I had sent from a ssh connection from my home. I tried everything that I thought it could be. I tried different user names to log in with (some with the @usfamily.(net|com) and then without), and all of them worked to log in, but none had mail. I tried different combos for SSL, changed the server from .net to .com and back, no errors, but no emails either. I set up the Outlook machine to leave the mail on the server. Had her email herself some documents from work (about a meg worth), we checked the account from Outlook and everything downloaded fine. I used the putty telnet client to check to see if the messages were still there, everything looked good. We booted up the SuSE machine, logged in, checked for mail, and the messages were gone. Is SuSE downloading the messages before I get a chance to? Or did the usfamily dialup installer set something weird for Outlook that I haven't been able to find/duplicate with kmail/evolution? I haven't used SuSE much, as I prefer Mandrake. I'm debating rebuilding the machine with Mandrake 9.2 so I can get a more familiar setup. Anyone has any ideas on what it could be, or anything else to check? Thanks all, -- Chris Frederick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 2 23:11:46 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: <20031202212549.5a94e998.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031201174635.A13943@baker.space.umn.edu> <1070373501.23411.9.camel@unixws1> <3FCCB6F9.4020902@visi.com> <20031202212549.5a94e998.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3FCD7092.20903@visi.com> You are correct, except for 1 thing. The "Delta" blade guard is designed to let ("let" is the wrong word) the blade exit the back of the guard rather than the front even if the saw bucks "up". At least that's what the Delta rep said when I asked at the tool show. In any case CD ROM drives shouldn't be a consumer hazard. Is it greed that makes companies build and sell things knowing they are not safe? For myself I wont buy anything that could harm my Son or Daughter. Don't get me wrong my Son has a baseball bat and he has made a mistake with it. But when it comes to a machine I draw the line, I'm the parent I can do that. :-) Sam. Shawn wrote: >On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:59:53 -0600 >Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > >>A radial arm saw (one of my favorite wood working tools by the way) >>by Delta has a 14 inch blade and a 3 horse motor, it produces about >>3400 rpm. I would not want t be in the way if that blade comes off >>the spindle. At least it would _not_ go in the direction of the >>user if it did. >> >> >> > >Sam, you may want to rethink this.... A blade that comes off would >most definately go towards you. The teeth push the debris away from >you, which means that the rotation of the blade above the material >will surely go straight towards you. Which is why you see many >professional wood workers wearing leather aprons. Not only is it >heavier and protects against heavy debris possibly hitting them, but >it will also help to protect their front sides should an overhead >blade drop from the spindle and spin towards them. > >Come to think of it, even a table saw blade will go in the direction >of the person operating it as well. =\ > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Tue Dec 2 23:53:43 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! In-Reply-To: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com>; from whagemeyer@ssgix.com on Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 05:40:53PM -0600 References: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> Message-ID: <20031202235343.C19459@real-time.com> On 12/02 05:40 , Wynn Hagemeyer wrote: > Do any of these cars have Linux in them? they do when I haul my computer parts in them. I buy big cars because they help me move lots of big monitors easily. :) http://www.redchrome.org/desk.htm Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From isla0005 at umn.edu Tue Dec 2 21:51:43 2003 From: isla0005 at umn.edu (Mohammed W Islam) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] easy to use web content manager Message-ID: <200312030351.hB33phGl017825@fantasy.software.umn.edu> using Mod-perl/Mason there are Mason-CM, brickolage, openthought and others that could be used for small to large scale. Using Php there are Php-nuke and others that could also do content management. see http://www.masonhq.com/about/apps.html http://www.phpnuke.org if this is too complex for you, I would be interested to set it up for a payment. Apu On 2 Dec 2003, Wayne Johnson wrote: > drupal.org > > Raymond Norton said: > > I need to find an open source, easy to set up / easy to use web content > > manager. I tried to setup WebGui a year ago, but had server troubles. > > I had someone working on a Cold Fusion solution, but he wasn't able to > > get it done, so we are looking for something like WebGui again. > > > > > > I would like it to support multiple users, be mysql driven, and if > > possible, not look too blocky. > > > > > > I would be glad to ask this question on a more appropriate news group, > > but not sure what that would be. > > > > > > Raymond > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Wed Dec 3 00:37:07 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. References: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> <3FCC2D45.1090001@comcast.net> <3FCD6C79.4080301@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FCD8493.2050609@cleosci.com> The 4th bit is used in cases such as ftp where you want to temporarily connected user to have the same writes as the owner for the duration of the connection. You may notice sometimes that permissions are listed as: - r - x r - s r - - That is where the "s" comes in. The logged in user will temporarily have the read and execute group rights. Now, the 4000 value would put the "S" permission in the user place. The 2000 value puts it in the group place, while the 1000 value is something completely different -- the sticky bit "T" which means that this file cannot be deleted without some effort. That feature is arcane. Garrett Todd Young wrote: > OK, I've been playing with Linux for a year, I was baptized on > Irix(for 4 years).....why the extra digit in the permissions below, > specifically the 2? I thought it was "user-group-everyone", what's the > fourth place for? Thanks. > > David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > >> Mine is chmod 2775 owner root.wheel, mostly (except a lot of the >> directories in it are owned by different users, and most are in group >> wwwadmin). Works fine, has for years. > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gsker at tcfreenet.org Wed Dec 3 09:27:43 2003 From: gsker at tcfreenet.org (Gerry) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ACL on ext2 Message-ID: Has anyone succeeded in getting ACL (access control lists) working on RedHat9 (or the like) on an ext2 or ext3 filesystem? The options were in the kernel as far as I can tell, but it looks like the patch is necessary too? http://acl.bestbits.at/ How about trustees? http://trustees.sourceforge.net/ Gerry -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@tcfreenet.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Dec 3 10:08:37 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! In-Reply-To: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Wynn Hagemeyer wrote: > Do any of these cars have Linux in them? Mine did for a while. I saw some "Sparc on board" window signs on eBay, which gave me the idea to run an SS20 (running Linux!) in my car. It was fun for a while, but I took it out when the weather turned cold. Now I only have Linux in my car when I bring a laptop with. Keep in mind the audience you're addressing. ;) Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From burns at runbox.com Wed Dec 3 11:17:11 2003 From: burns at runbox.com (Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Where's the DEAD HORSE notice? Message-ID: On another list that I'm on, the list owner declares DEAD HORSE threads by adding DEAD HORSE to the subject line. Continue after that point, and you're off the list. Seems like a good plan. That's my (OT) 2 cents on the subject of OT subjects. Randy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Wed Dec 3 11:18:00 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Solaris? Message-ID: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Sorry for the OT post, but this is the first place I think of for this question. I recently became the proud owner of 2 Sunfire V120's. Without too much of a headache, I put Debian woody on one of em, but I'd like to keep Solaris on the other so I can play with it. Unfortunately, these didn't come with the original CD's or the root passwords to the current version of Solaris running on them. I'd like to reinstall Solaris, so I'm wondering if anyone has a CD of Solaris they no longer need? Doesn't have to be the most recent version, mostly doing this to pad the resume. Otherwise, does anyone know if booting into singe user mode is possible to reset the root password similar to linux init=/bin/bash on Linux? Thanks, Jsoh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Wed Dec 3 11:31:27 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Where's the DEAD HORSE notice? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FCE1DEF.6090707@comcast.net> Sounds like a plan to me. Another list I'm on, if the "thread" goes too far off base, people are asked to take it "off list". Burns wrote: > On another list that I'm on, the list owner declares DEAD HORSE threads by adding DEAD HORSE to the subject line. Continue after that point, and you're off the list. Seems like a good plan. > > That's my (OT) 2 cents on the subject of OT subjects. > > Randy -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris at alpha.twp-llc.com Wed Dec 3 08:48:37 2003 From: chris at alpha.twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help installing Request Tracker (RT) Digest-MD5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >>> Gerry 12/02/03 10:35AM >>> > So, Chris, try this -- > > export LANG=en_US > perl -MCPAN -e"install Digest::MD5" > > And let us know how far you get! This appears to be the fix. Everything installed perfectly after that! Now I'm having an issue with Apache, but that's my problem. I have to either set up another virtual domain and register the name, or get rt to work in a subdirectory. (Right now it spews text full of %# and <& tags all over the place. Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Wed Dec 3 11:54:15 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Solaris? In-Reply-To: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <3FCE2347.4050808@visi.com> I can't help you on the disks and its been a while since I reset the root password on a Sun box. The good news is that it is possible, the bad news is that you probably need the install disk to reset the password. As I recall (Sun's site should have the specifics) you hold down the Option-A key during boot to get it to drop into the hardware monitor, tell it to boot from the install CD, exit to a shell, reset the password, drop back into the monitor and boot from the hard disk. To change the password I think I edited /etc/shadow to set it to blank and then used passwd after rebooting. Good luck. --rick Josh Trutwin wrote: >Sorry for the OT post, but this is the first place I think of for this question. > >I recently became the proud owner of 2 Sunfire V120's. Without too much of a headache, I put Debian woody on one of em, but I'd like to keep Solaris on the other so I can play with it. Unfortunately, these didn't come with the original CD's or the root passwords to the current version of Solaris running on them. I'd like to reinstall Solaris, so I'm wondering if anyone has a CD of Solaris they no longer need? Doesn't have to be the most recent version, mostly doing this to pad the resume. > >Otherwise, does anyone know if booting into singe user mode is possible to reset the root password similar to linux init=/bin/bash on Linux? > >Thanks, > >Jsoh > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erick at nixbrain.com Wed Dec 3 11:43:05 2003 From: erick at nixbrain.com (Erick Stohr) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Solaris? In-Reply-To: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <3FCE20A9.3080606@nixbrain.com> Josh Trutwin wrote: > Sorry for the OT post, but this is the first place I think of for this question. > > I recently became the proud owner of 2 Sunfire V120's. Without too much of a headache, I put Debian woody on one of em, but I'd like to keep Solaris on the other so I can play with it. Unfortunately, these didn't come with the original CD's or the root passwords to the current version of Solaris running on them. I'd like to reinstall Solaris, so I'm wondering if anyone has a CD of Solaris they no longer need? Doesn't have to be the most recent version, mostly doing this to pad the resume. > > Otherwise, does anyone know if booting into singe user mode is possible to reset the root password similar to linux init=/bin/bash on Linux? > > Thanks, > > Jsoh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > I have Solaris 8 on CD (3 CD set I believe) and possibly Solaris 9 from when I had a Sparc Ultra 2. I live in Burnsville. Erick -- Erick Stohr Burnsville, MN 612-554-8287 erick@enrwebdev.com erick@nixbrain.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mjn at UMN.EDU Wed Dec 3 11:53:31 2003 From: mjn at UMN.EDU (mjn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Procmail question... Message-ID: I have an account on a Groupwise box which I have set to delegate all mail which hits it to another account which I can filter with Procmail. The problem is that this delegate function (there is nothing like .forward on Groupwise) does some serious damamge to the message headers...it acts more like a forward than a .forward. When a message comes in, it is mangled to this: FROM: "Mike Neuharth" TO: mjn@umn.edu Subject: Random subject-Delegated >>> username 12/02/03 14:51 >>> txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt Things to note in the above text: ->The FROM address shows up as my account on the groupwise system and not the /original/ sender. ->The "username" contained within the line starting ">>>" is the username of the original sender. ->Subject has "-Delegated" appended to it by the Groupwise system Is there a way for me, with Procmail, pull out "username", attach an @groupwise.system.com to it, and then replace the FROM: string in the message with that concotion...so the message comes out looking like this: FROM: username@groupwise.system.com TO: mjn@umn.edu Subject: Random subject >>> username 12/02/03 14:51 >>> txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt Anyone know how/if i can do this? -- _______________________________________________ Mike Neuharth ADCS Technology Specialist http://www.umn.edu/adcs =============================================== E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com _______________________________________________ "What is important, it seems to me, is not so much to defend a culture whose existence has never kept a man from going hungry, as to extract, from what is called culture, ideas whose compelling force is identical with that of hunger." -Antonin Artaud _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Wed Dec 3 11:52:35 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! In-Reply-To: References: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> Message-ID: <20031203175235.GG8307@autonomous.tv> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Dec 3 11:54:34 2003 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Solaris? In-Reply-To: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: Hey, On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > I'd like to reinstall Solaris, so I'm wondering if anyone has a CD of > Solaris they no longer need? Solaris is a free download from Sun's website. http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/binaries/get.html > Otherwise, does anyone know if booting into singe user mode is possible > to reset the root password similar to linux init=/bin/bash on Linux? You're supposed to boot into single-user mode off the CD, then mount your / and edit /etc/shadow. Not that that helps, except it means you can download just the installation CD and do that. -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Dec 3 12:09:10 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: <20031202170020.F3087@real-time.com> References: <20031202170020.F3087@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031203120910.A16346@pchelka.space.umn.edu> On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 05:00:20PM -0600, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > On 12/02 04:29 , Matt Murphy wrote: > > It could be stealthy, at first glance it's one of those goofy aftermarket bumpers, but hit the right switch and the SUV in front of you goes a rollin' over. > > I always thought it would be a good idea to have heavy-duty spring-loaded > bumpers on cars, just like you see on older European railroad cars. I > suspect the reason cars aren't generally fitted this way, is because: > > 1. it would add to the cost, and cheaper is usually considered to be better > 2. the car companies make an outrageous fortune by selling you replacement > parts that cost a lot of money, and only fit one particular model year and > vehicle. They love crumple zones; it means they can sell you a good chunk > of a new car! Actually, spring loaded bumpers would make cars (especially small cars) considerably more dangerous. This may be counter-intuitive, but crumple zones really are your friend. WARNING: I am going go off on another physics rant. If you are not into this kind of stuff stop reading immediately, or your eyes might glaze over and steam might come out of your ears (or worse). Car collisions are dangerous to passengers for several reasons. The first danger time is right at the instant of collision. In a collision the total momentum (mass times velocity) is conserved. This means that sum of the initial momentum of the cars is equal to the sum of the final momentum of the two cars : m1 v1i + m2 v2i = m1 v1f + m2 v2f . The danger for the passenger is from this quick change in velocity. The change in velocity leads to forces on the passenger (which are provided by the seat, seat belts, air bag, dashboard, etc.) that are equal to the change in momentum divided by the time it takes for the collision to occur. Its in this time for the collision to occur that the crumple zone shows the first part of its value. By crumpling, the car increases the time the collision takes, which decreases the size of the forces exerted on the person. So by crumpling, the car decreases the damage done to passengers by the original collision. The next place where crumple zones help you, and spring-loaded bumpers would kill you is with kinetic energy. In collision kinetic energy (one half the mass times the speed squared) may or may not be conserved. If kinetic energy is conserved the collision is called elastic, and if not it is called inelastic. In an elastic collision the kinetic energy that is lost is changed into other forms (heat, light, sound, etc.). The most possible kinetic energy is lost if two objects stick to each other after a collision - this is called a totally inelastic collision. An example of an elastic collision is when two billiard balls collide, while two balls of clay colliding and sticking together would be a totally inelastic collision. So how does this relate to car collisions? Well, I would argue that you want car collisions to be as inelastic as possible. In an inelastic collision much of the kinetic energy is absorbed by the bodies of the cars. This leaves the cars with less speed for an secondary collisions that might occur after the first collision, and also makes it less likely that the cars might flip over. This is where crumple zones on cars really shine. The crumple zone will absorb a huge amount of kinetic energy. On the flip side, this is also why spring-loaded bumpers are an awful idea. In a perfectly elastic collision with a small car hitting a larger car, the small car would often move off *faster* after the collision. (I won't bore you with the math on that here, but its like the old trick of dropping a tennis ball on top of a basketball. After the basketball hits the ground, the tennis ball goes flying off extremely fast.) Having the small car fly off faster will increase damage done to the passenger by the original collision, and will also make secondary collisions much more dangerous and increase the chance of flipping over. Anyway, the point is while crumple zones do make it more likely that there will be an expensive body-shop bill waiting for you after a collision, they also make it much more likely that you you will walk away from the collision. While I am at it let me put my two cents in on the big car / little car collision problem. The big advantage for the passengers in the big cars are goes back to momentum. In a totally inelastic collision, the final velocity of the two cars stuck together will be closer to the initial velocity of the larger car, which means that the passengers of the larger car will have smaller forces applied to them at the initial collision. (This is actually a problem that my students had to do a month or so ago.) Of course this ignores the roll-over risks. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Dec 3 12:24:09 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Solaris? In-Reply-To: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031203122409.B16346@pchelka.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 11:18:00AM -0600, Josh Trutwin wrote: > Otherwise, does anyone know if booting into singe user mode is > possible to reset the root password similar to linux > init=/bin/bash on Linux? Use a bootable CDROM (is there a Sparc Knoppix CD ? - if not use the Debian rescue CD) to mount the Solaris disk, and then remove the password for root. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris at alpha.twp-llc.com Wed Dec 3 11:59:35 2003 From: chris at alpha.twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Dead horse? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think the [OT] is enough of a tag for me. I get the digest anyway, so all the OT's stand out like sore thumbs. Very easy to ignore without stamping out a discussion that's gone too far. They would also stop sooner if people would ignore them instead of replying. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Wed Dec 3 12:45:00 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Procmail question... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FCE2F2C.6010700@druswanderings.net> mjn wrote: > > Anyone know how/if i can do this? > formmail is your friend :-) -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Dec 3 12:31:34 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Procmail question... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031203183134.GC28121@fandre.com> On Wed, 03 Dec 2003, mjn wrote: > > I have an account on a Groupwise box which I have set to delegate all mail > which hits it to another account which I can filter with Procmail. > > The problem is that this delegate function (there is nothing like .forward > on Groupwise) does some serious damamge to the message headers...it acts > more like a forward than a .forward. > > When a message comes in, it is mangled to this: > > FROM: "Mike Neuharth" > TO: mjn@umn.edu > Subject: Random subject-Delegated > > >>> username 12/02/03 14:51 >>> > txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt > > > Things to note in the above text: > > ->The FROM address shows up as my account on the groupwise system and not > the /original/ sender. > ->The "username" contained within the line starting ">>>" is the username > of the original sender. > ->Subject has "-Delegated" appended to it by the Groupwise system > > Is there a way for me, with Procmail, pull out "username", attach an > @groupwise.system.com to it, and then replace the FROM: string in the > message with that concotion...so the message comes out looking like this: > > FROM: username@groupwise.system.com > TO: mjn@umn.edu > Subject: Random subject > > >>> username 12/02/03 14:51 >>> > txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt > > > Anyone know how/if i can do this? You can always write a shell or perl script to process the mail, and use procmail to pipe it to this script. :0 | processgroupwise.sh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Wed Dec 3 12:51:54 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Solaris? Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B45C@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Trutwin [mailto:josh@trutwins.homeip.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 11:18 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Solaris? > > running on them. I'd like to reinstall Solaris, so I'm > wondering if anyone has a CD of Solaris they no longer need? > Doesn't have to be the most recent version, mostly doing this > to pad the resume. You can download 9 for SPARC here http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/binaries/get.html#sparc _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drake at math.umn.edu Wed Dec 3 13:27:46 2003 From: drake at math.umn.edu (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Procmail question... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031203192746.GA6331@math.umn.edu> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gsker at tcfreenet.org Wed Dec 3 13:40:17 2003 From: gsker at tcfreenet.org (Gerald Skerbitz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Procmail question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031203133646.S76966-100000@tcfreenet.org> Mike, I recommend you change it to a Groupwise Forward instead of a Delegate, and then you can use metamail and/or formail to split it back up into a real message attached to another message. -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@tcfreenet.org On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, mjn wrote: > > I have an account on a Groupwise box which I have set to delegate all mail > which hits it to another account which I can filter with Procmail. > > The problem is that this delegate function (there is nothing like .forward > on Groupwise) does some serious damamge to the message headers...it acts > more like a forward than a .forward. > > When a message comes in, it is mangled to this: > > FROM: "Mike Neuharth" > TO: mjn@umn.edu > Subject: Random subject-Delegated > > >>> username 12/02/03 14:51 >>> > txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt > > > Things to note in the above text: > > ->The FROM address shows up as my account on the groupwise system and not > the /original/ sender. > ->The "username" contained within the line starting ">>>" is the username > of the original sender. > ->Subject has "-Delegated" appended to it by the Groupwise system > > Is there a way for me, with Procmail, pull out "username", attach an > @groupwise.system.com to it, and then replace the FROM: string in the > message with that concotion...so the message comes out looking like this: > > FROM: username@groupwise.system.com > TO: mjn@umn.edu > Subject: Random subject > > >>> username 12/02/03 14:51 >>> > txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt txt > > > Anyone know how/if i can do this? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Mike Neuharth > ADCS Technology Specialist > http://www.umn.edu/adcs > =============================================== > E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu > Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com > _______________________________________________ > "What is important, it seems to me, is not so much to defend a culture > whose existence has never kept a man from going hungry, as to extract, > from what is called culture, ideas whose compelling force is identical > with that of hunger." -Antonin Artaud > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hackel at walkingfish.com Wed Dec 3 14:25:47 2003 From: hackel at walkingfish.com (Ryan Hayle) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Procmail question... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FCE46CB.1010104@walkingfish.com> mjn wrote: > I have an account on a Groupwise box which I have set to delegate all mail > which hits it to another account which I can filter with Procmail. > > The problem is that this delegate function (there is nothing like .forward > on Groupwise) does some serious damamge to the message headers...it acts > more like a forward than a .forward. Use fetchmail to pull the messages from your Groupwise server via IMAP, then send it through procmail. That's what I do in CLA, I would imagine your groupwise has imap or pop3 enabled also. :) Ryan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Dec 3 14:31:52 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! In-Reply-To: <20031203175235.GG8307@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Spencer Butler wrote: > Jima is not alone in this area. I have, in the past, ran more than one > linux distro in the vehicle while driving. Linux tends to come in very > handy no matter what environment you may be in. > > http://gallery.autonomous.tv/work/Mobile_RF/Mobile_RFv2/ Man, that thing's a better platform than the last time I was in it. Glad to see you got rid of that pesky seat. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Wed Dec 3 14:55:56 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FCE4DDC.6060700@comcast.net> Here's a page with a member of another list I'm on. He's putting a media PC in his Audi. Oh, and it runs Linux of course. http://www.newtsplace.com/~newt/images/?mode=album&album=Audi%2Fmedia_pc Jima wrote: > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Spencer Butler wrote: > >>Jima is not alone in this area. I have, in the past, ran more than one >>linux distro in the vehicle while driving. Linux tends to come in very >>handy no matter what environment you may be in. >> >>http://gallery.autonomous.tv/work/Mobile_RF/Mobile_RFv2/ > > > Man, that thing's a better platform than the last time I was in it. Glad > to see you got rid of that pesky seat. > > Jima -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tmarble at info9.net Wed Dec 3 14:57:44 2003 From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Solaris? In-Reply-To: References: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <3FCE4E48.1010104@info9.net> Yaron wrote: > Solaris is a free download from Sun's website. > http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/binaries/get.html Josh, since it sounds like you are kicking the tires perhaps you might be interested in trying the next release of Solaris (following Solaris 9.... marketing has not yet decided on a name). Apparently you can try recent builds of Solaris (free for non-commercial use, $99 otherwise) with the Solaris Express program: http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/solaris-express/sol_index.html I haven't tried Solaris Express (yet) but I have been playing with "the next release of Solaris" and it has some neat features... If you (or anyone else) has feedback about Solaris Express I'd be curious to hear it... That being said I'm running debian on my (personal) machines. For other Solaris documentation (beyond the links you get from the above) see also: http://developer.sun.com/prodtech/solaris/x86/index.html Regards, --Tom disclaimer: my paycheck has the SUNW logo on it. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Tue Dec 2 23:28:16 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: <3FCD7092.20903@visi.com> References: <20031201174635.A13943@baker.space.umn.edu> <1070373501.23411.9.camel@unixws1> <3FCCB6F9.4020902@visi.com> <20031202212549.5a94e998.sfertch@real-time.com> <3FCD7092.20903@visi.com> Message-ID: <1070429296.21742.15.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Tue Dec 2 23:22:25 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: big dumb cars In-Reply-To: <20031202165608.E3087@real-time.com> References: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> <20031202165608.E3087@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1070428944.21742.10.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Dec 3 15:40:57 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gentoo's turn? Message-ID: <20031203214057.GA6989@mail.el-swifto.com> http://lists.netsys.com/pipermail/full-disclosure/2003-December/014440.html -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org Wed Dec 3 15:45:33 2003 From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph Key) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Solaris? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001f01c3b9e6$c7b6d2d0$0436a8c0@Kurama> You can also use the NetBSD install disks to reset the root password. Joseph Key > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn- > linux.org] On Behalf Of Yaron > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 11:55 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [OT] Solaris? > > Hey, > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > > I'd like to reinstall Solaris, so I'm wondering if anyone has a CD of > > Solaris they no longer need? > > Solaris is a free download from Sun's website. > http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/binaries/get.html > > > Otherwise, does anyone know if booting into singe user mode is possible > > to reset the root password similar to linux init=/bin/bash on Linux? > > You're supposed to boot into single-user mode off the CD, then mount your > / and edit /etc/shadow. Not that that helps, except it means you can > download just the installation CD and do that. > > > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Wed Dec 3 15:44:23 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B46A@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Callum Lerwick [mailto:seg@haxxed.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 11:28 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM > > > > In any case CD ROM drives shouldn't be a consumer hazard. > Is it greed > > that makes companies build and sell things knowing they are > not safe? > > For myself I wont buy anything that could harm my Son or Daughter. > > I think the lesson here, is with a ~40x or faster CDROM, its > probably a > good idea to put the machine somewhere where the CDROM isn't at eye > level. Exploding CD's do happen... > You know, aside from the potential bodily harm, it would be richly ironic if the one and only backup someone had was on a cd that blew up during the restore. Then you pretty much know murphy has your number. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Dec 3 15:56:42 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B46A@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 rware@interplastic.com wrote: > You know, aside from the potential bodily harm, it would be richly ironic if > the one and only backup someone had was on a cd that blew up during the > restore. Then you pretty much know murphy has your number. Okay, time to stock up on 4X CD-ROMs! Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Dec 3 16:11:45 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Procmail question... In-Reply-To: <20031203183134.GC28121@fandre.com> References: <20031203183134.GC28121@fandre.com> Message-ID: <16334.24481.358005.216710@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Maybe the easiest way to do this would be to use procmail to set an environment variable to the username (see the discussion of \/ in the procmailrc man page). Then pipe the message into formail, which will do the header-munging for you, and then save it: Something like the following (completely untested): :0:b * ^From: * username: \/ | formail -i"From: $MATCH@groupwise.com" >> $DEFAULT _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel_cd at yahoo.com Wed Dec 3 16:18:59 2003 From: joel_cd at yahoo.com (Joel Dick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B46A@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <20031203221859.89540.qmail@web13810.mail.yahoo.com> > You know, aside from the potential bodily harm, it would be richly > ironic if > the one and only backup someone had was on a cd that blew up during the > restore. Then you pretty much know murphy has your number. Shhhhh!!!!! Don't say that, I just did a backup last night because my hard drive is making the noisy clicks of death (eyes cds nervously) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Dec 3 16:46:18 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312032246.hB3MkIS09194@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Pentium II 400 Processors I have 7 Pentium II 400mhz Processors. With heat sync's Pulls from Compaq DeskPro EN machines. Not tested. I have more but want to be sure they don't die and need to be replaced. I don't want anyone to get a dead processor. I don't know the stepping codes. $5.00 to a good home. Makes great art work for your favorite hardware loving friend! eMail smac@visi.com for more info. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Dec 3 16:50:30 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312032250.hB3MoUc09303@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Pentium II 233mhz Processors I have 1 Pentium II 233mhz processors. With heat sync Pulls from Compaq DeskPro EN machines. Not tested. I have more but want to be sure it isn't dead and need to be replaced. I don't want anyone to get a dead processor. I don't know the stepping codes. $3.00 to a good home. Makes great art work for your favorite hardware loving friend! And Christmas is comming! http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Dec 3 17:34:08 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312032334.hB3NY8N10026@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Network Adapters I have 4 Compaq NC3121 10 100 NICS. The Compaq NC3121 Fast Ethernet NIC provides a Wake on LAN wol feature. It has the wire for the WOL feature. I have more but again I don't want anyone to get a dead NIC. $5.00 to a good home. Contact Sam at smac@visi.com Linux An rpm can be found at this site! http: h18000.www1.hp.com support files networking nics put the slashes in Compaq NC3121 Fast Ethernet NICs.html put underscores in this line I had to break the link in to parts it's to long and had whacks in it. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rnelson at ronspace.com Wed Dec 3 17:53:15 2003 From: rnelson at ronspace.com (Ron Nelson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Solaris? In-Reply-To: References: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1070495595.3fce776b5e14b@ronspace.org> One thing to keep in mind: if disk suite drive/volume mirroring is enabled, you need to mount and edit the /etc/shadow on both partitions. Ron Quoting Yaron : > Hey, > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > > I'd like to reinstall Solaris, so I'm wondering if anyone has a CD of > > Solaris they no longer need? > > Solaris is a free download from Sun's website. > http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/binaries/get.html > > > Otherwise, does anyone know if booting into singe user mode is possible > > to reset the root password similar to linux init=/bin/bash on Linux? > > You're supposed to boot into single-user mode off the CD, then mount your > / and edit /etc/shadow. Not that that helps, except it means you can > download just the installation CD and do that. > > > > -Yaron -- ronspace.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Wed Dec 3 18:34:27 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Free PII 350MHz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Free to good home: One Pentium II CPU rated at 350MHz. Never overclocked. Removed from working IBM Netfinity 5000 server because we upgraded to PIII at 550MHz. Heat sink included, and no fan is needed. Stepping SL2U3 if it matters. Intel says that stepping has 100MHz bus and 512K L2 cache (at 175MHz). The CPU is in a Slot 1 (SECC) package. You will have to pick up, or send $5 to me by PayPal for shipping. Chris Schumann, Partner Third Wave Partnership, LLC Office 612-920-4364 722 W 66 St, PMB 302 Fax 612-677-3003 Minneapolis, MN 55423 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at MarkCourtney.com Wed Dec 3 18:57:15 2003 From: tclug at MarkCourtney.com (Mark Courtney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail time warp Message-ID: <33124.192.168.2.224.1070456235.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> How do I get the time on my e-mails to be right? It seems kinda strange getting e-mails from the future. The time on the server is set right if I issue a `date` command, but the message in Squirellmail are 12 hours off. The 12 hour time warp is also in effect if I use Ximian Evolution. I'm using RH 7.2 with the default sendmail (and all the patches - no flames please). Can somebody please tell me how to remedy this? I've googled to no avail. Thanks LUG'ers Mark Courtney http://www.MarkCourtney.com __ +|oo|+ +|oo|+ || || || || || || _ || _ \\_||_// | [] | | || | / [] \ \______/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Wed Dec 3 20:35:27 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YDL and Airport? In-Reply-To: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1070505327.25594.5.camel@pc-00070.7penguins.com> has anyone used an ibook with yellowdob 3.0? I can't seem to get the airport card to work. it will get an ip address and report signal, but when i try to ping out from that interface (eth1) it fails... i have tried both encrypted and nonencrypted... what could i be missing? tia Christopher _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Dec 3 20:41:22 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] odd mailboxes Message-ID: I'm running a sendmail server, and every once in awhile I end up with files that look like: BOGUS.validusername.xom in /var/spool/mail. Not every user has one, but many users have both thier own mailbox and one of these BOGUS. boxes. cat'ing through them shows them to be valid mboxes. Any idea what that is? -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lesk3 at earthlink.net Wed Dec 3 20:31:58 2003 From: lesk3 at earthlink.net (les klein) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] calendar function Message-ID: HI-- I am a neophyte... are there any palm pilot devices that have a month at a glance calendar function? thanks, les _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Wed Dec 3 21:08:01 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM In-Reply-To: References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B46A@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <20031203210801.179c8b8c.sfertch@real-time.com> On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:56:42 -0600 (CST) Jima wrote: > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 rware@interplastic.com wrote: > > You know, aside from the potential bodily harm, it would be richly > > ironic if the one and only backup someone had was on a cd that > > blew up during the restore. Then you pretty much know murphy has > > your number. > > Okay, time to stock up on 4X CD-ROMs! > Dang! You mean those 1X CD's won't survive my Sony DVD/CD-R/W drive????!!! -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Wed Dec 3 21:38:57 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail time warp In-Reply-To: <33124.192.168.2.224.1070456235.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> References: <33124.192.168.2.224.1070456235.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> Message-ID: <20031203213837.C43157@unix18.sihope.com> Is your timezone set right? Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Mark Courtney wrote: > How do I get the time on my e-mails to be right? It seems kinda strange > getting e-mails from the future. The time on the server is set right if I > issue a `date` command, but the message in Squirellmail are 12 hours off. > The 12 hour time warp is also in effect if I use Ximian Evolution. > > I'm using RH 7.2 with the default sendmail (and all the patches - no > flames please). > > Can somebody please tell me how to remedy this? I've googled to no avail. > > > Thanks LUG'ers > > > > Mark Courtney > > http://www.MarkCourtney.com > > __ > +|oo|+ > +|oo|+ > || > || > || > || > || > || > _ || _ > \\_||_// > | [] | > | || | > / [] \ > \______/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Wed Dec 3 21:44:59 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] odd mailboxes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031203213927.O43157@unix18.sihope.com> IIRC, this is Procmail's handiwork. I think if Procmail has a problem delivering into a user's mailbox (permissions, ownership, etc), it renames /var/mail/USER to /var/mail/BOGUS.USER, then creates a new (properly owned/permed) mailbox to deliver into. So those BOGUS.* probably have real mail in them that needs to be delivered. Ultimately you'll want to find out what's causing this - I think it gets logged to maillog or procmail's own log (if configured). Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Brian wrote: > I'm running a sendmail server, and every once in awhile I end up with > files that look like: > > BOGUS.validusername.xom > > in /var/spool/mail. Not every user has one, but many users have both > thier own mailbox and one of these BOGUS. boxes. cat'ing through them > shows them to be valid mboxes. Any idea what that is? > > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Dec 3 22:20:51 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] odd mailboxes In-Reply-To: <20031203213927.O43157@unix18.sihope.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Adam Maloney wrote: > I think if Procmail has a problem delivering into a user's mailbox > (permissions, ownership, etc), it renames /var/mail/USER to > /var/mail/BOGUS.USER, then creates a new (properly owned/permed) mailbox > to deliver into. Well, what do you know. ls -al shows the ownership of the BOGUS. files extremely fsck'd up. Props to procmail for fixing these! > So those BOGUS.* probably have real mail in them that needs to be > delivered. a quick cat operation will take care of that. Thanks for the help! -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Wed Dec 3 23:01:20 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YDL and Airport? In-Reply-To: <1070505327.25594.5.camel@pc-00070.7penguins.com>; from chris.smith@apigroupinc.com on Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 08:35:27PM -0600 References: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <1070505327.25594.5.camel@pc-00070.7penguins.com> Message-ID: <20031203230120.A32424@thinkunix.net> is there a firewall that's active by default on that system? if it's running a Linux 2.4.x kernel try this: # display current firewall rules iptables -L -n # to disable the firewall completely iptables -P INPUT ACCEPT iptables -P OUTPUT ACCEPT iptables -P FORWARD ACCEPT You'll have to look at yellodog's documentation for the proper way to disable the firewall, assuming that's the problem. Christopher Smith wrote: > has anyone used an ibook with yellowdob 3.0? > I can't seem to get the airport card to work. it will get an ip address > and report signal, but when i try to ping out from that interface (eth1) > it fails... i have tried both encrypted and nonencrypted... what could i > be missing? -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ston0235 at umn.edu Thu Dec 4 00:06:09 2003 From: ston0235 at umn.edu (Ian Stoner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] heavy processor use after lots of HD reads/writes Message-ID: <20031204000609.0cd771eb.ston0235@umn.edu> After I copy a large file (~30 megs) my processor activity shoots up to 100% for 10 to 15 seconds, and I can't use my system during that time. As the files get bigger, the amount of time the processor has to noodle also grows. If I copy a gigabyte file, my computer can be out of commission for 20 minutes. Is this normal behavior, or do I likely have something configured wrong? I'm using Debian Sarge, kernel 2.4.20, ext2 filesystem, and two IDE harddrives on my primary controller. The behavior seems to happen no matter where I'm copying from and to: one partition to another, one drive to another, or within the same partition. I didn't have these slowdowns back in Windows days, so I don't *think* it is purely a hardware issue. However, most of the things I do with linux that cause the problem (like writing decent metadata to ogg/mp3 files) are not things that I ever did in Windows, so it might be that back then I never asked my harddisks to do these things that they don't like doing... Thanks, Ian -- Ian Stoner Philosophy Department University of Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cncole at earthlink.net Thu Dec 4 00:26:04 2003 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] calendar function In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Both my Palm IIIxe and Kyocera 6035 do. It's a standard feature of the Palm OS. Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of les klein > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 8:32 PM > To: tclug-list@listserv.real-time.com > Subject: [TCLUG] calendar function > > > HI-- > > I am a neophyte... > > are there any palm pilot devices that have a month at a glance calendar > function? > > thanks, > les _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Dec 4 00:36:42 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Solaris? In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B45C@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B45C@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <20031204003642.140c3caf.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> > > running on them. I'd like to reinstall Solaris, so I'm > > wondering if anyone has a CD of Solaris they no longer need? > > Doesn't have to be the most recent version, mostly doing this > > to pad the resume. > > You can download 9 for SPARC here > http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/binaries/get.html#sparc Thanks everyone for all the useful posts, I think for $90 I'll get the sys admin edition that includes all the documentation, I'm really new to Solaris so that'll come in handy. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Thu Dec 4 03:04:09 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. References: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> <3FCC2D45.1090001@comcast.net> <3FCD6C79.4080301@comcast.net> Message-ID: <016101c3ba45$94318950$0201a8c0@brinstar> Todd Young writes: > OK, I've been playing with Linux for a year, I was baptized on > Irix(for 4 years).....why the extra digit in the permissions below, > specifically the 2? I thought it was "user-group-everyone", what's > the fourth place for? Thanks. The other explanation was unclear or incorrect, so I'll explain. The three bits in the fourth digit (as read from right to left) are S_ISUID (4), S_ISGID (2) and S_ISVTX (1), as defined by sys/stat.h. If the file is a regular file and ISUID or ISGID is set, then the file will run as the uid or gid, respectively, of the file owner when it is executed. Such executables are sometimes called suid or set-uid (or suid / set-gid). An example use would be the ping program. Only root may use raw sockets, so the ping program must be run as root. Thus the ping executable is owned by root and has the ISUID bit set. If the file is a directory and the ISVTX (sticky bit) is set, then users other than root may not delete or rename files (i.e. modify their directory entry) that are owned by a different user. This is useful for temporary directories such as /tmp. Without it, any user could rename or delete another user's temporary files, since everyone has write permissions on the directory. To my knowledge, the behavior of ISUID and ISGID on directories is not specified by POSIX. Certain operating systems use these bits to force new directory entries to have the same uid or gid as the parent directory. Setting ISVTX on regular files is implementation dependant. Some operating systems or file systems do not allow it. Others may use it for a special purpose. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu Dec 4 03:30:18 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. In-Reply-To: <3FCD6C79.4080301@comcast.net> References: <3FCC28C4.8060907@visi.com> <3FCC2D45.1090001@comcast.net> <3FCD6C79.4080301@comcast.net> Message-ID: [top-posting fixed] Todd Young writes: > David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Mine is chmod 2775 owner root.wheel, mostly (except a lot of the > > directories in it are owned by different users, and most are in group > > wwwadmin). Works fine, has for years. > OK, I've been playing with Linux for a year, I was baptized on > Irix(for 4 years).....why the extra digit in the permissions below, > specifically the 2? I thought it was "user-group-everyone", what's the > fourth place for? Thanks. It's different on files and directories. On a directory, the 2000 bit means that files and directories created within the directory will inherit the group association of the containing directory. Hence the wheel association and, if they have the correct umask, group write permission, will stick around. (The original question, as I read it, was specifically about the ownership and protection of /var/www, or whatever the web root is on the system.) -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Thu Dec 4 06:28:26 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] heavy processor use after lots of HD reads/writes In-Reply-To: <20031204000609.0cd771eb.ston0235@umn.edu> References: <20031204000609.0cd771eb.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: <20031204122826.GB9961@refried.org> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:06:09AM -0600, Ian Stoner wrote: > After I copy a large file (~30 megs) my processor activity shoots up to > 100% for 10 to 15 seconds, and I can't use my system during that time. Sounds like write caching without DMA enabled. Use hdparm to make sure that DMA is enabled on your drives. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Thu Dec 4 07:00:40 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Free PII 350MHz In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll take it! where are you at? On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:34:27 -0600, Chris Schumann wrote: > Free to good home: > > One Pentium II CPU rated at 350MHz. Never overclocked. Removed from > working > IBM Netfinity 5000 server because we upgraded to PIII at 550MHz. > > Heat sink included, and no fan is needed. Stepping SL2U3 if it matters. > Intel says that stepping has 100MHz bus and 512K L2 cache (at 175MHz). > The > CPU is in a Slot 1 (SECC) package. > > You will have to pick up, or send $5 to me by PayPal for shipping. > > Chris Schumann, Partner Third Wave Partnership, LLC > Office 612-920-4364 722 W 66 St, PMB 302 > Fax 612-677-3003 Minneapolis, MN 55423 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 4 07:25:06 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] heavy processor use after lots of HD reads/writes In-Reply-To: <20031204000609.0cd771eb.ston0235@umn.edu> References: <20031204000609.0cd771eb.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: <3FCF35B2.1090006@visi.com> Tell us about your hardware. Processor Memory Mother Board etc... Sam. Ian Stoner wrote: >After I copy a large file (~30 megs) my processor activity shoots up to >100% for 10 to 15 seconds, and I can't use my system during that time. >As the files get bigger, the amount of time the processor has to noodle >also grows. If I copy a gigabyte file, my computer can be out of >commission for 20 minutes. Is this normal behavior, or do I likely have >something configured wrong? > >I'm using Debian Sarge, kernel 2.4.20, ext2 filesystem, and two IDE >harddrives on my primary controller. The behavior seems to happen no >matter where I'm copying from and to: one partition to another, one >drive to another, or within the same partition. I didn't have these >slowdowns back in Windows days, so I don't *think* it is purely a >hardware issue. However, most of the things I do with linux that cause >the problem (like writing decent metadata to ogg/mp3 files) are not >things that I ever did in Windows, so it might be that back then I never >asked my harddisks to do these things that they don't like doing... > >Thanks, >Ian > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Thu Dec 4 07:56:00 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Portable MP3/Ogg player In-Reply-To: <20031201164816.GF1173@fandre.com> References: <20031201164816.GF1173@fandre.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:48:16 -0600, Clay Fandre wrote: > Anyone have the Neuros 128? I'm thinking about getting one since they > are only $99 now and can expand with the HD pack. They are suppose to > be offering Linux support soon too. Opinions? > Oh man - I took a look - they are offering the 128Mb unit and the 20 gig HD backpack for $229... !! Jokingly I mentioned it to Mrs. Fulcrum and much to my suprise she says - you should buy it... a reward for the total bathroom remodel I just finished (as if installing your own whirlpool tub isn't rewarding enuff!) So I took a look and started browsing the Neuros fourms - looks like ogg support is good and there's a 3rd party open source sync option build with Java. seems to work well from the reports. What have you found out? I'm interested too! On another note - what does everyone use under linux to rip/encode your cd library - I'm going ogg, and see that grip will rip and ogg stuff.... other options? I like auto look up for names artist etc.. tags are good too! > How about any other MP3/Ogg player? I'd like one without a hard-drive > since I do a lot of running I didn't think a HD would be the best bet. > I know iRiver has some non-HD models but they don't support Ogg. I'd > like something under $150, and that I can use with Linux. > > -- Clay > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Dec 4 08:37:19 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Portable MP3/Ogg player In-Reply-To: References: <20031201164816.GF1173@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031204143719.GA8012@fandre.com> On Thu, 04 Dec 2003, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Oh man - I took a look - they are offering the 128Mb unit and the 20 gig > HD backpack for $229... !! > Jokingly I mentioned it to Mrs. Fulcrum and much to my suprise she says - > you should buy it... a reward for the total bathroom remodel I just > finished (as if installing your own whirlpool tub isn't rewarding enuff!) > > So I took a look and started browsing the Neuros fourms - looks like ogg > support is good and there's a 3rd party open source sync option build with > Java. seems to work well from the reports. > > What have you found out? I'm interested too! > > On another note - what does everyone use under linux to rip/encode your cd > library - I'm going ogg, and see that grip will rip and ogg stuff.... > other options? I like auto look up for names artist etc.. tags are good > too! > I decided to go with the iRiver iFP-390T w/ 256Megs. They have it at BestBuy for $199 and I have a 10% off coupon. The Neuros was a little too big for my needs. (running, biking, etc.) iRiver is suppose to be releasing a firmware update that will enable it to play Ogg and also act as a storage device which will enable it to be used with Linux. Currently it requires the iRiver software to load songs. Here is the iRiver website with the Ogg news. Beware of the 100 series as they won't support Ogg. http://www.iriver.com/company/news_view.asp?idx=355 -- Clay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Thu Dec 4 08:13:45 2003 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Portable MP3/Ogg player In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 07:56:00 -0600 Johnny Fulcrum wrote: >On another note - what does everyone use under linux to >rip/encode your cd library - I'm going ogg, and see that >grip will rip and ogg stuff.... other options? I like >auto look up for names artist etc.. tags are good too! > I run KDE so I like the tkcOggRipper from theKompany. Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Dec 4 09:04:28 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] yum Message-ID: Good Morning TCLUG! Does anyone use 'yum'? If so, what do you use it for and what do you think of it? http://linux.duke.edu/projects/yum/ Docs, if you're interested: http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/General/yum_HOWTO/yum_HOWTO/ http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/General/yum_article/yum_article/ Troy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Thu Dec 4 09:06:50 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Portable MP3/Ogg player In-Reply-To: <20031204143719.GA8012@fandre.com> References: <20031201164816.GF1173@fandre.com> <20031204143719.GA8012@fandre.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 08:37:19 -0600, Clay Fandre wrote: > > On Thu, 04 Dec 2003, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > >> Oh man - I took a look - they are offering the 128Mb unit and the 20 gig >> HD backpack for $229... !! >> Jokingly I mentioned it to Mrs. Fulcrum and much to my suprise she says >> - >> you should buy it... a reward for the total bathroom remodel I just >> finished (as if installing your own whirlpool tub isn't rewarding >> enuff!) >> >> So I took a look and started browsing the Neuros fourms - looks like >> ogg >> support is good and there's a 3rd party open source sync option build >> with >> Java. seems to work well from the reports. >> >> What have you found out? I'm interested too! >> >> On another note - what does everyone use under linux to rip/encode your >> cd >> library - I'm going ogg, and see that grip will rip and ogg stuff.... >> other options? I like auto look up for names artist etc.. tags are >> good >> too! >> > > I decided to go with the iRiver iFP-390T w/ 256Megs. They have it at > BestBuy for $199 and I have a 10% off coupon. The Neuros was a little > too big for my needs. (running, biking, etc.) iRiver is suppose to be > releasing a firmware update that will enable it to play Ogg and also > act as a storage device which will enable it to be used with Linux. > Currently it requires the iRiver software to load songs. > > Here is the iRiver website with the Ogg news. Beware of the 100 series > as they won't support Ogg. > http://www.iriver.com/company/news_view.asp?idx=355 > Ohh... another one to consider... I've also hit upon the iriver karma (HD based though...) - Base station has rca out and ethernet! > -- Clay > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Thu Dec 4 09:07:01 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Free PII 350MHz In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll take it! where are you at? On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:34:27 -0600, Chris Schumann wrote: > Free to good home: > > One Pentium II CPU rated at 350MHz. Never overclocked. Removed from > working > IBM Netfinity 5000 server because we upgraded to PIII at 550MHz. > > Heat sink included, and no fan is needed. Stepping SL2U3 if it matters. > Intel says that stepping has 100MHz bus and 512K L2 cache (at 175MHz). > The > CPU is in a Slot 1 (SECC) package. > > You will have to pick up, or send $5 to me by PayPal for shipping. > > Chris Schumann, Partner Third Wave Partnership, LLC > Office 612-920-4364 722 W 66 St, PMB 302 > Fax 612-677-3003 Minneapolis, MN 55423 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Thu Dec 4 09:16:58 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] alternative perlhandler Message-ID: <009601c3ba79$a9071a50$4dae6742@DELL2> I am working on a web program that needs the following VirtualHost statment. It won't run and my error logs show "failed to resolve handler 'Apache::Registry'". I am running Apache 2.40, from what I can tell Apache::Registry is an Apache-1.3x and mod_perl 1.29 thing. What can I put in place of the PerlHandler statement so things will work properly with my version of Apache? I poked around on the web and installed another one, but it does not work. VirtualHost *> SetHandler perl-script PerlHandler Apache::Registry Options +ExecCGI DocumentRoot /opt/apache/www ServerName www.mycompany.com ServerAlias mycompany.com ErrorLog /opt/apache/logs/error-log CustomLog /opt/apache/logs/access-log SomeLogType Thanks in advance Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Dec 4 09:48:38 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] December TCLUG Meeting Message-ID: <20031204154838.GA9398@fandre.com> So I never actually found a speaker or a topic, but we'll have a meeting anyway. Why don't we call the topic "What I've done with Linux over my summer vacation"? We can go around the room telling about how we have been using Linux. When: Saturday December 6th, 2003, noon - 2pm Topic: What I did with Linux over my summer vacation. Where: University of Minnesota Electrical Engineering/Computer Science Building Room EE-CS 3-180 Map: http://onestop.umn.edu/Maps/EECSci/index.html _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 4 10:41:09 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Processors For Sale and Stepping Message-ID: <3FCF63A5.9030700@visi.com> Not everyone is in to hardware like I am so I figured I should make the "stepping" subject clear. Stepping is the microcode version of the processor. A dual (or greater processor) system "MUST" have processors of the same stepping or they will not work properly ("or at all"). On the PII 400mhz processors... Have a bracket on the front side of the processor that holds the heat sync in place. I don't know who designed the bracket but they should have been taken out and beaten with a wet noodle! The bracket covered the stepping number, _only the stepping number_ >:o Thats why I didn't want to look for the stepping number in the first place. Heat sync grease and all that. I had a request for a dual processor upgrade. I had to remove the bracket (bracket only) that holds the heat sync to get the stepping off the S.E.C.C.2 400mhz processors. I Looked up the stepping on the Intel site. FYI http://search.intel.com/support/search.asp?q1=stepping&SearchCrit=ALL&selFamily=24%23%240&selLine=All&recsPerPage=25&category=support&hidProductName=All+Processors+Products&hidProductAlias=prd24&mh=200&Family=1&Line=All&hidProductIndex=-1&source=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.intel.com%2Fsupport%2Fsearch.asp&version=2.0&ICrit=undefined&IRecs=1&FamFilter= The PII comes in 2 packages. The S.E.C.C. and the S.E.C.C.2 The S.E.C.C. has a fully surrounded slot connector The S.E.C.C.2 has a partially surrounded slot connector *For the 400mhz processors, 100mhz bus* S.E.C.C.2 stepping SL357 = 7 processors S.E.C.C. stepping SL2U6 = 2 processors S.E.C.C. stepping SL257 = 1 processor *For the 233mhz processors , 66mhz bus* S.E.C.C. stepping SL2HD = 2 processors S.E.C.C. stepping SL2HF = 1 processor Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Dec 4 10:57:07 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312041657.hB4Gv7W20689@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Project Laptop Computers I have 2 project laptops for sale. 15 dollars or best offer for each laptop. 1 Panasonic ToughBook CF-27 untested This is a tank of a laptop for harsh environments. PII 300mhz 64mb ram This is basically a shell No HD, FDD, or CDROM drives the HD caddy is in the machine No battery or AC adapter Several web sites for this machine I'll post to the group or you directly with them if interested. 2 Compaq Armada 7770 tested This laptop looks and works fine. Pentium 233mmx 64mb ram Internal 33.6 fax/modem No HD, FDD, or CDROM drives the HD caddy is in the machine Battery works, I don't know how long. Needs the plug as it has an internal power supply. Check ebay and compaq sites. Sam. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Dec 4 11:11:29 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312041711.hB4HBTC20920@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Memory Memory Memory More memory then I can shake a stick at. 60 sticks of 32mb PC66 RAM, 4x64 50 cents each. 29 sticks of 64mb PC100 RAM, 8x64 1 dollar each Sam. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Thu Dec 4 11:14:12 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] installfest / distro server? Message-ID: <20031204171412.GA2743@mail.el-swifto.com> Hey all: I recall a fair amount of talk re: a dedicated installfest server. Is anyone actually putting one together? JT -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at MarkCourtney.com Thu Dec 4 11:10:47 2003 From: tclug at MarkCourtney.com (Mark Courtney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail time warp Message-ID: <58067.12.129.97.254.1070514647.squirrel@webmail.charleshayes.net> It is as far as I can tell. Doesn't sendmail use the system time settings? $ date Thu Dec 4 10:39:47 GMT-6 2003 Mark Courtney http://www.MarkCourtney.com __ +|oo|+ +|oo|+ || || || || || || _ || _ \\_||_// | [] | | || | / [] \ \______/ > Is your timezone set right? > > Adam Maloney > Systems Administrator > Sihope Communications > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Mark Courtney wrote: > >> How do I get the time on my e-mails to be right? It seems kinda strange getting e-mails from the future. The time on the server is set right if I >> issue a `date` command, but the message in Squirellmail are 12 hours off. >> The 12 hour time warp is also in effect if I use Ximian Evolution. >> >> I'm using RH 7.2 with the default sendmail (and all the patches - no flames please). >> >> Can somebody please tell me how to remedy this? I've googled to no avail. >> >> >> Thanks LUG'ers >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Thu Dec 4 11:27:12 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Converting phpBB from PostgreSQL to MySQL Message-ID: <18E12241-267F-11D8-A3D8-000A95A50472@visi.com> Hey everyone, We're experimenting with phpBB as a discussion tool to be used with teachers and students. I set things up originally with Postgres because I'm more familiar with it and phpBB supports it. Now I'm moving the forum software to a different machine, and for a couple different reasons I'd like to use MySQL with the phpBB on the new server. The phpBB software will create the appropriate tables in the database. I'm wondering if I can do a pg_dump from Postgres with the data only and get that into the newly created MySQL tables for phpBB? Has anyone done this before? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From MarkCourtney at MarkCourtney.com Thu Dec 4 10:44:58 2003 From: MarkCourtney at MarkCourtney.com (Mark Courtney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail time warp In-Reply-To: <20031203213837.C43157@unix18.sihope.com> References: <33124.192.168.2.224.1070456235.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> <20031203213837.C43157@unix18.sihope.com> Message-ID: <43696.12.129.97.254.1070513098.squirrel@webmail.charleshayes.net> It is as far as I can tell. Doesn't sendmail use the system time settings? $ date Thu Dec 4 10:39:47 GMT-6 2003 Mark Courtney http://www.MarkCourtney.com __ +|oo|+ +|oo|+ || || || || || || _ || _ \\_||_// | [] | | || | / [] \ \______/ > Is your timezone set right? > > Adam Maloney > Systems Administrator > Sihope Communications > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Mark Courtney wrote: > >> How do I get the time on my e-mails to be right? It seems kinda strange >> getting e-mails from the future. The time on the server is set right if >> I >> issue a `date` command, but the message in Squirellmail are 12 hours >> off. >> The 12 hour time warp is also in effect if I use Ximian Evolution. >> >> I'm using RH 7.2 with the default sendmail (and all the patches - no >> flames please). >> >> Can somebody please tell me how to remedy this? I've googled to no >> avail. >> >> >> Thanks LUG'ers >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Thu Dec 4 11:37:08 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] installfest / distro server? In-Reply-To: <20031204171412.GA2743@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, John J. Trammell wrote: > Hey all: > > I recall a fair amount of talk re: a dedicated installfest > server. Is anyone actually putting one together? you mean like do stuff rather than talk? no why would we do such a silly thing? -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Thu Dec 4 11:45:46 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl @inc problem Message-ID: <016e01c3ba8e$75afe550$4dae6742@DELL2> Looks like I have 2 versions of perl, 5.8.0 is located in /usr/bin, and 5.8.2 is in /usr/local/bin. This is causing a problem when installing per modules manually and with CPAN. Everything ends up in /usr/local/bin ( the 5.8.2 install), so I am getting the following errors when I try to call Apache::PrettyPerl, "Can't locate Apache/PrettyPerl.pm in @INC ( @INC contains : /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/etc" Is there a way to force all modules to install to /usr/lib/perl5/perl5.8.0, or at least include the new perl libraries when launching a script? I tried changing the perl path on the two new scripts I am calling from #! /usr/bin/perl to #! /usr/local/bin/perl, but to no avail. Thanks in advance Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Thu Dec 4 11:30:34 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Converting phpBB from PostgreSQL to MySQL In-Reply-To: <18E12241-267F-11D8-A3D8-000A95A50472@visi.com> Message-ID: > The phpBB software will create the appropriate tables in the database. > I'm wondering if I can do a pg_dump from Postgres with the data only > and get that into the newly created MySQL tables for phpBB? Has anyone > done this before? Does Postgres have anything like phpmyadmin? (or maybe you know the commands?) I know with mysql you can dump a database to a .sql file, which is just a list of sql commands to re add the data to a new database. I think most of the syntax is the same between postgres and mysql, though I could be wrong, if not you may have to edit the file a bit after dumping, but if you know the commands it's pretty straightforward. Good luck, Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Dec 4 11:57:04 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] dsl packages with a single static IP (that don't require you to use their NAT) Message-ID: Hi List, I have been using Covad DSL very happily for a year and a half at 1.5mb/128kb for $50/mo. I would like to get a static IP address for a few reasons, so I looked at their upgrade options. I can get 1.5mb/256mb and 1 static IP for $70/mo, but I have been told I have to use their NAT (on the DSL router). This is NOT what I want. For $80/mo I can get the same bandwidth and 5 static IPs and not have to use their NAT. That and they say I have to cancel my current DSL, and when it is "totally cancelled" they can order the new service (which I interpret as "there will be a delay between the end and start of the services, and we don't know how long that will be"). Now, that may be true, but it make me want to look for other options. I looked at speakeasy.net, and they look nice, but I wanted to ask here first: Is there anybody using a DSL service with a static IP at around this price range and do you like it? Thanks, Troy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 4 12:04:57 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] installfest / distro server? In-Reply-To: <20031204171412.GA2743@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <20031204171412.GA2743@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <3FCF7749.1060303@visi.com> I can donate processor and ram for the box. 1 or 2 @ PII 400 4 or 8 @ 64mb PC100 Sam John J. Trammell wrote: >Hey all: > >I recall a fair amount of talk re: a dedicated installfest >server. Is anyone actually putting one together? > >JT > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Thu Dec 4 12:05:32 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] installfest / distro server? In-Reply-To: <20031204171412.GA2743@mail.el-swifto.com>; from trammell+tclug@el-swifto.com on Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:14:12AM -0600 References: <20031204171412.GA2743@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <20031204120532.B18717@thinkunix.net> We originally had a Pentium Pro200 in an old Gateway full tower case donated by David Schiff I believe (sorry if I screw up your name David). Rick and I spent > a day setting it up. I hauled it to the last installfest at the U but there wasn't much interest in due the the lan party happening that day/time. We did try to fire it up to burn some cdr's but the root disk was blown. It ran for over a week at my house with no problems, but drives die. Rick Meyerhoff picked up a bunch of parts from me a couple weeks ago and is working on building a replacement server. He got a better cpu, more memory, etc donated by another generous TCLUGer. I know Rick was busy with some contract work in Dec and there was talk of working on the installfest server again in January. John J. Trammell wrote: > I recall a fair amount of talk re: a dedicated installfest > server. Is anyone actually putting one together? -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Dec 4 12:04:58 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl @inc problem In-Reply-To: <016e01c3ba8e$75afe550$4dae6742@DELL2> References: <016e01c3ba8e$75afe550$4dae6742@DELL2> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Raymond Norton wrote: > Looks like I have 2 versions of perl, 5.8.0 is located in /usr/bin, and > 5.8.2 is in /usr/local/bin. *snip* > Is there a way to force all modules to install to > /usr/lib/perl5/perl5.8.0, or at least include the new perl libraries > when launching a script? I tried changing the perl path on the two new > scripts I am calling from #! /usr/bin/perl to #! /usr/local/bin/perl, > but to no avail. My recommendation would be to install one of the versions of perl, so you've only got one copy installed. That way, there's no confusion. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Thu Dec 4 12:11:09 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] installfest / distro server? In-Reply-To: <3FCF7749.1060303@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:04:57PM -0600 References: <20031204171412.GA2743@mail.el-swifto.com> <3FCF7749.1060303@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031204121109.D18717@thinkunix.net> Sam, Rick may need the memory but I think he's got a cpu already. You'll have to check with him as he has the latest installfest server parts. Hopefully he'll respond in a bit... Sam MacDonald wrote: > I can donate processor and ram for the box. > 1 or 2 @ PII 400 > 4 or 8 @ 64mb PC100 -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ston0235 at umn.edu Thu Dec 4 12:21:45 2003 From: ston0235 at umn.edu (Ian Stoner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SOLVED heavy processor use after lots of HD reads/writes In-Reply-To: <20031204122826.GB9961@refried.org> References: <20031204000609.0cd771eb.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031204122826.GB9961@refried.org> Message-ID: <20031204122145.7406820c.ston0235@umn.edu> On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:28:26 -0600, nate@refried.org wrote: > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:06:09AM -0600, Ian Stoner wrote: > > After I copy a large file (~30 megs) my processor activity shoots up > > to 100% for 10 to 15 seconds, and I can't use my system during that > > time. > > Sounds like write caching without DMA enabled. Use hdparm to make > sure that DMA is enabled on your drives. That nailed it! Thanks, Nate. I had never heard of hdparm--I found a webpage that recommended some likely safe settings, tried them, and got a more than 5-fold increase in buffered disc reads. I've included the output of the commands I ran, in case anyone cares. Maybe I'm the only one who's never heard of hdparm? If anyone knows of any other parameters I should pay attention to, please advise. Thanks again! root@goodmanbrown:~# hdparm /dev/hda /dev/hda: multcount = 0 (off) IO_support = 0 (default 16-bit) unmaskirq = 0 (off) using_dma = 0 (off) keepsettings = 0 (off) readonly = 0 (off) readahead = 8 (on) geometry = 2495/255/63, sectors = 40088160, start = 0 root@goodmanbrown:~# hdparm -Tt /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 368 MB in 2.01 seconds = 183.08 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 12 MB in 3.07 seconds = 3.91 MB/sec root@goodmanbrown:~# hdparm -X66 -d1 -u1 -m16 -c3 /dev/hda /dev/hda: setting 32-bit IO_support flag to 3 setting multcount to 16 setting unmaskirq to 1 (on) setting using_dma to 1 (on) setting xfermode to 66 (UltraDMA mode2) multcount = 16 (on) IO_support = 3 (32-bit w/sync) unmaskirq = 1 (on) using_dma = 1 (on) root@goodmanbrown:~# hdparm -Tt /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 376 MB in 2.02 seconds = 186.14 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 3.04 seconds = 21.05 MB/sec -- Ian Stoner Philosophy Department University of Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bfriedman at exstream.com Thu Dec 4 12:25:23 2003 From: bfriedman at exstream.com (Brent Friedman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs Message-ID: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46F6@rye.exstream.com> I was asked to look into feasibility for setting up a Linux (or *bsd) based SAN. I know there have been some kernel mods for this kind of stuff, but I don't know their current status, and quick googles show something called netMD at a conference in ottawa, but no website for it. I used to work at the Utech Center near campus, and I think the people at Sistina were doing something like this. Because of various development environments, I need the SAN to be reachable from anything (meaning Windoze, AIX, Solaris or other Linux boxen). I am not very versant in vfs, lvm, etc., but I have the time to deal with a manual. Any comments on what will/won't work, or suggestions on sites/mailing lists for linux SANs? Thanks, Brent Friedman _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Thu Dec 4 12:12:36 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YDL and Airport? In-Reply-To: <20031203230120.A32424@thinkunix.net> References: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <1070505327.25594.5.camel@pc-00070.7penguins.com> <20031203230120.A32424@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20031204181236.GA31058@autonomous.tv> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at MarkCourtney.com Thu Dec 4 12:27:54 2003 From: tclug at MarkCourtney.com (Mark Courtney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] dsl packages with a single static IP (that don'trequire you to use their NAT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34399.12.129.97.254.1070519274.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> >From my shopping experience, if you get only a single static IP, the IP belongs to the dsl router. This can still be useful if you do port forwarding with the dsl router and forward the ports to a machine internally. This feature may or may not be supported by your current dsl router. If you want a single usable static IP for a computer on the LAN side of the router, I think you might have to get a block of 8 IPs (5 are usable). I'm not a Cisco wizard, so if I'm wrong here, my feelings won't be hurt if somebody corrects me. I'm just tryin' to share some knows in hopes that somebody will gimme an answer to my "sendmail time warp" thread. Mark Courtney http://www.MarkCourtney.com __ +|oo|+ +|oo|+ || || || || || || _ || _ \\_||_// | [] | | || | / [] \ \______/ > Hi List, > > I have been using Covad DSL very happily for a year and > a half at 1.5mb/128kb for $50/mo. I would like to get a > static IP address for a few reasons, so I looked at their > upgrade options. I can get 1.5mb/256mb and 1 static IP > for $70/mo, but I have been told I have to use their NAT > (on the DSL router). This is NOT what I want. For $80/mo > I can get the same bandwidth and 5 static IPs and not > have to use their NAT. That and they say I have to cancel > my current DSL, and when it is "totally cancelled" they can > order the new service (which I interpret as "there will be > a delay between the end and start of the services, and > we don't know how long that will be"). > > Now, that may be true, but it make me want to look for > other options. I looked at speakeasy.net, and they look > nice, but I wanted to ask here first: > > Is there anybody using a DSL service with a static IP at > around this price range and do you like it? > > Thanks, > > Troy > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at sift.info Thu Dec 4 12:41:39 2003 From: rpgoldman at sift.info (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] random member link at www.mn-linux.org Message-ID: <16335.32739.447193.216563@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Yeesh! I just clicked on this link and it takes me to a web page that says "you can only view me with Internet Explorer 5.5+, nyah-nyah!" Well, ok, it doesn't say "nyah-nay," but the rest is true..... What's the world coming to? R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at sift.info Thu Dec 4 12:43:44 2003 From: rpgoldman at sift.info (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sphinx Message-ID: <16335.32864.438459.678261@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Anyone tried the Sphinx voice recognition system at all on Linux? I was thinking of giving it a whack, but wanted to hear about others' experiences first... Using Sphinx 2 or 3? r _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Thu Dec 4 12:45:34 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Converting phpBB from PostgreSQL to MySQL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FCF80CE.9060009@visi.com> If you look at the options for pgdump you can set it up to dump the data as fully qualified SQL INSERT statements, and I'm pretty sure that you can limit it to the data only, but if not you can always load the resulting script into vi and hack out the create table statements. --rick Matt Murphy wrote: >>The phpBB software will create the appropriate tables in the database. >>I'm wondering if I can do a pg_dump from Postgres with the data only >>and get that into the newly created MySQL tables for phpBB? Has anyone >>done this before? >> >> > > Does Postgres have anything like phpmyadmin? (or maybe you know the commands?) I know with mysql you can dump a database to a .sql file, which is just a list of sql commands to re add the data to a new database. I think most of the syntax is the same between postgres and mysql, though I could be wrong, if not you may have to edit the file a bit after dumping, but if you know the commands it's pretty straightforward. > >Good luck, > >Matt > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Dec 4 12:59:39 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail time warp Message-ID: Mark, This time is not correct. Unless you are somewhere in Asia, I think. If you are in MN, you should see something like: CST instead of: GMT-6 Because 'CST' is like 'GMT+6', your "off by 12 hours" problem is most likely a timezone misconfiguration. Since you are on RedHat run: /usr/bin/tzselect at a prompt or: /usr/bin/redhat-config-time in X. If that doesn't it, send the output of: cat /etc/sysconfig/clock to the list. Good luck, Troy >>> MarkCourtney@MarkCourtney.com 12/04/03 10:44AM >>> It is as far as I can tell. Doesn't sendmail use the system time settings? $ date Thu Dec 4 10:39:47 GMT-6 2003 Mark Courtney http://www.MarkCourtney.com __ +|oo|+ +|oo|+ || || || || || || _ || _ \\_||_// | [] | | || | / [] \ \______/ > Is your timezone set right? > > Adam Maloney > Systems Administrator > Sihope Communications > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Mark Courtney wrote: > >> How do I get the time on my e-mails to be right? It seems kinda strange >> getting e-mails from the future. The time on the server is set right if >> I >> issue a `date` command, but the message in Squirellmail are 12 hours >> off. >> The 12 hour time warp is also in effect if I use Ximian Evolution. >> >> I'm using RH 7.2 with the default sendmail (and all the patches - no >> flames please). >> >> Can somebody please tell me how to remedy this? I've googled to no >> avail. >> >> >> Thanks LUG'ers >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Thu Dec 4 12:47:06 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SOLVED heavy processor use after lots of HD reads/writes In-Reply-To: <20031204122145.7406820c.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: > /dev/hda: > Timing buffer-cache reads: 376 MB in 2.02 seconds = 186.14 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 3.04 seconds = 21.05 MB/sec Lol, I was pretty sure everything was set right on my drive, but just in case I decided to run this command and check my own... 387.88 MB/sec & 54.24 MB/sec respective scores. Whoa, nelly! I think this is the first drive I've owned that could actually saturate an ATA/33 bus. Interestingly enough, an identical slave to that gave 376.47 & 53.33 MB/sec. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Dec 4 13:03:50 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] dsl packages with a single static IP (that don't require you to use their NAT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > I can get 1.5mb/256mb and 1 static IP for $70/mo, but I have been told I > have to use their NAT (on the DSL router). This is NOT what I want. I've been told that in some cases (ISP's offering Qwest DSL with an Actiontec or Qwest router and a single static IP, not sure about your specific Covad situation), you can configure the router as a bridge, and run a PPPoE client on a Linux box and therefore have the IP on the Linux box, without having to buy a subnet. Haven't yet had the chance to try this myself or for one of our DSL clients (most of our customers who need IP's just get subnets), but it seems like it'd be a reasonable way of doing things. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Thu Dec 4 13:04:32 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Portable MP3/Ogg player In-Reply-To: References: <20031201164816.GF1173@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031204190432.GA18878@refried.org> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 07:56:00AM -0600, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > On another note - what does everyone use under linux to rip/encode your cd > library - I'm going ogg, and see that grip will rip and ogg stuff.... > other options? I like auto look up for names artist etc.. tags are good > too! I've been a long time grip user and I really like it. Being able to insert the CD and walk away until the CD ejects is really nice. I'm working on switching to abcde because recent builds of grip on Debian unstable depend on all the Gnome libraries. I don't use Gnome or KDE so I try not to have any of their supporting libraries installed. I've ripped and encoded a few CDs so far and found that I need to do a little customization to match my naming scheme, but it worked well. So grip and abcde are good in my book. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Dec 4 13:04:10 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail time warp In-Reply-To: <58067.12.129.97.254.1070514647.squirrel@webmail.charleshayes.net> References: <58067.12.129.97.254.1070514647.squirrel@webmail.charleshayes.net> Message-ID: <1070564649.3106.57.camel@unixws1> Just checking - probably the #1 problem I've seen with e-mail times. So what you are seeing is that the times on other people's messages appear to be in the future? Your mail client should be reading the time from the Date: field, which is actually sent from the sending MUA, so the in-between server's times shouldn't really matter. So is the Date: header in the suspect e-mails correct? On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 11:10, Mark Courtney wrote: > It is as far as I can tell. Doesn't sendmail use the system time settings? > > $ date > Thu Dec 4 10:39:47 GMT-6 2003 > > > Mark Courtney > > http://www.MarkCourtney.com > > __ > +|oo|+ > +|oo|+ > || > || > || > || > || > || > _ || _ > \\_||_// > | [] | > | || | > / [] \ > \______/ > > > Is your timezone set right? > > > > Adam Maloney > > Systems Administrator > > Sihope Communications > > > > > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Mark Courtney wrote: > > > >> How do I get the time on my e-mails to be right? It seems kinda > strange getting e-mails from the future. The time on the server is set > right if I > >> issue a `date` command, but the message in Squirellmail are 12 hours off. > >> The 12 hour time warp is also in effect if I use Ximian Evolution. > >> > >> I'm using RH 7.2 with the default sendmail (and all the patches - no > flames please). > >> > >> Can somebody please tell me how to remedy this? I've googled to no avail. > >> > >> > >> Thanks LUG'ers > >> > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Dec 4 13:09:38 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail time warp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031204190938.GN2167@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:59:39PM -0600, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Mark, > > This time is not correct. Unless you are somewhere in Asia, I think. > > If you are in MN, you should see something like: > > CST > > instead of: > > GMT-6 > > Because 'CST' is like 'GMT+6', your "off by 12 hours" > problem is most likely a timezone misconfiguration. CST is GMT-6, we're 6 hours behind GMT. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Thu Dec 4 13:17:40 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SOLVED heavy processor use after lots of HD reads/writes In-Reply-To: <20031204122145.7406820c.ston0235@umn.edu> References: <20031204000609.0cd771eb.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031204122826.GB9961@refried.org> <20031204122145.7406820c.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: <20031204191740.GB18878@refried.org> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:21:45PM -0600, Ian Stoner wrote: > On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:28:26 -0600, nate@refried.org wrote: > > Sounds like write caching without DMA enabled. Use hdparm to make > > sure that DMA is enabled on your drives. > > That nailed it! Thanks, Nate. You're welcome. :) IIRC, newer kernels turn on DMA by default, but I don't know which versions do. You might need to tweak something in your kernel config. Also, be sure to save these in an initscript somewhere so you don't have to run them by had after the next reboot. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Thu Dec 4 13:21:36 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <200312041711.hB4HBTC20920@crusader.real-time.com> References: <200312041711.hB4HBTC20920@crusader.real-time.com> Message-ID: <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Here's a dumb question --- anybody know of a site on the web that provides pictures to help us tell what sort of memory our old crufty hardware will take? Thanks, r _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Thu Dec 4 13:31:28 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Converting phpBB from PostgreSQL to MySQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Matt Murphy wrote: > Does Postgres have anything like phpmyadmin? Sure, phppgadmin: http://phppgadmin.sourceforge.net/ (I only knew because I installed it long, long ago.) Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Dec 4 13:37:55 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200312041711.hB4HBTC20920@crusader.real-time.com> <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > Here's a dumb question --- anybody know of a site on the web that > provides pictures to help us tell what sort of memory our old crufty > hardware will take? If you know what kind of motherboard you have, go to any of the big memory sites (crucial.com, kingston, simpletech), enter your motherboard, and it'll tell you what it'll take. Otherwise.. best of luck. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Dec 4 13:34:46 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] dsl packages with a single static IP (that don'trequire you to use their NAT) In-Reply-To: <34399.12.129.97.254.1070519274.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> References: <34399.12.129.97.254.1070519274.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> Message-ID: <1070566482.3106.88.camel@unixws1> On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 12:27, Mark Courtney wrote: > >From my shopping experience, if you get only a single static IP, the IP > belongs to the dsl router. This can still be useful if you do port > forwarding with the dsl router and forward the ports to a machine > internally. This feature may or may not be supported by your current dsl > router. > With most DSL nowadays, the router is doing PPP, so it gets the IP address. The cisco's and ActionTec's (used with Qwest-based DSL) can handle NAT or routing a block of IP's. So if you need a real, public internet IP, and the cisco's port-forwarding features won't work, then you'll need to pay your ISP for a block of IP's. I've heard of people that have put the cisco into bridging mode (just using it as an ATM->Ethernet bridge), and ran PPP through it from their (Linux) PC (hey, this thread just became On-Topic!) This is probably VERY unsupported with most ISP's though. And I'm not sure what equipment Frontier is using, but I'd bet it's not the Cisco 600 series. But maybe you (Troy) can find a way to do this using your equipment. Actually, there is an ISP in town that does DSL through TDS Telecom (a.k.a. Bridgewater, in Monticello/Big Lake). Their customers buy a speedstream DSL modem (NOT a router), and run the built-in WinXP PPP client (for those customers that have XP), which handles the authentication/IP assignment. > If you want a single usable static IP for a computer on the LAN side of > the router, I think you might have to get a block of 8 IPs (5 are usable). > I'm not a Cisco wizard, so if I'm wrong here, my feelings won't be hurt > if somebody corrects me. > > I'm just tryin' to share some knows in hopes that somebody will gimme an > answer to my "sendmail time warp" thread. > > > Mark Courtney > > http://www.MarkCourtney.com > > __ > +|oo|+ > +|oo|+ > || > || > || > || > || > || > _ || _ > \\_||_// > | [] | > | || | > / [] \ > \______/ > > > Hi List, > > > > I have been using Covad DSL very happily for a year and > > a half at 1.5mb/128kb for $50/mo. I would like to get a > > static IP address for a few reasons, so I looked at their > > upgrade options. I can get 1.5mb/256mb and 1 static IP > > for $70/mo, but I have been told I have to use their NAT > > (on the DSL router). This is NOT what I want. For $80/mo > > I can get the same bandwidth and 5 static IPs and not > > have to use their NAT. That and they say I have to cancel > > my current DSL, and when it is "totally cancelled" they can > > order the new service (which I interpret as "there will be > > a delay between the end and start of the services, and > > we don't know how long that will be"). > > > > Now, that may be true, but it make me want to look for > > other options. I looked at speakeasy.net, and they look > > nice, but I wanted to ask here first: > > > > Is there anybody using a DSL service with a static IP at > > around this price range and do you like it? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Troy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Dec 4 13:37:38 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail time warp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1070566657.3106.90.camel@unixws1> CST is -0600. Earth spins to the right :) On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 12:59, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Mark, > > This time is not correct. Unless you are somewhere in Asia, I think. > > If you are in MN, you should see something like: > > CST > > instead of: > > GMT-6 > > Because 'CST' is like 'GMT+6', your "off by 12 hours" > problem is most likely a timezone misconfiguration. > > Since you are on RedHat run: > > /usr/bin/tzselect > > at a prompt or: > > /usr/bin/redhat-config-time > > in X. If that doesn't it, send the output of: > > cat /etc/sysconfig/clock > > to the list. > > Good luck, > > Troy > > >>> MarkCourtney@MarkCourtney.com 12/04/03 10:44AM >>> > It is as far as I can tell. Doesn't sendmail use the system time > settings? > > $ date > Thu Dec 4 10:39:47 GMT-6 2003 > > > Mark Courtney > > http://www.MarkCourtney.com > > __ > +|oo|+ > +|oo|+ > || > || > || > || > || > || > _ || _ > \\_||_// > | [] | > | || | > / [] \ > \______/ > > > Is your timezone set right? > > > > Adam Maloney > > Systems Administrator > > Sihope Communications > > > > > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Mark Courtney wrote: > > > >> How do I get the time on my e-mails to be right? It seems kinda > strange > >> getting e-mails from the future. The time on the server is set > right if > >> I > >> issue a `date` command, but the message in Squirellmail are 12 > hours > >> off. > >> The 12 hour time warp is also in effect if I use Ximian Evolution. > >> > >> I'm using RH 7.2 with the default sendmail (and all the patches - > no > >> flames please). > >> > >> Can somebody please tell me how to remedy this? I've googled to no > >> avail. > >> > >> > >> Thanks LUG'ers > >> > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Thu Dec 4 13:54:57 2003 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SOLVED heavy processor use after lots of HD reads/writes In-Reply-To: <20031204122145.7406820c.ston0235@umn.edu> References: <20031204000609.0cd771eb.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031204122826.GB9961@refried.org> <20031204122145.7406820c.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: <200312041354.57701.barnabas@knicknack.net> Ian, Could you please send us the URL for that page. I'm having some problems that I believe may be related to disk performance. Once in a while, my system will freeze. The thing that always happens when it thaws is that the disk light goes one. Thanks, Eric On Thursday 04 December 2003 12:21, Ian Stoner wrote: > > That nailed it! Thanks, Nate. I had never heard of hdparm--I found a > webpage that recommended some likely safe settings, tried them, and got > a more than 5-fold increase in buffered disc reads. I've included the > output of the commands I ran, in case anyone cares. Maybe I'm the only > one who's never heard of hdparm? If anyone knows of any other > parameters I should pay attention to, please advise. > > Thanks again! > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Dec 4 13:40:38 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs In-Reply-To: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46F6@rye.exstream.com> References: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46F6@rye.exstream.com> Message-ID: <1070566836.3106.94.camel@unixws1> You might try dropping a line to Ben (ben at nerp dot net), I think he works on a Linux cluster connected to a SAN at UMN. I don't think he's on the list anymore though. Tell him I sent you and he'll give you a free "ooooh" On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 12:25, Brent Friedman wrote: > I was asked to look into feasibility for setting up a Linux (or *bsd) based SAN. I know there have been some kernel mods for this kind of stuff, but I don't know their current status, and quick googles show something called netMD at a conference in ottawa, but no website for it. I used to work at the Utech Center near campus, and I think the people at Sistina were doing something like this. > > Because of various development environments, I need the SAN to be reachable from anything (meaning Windoze, AIX, Solaris or other Linux boxen). I am not very versant in vfs, lvm, etc., but I have the time to deal with a manual. > > Any comments on what will/won't work, or suggestions on sites/mailing lists for linux SANs? > > Thanks, > > Brent Friedman > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 4 14:00:49 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] dsl packages with a single static IP (that don'trequire you to use their NAT) In-Reply-To: <34399.12.129.97.254.1070519274.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> References: <34399.12.129.97.254.1070519274.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> Message-ID: <3FCF9271.6070406@visi.com> I have 2 IP's one for the router on the Provider side and one for my router. I port forward to my web server and I have another servver I just link to. Sam. Mark Courtney wrote: >>From my shopping experience, if you get only a single static IP, the IP >belongs to the dsl router. This can still be useful if you do port >forwarding with the dsl router and forward the ports to a machine >internally. This feature may or may not be supported by your current dsl >router. > >If you want a single usable static IP for a computer on the LAN side of >the router, I think you might have to get a block of 8 IPs (5 are usable). > I'm not a Cisco wizard, so if I'm wrong here, my feelings won't be hurt >if somebody corrects me. > >I'm just tryin' to share some knows in hopes that somebody will gimme an >answer to my "sendmail time warp" thread. > > >Mark Courtney > >http://www.MarkCourtney.com > > __ > +|oo|+ > +|oo|+ > || > || > || > || > || > || > _ || _ > \\_||_// > | [] | > | || | > / [] \ > \______/ > > > >>Hi List, >> >>I have been using Covad DSL very happily for a year and >>a half at 1.5mb/128kb for $50/mo. I would like to get a >>static IP address for a few reasons, so I looked at their >>upgrade options. I can get 1.5mb/256mb and 1 static IP >>for $70/mo, but I have been told I have to use their NAT >>(on the DSL router). This is NOT what I want. For $80/mo >>I can get the same bandwidth and 5 static IPs and not >>have to use their NAT. That and they say I have to cancel >>my current DSL, and when it is "totally cancelled" they can >>order the new service (which I interpret as "there will be >>a delay between the end and start of the services, and >>we don't know how long that will be"). >> >>Now, that may be true, but it make me want to look for >>other options. I looked at speakeasy.net, and they look >>nice, but I wanted to ask here first: >> >>Is there anybody using a DSL service with a static IP at >>around this price range and do you like it? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Troy >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Dec 4 14:02:35 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200312041711.hB4HBTC20920@crusader.real-time.com> <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3FCF92DB.7090809@comcast.net> I would think most older machines are going to use either SIMMs or DIMMs. Most SIMMs are pretty interchangable, depending upon how much RAM the machine can handle. DIMMs on the other hand can be PC66, PC100, or PC133 and I know for a fact that they aren't always interchangable. Some machines HAVE to have PC66, not PC100 or PC133. In that case you would have to look up the actual specs for that machine or motherboard. rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > Here's a dumb question --- anybody know of a site on the web that > provides pictures to help us tell what sort of memory our old crufty > hardware will take? > > Thanks, > r > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Dec 4 14:05:12 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New hope for expanded Linux file system usage? Message-ID: <3FCF9378.1060409@comcast.net> Looks like Mico$oft is pulling another fast one on the electronics industry: http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/tech/fat.asp Soooooo, I wonder how many manufacturers will tell M$ to stuff it and move to one of the Linux file systems?? BTW, the original article was on Slashdot. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Dec 4 13:48:48 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail time warp Message-ID: I always get that wrong. Sorry Mark. >>> poptix@techmonkeys.org 12/04/03 01:09PM >>> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:59:39PM -0600, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Mark, > > This time is not correct. Unless you are somewhere in Asia, I think. > > If you are in MN, you should see something like: > > CST > > instead of: > > GMT-6 > > Because 'CST' is like 'GMT+6', your "off by 12 hours" > problem is most likely a timezone misconfiguration. CST is GMT-6, we're 6 hours behind GMT. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Dec 4 14:22:42 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail time warp Message-ID: Listen Bill, you know what you're talking about and I don't need to apologize to you (ok, maybe I do). I was apologizing to Mark because I was attempting to lead him off the path of "timezone correctness". >>> poptix@techmonkeys.org 12/04/03 02:15PM >>> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 01:48:48PM -0600, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > I always get that wrong. Sorry Mark. No problem, Tom. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Dec 4 14:15:28 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail time warp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031204201528.GO2167@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 01:48:48PM -0600, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > I always get that wrong. Sorry Mark. No problem, Tom. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 4 14:03:56 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs In-Reply-To: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46F6@rye.exstream.com> References: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46F6@rye.exstream.com> Message-ID: <3FCF932C.4020505@visi.com> Even if IBM ticks me off right now they have a Linux SAN solution. Sam. Brent Friedman wrote: >I was asked to look into feasibility for setting up a Linux (or *bsd) based SAN. I know there have been some kernel mods for this kind of stuff, but I don't know their current status, and quick googles show something called netMD at a conference in ottawa, but no website for it. I used to work at the Utech Center near campus, and I think the people at Sistina were doing something like this. > >Because of various development environments, I need the SAN to be reachable from anything (meaning Windoze, AIX, Solaris or other Linux boxen). I am not very versant in vfs, lvm, etc., but I have the time to deal with a manual. > >Any comments on what will/won't work, or suggestions on sites/mailing lists for linux SANs? > >Thanks, > >Brent Friedman > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Thu Dec 4 14:37:39 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB906@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Um, do you mean SAN or NAS? Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 -----Original Message----- From: Adam Maloney [mailto:adamm@sihope.com] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 1:41 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs You might try dropping a line to Ben (ben at nerp dot net), I think he works on a Linux cluster connected to a SAN at UMN. I don't think he's on the list anymore though. Tell him I sent you and he'll give you a free "ooooh" On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 12:25, Brent Friedman wrote: > I was asked to look into feasibility for setting up a Linux (or *bsd) based SAN. I know there have been some kernel mods for this kind of stuff, but I don't know their current status, and quick googles show something called netMD at a conference in ottawa, but no website for it. I used to work at the Utech Center near campus, and I think the people at Sistina were doing something like this. > > Because of various development environments, I need the SAN to be reachable from anything (meaning Windoze, AIX, Solaris or other Linux boxen). I am not very versant in vfs, lvm, etc., but I have the time to deal with a manual. > > Any comments on what will/won't work, or suggestions on sites/mailing lists for linux SANs? > > Thanks, > > Brent Friedman > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Dec 4 14:44:53 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing out Public IP's Message-ID: <20031204144453.12f2665d.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Hi, me again. Hopefully a quick question. I have a new 1U server that i just built with Debian. It's going to Virginia to a colo facility, where it will soon get a block of public IP's starting with 65.15.208.220. Currently, I have the server on my private subnet at 192.168.0.50. I'm wondering if there is a way to set this up with it's public IP block and test that it actually works so when they plug it in at the colo facility, I can guaruntee that I can talk to it here in Minnesota instead of paying some support person if something doesn't work. My firewall box has 3 NICs, only two are used as I never setup my DMZ. One is my public interface at 24.106.16.242 (eth0), the other is my private network gateway at 192.168.0.1 (eth1). What I'm wondering, is can I use the 3rd NIC (eth2) and give it and address of 65.15.208.219 to act as the 65.15.208 gateway and set up a route so that the firewall box routes to nic 3 for 65.15.208.xxx instead of the public interface default gateway (eth0)? Setting up the NIC is easy (ifconfig), but I'm always a little confused about the routing part. Does this sound right? ifconfig eth2 65.15.208.219 netmask 255.255.255.0 up route add -net 65.15.208.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 -gw 65.15.208.219 dev eth2 Of course, this would then route ALL 65.15.208.x IPs and not just the 10 IPs I want to test. I suppose I could just try this and see what happens, but anytime I start hosing around with the network interfaces on my gateway box, bad things happen... Any thoughts/suggestions? Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Dec 4 14:20:19 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail time warp Message-ID: Yeah, but only when North is up. ;-) It is especially embarrassing when I type "good morning" in IRC to someone in England and they tell you it's dinnertime. :-P >>> adamm@sihope.com 12/04/03 01:37PM >>> CST is -0600. Earth spins to the right :) On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 12:59, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Mark, > > This time is not correct. Unless you are somewhere in Asia, I think. > > If you are in MN, you should see something like: > > CST > > instead of: > > GMT-6 > > Because 'CST' is like 'GMT+6', your "off by 12 hours" > problem is most likely a timezone misconfiguration. > > Since you are on RedHat run: > > /usr/bin/tzselect > > at a prompt or: > > /usr/bin/redhat-config-time > > in X. If that doesn't it, send the output of: > > cat /etc/sysconfig/clock > > to the list. > > Good luck, > > Troy > > >>> MarkCourtney@MarkCourtney.com 12/04/03 10:44AM >>> > It is as far as I can tell. Doesn't sendmail use the system time > settings? > > $ date > Thu Dec 4 10:39:47 GMT-6 2003 > > > Mark Courtney > > http://www.MarkCourtney.com > > __ > +|oo|+ > +|oo|+ > || > || > || > || > || > || > _ || _ > \\_||_// > | [] | > | || | > / [] \ > \______/ > > > Is your timezone set right? > > > > Adam Maloney > > Systems Administrator > > Sihope Communications > > > > > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Mark Courtney wrote: > > > >> How do I get the time on my e-mails to be right? It seems kinda > strange > >> getting e-mails from the future. The time on the server is set > right if > >> I > >> issue a `date` command, but the message in Squirellmail are 12 > hours > >> off. > >> The 12 hour time warp is also in effect if I use Ximian Evolution. > >> > >> I'm using RH 7.2 with the default sendmail (and all the patches - > no > >> flames please). > >> > >> Can somebody please tell me how to remedy this? I've googled to no > >> avail. > >> > >> > >> Thanks LUG'ers > >> > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Thu Dec 4 14:38:23 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: References: <200312041711.hB4HBTC20920@crusader.real-time.com> <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16335.39743.197101.482645@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "NC" == Nate Carlson writes: NC> On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >> Here's a dumb question --- anybody know of a site on the web that >> provides pictures to help us tell what sort of memory our old crufty >> hardware will take? NC> If you know what kind of motherboard you have, go to any of the big memory NC> sites (crucial.com, kingston, simpletech), enter your motherboard, and NC> it'll tell you what it'll take. Otherwise.. best of luck. :) Well, I've just got an antique Dell, working as my slimp3 server, and no good idea how to determine what mobo it has.... :-( _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 4 15:12:18 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200312041711.hB4HBTC20920@crusader.real-time.com> <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3FCFA332.1010003@visi.com> This is a great web site with links to companies that build motherboards, motherboard reviews, and all sorts of other information. http://www.motherboards.org/ Under the "Site Info" menu check "Affiliates" that has lots of sites. Sam. rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >Here's a dumb question --- anybody know of a site on the web that >provides pictures to help us tell what sort of memory our old crufty >hardware will take? > >Thanks, >r > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tletofsky at UMWCS.com Thu Dec 4 15:08:27 2003 From: tletofsky at UMWCS.com (Ted Letofsky) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs Message-ID: Hi Brent... Hi group! Ted Letofsky (lurker at large) here. I can talk SAN with you, on list or off, if you want. It's a pretty large portion of what I do for the day job. I'm a lurker because I know SAN really well, but not very good at Linux. Can discuss technology, connectivity, hardware, etc. Ted Letofsky Wenzel Data, Inc. UMWCS etc, etc. etc. -----Original Message----- From: Brent Friedman To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Sent: 12/4/2003 12:25 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs I was asked to look into feasibility for setting up a Linux (or *bsd) based SAN. I know there have been some kernel mods for this kind of stuff, but I don't know their current status, and quick googles show something called netMD at a conference in ottawa, but no website for it. I used to work at the Utech Center near campus, and I think the people at Sistina were doing something like this. Because of various development environments, I need the SAN to be reachable from anything (meaning Windoze, AIX, Solaris or other Linux boxen). I am not very versant in vfs, lvm, etc., but I have the time to deal with a manual. Any comments on what will/won't work, or suggestions on sites/mailing lists for linux SANs? Thanks, Brent Friedman _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Thu Dec 4 15:06:16 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <16335.39743.197101.482645@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > Well, I've just got an antique Dell, working as my slimp3 server, and > no good idea how to determine what mobo it has.... Crucial.com has every model of dell listed in their nice little menu. =] Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Thu Dec 4 15:14:52 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I can talk SAN with you, on list or off, if you want. Please keep it on list, or at least CC me, I'd like to absorb as much info as possible on SANs, as I know very little, but am interested. Thanks, Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 4 15:26:31 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New hope for expanded Linux file system usage? In-Reply-To: <3FCF9378.1060409@comcast.net> References: <3FCF9378.1060409@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FCFA687.2060905@visi.com> And they wonder why they are loosing market share. M$ M$ M$ Sam. Todd Young wrote: > Looks like Mico$oft is pulling another fast one on the electronics > industry: > > http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/tech/fat.asp > > Soooooo, I wonder how many manufacturers will tell M$ to stuff it and > move to one of the Linux file systems?? > > BTW, the original article was on Slashdot. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 4 15:29:23 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <16335.39743.197101.482645@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200312041711.hB4HBTC20920@crusader.real-time.com> <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16335.39743.197101.482645@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3FCFA733.1050109@visi.com> Dell has used Intel mother boards for some time. But it depends on how old your machine is. Sam. rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >>>>>>"NC" == Nate Carlson writes: >>>>>> >>>>>> > > NC> On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > >> Here's a dumb question --- anybody know of a site on the web that > >> provides pictures to help us tell what sort of memory our old crufty > >> hardware will take? > > NC> If you know what kind of motherboard you have, go to any of the big memory > NC> sites (crucial.com, kingston, simpletech), enter your motherboard, and > NC> it'll tell you what it'll take. Otherwise.. best of luck. :) > >Well, I've just got an antique Dell, working as my slimp3 server, and >no good idea how to determine what mobo it has.... > >:-( > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Thu Dec 4 15:16:23 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing out Public IP's In-Reply-To: <20031204144453.12f2665d.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>; from josh@trutwins.homeip.net on Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 02:44:53PM -0600 References: <20031204144453.12f2665d.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031204151623.B19024@thinkunix.net> sure, that's do-able. make sure you have a current backup of any important firewall configs before you start. You probably can just run the ifconfig, route and iptables commands manually (avoid changing any config files all together on your firewall) to do your testing. When you're done, just reboot your firewall (back to it's original config). As far as remote access, do you have serial console setup? Is there another device you can plug the console port into so that if things don't work, you can still access the box remotely? serial console is a lifesaver. Josh Trutwin wrote: > I have a new 1U server that i just built with Debian. It's going to Virginia to a colo facility, where it will soon get a block of public IP's starting with 65.15.208.220. > > Currently, I have the server on my private subnet at 192.168.0.50. I'm wondering if there is a way to set this up with it's public IP block and test that it actually works so when they plug it in at the colo facility, I can guaruntee that I can talk to it here in Minnesota instead of paying some support person if something doesn't work. > > My firewall box has 3 NICs, only two are used as I never setup my DMZ. One is my public interface at 24.106.16.242 (eth0), the other is my private network gateway at 192.168.0.1 (eth1). What I'm wondering, is can I use the 3rd NIC (eth2) and give it and address of 65.15.208.219 to act as the 65.15.208 gateway and set up a route so that the firewall box routes to nic 3 for 65.15.208.xxx instead of the public interface default gateway (eth0)? > > Setting up the NIC is easy (ifconfig), but I'm always a little confused about the routing part. Does this sound right? > > ifconfig eth2 65.15.208.219 netmask 255.255.255.0 up > route add -net 65.15.208.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 -gw 65.15.208.219 dev eth2 > > Of course, this would then route ALL 65.15.208.x IPs and not just the 10 IPs I want to test. I suppose I could just try this and see what happens, but anytime I start hosing around with the network interfaces on my gateway box, bad things happen... > > Any thoughts/suggestions? -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 4 15:23:11 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <3FCF92DB.7090809@comcast.net> References: <200312041711.hB4HBTC20920@crusader.real-time.com> <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3FCF92DB.7090809@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FCFA5BF.6090400@visi.com> Pentium 1 machines "_must_" have SIMM's installed in pairs. Some manufacturers (FIC) had boards with a single SDRAM or DIMM slot. P2 machine (unless other wise specified) can be installed one at a time. Some Server designs require pair installation. Sam. Todd Young wrote: > I would think most older machines are going to use either SIMMs or > DIMMs. Most SIMMs are pretty interchangable, depending upon how much > RAM the machine can handle. DIMMs on the other hand can be PC66, > PC100, or PC133 and I know for a fact that they aren't always > interchangable. Some machines HAVE to have PC66, not PC100 or PC133. > In that case you would have to look up the actual specs for that > machine or motherboard. > > rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > >> Here's a dumb question --- anybody know of a site on the web that >> provides pictures to help us tell what sort of memory our old crufty >> hardware will take? >> >> Thanks, >> r >> > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Thu Dec 4 15:10:50 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New hope for expanded Linux file system usage? In-Reply-To: <3FCF9378.1060409@comcast.net>; from auditodd@comcast.net on Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 02:05:12PM -0600 References: <3FCF9378.1060409@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031204151050.A19024@thinkunix.net> cute. how long before they claim that Thomas Edison was one of their employees and that they own the rights to electricity? or the numbers 0 and 1.... Todd Young wrote: > Looks like Mico$oft is pulling another fast one on the electronics industry: > http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/tech/fat.asp > Soooooo, I wonder how many manufacturers will tell M$ to stuff it and > move to one of the Linux file systems?? -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Thu Dec 4 17:16:09 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD Writer, tips to test on Linux? Message-ID: <20031204231609.GA24774@karl> Looking for tips on how to test out this new DVD writer I bought. Picked up a cheap DVD writer, an impulse buy at Office Max. It's a Micro Advantage IDE Internal DVD -+R/+-RW(Model:4DVDRW-B13), 2MB buffer. Sold for $130, $80 after $50 rebate. I'm running Debian unstable. I want to test if it works for data backups. Got 10 DVD-R disks. Have not found anything on compatibility with linux from google. I have not opened the unit or disks yet. dvdrecord/unstable(V1.11a15) the right tool? Would a good starting point be to make a big ISO(2-4G in size) image, then use dvdrecord to write it?(Try dummy mode first) Can I do -multi ? Any tips from those who have burned some DVD coasters? Thanks, Karl. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Dec 4 15:18:02 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing out Public IP's In-Reply-To: <20031204144453.12f2665d.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031204144453.12f2665d.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > Setting up the NIC is easy (ifconfig), but I'm always a little confused > about the routing part. Does this sound right? > > ifconfig eth2 65.15.208.219 netmask 255.255.255.0 up > route add -net 65.15.208.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 -gw 65.15.208.219 dev eth2 > > Of course, this would then route ALL 65.15.208.x IPs and not just the 10 > IPs I want to test. I suppose I could just try this and see what > happens, but anytime I start hosing around with the network interfaces > on my gateway box, bad things happen... Should work just fine, except '-gw' should just be 'gw'. Note that you usually don't need to add the subnet route, it generally gets added when you ifconfig the interface. I do this all the time before sending boxes out; works great. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 4 15:37:50 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] WooHoo Message-ID: <3FCFA92E.3030509@visi.com> I'm making progress :-) My business is _starting_ to take off and that's really good. I'm using Linux exclusively for the basic computer needs of the business. Open Office is EXCELLENT for any business needs. I'm off to receive an award at Scout Round Table tonight, Wood Badge Beading. For anyone who cares to come to the meeting. http://www.screechowl.org/scouts/roundtable/roundtable.htm Minnetonka Community Center It has a map I made with the evil giants software but it's more accurate then MapQuest maps. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Dec 4 15:48:48 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SOLVED heavy processor use after lots of HD reads/writes In-Reply-To: <200312041354.57701.barnabas@knicknack.net> References: <20031204000609.0cd771eb.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031204122826.GB9961@refried.org> <20031204122145.7406820c.ston0235@umn.edu> <200312041354.57701.barnabas@knicknack.net> Message-ID: <20031204214848.GH13012@fandre.com> Here's a nice O'Reilly article: http://linux.oreillynet.com/lpt/a/linux/2000/06/29/hdparm.html On Thu, 04 Dec 2003, Eric Stanley wrote: > Ian, > > Could you please send us the URL for that page. I'm having some problems that > I believe may be related to disk performance. Once in a while, my system > will freeze. The thing that always happens when it thaws is that the disk > light goes one. > > Thanks, > > Eric > > On Thursday 04 December 2003 12:21, Ian Stoner wrote: > > > > > That nailed it! Thanks, Nate. I had never heard of hdparm--I found a > > webpage that recommended some likely safe settings, tried them, and got > > a more than 5-fold increase in buffered disc reads. I've included the > > output of the commands I ran, in case anyone cares. Maybe I'm the only > > one who's never heard of hdparm? If anyone knows of any other > > parameters I should pay attention to, please advise. > > > > Thanks again! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Thu Dec 4 15:15:44 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <16335.39743.197101.482645@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 rpgoldman wrote: > Well, I've just got an antique Dell, working as my slimp3 server, and > no good idea how to determine what mobo it has.... Oh. Does the machine have a Dell model # on it? If so, most memory sites usually have entries for those, too. Or, if you're really unlucky, maybe you'll have to try looking up the Service Tag (if it's still attached/readable) on Dell's site. Depending on the age, it may or may not have useful information. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeffr at odeon.net Thu Dec 4 15:33:25 2003 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs In-Reply-To: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46F6@rye.exstream.com> Message-ID: IIRC, Sistina was working on a project called GFS, and they eventually changed it to a non-open source project. A group is working from the last open source release of GFS at http://opengfs.sourceforge.net/ Also, last time I looked (a couple of years ago) GFS/OpenGFS didn't support running samba or nfs on the gfs distributed file system. You may want to check with Sistina to see if this has changed for their code base. If it has, and you're looking for a turnkey product, then they may be your best option. Something else that may be useful is NBD http://www.xss.co.at/linux/NBD/ The Network Block Device project would let you aggregate the disk space from several different systems over a network to a master system, and then export all of that storage space via nfs or samba or some other protocol to all of your other systems. There's also AFS and Coda. http://www.unc.edu/atn/dci/dci_components/afs/ http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/ I've played with nbd a little, but nothing in a production environment. It doesn't provide any sort of data integretity checking like the others do. You could however do software raid across your nbd providing systems, which would provide at least some redundancy. In other words, you'd have for example 4 storage servers, each with some form of redundant storage (raid 5 probably, either hardware or software). Then, on your master server you build a software raid 5 out of the nbd storage servers, losing 1 server's worth of storage but protecting against any one storage server failing. Of course, your master server is still a single point of failure, as is the network switch for your storage lan. I don't know how any of these solutions perform for day to day usage. Jeff On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Brent Friedman wrote: > I was asked to look into feasibility for setting up a Linux (or *bsd) > based SAN. I know there have been some kernel mods for this kind of > stuff, but I don't know their current status, and quick googles show > something called netMD at a conference in ottawa, but no website for it. > I used to work at the Utech Center near campus, and I think the people > at Sistina were doing something like this. > > Because of various development environments, I need the SAN to be > reachable from anything (meaning Windoze, AIX, Solaris or other Linux > boxen). I am not very versant in vfs, lvm, etc., but I have the time to > deal with a manual. > > Any comments on what will/won't work, or suggestions on sites/mailing > lists for linux SANs? > > Thanks, > > Brent Friedman > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Thu Dec 4 16:02:31 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD Writer, tips to test on Linux? In-Reply-To: <20031204231609.GA24774@karl> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Karl Bongers wrote: > Looking for tips on how to test out this new DVD writer I bought. I haven't tried it with -R, but dvd+rw-tools reportedly supports it (in general, dunno about your particular model): http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/linux/DVD+RW/ Works great for +R, that I've seen. :) Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Thu Dec 4 15:48:35 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs In-Reply-To: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46F6@rye.exstream.com> References: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46F6@rye.exstream.com> Message-ID: <20031204214835.GA20517@refried.org> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 01:25:23PM -0500, Brent Friedman wrote: > I was asked to look into feasibility for setting up a Linux (or *bsd) > based SAN. 1. What do you want to do with the SAN? 2. How much do you want to spend? The first thing you should know is that SANs are pricey. Fibre channel is not cheap and neither are the switches and disks. > Because of various development environments, I need the SAN to be > reachable from anything (meaning Windoze, AIX, Solaris or other Linux > boxen). I'm not sure how other products are doing with heterogenious environments but CXFS[1] should cover what you want. It just needs a more expensive server than most. Believe it or not, the Twin Cities probably has the highest concentration of SAN and file system experience in the world. Heck, we could probably have a pretty busy Storage BOF just from LUG members. Nate [1] http://www.sgi.com/products/storage/tech/file_systems.html _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Dec 4 15:57:06 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD Writer, tips to test on Linux? Message-ID: Karl, I don't know about it, but I witnessed a recent IRC conversation on the topic: I can write the whole shebang to a dvd :) Can you boot from a DVD using the El-Torito format? KainX: yes Mmmm, DVD++ just run mkisofs the same as per cd then use either dvdrecord or cdrecord --dvdhack depending on distro (my experience is rh & mandrake) possibly with a -dao option I hated that darned mkisofs command line, so I wrote mediatool to save me typing. mediatool -i foo.iso -D distro-root <-- Lazy bum I just use strings on the iso image , near the top it saves the command line it was made with :) Good luck, Troy >>> kbongers@mninter.net 12/04/03 05:16PM >>> Looking for tips on how to test out this new DVD writer I bought. Picked up a cheap DVD writer, an impulse buy at Office Max. It's a Micro Advantage IDE Internal DVD -+R/+-RW(Model:4DVDRW-B13), 2MB buffer. Sold for $130, $80 after $50 rebate. I'm running Debian unstable. I want to test if it works for data backups. Got 10 DVD-R disks. Have not found anything on compatibility with linux from google. I have not opened the unit or disks yet. dvdrecord/unstable(V1.11a15) the right tool? Would a good starting point be to make a big ISO(2-4G in size) image, then use dvdrecord to write it?(Try dummy mode first) Can I do -multi ? Any tips from those who have burned some DVD coasters? Thanks, Karl. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Dec 4 15:18:51 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <16335.39743.197101.482645@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200312041711.hB4HBTC20920@crusader.real-time.com> <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16335.39743.197101.482645@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > Well, I've just got an antique Dell, working as my slimp3 server, and no > good idea how to determine what mobo it has.... Even easier, then. Punch in the Dell model number at Crucial, it'll tell you what'cha need. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Thu Dec 4 15:58:41 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New hope for expanded Linux file system usage? In-Reply-To: <20031204151050.A19024@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Scot Jenkins wrote: > cute. how long before they claim that Thomas Edison was one of their > employees and that they own the rights to electricity? or the numbers 0 > and 1.... err... the FAT filesystem may not be anything special and it is probably ripped off of CP/M but it is still a Microsoft Filesystem, linux, OS2, *nix and everything else under the sun has been using it/been able to use it because it is very simple and stupid and easily reverse engineered. fortunately for us and unfortunately for microsoft they will most likely not be able to force royalty payments out of people (if that is their intent) I am not a lawyer but i seem to remember reading somewhere that if one does not enforce their patents and the technology becomes mainstream they lose the ability to enforce the patents. -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Dec 4 16:02:09 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs In-Reply-To: References: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46F6@rye.exstream.com> Message-ID: <20031204220209.GJ13012@fandre.com> Wow, so much information but nobody to present it. Would one of you "fountains of knowledge" be willing to give a quick overview at this Saturday's meeting? On Thu, 04 Dec 2003, jeffr@odeon.net wrote: > > IIRC, Sistina was working on a project called GFS, and they eventually > changed it to a non-open source project. A group is working from the last > open source release of GFS at http://opengfs.sourceforge.net/ > > Also, last time I looked (a couple of years ago) GFS/OpenGFS didn't > support running samba or nfs on the gfs distributed file system. You may > want to check with Sistina to see if this has changed for their code base. > If it has, and you're looking for a turnkey product, then they may be your > best option. > > Something else that may be useful is NBD http://www.xss.co.at/linux/NBD/ > > The Network Block Device project would let you aggregate the disk space > from several different systems over a network to a master system, and then > export all of that storage space via nfs or samba or some other protocol > to all of your other systems. > > There's also AFS and Coda. > > http://www.unc.edu/atn/dci/dci_components/afs/ > > http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/ > > I've played with nbd a little, but nothing in a production environment. > It doesn't provide any sort of data integretity checking like the others > do. You could however do software raid across your nbd providing systems, > which would provide at least some redundancy. > > In other words, you'd have for example 4 storage servers, each with some > form of redundant storage (raid 5 probably, either hardware or software). > Then, on your master server you build a software raid 5 out of the nbd > storage servers, losing 1 server's worth of storage but protecting against > any one storage server failing. Of course, your master server is still a > single point of failure, as is the network switch for your storage lan. > > I don't know how any of these solutions perform for day to day usage. > > Jeff > > > > On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Brent Friedman wrote: > > > I was asked to look into feasibility for setting up a Linux (or *bsd) > > based SAN. I know there have been some kernel mods for this kind of > > stuff, but I don't know their current status, and quick googles show > > something called netMD at a conference in ottawa, but no website for it. > > I used to work at the Utech Center near campus, and I think the people > > at Sistina were doing something like this. > > > > Because of various development environments, I need the SAN to be > > reachable from anything (meaning Windoze, AIX, Solaris or other Linux > > boxen). I am not very versant in vfs, lvm, etc., but I have the time to > > deal with a manual. > > > > Any comments on what will/won't work, or suggestions on sites/mailing > > lists for linux SANs? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Brent Friedman > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Clay Fandre email: clay at fandre.com PGP Key ID: 0x50DBBB60 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Dec 4 15:56:12 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SOLVED heavy processor use after lots of HD reads/writes In-Reply-To: <20031204214848.GH13012@fandre.com> References: <20031204000609.0cd771eb.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031204122826.GB9961@refried.org> <20031204122145.7406820c.ston0235@umn.edu> <200312041354.57701.barnabas@knicknack.net> <20031204214848.GH13012@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031204215612.GI13012@fandre.com> BTW, debian has a hwtools package that provides the init script for hdparm. On Thu, 04 Dec 2003, Clay Fandre wrote: > Here's a nice O'Reilly article: > http://linux.oreillynet.com/lpt/a/linux/2000/06/29/hdparm.html > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Thu Dec 4 16:23:12 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New hope for expanded Linux file system usage? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I am not a lawyer but i seem to remember reading somewhere that if one > does not enforce their patents and the technology becomes mainstream they > lose the ability to enforce the patents. That's copyright and trademark, I don't think it's the same with patents. (and I'd assume M$'s legal dept would have thought about this a bit before deciding to pursue it) Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Thu Dec 4 16:40:09 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs In-Reply-To: <20031204220209.GJ13012@fandre.com> References: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46F6@rye.exstream.com> <20031204220209.GJ13012@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031204224009.GB20517@refried.org> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 04:02:09PM -0600, Clay Fandre wrote: > Wow, so much information but nobody to present it. Would one of you > "fountains of knowledge" be willing to give a quick overview at this > Saturday's meeting? Since there is so much knowledge in the area about SANs and related file systems, I think a panel discussion would work best. In the area you have Sistina, SGI, Veritas, LSC, ADIC, Cray, QLogic and Seagate. If you could get 4-5 experts total from those companies you would have a great panel to talk about what SANs are and what options are out there. Give them each 10-15 minutes to explain what they have to offer then break into Q&A for the rest of the meeting. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Thu Dec 4 16:43:59 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: References: <16335.39743.197101.482645@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16335.47279.16640.462345@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Thanks! Site says 60ns 169-pin DIMM. Would I be able to use PC 100 (like the ones offered for a buck through the classifieds) as well? Sorry --- I'm a total ignoramus about hardware.... Best, r _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john4293 at umn.edu Thu Dec 4 16:50:52 2003 From: john4293 at umn.edu (Thomas Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Portable MP3/Ogg player In-Reply-To: References: <20031201164816.GF1173@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031204165052.1bbd6290.john4293@umn.edu> I used to use grip, but like nate mentioned already, the dependence on gnome libraries drove me away. Now I use crip (http://bach.dynet.com/crip/) and i like it much more that i liked grip. I prefer the [default] naming scheme it uses and several other little things. If you're still looking for software I would check it out. I believe there was a long discussion about this recently, you may want to check the archive. On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 07:56:00 -0600 Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > On another note - what does everyone use under linux to rip/encode your cd > library - I'm going ogg, and see that grip will rip and ogg stuff.... > other options? I like auto look up for names artist etc.. tags are good > too! Thomas Johnson -------------- john4293 at umn dot edu -------------- * if it's not broken, i haven't worked hard enough. * there is little truth in men but much cunning. -peter the great _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Thu Dec 4 16:53:56 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <16335.47279.16640.462345@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16335.39743.197101.482645@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16335.47279.16640.462345@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20031204225356.GC20517@refried.org> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 04:43:59PM -0600, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > Thanks! Site says 60ns 169-pin DIMM. Would I be able to use PC 100 > (like the ones offered for a buck through the classifieds) as well? Does it say anything else? 60ns sounds like either FPM[1] or EDO[2] RAM, which is pretty old. I don't think PC100 (referred to as SDRAM) will work. Nate [1] Fast Page Mode [2] Extended Data Out _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From squack at mchsi.com Thu Dec 4 17:23:17 2003 From: squack at mchsi.com (Squack) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <200312041657.hB4Gv7W20689@crusader.real-time.com> References: <200312041657.hB4Gv7W20689@crusader.real-time.com> Message-ID: <1070580197.1438.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Would be interested in both. How much? email me off list. Squack On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 10:57, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > New TCLUG Classified Ad > > Category: Computer > > Type of Ad: For Sale > > Subject: Project Laptop Computers > > I have 2 project laptops for sale. > 15 dollars or best offer for each laptop. > 1 > Panasonic ToughBook CF-27 untested > This is a tank of a laptop for harsh environments. > PII 300mhz 64mb ram > This is basically a shell > No HD, FDD, or CDROM drives > the HD caddy is in the machine > No battery or AC adapter > > > Several web sites for this machine > I'll post to the group or you directly with them if interested. > 2 > Compaq Armada 7770 tested > This laptop looks and works fine. > Pentium 233mmx 64mb ram > Internal 33.6 fax/modem > No HD, FDD, or CDROM drives > the HD caddy is in the machine > Battery works, I don't know how long. > Needs the plug as it has an internal power supply. > Check ebay and compaq sites. > > Sam. > > http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Thu Dec 4 18:59:09 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IMAP servers? In-Reply-To: <1069793250.7247.970.camel@bigtime> References: <200311242131.59084@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <1069793250.7247.970.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <200312041859.09204@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Tuesday 25 November 2003 02:47 pm, Callum Lerwick wrote: > On Mon, 2003-11-24 at 21:31, Bob Tanner wrote: > > Been running courier-imap for about 2 years now. No complaints, but I > > thought I'd ask for comments on IMAP servers out there today. > > > > Comments? > > Whats wrong with courier? Nothing. Just making sure there isn't something signficantly better out there. One of the good things about OSS is that in a very short time something can improve so much that the encumbant software is almost obsolete in comparision. I just wanted to check with the community that courier is still a good choice. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Thu Dec 4 19:16:54 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Finding USB Devices In-Reply-To: <412739E8.7B6181B2.09BD8409@aol.com> References: <412739E8.7B6181B2.09BD8409@aol.com> Message-ID: <200312041916.54848@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Tuesday 25 November 2003 03:40 pm, AIRPLANEIT@aol.com wrote: > Hey guys, > > How do I find out where in /dev directory my palm pilot is connecting? It > seems every distribution assigns it to a different ttyUSB*, and now I'm > using Yellowdog, where there are 30 different possibilities. Try installing KwikDisk. it's a pretty good util for this type of stuff. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Thu Dec 4 19:18:37 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] dsl packages with a single static IP (that don'trequire you to use their NAT) In-Reply-To: <1070566482.3106.88.camel@unixws1> References: <34399.12.129.97.254.1070519274.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> <1070566482.3106.88.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <1070587117.2015.3.camel@pc-00066.7penguins.com> don't know if it is available here, but i had speakeasy in Cleveland Ohio for years and loved it... no crappy pppoe either! I had a regular DSL modem. (it didn't get the IP address) www.speakeasy.net On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 13:34, Adam Maloney wrote: > On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 12:27, Mark Courtney wrote: > > >From my shopping experience, if you get only a single static IP, the IP > > belongs to the dsl router. This can still be useful if you do port > > forwarding with the dsl router and forward the ports to a machine > > internally. This feature may or may not be supported by your current dsl > > router. > > > With most DSL nowadays, the router is doing PPP, so it gets the IP > address. The cisco's and ActionTec's (used with Qwest-based DSL) can > handle NAT or routing a block of IP's. So if you need a real, public > internet IP, and the cisco's port-forwarding features won't work, then > you'll need to pay your ISP for a block of IP's. > > I've heard of people that have put the cisco into bridging mode (just > using it as an ATM->Ethernet bridge), and ran PPP through it from their > (Linux) PC (hey, this thread just became On-Topic!) This is probably > VERY unsupported with most ISP's though. And I'm not sure what > equipment Frontier is using, but I'd bet it's not the Cisco 600 series. > But maybe you (Troy) can find a way to do this using your equipment. > > Actually, there is an ISP in town that does DSL through TDS Telecom > (a.k.a. Bridgewater, in Monticello/Big Lake). Their customers buy a > speedstream DSL modem (NOT a router), and run the built-in WinXP PPP > client (for those customers that have XP), which handles the > authentication/IP assignment. > > > > If you want a single usable static IP for a computer on the LAN side of > > the router, I think you might have to get a block of 8 IPs (5 are usable). > > I'm not a Cisco wizard, so if I'm wrong here, my feelings won't be hurt > > if somebody corrects me. > > > > I'm just tryin' to share some knows in hopes that somebody will gimme an > > answer to my "sendmail time warp" thread. > > > > > > Mark Courtney > > > > http://www.MarkCourtney.com > > > > __ > > +|oo|+ > > +|oo|+ > > || > > || > > || > > || > > || > > || > > _ || _ > > \\_||_// > > | [] | > > | || | > > / [] \ > > \______/ > > > > > Hi List, > > > > > > I have been using Covad DSL very happily for a year and > > > a half at 1.5mb/128kb for $50/mo. I would like to get a > > > static IP address for a few reasons, so I looked at their > > > upgrade options. I can get 1.5mb/256mb and 1 static IP > > > for $70/mo, but I have been told I have to use their NAT > > > (on the DSL router). This is NOT what I want. For $80/mo > > > I can get the same bandwidth and 5 static IPs and not > > > have to use their NAT. That and they say I have to cancel > > > my current DSL, and when it is "totally cancelled" they can > > > order the new service (which I interpret as "there will be > > > a delay between the end and start of the services, and > > > we don't know how long that will be"). > > > > > > Now, that may be true, but it make me want to look for > > > other options. I looked at speakeasy.net, and they look > > > nice, but I wanted to ask here first: > > > > > > Is there anybody using a DSL service with a static IP at > > > around this price range and do you like it? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Troy > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Thu Dec 4 19:39:21 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YDL and Airport? In-Reply-To: <20031204181236.GA31058@autonomous.tv> References: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <1070505327.25594.5.camel@pc-00070.7penguins.com> <20031203230120.A32424@thinkunix.net> <20031204181236.GA31058@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <1070588361.2015.7.camel@pc-00066.7penguins.com> thanks guys, yep, no firewall.. it is working now.. i had to run off encryption for now.. not too worrying since I limit access to my hw macs. It did seem to be eth0 though.. as soon as I killed eth0 I could ping. I chanced upon the solution late last night, but now reading this i see WHY it happened.. Thanks! c On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 12:12, Spencer Butler wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 11:01:20PM -0600, Scot Jenkins wrote: > >is there a firewall that's active by default on that system? > >if it's running a Linux 2.4.x kernel try this: > > > ># display current firewall rules > >iptables -L -n > > > ># to disable the firewall completely > >iptables -P INPUT ACCEPT > >iptables -P OUTPUT ACCEPT > >iptables -P FORWARD ACCEPT > > > >You'll have to look at yellodog's documentation for the proper way to > >disable the firewall, assuming that's the problem. > > > >Christopher Smith wrote: > >> has anyone used an ibook with yellowdob 3.0? > >> I can't seem to get the airport card to work. it will get an ip address > >> and report signal, but when i try to ping out from that interface (eth1) > >> it fails... i have tried both encrypted and nonencrypted... what could i > >> be missing? > > I have run into something suspiciously close to this. The culprit was > eth0. If eth0 is configured, and the default route is using this iface, > the packets from eth1 are not going to make it out of your subnet. I > would check: > /sbin/route -n > See what the iface of the default route is set to. If indeed it is > using eth0 then do something like. > /sbin/ifdown eth0 > > Depending on your needs, you may want to edit your > /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ to reflect what you use most often (ie. > disable the auto enabling of eth0 if you are not going to use it > everytime you boot.) It is quite easy to just /sbin/ifup ethN when you > need an iface up. > > This is, of course, after you make sure you are not firewalling yourself > in. ;-) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Thu Dec 4 19:59:30 2003 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New hope for expanded Linux file system usage? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200312041959.30683.barnabas@knicknack.net> IAANAL (I also am not a lawyer), but the earliest patent listed on http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/tech/fat.asp was applied for in 1995 and granted in 1996. I suspect that the late date will make it harder to enforce. Eric On Thursday 04 December 2003 16:23, Matt Murphy wrote: > > I am not a lawyer but i seem to remember reading somewhere that if one > > does not enforce their patents and the technology becomes mainstream they > > lose the ability to enforce the patents. > > That's copyright and trademark, I don't think it's the same with patents. > (and I'd assume M$'s legal dept would have thought about this a bit before > deciding to pursue it) > > Matt > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Dec 4 09:48:38 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] December TCLUG Meeting Message-ID: <20031204154838.GA9398@fandre.com> So I never actually found a speaker or a topic, but we'll have a meeting anyway. Why don't we call the topic "What I've done with Linux over my summer vacation"? We can go around the room telling about how we have been using Linux. When: Saturday December 6th, 2003, noon - 2pm Topic: What I did with Linux over my summer vacation. Where: University of Minnesota Electrical Engineering/Computer Science Building Room EE-CS 3-180 Map: http://onestop.umn.edu/Maps/EECSci/index.html _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mteff at frontiernet.net Thu Dec 4 20:13:22 2003 From: mteff at frontiernet.net (mteff@frontiernet.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VPN Client for Linux Message-ID: <1070590402.3wnq7jrzufnk@webmail.frontiernet.net> Can anyone recommend a VPN client for Red Hat 9? Thanks.. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Thu Dec 4 20:38:41 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help installing Request Tracker (RT) Digest-MD5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200312042038.41379@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Monday 01 December 2003 07:44 pm, Chris Schumann wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm trying to install request tracker (bestpractical.com/rt) and > am having serious problems getting all the perl modules to load > and install. I have a .spec file in kde-redhat/fedora's cvs tree. http://kde-redhat.sf.net Within cvs are all the depends you need as well. I'm still working some of the issues, but it will give you a start. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Thu Dec 4 15:44:58 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD Writer, tips to test on Linux? In-Reply-To: References: <20031204231609.GA24774@karl> Message-ID: <20031204214458.GA716@duron.turboland.com> thanks Jima, Troy for the replys. Just burned my first DVD-R data disk with dvdrecord, worked great :) Will be experimenting with the different media soon, picked up some DVD+RW. Will also be looking into making DVD video player compatible disks. Have been using VideoCD for a while now, but it is a tad grainy. scsidev: '0,0,0' scsibus: 0 target: 0 lun: 0 Linux sg driver version: 3.1.22 dvdrecord: Warning: using inofficial version of libscg (bero-0.5a '@(#)scsitransp.c 1.81 01/04/20 Copyright 1988,1995,2000 J. Schilling'). dvdrtools v0.1.4 Portions (c) 2002-2003 Ark Linux This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under ... Based on: Cdrecord 1.11a15 (i386-pc-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2001 Jörg Schilling TOC Type: 1 = CD-ROM Using libscg version 'bero-0.5a' Driveropts: 'burnfree' atapi: 1 Device type : Removable CD-ROM Version : 0 Response Format: 1 Vendor_info : 'DVDRW ' Identifikation : 'IDE1004 ' Revision : '0038' Device seems to be: Generic mmc2 DVD. Using generic SCSI-3/mmc DVD-R(W) driver (mmc_mdvd). Driver flags : SWABAUDIO BURNFREE Supported modes: PACKET SAO Drive buf size : 1376256 = 1344 KB FIFO size : 4194304 = 4096 KB Track 01: data 4356 MB Total size: 5003 MB (495:40.41) = 2230531 sectors Lout start: 5003 MB (495:42/31) = 2230531 sectors Current Secsize: 2048 ATIP start of lead in: -150 (00:00/00) Disk type: unknown dye (reserved id code) Manuf. index: -1 Manufacturer: unknown (not in table) Blocks total: 2298496 Blocks current: 2298496 Blocks remaining: 67965 Waiting for reader process to fill input buffer ... dvdrecord: Turning BURN-Free on input buffer ready. trackno=0 BURN-Free is OFF. Performing OPC... Sending CUE sheet... dvdrecord: WARNING: Drive returns wrong startsec (0) using -150 Starting new track at sector: 0 @01T004356 @01:000001 @01:000002 @01:000003 ... @01:004354 @01:004355 @01:004356 Track 01: Total bytes read/written: 4568127488/4568127488 (2230531 sectors). Writing time: 838.666s Fixating... Fixating time: 20.144s dvdrecord: fifo had 71953 puts and 71953 gets. dvdrecord: fifo was 0 times empty and 27521 times full, min fill was 85%. On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 04:02:31PM -0600, Jima wrote: > On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Karl Bongers wrote: > > Looking for tips on how to test out this new DVD writer I bought. > > I haven't tried it with -R, but dvd+rw-tools reportedly supports it (in > general, dunno about your particular model): > > http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/linux/DVD+RW/ > > Works great for +R, that I've seen. :) > > Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tom at 1337consulting.net Thu Dec 4 22:30:21 2003 From: tom at 1337consulting.net (Thomas J. Hudak) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IMAP servers? In-Reply-To: <200312041859.09204@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311242131.59084@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <1069793250.7247.970.camel@bigtime> <200312041859.09204@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <1070598621.26159.38.camel@daedalus.1337consulting.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Thu Dec 4 22:36:54 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Mike J.) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] dsl packages with a single static IP (that don't require you to use their NAT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FD00B66.3040004@jentges.NET> Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Hi List, > > Is there anybody using a DSL service with a static IP at > around this price range and do you like it? Well if I understand the 'their nat' portion of this correctly, Qwest/Skypoint - Works great! Qwest/Visi Yeah Yeah Qwest, I know. But hey, the guy asked. :) -mj _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ston0235 at umn.edu Thu Dec 4 23:07:34 2003 From: ston0235 at umn.edu (Ian Stoner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SOLVED heavy processor use after lots of HD reads/writes In-Reply-To: <200312041354.57701.barnabas@knicknack.net> References: <20031204000609.0cd771eb.ston0235@umn.edu> <20031204122826.GB9961@refried.org> <20031204122145.7406820c.ston0235@umn.edu> <200312041354.57701.barnabas@knicknack.net> Message-ID: <20031204230734.09cc2096.ston0235@umn.edu> On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:54:57 -0600 Eric Stanley wrote: > Could you please send us the URL for that page. I'm having some > problems that I believe may be related to disk performance. Once in a > while, my system will freeze. The thing that always happens when it > thaws is that the disk light goes one. Oops--meant to include the link in my previous post. Clay beat me to it, though. The article I read is the O'Reilly page he pointed to, which is at http://linux.oreillynet.com/lpt/a/272 -- Ian Stoner Philosophy Department University of Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Thu Dec 4 23:06:55 2003 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Palm interface to Slashdot gone? Message-ID: <16336.4719.852257.376583@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Does anyone know what happened to the palm interface to slashdot? It used to be at http://slashdot.org/palm, but for the past month or so it hasn't been loading. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Thu Dec 4 23:38:31 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD Writer, tips to test on Linux? In-Reply-To: <20031204214458.GA716@duron.turboland.com> References: <20031204231609.GA24774@karl> <20031204214458.GA716@duron.turboland.com> Message-ID: <200312042338.31215.jack@jacku.com> On Thursday 04 December 2003 03:44 pm, Karl Bongers wrote: > thanks Jima, Troy for the replys. > Just burned my first DVD-R data disk with dvdrecord, worked great :) > Will be experimenting with the different media soon, picked up some > DVD+RW. Will also be looking into making DVD video player compatible > disks. Have been using VideoCD for a while now, but it is a tad grainy. > The current issue of Linux Journal has some articles dealing with DVD authoring. If you don't get it you might want to take a look. Specifically there was an article about adding menus to DVDs. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Dec 4 23:42:34 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (natecars@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VPN Client for Linux In-Reply-To: <1070590402.3wnq7jrzufnk@webmail.frontiernet.net> References: <1070590402.3wnq7jrzufnk@webmail.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, mteff@frontiernet.net wrote: > Can anyone recommend a VPN client for Red Hat 9? Sure, if you tell us what type of server you want to connect to. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Fri Dec 5 00:28:09 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] References: <16335.39743.197101.482645@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16335.47279.16640.462345@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3FD02579.20605@cleosci.com> That doesn't make any sense (unless it's a total non-standard)! There were 168 pin DIMMS, but the're far faster than 60ns; however, 72 pin SIMMS reached 50ns with many commonly at 60ns and 70ns. The two are completely different forms/sizes though. Niether of those would be PC100 equivalent. Garrett rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >Thanks! Site says 60ns 169-pin DIMM. Would I be able to use PC 100 >(like the ones offered for a buck through the classifieds) as well? >Sorry --- I'm a total ignoramus about hardware.... > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Dec 5 01:07:57 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <1070580197.1438.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200312041657.hB4Gv7W20689@crusader.real-time.com> <1070580197.1438.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FD02ECD.9070503@visi.com> The laptops have been sold at this time. Sam. Squack wrote: >Would be interested in both. How much? email me off list. > >Squack > > > >On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 10:57, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > > >>New TCLUG Classified Ad >> >>Category: Computer >> >>Type of Ad: For Sale >> >>Subject: Project Laptop Computers >> >>I have 2 project laptops for sale. >>15 dollars or best offer for each laptop. >>1 >>Panasonic ToughBook CF-27 untested >>This is a tank of a laptop for harsh environments. >>PII 300mhz 64mb ram >>This is basically a shell >>No HD, FDD, or CDROM drives >>the HD caddy is in the machine >>No battery or AC adapter >> >> >>Several web sites for this machine >>I'll post to the group or you directly with them if interested. >>2 >>Compaq Armada 7770 tested >>This laptop looks and works fine. >>Pentium 233mmx 64mb ram >>Internal 33.6 fax/modem >>No HD, FDD, or CDROM drives >>the HD caddy is in the machine >>Battery works, I don't know how long. >>Needs the plug as it has an internal power supply. >>Check ebay and compaq sites. >> >>Sam. >> >>http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Dec 5 01:32:55 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <3FD02579.20605@cleosci.com> References: <16335.39743.197101.482645@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16335.47279.16640.462345@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3FD02579.20605@cleosci.com> Message-ID: <3FD034A7.5090201@visi.com> The reason it doesn't make sense is because the machine may be able to use both SIMM's and DIMM's. I have 3 pentium machines that can use either 72 pin SIMM's or a single 168 pin DIMM. This was not unusual in the Pentium/Pentium Pro days. The Pentium Pro introduced microcode in to the processor line that was compatible backwards. So they used it in the Pentium 166, 200 late models and 233 chips. They also changed the the microcode in the BIOS (basic input output system) to make the processor and new memory work. This didn't always work as expected, 2 of the three machines I talked about above can't "CAN'T" run W98. I can load NT, W95, Linux, or even OS2. W98 had major memory management changes in it. Even FIC the manufacture of the boards said they are not compatible with W98. After I called them and demanded to know why, they said it was an issue with memory management. Go Figure, the name of the boards "VX98", with a name like that they should be compatible when W98 comes out in 5 months right? Each of these machines can use PC66 Ram (168pin) or 50ns 72 pin SIMM's. I keep knoding off. Sam gkrueger wrote: > That doesn't make any sense (unless it's a total non-standard)! There > were 168 pin DIMMS, but the're far faster than 60ns; however, 72 pin > SIMMS reached 50ns with many commonly at 60ns and 70ns. The two are > completely different forms/sizes though. Niether of those would be > PC100 equivalent. > > Garrett > > rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > >> Thanks! Site says 60ns 169-pin DIMM. Would I be able to use PC 100 >> (like the ones offered for a buck through the classifieds) as well? >> Sorry --- I'm a total ignoramus about hardware.... >> >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Fri Dec 5 02:35:22 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail time warp In-Reply-To: <1070566657.3106.90.camel@unixws1> References: <1070566657.3106.90.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <1070613322.13993.1232.camel@lotsa> On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 13:37, Adam Maloney wrote: > CST is -0600. Earth spins to the right :) No, it spins to the left, my chair faces south :) > On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 12:59, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > Mark, > > > > This time is not correct. Unless you are somewhere in Asia, I think. > > > > If you are in MN, you should see something like: > > > > CST > > > > instead of: > > > > GMT-6 > > > > Because 'CST' is like 'GMT+6', your "off by 12 hours" > > problem is most likely a timezone misconfiguration. > > > > Since you are on RedHat run: > > > > /usr/bin/tzselect > > > > at a prompt or: > > > > /usr/bin/redhat-config-time > > > > in X. If that doesn't it, send the output of: > > > > cat /etc/sysconfig/clock > > > > to the list. > > > > Good luck, > > > > Troy > > > > >>> MarkCourtney@MarkCourtney.com 12/04/03 10:44AM >>> > > It is as far as I can tell. Doesn't sendmail use the system time > > settings? > > > > $ date > > Thu Dec 4 10:39:47 GMT-6 2003 > > > > > > Mark Courtney > > > > http://www.MarkCourtney.com > > > > __ > > +|oo|+ > > +|oo|+ > > || > > || > > || > > || > > || > > || > > _ || _ > > \\_||_// > > | [] | > > | || | > > / [] \ > > \______/ > > > > > Is your timezone set right? > > > > > > Adam Maloney > > > Systems Administrator > > > Sihope Communications > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Mark Courtney wrote: > > > > > >> How do I get the time on my e-mails to be right? It seems kinda > > strange > > >> getting e-mails from the future. The time on the server is set > > right if > > >> I > > >> issue a `date` command, but the message in Squirellmail are 12 > > hours > > >> off. > > >> The 12 hour time warp is also in effect if I use Ximian Evolution. > > >> > > >> I'm using RH 7.2 with the default sendmail (and all the patches - > > no > > >> flames please). > > >> > > >> Can somebody please tell me how to remedy this? I've googled to no > > >> avail. > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks LUG'ers > > >> > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Fri Dec 5 06:50:40 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (rick ) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] installfest / distro server? Message-ID: <200312050650.AA1814430012@mail.eworld3.net> Everything Scot has said here is correct. I'm in Baltimore now on a contract so I can't monitor the list as much as I'd like. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Scot Jenkins Reply-To: Scot Jenkins ,TCLUG Mailing List Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:05:32 -0600 >We originally had a Pentium Pro200 in an old Gateway full tower case >donated by David Schiff I believe (sorry if I screw up your name David). >Rick and I spent > a day setting it up. I hauled it to the last >installfest at the U but there wasn't much interest in due the the lan >party happening that day/time. We did try to fire it up to burn some >cdr's but the root disk was blown. It ran for over a week at my house >with no problems, but drives die. > >Rick Meyerhoff picked up a bunch of parts from me a couple weeks ago and >is working on building a replacement server. He got a better cpu, more >memory, etc donated by another generous TCLUGer. I know Rick was busy >with some contract work in Dec and there was talk of working on the >installfest server again in January. > >John J. Trammell wrote: >> I recall a fair amount of talk re: a dedicated installfest >> server. Is anyone actually putting one together? > >-- >scot > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Fri Dec 5 06:53:18 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (rick ) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] installfest / distro server? Message-ID: <200312050653.AA1816658236@mail.eworld3.net> Everything Scot has said here is correct. I'm in Baltimore now on a contract and probably won't be able to work on the server again until the end of January. Scot, I have installed the cdr, floppy, hd, nic that i got from you but i have not booted or tested it at all. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Scot Jenkins Reply-To: Scot Jenkins ,TCLUG Mailing List Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:05:32 -0600 >We originally had a Pentium Pro200 in an old Gateway full tower case >donated by David Schiff I believe (sorry if I screw up your name David). >Rick and I spent > a day setting it up. I hauled it to the last >installfest at the U but there wasn't much interest in due the the lan >party happening that day/time. We did try to fire it up to burn some >cdr's but the root disk was blown. It ran for over a week at my house >with no problems, but drives die. > >Rick Meyerhoff picked up a bunch of parts from me a couple weeks ago and >is working on building a replacement server. He got a better cpu, more >memory, etc donated by another generous TCLUGer. I know Rick was busy >with some contract work in Dec and there was talk of working on the >installfest server again in January. > >John J. Trammell wrote: >> I recall a fair amount of talk re: a dedicated installfest >> server. Is anyone actually putting one together? > >-- >scot > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Fri Dec 5 07:39:28 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network booting redhat Message-ID: <3FD08A90.80502@structural-wood.com> Apparently I've killed a brain cell. At any rate: I've got a PC that I want to try a RedHat 9 install on. It doesn't have a floppy or CD on it. It does have a BOOTROM with etherboot on it. It seems like in the past I did something like: - Set up dhcpd.conf to supply a kernel name and some parameters: group { use-host-decl-names on; option root-path "192.168.164.47:/distros/shrike"; filename "/rh-netinstall/vmlinuz.nb"; host wildeb {fixed-address wildeb;hardware ethernet 00:40:05:34:c6:f9;} } - Setup tftp - Create a tagged image from the kernel and initrd.img supplied by redhat in the images/pxeboot mkelf-linux --rootdir=rom vmlinuz initrd.img >/tftpboot/rh-netinstall/vmlinuz.nb - Copy the distro cds to a directory (/distros/shrike) - Setup nfs to export /distros/shrike At this point I reboot the PC, it loads vmlinuz.nb and stops with the message: Top of ramdisk is 0x07c000000 Ramdisk at 0x796b000, size 0x00295000 I seem to remember that I need either more parameters passed via DHCP or mkelf, but I can't remember what, and my bash history doesn't seem to go back more than about a month (I need it to go back about 3 years). Hep me Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Fri Dec 5 07:39:43 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VPN Client for Linux In-Reply-To: References: <1070590402.3wnq7jrzufnk@webmail.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <1070631583.1695.1.camel@pc-00066.7penguins.com> yeah, that is probably MORE important. are you going to be administering both sides? lots to consider. At the moment, I am enamored with openvpn. On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 23:42, natecars@real-time.com wrote: > On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, mteff@frontiernet.net wrote: > > Can anyone recommend a VPN client for Red Hat 9? > > Sure, if you tell us what type of server you want to connect to. :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Dec 5 07:59:57 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <20031205133932.GB29638@fandre.com> References: <200312041657.hB4Gv7W20689@crusader.real-time.com> <1070580197.1438.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3FD02ECD.9070503@visi.com> <20031205133932.GB29638@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3FD08F5D.1050106@visi.com> I deleted the add for the laptops, but.... When I deleted the add for the laptops and the message was "You have no adds". I thought "lets see if this is true" as I have several adds. The other adds are still there so the message was just a funny way of waking me up this morning. I haven't had nearly enough coffee so seeing that message was an eye opener =-O Sam. Clay Fandre wrote: >Why don't you remove the ad from the classifieds? That should serve as >a notice that they have been sold. > >-- Clay > >On Fri, 05 Dec 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > >>The laptops have been sold at this time. >> >>Sam. >> >>Squack wrote: >> >> >> >>>Would be interested in both. How much? email me off list. >>> >>>Squack >>> >>> >>> >>>On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 10:57, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>New TCLUG Classified Ad >>>> >>>>Category: Computer >>>> >>>>Type of Ad: For Sale >>>> >>>>Subject: Project Laptop Computers >>>> >>>>I have 2 project laptops for sale. >>>>15 dollars or best offer for each laptop. >>>>1 >>>>Panasonic ToughBook CF-27 untested >>>>This is a tank of a laptop for harsh environments. >>>>PII 300mhz 64mb ram >>>>This is basically a shell >>>>No HD, FDD, or CDROM drives >>>>the HD caddy is in the machine >>>>No battery or AC adapter >>>> >>>> >>>>Several web sites for this machine >>>>I'll post to the group or you directly with them if interested. >>>>2 >>>>Compaq Armada 7770 tested >>>>This laptop looks and works fine. >>>>Pentium 233mmx 64mb ram >>>>Internal 33.6 fax/modem >>>>No HD, FDD, or CDROM drives >>>>the HD caddy is in the machine >>>>Battery works, I don't know how long. >>>>Needs the plug as it has an internal power supply. >>>>Check ebay and compaq sites. >>>> >>>>Sam. >>>> >>>>http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Fri Dec 5 07:51:21 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs In-Reply-To: <20031204220209.GJ13012@fandre.com> References: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46F6@rye.exstream.com> <20031204220209.GJ13012@fandre.com> Message-ID: <1070632279.5514.10.camel@unixws1> Clay, I bet the TCSA and TCBUG groups would be interested in a SAN presentation too. In fact, I bet some of the TCSA regulars have some good experience and knowledge to share too. Do you see what happened here Nate? This is how the man operates (that's Clay, the man, not "The Man") Now you're getting roped into being a speaker :) Maybe we should save this for next month's meeting, so we can give more notice. I agree with Nate, this will be a hot topic with lots of interest. That would also give Nate time to prepare his presentation, hand-outs, bake the cookies, and get the FC HBA "free samples" ordered! On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 16:02, Clay Fandre wrote: > Wow, so much information but nobody to present it. Would one of you > "fountains of knowledge" be willing to give a quick overview at this > Saturday's meeting? > > On Thu, 04 Dec 2003, jeffr@odeon.net wrote: > > > > > IIRC, Sistina was working on a project called GFS, and they eventually > > changed it to a non-open source project. A group is working from the last > > open source release of GFS at http://opengfs.sourceforge.net/ > > > > Also, last time I looked (a couple of years ago) GFS/OpenGFS didn't > > support running samba or nfs on the gfs distributed file system. You may > > want to check with Sistina to see if this has changed for their code base. > > If it has, and you're looking for a turnkey product, then they may be your > > best option. > > > > Something else that may be useful is NBD http://www.xss.co.at/linux/NBD/ > > > > The Network Block Device project would let you aggregate the disk space > > from several different systems over a network to a master system, and then > > export all of that storage space via nfs or samba or some other protocol > > to all of your other systems. > > > > There's also AFS and Coda. > > > > http://www.unc.edu/atn/dci/dci_components/afs/ > > > > http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/ > > > > I've played with nbd a little, but nothing in a production environment. > > It doesn't provide any sort of data integretity checking like the others > > do. You could however do software raid across your nbd providing systems, > > which would provide at least some redundancy. > > > > In other words, you'd have for example 4 storage servers, each with some > > form of redundant storage (raid 5 probably, either hardware or software). > > Then, on your master server you build a software raid 5 out of the nbd > > storage servers, losing 1 server's worth of storage but protecting against > > any one storage server failing. Of course, your master server is still a > > single point of failure, as is the network switch for your storage lan. > > > > I don't know how any of these solutions perform for day to day usage. > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Brent Friedman wrote: > > > > > I was asked to look into feasibility for setting up a Linux (or *bsd) > > > based SAN. I know there have been some kernel mods for this kind of > > > stuff, but I don't know their current status, and quick googles show > > > something called netMD at a conference in ottawa, but no website for it. > > > I used to work at the Utech Center near campus, and I think the people > > > at Sistina were doing something like this. > > > > > > Because of various development environments, I need the SAN to be > > > reachable from anything (meaning Windoze, AIX, Solaris or other Linux > > > boxen). I am not very versant in vfs, lvm, etc., but I have the time to > > > deal with a manual. > > > > > > Any comments on what will/won't work, or suggestions on sites/mailing > > > lists for linux SANs? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Brent Friedman > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Dec 5 08:16:31 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Interesting Use of Linux Message-ID: <3FD0933F.6040004@visi.com> I needed to get W98 from my server storage (I keep an installation directory) to Zip disk. A friend asked me to reinstall W98 on her laptop. She has the CD's but the CDROM (parallel port) she has is not working and she does not have a network, She uses dial up. (She's is not a candidate for Linux, believe me.) All of my machines have printers connected to them except my Linux laptop. So I copied W98 to my Linux laptop and created the Zip disks from there. Silly, I know but when push comes to shove, Linux saved a W98 users day! Happy Linux! Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Fri Dec 5 09:32:11 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs In-Reply-To: <1070632279.5514.10.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: > Wow, so much information but nobody to present it. Would one of you > "fountains of knowledge" be willing to give a quick overview at this > Saturday's meeting? I know a SAN engineer at seagate, I'll see if he's up for it as well... Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Fri Dec 5 09:44:51 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MRTG graphing cpu util? In-Reply-To: <3FD08A90.80502@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: Hi folks, I have MRTG graphing our router from our win2k server just fine, but I know linux can graph cpu util as well, which I'd really like to track. (I'd also like to track apache response times, but let's start with the cpu...) My question is whether there's an easy way of doing this? I'm running RedHat 9 (aka n00b linux) and it comes with net-snmp, and everything I've tried to use to do it has been a complete failure, with every RPM needing a bunch of other stuff, and at least one of those other things not installing for one reason or another that I haven't had time to figure out. I'm wondering if there's a stupid guy easy way to do this that I'm missing? Thanks, Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Fri Dec 5 09:59:37 2003 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X-Spam-Report headers (Was Re: [TCLUG] IMAP servers?) In-Reply-To: <1070598621.26159.38.camel@daedalus.1337consulting.net> (tom@1337consulting.net) References: <200311242131.59084@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <1069793250.7247.970.camel@bigtime> <200312041859.09204@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <1070598621.26159.38.camel@daedalus.1337consulting.net> Message-ID: <200312051559.hB5FxbJ12897@ecstasy.winternet.com> Thomas J. Hudak wrote: >btw Bob, there's an awful lot of header data being logged by >spamassassin for list messages with the follwing on my server: >-- >X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software,\n\trunning on the system >"pirate.real-time.com", has\n\tidentified this incoming email as >possible spam. The original message\n\thas been attached to this so you >can view it (if it isn't spam) or\n\tblock similar future email. If you >have any questions, see\n\tthe administrator of that system for >details.\n\tContent preview: >-- >followed by what appears to be the first 100 or so words of every post >to the list. My solution to this very long header in tclug-list mail is removing it with the following procmail rule: :0 fw : tclug-list-bounes.lock * ^Sender:.*tclug-list-bounces.* | formail -I "X-Spam-Report:" Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Fri Dec 5 10:05:41 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs In-Reply-To: <1070632279.5514.10.camel@unixws1> References: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46F6@rye.exstream.com> <20031204220209.GJ13012@fandre.com> <1070632279.5514.10.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <20031205160541.GC25077@fandre.com> On Fri, 05 Dec 2003, Adam Maloney wrote: > Clay, I bet the TCSA and TCBUG groups would be interested in a SAN > presentation too. In fact, I bet some of the TCSA regulars have some > good experience and knowledge to share too. > > Do you see what happened here Nate? This is how the man operates > (that's Clay, the man, not "The Man") Now you're getting roped into > being a speaker :) > Hey, I'm just following the TCLUG leaders guide to finding a speaker: 1. Ask nicely 2. Ask again 3. Beg 4. Sucker someone into speaking > Maybe we should save this for next month's meeting, so we can give more > notice. I agree with Nate, this will be a hot topic with lots of > interest. That would also give Nate time to prepare his presentation, > hand-outs, bake the cookies, and get the FC HBA "free samples" ordered! > Yea, that's probably a good idea. Let's just have an open discussion tomorrow. Maybe some of you can bring your laptops in and demo some cool desktop apps or something. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Fri Dec 5 10:12:44 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help installing Request Tracker (RT) Digest-MD5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: Bob Tanner > On Monday 01 December 2003 07:44 pm, Chris Schumann wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I'm trying to install request tracker (bestpractical.com/rt) and > > am having serious problems getting all the perl modules to load > > and install. > > I have a .spec file in kde-redhat/fedora's cvs tree. > > http://kde-redhat.sf.net > > Within cvs are all the depends you need as well. > > I'm still working some of the issues, but it will give you a start. The fix was setting LANG=en_US as a kind reader pointed out. RH9 defaulted to some UTF8 string. I went to the web page, clicked CVS then SPECS and saw a few files from you, but it was not obvious which one to use for rt. Many thanks though. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Fri Dec 5 10:12:54 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MRTG graphing cpu util? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1070640773.5514.65.camel@unixws1> I think MRTG has a bunch of "extra" graphing scripts in contrib/ It's pretty simple though. You setup your target to point at a command, like: Target[cpu]: `cat /tmp/cpu` or Target[cpu]: `uptime | awk '{ printf("%s\n%s\n", $10, $11) }' assuming your uptime output looks something like: [adamm@unixws1:~]$ uptime 10:04am up 2 day(s), 2:36, 1 user, load average: 0.40, 0.32, 0.32 On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 09:44, Matt Murphy wrote: > Hi folks, I have MRTG graphing our router from our win2k server just fine, but I know linux can graph cpu util as well, which I'd really like to track. (I'd also like to track apache response times, but let's start with the cpu...) My question is whether there's an easy way of doing this? I'm running RedHat 9 (aka n00b linux) and it comes with net-snmp, and everything I've tried to use to do it has been a complete failure, with every RPM needing a bunch of other stuff, and at least one of those other things not installing for one reason or another that I haven't had time to figure out. > > I'm wondering if there's a stupid guy easy way to do this that I'm missing? > > Thanks, > > Matt > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tom at 1337consulting.net Fri Dec 5 10:26:45 2003 From: tom at 1337consulting.net (Thomas J. Hudak) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X-Spam-Report headers (Was Re: [TCLUG] IMAP servers?) In-Reply-To: <200312051559.hB5FxbJ12897@ecstasy.winternet.com> References: <200311242131.59084@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <1069793250.7247.970.camel@bigtime> <200312041859.09204@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <1070598621.26159.38.camel@daedalus.1337consulting.net> <200312051559.hB5FxbJ12897@ecstasy.winternet.com> Message-ID: <1070641605.26159.53.camel@daedalus.1337consulting.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Fri Dec 5 10:31:21 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl @inc problem Message-ID: <002f01c3bb4d$37cf1520$590215ac@DELL2> How can a person remove the new version of perl (5.8.2)? I must have gotten it by answering yes too many times when using CPAN. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Fri Dec 5 10:38:52 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] virtua lhost question Message-ID: <003701c3bb4e$446c0940$590215ac@DELL2> I have a new 2.0.47 install of apache on a fedora box. The test page comes up fine with the standard httpd.conf. When I add the following virtual host config I have to include the exact page I am looking for or I get a 404 error. e.g without virtual host www.domainname.com gives me index.html. With the virtual host www.domainname.com gives me a 404, but www.domainname.com/index.html displays the page. What should I change for this to work? ServerName your.rt.server.hostname DocumentRoot /opt/rt3/share/html AddDefaultCharset UTF-8 # this line applies to Apache2+mod_perl2 only PerlModule Apache2 Apache::compat PerlModule Apache::DBI PerlRequire /opt/rt3/bin/webmux.pl SetHandler perl-script PerlHandler RT::Mason Raymonmd _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Fri Dec 5 11:00:06 2003 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Solaris? In-Reply-To: <20031203122409.B16346@pchelka.space.umn.edu> References: <20031203111800.45801fcc.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <20031203122409.B16346@pchelka.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <79B47BF6-2744-11D8-81D2-000A95857E06@botwerks.org> stop-a boot from the solaris installation cd with the 'boot cd(rom) -s' mount / as appropriate, modify /etc/{passwd,shadow} and reboot. On Dec 3, 2003, at 12:24 PM, Jim Crumley wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 11:18:00AM -0600, Josh Trutwin wrote: >> Otherwise, does anyone know if booting into singe user mode is >> possible to reset the root password similar to linux >> init=/bin/bash on Linux? > > Use a bootable CDROM (is there a Sparc Knoppix CD ? - if not use > the Debian rescue CD) to mount the Solaris disk, and then remove > the password for root. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Fri Dec 5 11:44:13 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG Reviews Message-ID: <20031205174413.GA26884@fandre.com> After reading through the threads about the ISPs and everyone's opinions on them, I decided to start a TCLUG Reviews page. This will allow users to easily reference things before they buy. Currently I only have a few categories, but I can always add more. I had to modify the code slightly to fit, so let me know if you experience any problems. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/reviews/index.cgi And if you submitted a ISP review on the mailing list, please submit it to the new review page if you have time. Also, for all of those users that "borrowed" books from the TCLUG library, please submit a review as well. And if you are done with the book, bring it to the meeting to someone else can use it for a while. Thanks. -- Clay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Fri Dec 5 12:20:54 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about Linux and SANs In-Reply-To: <20031205160541.GC25077@fandre.com> References: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46F6@rye.exstream.com> <20031204220209.GJ13012@fandre.com> <1070632279.5514.10.camel@unixws1> <20031205160541.GC25077@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031205182054.GA30448@refried.org> On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 10:05:41AM -0600, Clay Fandre wrote: > On Fri, 05 Dec 2003, Adam Maloney wrote: > > Clay, I bet the TCSA and TCBUG groups would be interested in a SAN > > presentation too. In fact, I bet some of the TCSA regulars have some > > good experience and knowledge to share too. Good to see other people have connections to pull on. I've started asking around, but I think it'll take a while to get answers from people. > > Do you see what happened here Nate? This is how the man operates > > (that's Clay, the man, not "The Man") Now you're getting roped into > > being a speaker :) You think I'm going to speak? Not on this one. I'll get someone else from SGI to do it. > Yea, that's probably a good idea. Let's just have an open discussion > tomorrow. Maybe some of you can bring your laptops in and demo some > cool desktop apps or something. I would push the SAN meeting out to Feb just to make sure we can get people lined up, the room firmly reserved, and enough warning so we can fill the room. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Dec 5 12:24:23 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [SOLVED] Testing out Public IP's In-Reply-To: References: <20031204144453.12f2665d.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031205122423.586af15a.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 15:18:02 -0600 (CST) Nate Carlson wrote: > On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > Does this sound right? > > ifconfig eth2 65.15.208.219 netmask 255.255.255.0 up > > route add -net 65.15.208.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 -gw 65.15.208.219 dev eth2 > > Should work just fine, except '-gw' should just be 'gw'. Note that you > usually don't need to add the subnet route, it generally gets added when > you ifconfig the interface. I do this all the time before sending boxes > out; works great. Thanks, this worked just fine. I actually did need the netmask part of the route command though. I started freaking out though, until I realized that I had the cable plugged into the router, not eth2 of the firewall/router box. Then I started freaking out again when I tried to ping out from the new server, until I remembered that I disabled pinging except from eth1 (local). A few tweeks were required in the firewall so fowarding to/from eth2 wasn't dropped by default. Great learning experience, thanks for the tips. One quick question, it turns out the gw address is 65.15.208.1, when I set up the NIC using ifconfig it seemed to set up the route information correctly on its own. Is that usually the case? Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Fri Dec 5 12:32:29 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Very interesting article on SCO's lawsuit Message-ID: <3FD0CF3D.1010506@comcast.net> This article is written by a law professor. http://www.lessig.org/blog/archives/001611.shtml#001611 -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bfriedman at exstream.com Fri Dec 5 12:53:30 2003 From: bfriedman at exstream.com (Brent Friedman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Online payments Message-ID: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46FF@rye.exstream.com> I was wondering if anyone on the list is using (or has used) paypal to accept online payments. I don't want to get a merchant account for visa/mc (really low volume expected), so I was thinking of using paypal. I have heard some bad stuff about paypal, but haven't used it myself. [The use is just to sell tshirts on a site I run for a friend, no big ecommerce stuff.} Any comments or suggestions? Thanks, Brent Friedman _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Dec 5 13:01:13 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Online payments In-Reply-To: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46FF@rye.exstream.com> References: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46FF@rye.exstream.com> Message-ID: <20031205190113.GX2167@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 01:53:30PM -0500, Brent Friedman wrote: > I was wondering if anyone on the list is using (or has used) paypal to accept online payments. > > I don't want to get a merchant account for visa/mc (really low volume expected), so I was thinking of using paypal. I have heard some bad stuff about paypal, but haven't used it myself. [The use is just to sell tshirts on a site I run for a friend, no big ecommerce stuff.} > > Any comments or suggestions? *shrug* I've heard the horror stories, but they're the same people that say that Wells Fargo is the best bank they've ever used. The only issue I ever had with paypal was a dormant account I forgot the password for, I had to jump through hoops to get a new password -- but I can't complain, considering it should be hard =) Wells Fargo, on the other hand, told me that a fishing license or sams club card was sufficient identification, all I had to do was walk across the street and get a sams club card, come back, and they would do business with me. They also refuse to actually close accounts, and allow companies (AOL) to direct debit your account for months after it's been "closed", leading to overdraft fees and credit threats. If you're worried about the safety of your $, simply move funds out of the paypal account into your bank account immediately. I believe paypal has an option to do this automatically. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel_cd at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 13:15:33 2003 From: joel_cd at yahoo.com (Joel Dick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Online payments In-Reply-To: <20031205190113.GX2167@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031205191533.81910.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> Personally I've used Paypal for a couple years and have found it to be an indispensable tool, especially when buying things on ebay. Before that, I had to do money orders and wait for that to get out to the person and all. Overall, I find paypal to be pretty secure, but watch out for emails that look official and try to get you to go to a false website and enter your information for "Security Purposes". I believe the new term for that scam is called phishing? Anyways, good luck! Joel --- "Matthew S. Hallacy" wrote: > On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 01:53:30PM -0500, Brent Friedman wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone on the list is using (or has used) paypal to > accept online payments. > > > > I don't want to get a merchant account for visa/mc (really low volume > expected), so I was thinking of using paypal. I have heard some bad > stuff about paypal, but haven't used it myself. [The use is just to > sell tshirts on a site I run for a friend, no big ecommerce stuff.} > > > > Any comments or suggestions? > > *shrug* > > I've heard the horror stories, but they're the same people that say that > Wells Fargo is the best bank they've ever used. The only issue I ever > had > with paypal was a dormant account I forgot the password for, I had to > jump through hoops to get a new password -- but I can't complain, > considering > it should be hard =) > > Wells Fargo, on the other hand, told me that a fishing license or sams > club card was sufficient identification, all I had to do was walk across > the street and get a sams club card, come back, and they would do > business > with me. > > They also refuse to actually close accounts, and allow companies (AOL) > to > direct debit your account for months after it's been "closed", leading > to > overdraft fees and credit threats. > > If you're worried about the safety of your $, simply move funds out of > the paypal account into your bank account immediately. I believe paypal > has an option to do this automatically. > > -- > Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH > Certified > http://www.poptix.net GPG public key > 0x01938203 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Dec 5 13:18:52 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Review) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Review Message-ID: <200312051918.hB5JIq610515@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Review Category: ISPs Subject: Covad ADSL I have used Covad as my DSL ISP for a year and a half. They have provided good, responsive service. 1.5mb down, 128 kb up, $50 / month, no blocked ports, service agreement allows you to provide services (http, ftp, ...) and use bandwidth as you will. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/reviews/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Fri Dec 5 13:35:10 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reviews site Message-ID: Clay, can you add a category for BeerMeeting Places? and maybe even Installfest locations? -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Fri Dec 5 16:48:19 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl @inc problem In-Reply-To: <002f01c3bb4d$37cf1520$590215ac@DELL2> References: <002f01c3bb4d$37cf1520$590215ac@DELL2> Message-ID: <20031205224819.GA31511@karl> On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 10:31:21AM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: > How can a person remove the new version of perl (5.8.2)? I must have gotten > it by answering yes too many times when using CPAN. Couldn't help but laugh, thats exactly what happened to me the first time I tried CPAN and was new to perl. CPAN and Perl are evil! Just kidding, I've really grown to enjoy perl. I'd find out what files are installed via your normal distro: rpm -qa | grep perl | more rpm -ql perl-xx | more Then maybe try uninstall/reinstall the rpm you want. Or maybe theres a rpm -fixit command or something. Look for some kind of rpm -verify perl-xx command? Delete all the perl files by hand, then try and reinstall the rpm? Can you tell I really don't know what the hell I'm doing? Thats alright, its never stopped me before :) A lot of the files won't collide, they are organized by version: /usr/lib/perl5/5.6.1/.. But the ones in /usr/bin/ could be problematic, not sure if the CPAN upgrade would write over those. Hopefully rpm could verify or fix those for you. Then there are /usr/share/man, but hey, they are man pages, probably haven't changed for 10 years :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Dec 5 14:49:43 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Online payments In-Reply-To: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46FF@rye.exstream.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Brent Friedman wrote: > I was wondering if anyone on the list is using (or has used) paypal to accept online payments. Not very much, but I think I have enough insight to help you. Paypal's bad rap is because they are a business and their number 1 goal is to make money. It's really easy to make money when people are channeling money through you. By delaying payments and holding onto your money as long as possible, they can accumulate interest on your money, and charge you for the convenience. I don't worry about it because my transactions are usually small ($50 or less) transactions, usually buying on Ebay. If you're channeling thousands of dollars through them, they're making a nice profit on you. The real problems with Paypal arise while they're hanging onto your money for you. Delayed payments are nothing compared to some stories I've heard, where Paypal actually refuses to give people their money. They have a setup that allows them to directly access your bank. I say DON'T DO IT. If they need money from you, pay by credit card, if they are giving you money, demand that they mail a paper check. I think there's a small fee (50 cents or so) for them to mail you a check, plus they hold onto it for a week ("processing time", my a$$). They make a little bit more off of you and inconvenience you, but you're far safer if you keep them away from your bank account. Plus then you have a nice paper trail to account for everything. The other option is to set up a Paypal only bank account, and watch it carefully. Most banks will give you a free checking/savings account if you maintain as little as $100 average daily balance. If you're looking to set up a shop on the internet, that's probably worth it. You have to weed through the 14m3rz, but there is some good info at www.paypalsucks.com. It's a good site if you do have a dispute to resolve with them, and there are some tips on avoiding problems. Again there's a lot of pissing and moaning and people who just want attention, but there is some good info if you're willing (or desperate) to find it. And finally, as another poster mentions, be wary of Paypal scams. Paypal is big, so scammers like to pretend to be Paypal. There's a fairly new e-mail virus going around, Mimail.J that masq's itself as a Paypal notice and asks for CC info. I assume you're smart enough not to blindly give out your CC#, but it bears mention. Good luck! -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Fri Dec 5 15:03:24 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Online payments In-Reply-To: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46FF@rye.exstream.com> References: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46FF@rye.exstream.com> Message-ID: "Brent Friedman" writes: > I was wondering if anyone on the list is using (or has used) paypal > to accept online payments. > > I don't want to get a merchant account for visa/mc (really low > volume expected), so I was thinking of using paypal. I have heard > some bad stuff about paypal, but haven't used it myself. [The use > is just to sell tshirts on a site I run for a friend, no big > ecommerce stuff.} I've used paypal, both directions, for some time. Earlier this year I was forced to upgrade to a paypal commercial account for one very small business I'm running, which was annoying. I've found them to be very good. Nothing has ever gone wrong (gone wrong, gone wrong, ...). I think what gets people so annoyed is that they do sometimes seem to pretend that you can pay *anybody* that way, and then send the anybody email saying "there's money here waiting if you open an account". That seems to annoy people for some reason :-). -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Fri Dec 5 15:55:31 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New hope for expanded Linux file system usage? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe I'm just too naive, but the way I read that, it doesn't look like they're planning to enforce a fee for people using any FAT filesystem. It looks more to me like they're offering to anyone who will pay their fee, the full technical specs on THEIR FAT filesystem, so as to create a standard. Note that when talking about licensing, they keep referring to it as "the Microsoft FAT file system" not just "the FAT file system." Not all FATs are created equally... -- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Fri Dec 5 15:59:41 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Online payments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've used them maybe ten or fifteen times. Never had a problem. The movements from paypal to my checking account were always very fast, usually beating their estimates. Regards, Chris Smith -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Brian Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 2:50 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Online payments On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Brent Friedman wrote: > I was wondering if anyone on the list is using (or has used) paypal to accept online payments. Not very much, but I think I have enough insight to help you. Paypal's bad rap is because they are a business and their number 1 goal is to make money. It's really easy to make money when people are channeling money through you. By delaying payments and holding onto your money as long as possible, they can accumulate interest on your money, and charge you for the convenience. I don't worry about it because my transactions are usually small ($50 or less) transactions, usually buying on Ebay. If you're channeling thousands of dollars through them, they're making a nice profit on you. The real problems with Paypal arise while they're hanging onto your money for you. Delayed payments are nothing compared to some stories I've heard, where Paypal actually refuses to give people their money. They have a setup that allows them to directly access your bank. I say DON'T DO IT. If they need money from you, pay by credit card, if they are giving you money, demand that they mail a paper check. I think there's a small fee (50 cents or so) for them to mail you a check, plus they hold onto it for a week ("processing time", my a$$). They make a little bit more off of you and inconvenience you, but you're far safer if you keep them away from your bank account. Plus then you have a nice paper trail to account for everything. The other option is to set up a Paypal only bank account, and watch it carefully. Most banks will give you a free checking/savings account if you maintain as little as $100 average daily balance. If you're looking to set up a shop on the internet, that's probably worth it. You have to weed through the 14m3rz, but there is some good info at www.paypalsucks.com. It's a good site if you do have a dispute to resolve with them, and there are some tips on avoiding problems. Again there's a lot of pissing and moaning and people who just want attention, but there is some good info if you're willing (or desperate) to find it. And finally, as another poster mentions, be wary of Paypal scams. Paypal is big, so scammers like to pretend to be Paypal. There's a fairly new e-mail virus going around, Mimail.J that masq's itself as a Paypal notice and asks for CC info. I assume you're smart enough not to blindly give out your CC#, but it bears mention. Good luck! -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Fri Dec 5 17:22:42 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SuSE Openexchange server Message-ID: <200312051722.42671.wilson@visi.com> Hi everyone, We're looking into moving to a new platform at our school district for email/ groupware functions. One option is SuSE's Openexchange Server (http:// www.suse.com/us/business/products/openexchange/). Has anyone used this product and would be willing to offer comments? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Science teacher, Linux fan, Zope developer, Grad. student, Daddy mailto:wilson@visi.com | http://qwerk.org/ | public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Fri Dec 5 19:21:30 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200312041711.hB4HBTC20920@crusader.real-time.com> <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1376.192.1.1.23.1070673690.squirrel@dccmn.com> If your computer has an Award (AMI) or Phoenix BIOS, you can copy the identity code from the boot screen. Then look them up on the internet, either just type them into google, or there are several sites that list many of the codes. Most Ids match a specific manufacture and model of motherboard. > Here's a dumb question --- anybody know of a site on the web that > provides pictures to help us tell what sort of memory our old crufty > hardware will take? > > Thanks, > r > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net Fri Dec 5 21:48:15 2003 From: Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net (Scott J Julian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reviews site In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1070682495.5715.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Good idea, I would love to drink a few beers with you guys and gals and learn more about linux. How about a BeerInstallFest??? Catch a buzz, install some distros, and do some gaming??? On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 13:35, Munir Nassar wrote: > Clay, > > can you add a category for BeerMeeting Places? and maybe even Installfest > locations? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Fri Dec 5 22:37:50 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (tanner@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: n-gage? Message-ID: <20031206043750.GB24305@real-time.com> Anyone have one of these n-gage thingies? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Dec 5 23:23:24 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: n-gage? In-Reply-To: <20031206043750.GB24305@real-time.com> References: <20031206043750.GB24305@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3FD167CC.1040106@visi.com> I have an HO-gage train set and I know they build N-gage train sets. ;-) Sam. tanner@real-time.com wrote: >Anyone have one of these n-gage thingies? > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Dec 5 23:39:56 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution Message-ID: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> Can I tell Linux to start PCMCIA before ETH0 ? I just don't like seeing ETH0 fail every time I restart my laptop. It's more of an annoyance then anything else, just wondering. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sat Dec 6 01:45:07 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312060745.hB67j7X20422@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: SUN Gigabit Fiber Ethernet SUN Gigabit Fiber Ethernet, brand new (no dust, it was probably a spare). No box or manuals. I have tested it in Linux and the driver loads and reports a lot of happy status. I don't have a second one to test that it really sends and receives 8^) Make an offer: florin@iucha.net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sat Dec 6 01:47:49 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312060747.hB67lnR20473@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Compaq Smart Array 5302, 64 MB RAM Compaq Smart Array 5302: * 64 MB battery backed RAM * Dual channel Ultra 160 SCSI * 64 bit/66 MHz PCI. * Upgadeable to quad channel * Brand new, no dust whatsoever * No box, manuals of software * Kernel driver loaded in linux, no problems reported. Make an offer: florin@iucha.net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sat Dec 6 01:52:52 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312060752.hB67qq720525@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: LSI Logic SYM22802 Dual Channel Ultra 160 SCSI LSI Logic SYM22802 Dual Channel Ultra 160 SCSI: * Dual channel * Two 68 pin internal connectors * Two very high density external connectors * Brand new, no dust. * No box, manuals or software * Driver loaded in linux, happy status. Make an offer: florin@iucha.net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sat Dec 6 02:22:59 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> Message-ID: <026301c3bbd2$28bce460$0201a8c0@brinstar> Sam MacDonald writes: > Can I tell Linux to start PCMCIA before ETH0 ? Most likely, your system's init is System V compatible and runs init scripts in alphanumeric order. If your init scripts are "network" and "pcmcia", simply rename network to something like "zzz.network" to have it start last. Note here that "Linux" does not start PCMCIA or networking. Your Linux based operating system does that. Without knowing which OS you are using, it is impossible to give exact instructions. Your system may use an entirely different init scheme. Examples: http://smarden.org/runit/ http://multivac.cwru.edu/svscan-1/ -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sat Dec 6 02:23:41 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Online payments References: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D84D46FF@rye.exstream.com> Message-ID: <026401c3bbd2$41c06540$0201a8c0@brinstar> Brent Friedman writes: > I was wondering if anyone on the list is using (or has used) paypal > to accept online payments. I've setup several systems that take PayPal for payment. Their IPN API makes it easy to automatically process payments and there are examples for several languages. Unfortunately, they do not have an API to handle refunds. They must be done through their web interface. On the plus side, they allow you to create extra logins for an account that only have certain privileges, which is useful for customer service people. PayPal has higher fees than a merchant account, but they are acceptable for low volume or as a secondary processor. The only issue I've run into is that the first time you go over a limit for a month ($20k), they won't let you touch the funds (but can still accept payments) until you send in extra documentation. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Dec 6 09:01:25 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <026301c3bbd2$28bce460$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <026301c3bbd2$28bce460$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <3FD1EF45.5060701@visi.com> I'm sorry Red Hat 8. Sam David Phillips wrote: >Sam MacDonald writes: > > >>Can I tell Linux to start PCMCIA before ETH0 ? >> >> > >Most likely, your system's init is System V compatible and runs init scripts >in alphanumeric order. If your init scripts are "network" and "pcmcia", >simply rename network to something like "zzz.network" to have it start last. > >Note here that "Linux" does not start PCMCIA or networking. Your Linux >based operating system does that. Without knowing which OS you are using, >it is impossible to give exact instructions. Your system may use an >entirely different init scheme. Examples: > >http://smarden.org/runit/ >http://multivac.cwru.edu/svscan-1/ > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net Sat Dec 6 10:46:46 2003 From: Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net (Scott J Julian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> Message-ID: <1070729205.5688.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> I got sick of having eth0 and my firewire fail every time on first boot with mdk 9.2 so i tried redhat 9, now JUST eth0 fails every first boot and ALWAYS works every second boot, weird On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 23:39, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Can I tell Linux to start PCMCIA before ETH0 ? > > I just don't like seeing ETH0 fail every time I restart my laptop. > It's more of an annoyance then anything else, just wondering. > > Sam. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gsker at tcfreenet.org Sat Dec 6 11:30:35 2003 From: gsker at tcfreenet.org (Gerry) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <3FD1EF45.5060701@visi.com> Message-ID: Redhat 8 (and 9) edit /etc/init.d/pcmcia and /etc/init.d/network and change the chkconfig line. then chkconfig --del pcmcia chkconfig --add pcmcia chkconfig --del network chkconfig --add network The last two numbers in the chkconfig line are startup and shutdown ordering. On mine (it's a desktop so I don't care about pcmcia) pcmcia is 24 and network is 10. I would change it so that pcmcia is 10 and network is 11 and see if that works. It might not. Make a backup of your original scripts first! tar zcvf /tmp/etc.tar.gz /etc Gerry On Sat, 6 Dec 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I'm sorry Red Hat 8. > Sam > > David Phillips wrote: > >Sam MacDonald writes: > > > >>Can I tell Linux to start PCMCIA before ETH0 ? > >> > > > >Most likely, your system's init is System V compatible and runs init scripts > >in alphanumeric order. If your init scripts are "network" and "pcmcia", > >simply rename network to something like "zzz.network" to have it start last. > > > >Note here that "Linux" does not start PCMCIA or networking. Your Linux > >based operating system does that. Without knowing which OS you are using, > >it is impossible to give exact instructions. Your system may use an > >entirely different init scheme. Examples: -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@tcfreenet.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tsinks at isd.net Sat Dec 6 11:38:45 2003 From: tsinks at isd.net (Tim Sinks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <1070729205.5688.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <003e01c3bc1f$d0514160$0300000a@net.tsinks> For Sam, et al., Here's a funny question. Why should it matter if the ETH0 fails or any other HW item which isn't connected or ready? The boot goes on. ta dah! This is very common especially on laptops which usually don't have everything hooked up every time you boot. My pcmcia net adaptor card doesn't get fully attached and talk to the router here at home until after the boot has completed. The link blinks only, maybe, once and is not connected until long after I've logged in. Networks and the connections are notoriously slow at first. If your system isn't always up, it takes awhile for the ISP and the router to get all the ducks in a row. As another example, the C: drive on my laptop - winc, takes awhile as well as the cd-rw drive on the USB connection. The boot is sometimes pretty fast and passes these by, but they are there by the time I log in. What type of problem is actually occuring due to the delay or failure of the connection? Is your ETHO card a 'winmodem'? Thanks, Tim Sinks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott J Julian" To: "TC LUG" Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Order of Execution > I got sick of having eth0 and my firewire fail every time on first boot > with mdk 9.2 so i tried redhat 9, now JUST eth0 fails every first boot > and ALWAYS works every second boot, weird On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 23:39, > Sam MacDonald wrote: > > Can I tell Linux to start PCMCIA before ETH0 ? > > > > I just don't like seeing ETH0 fail every time I restart my laptop. > > It's more of an annoyance then anything else, just wondering. > > > > Sam. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Sat Dec 6 11:50:40 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <003e01c3bc1f$d0514160$0300000a@net.tsinks>; from tsinks@isd.net on Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 11:38:45AM -0600 References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <1070729205.5688.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <003e01c3bc1f$d0514160$0300000a@net.tsinks> Message-ID: <20031206115040.B5398@thinkunix.net> the OS is just trying to start the network (assumes most systems have a NIC available, which most do) before loading the pcmcia drivers. there's no real problem, Sam just doesn't like watching the error messages go by when the system boots. Tim Sinks wrote: > For Sam, et al., > Here's a funny question. Why should it matter if the ETH0 fails or any other > HW item which isn't connected or ready? > The boot goes on. ta dah! This is very common especially on laptops which > usually don't have everything hooked up every time you boot. My pcmcia net > adaptor card doesn't get fully attached and talk to the router here at home > until after the boot has completed. The link blinks only, maybe, once and is > not connected until long after I've logged in. Networks and the connections > are notoriously slow at first. If your system isn't always up, it takes > awhile for the ISP and the router to get all the ducks in a row. > As another example, the C: drive on my laptop - winc, takes awhile as well > as the cd-rw drive on the USB connection. The boot is sometimes pretty fast > and passes these by, but they are there by the time I log in. > What type of problem is actually occuring due to the delay or failure of the > connection? Is your ETHO card a 'winmodem'? > Thanks, > Tim Sinks > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott J Julian" > To: "TC LUG" > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:46 AM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Order of Execution > > > > I got sick of having eth0 and my firewire fail every time on first boot > > with mdk 9.2 so i tried redhat 9, now JUST eth0 fails every first boot > > and ALWAYS works every second boot, weird On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 23:39, > > Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > Can I tell Linux to start PCMCIA before ETH0 ? > > > > > > I just don't like seeing ETH0 fail every time I restart my laptop. > > > It's more of an annoyance then anything else, just wondering. > > > > > > Sam. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Sat Dec 6 11:46:33 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reviews site In-Reply-To: <1070682495.5715.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>; from Scott_J_Julian@comcast.net on Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 09:48:15PM -0600 References: <1070682495.5715.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20031206114633.A5398@thinkunix.net> Scott J Julian wrote: > Good idea, I would love to drink a few beers with you guys and gals and > learn more about linux. How about a BeerInstallFest??? Catch a buzz, > install some distros, and do some > gaming??? a word of advice: don't drink an root. Beer meeting usually happen every 2 wks or so. Installfests happen every couple months. check http://tclug.org/ for the latest meeting, beer meeting, and installfest info. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Sat Dec 6 11:57:57 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reviews site In-Reply-To: <20031206114633.A5398@thinkunix.net>; from scot+tcluggen@thinkunix.net on Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 11:46:33AM -0600 References: <1070682495.5715.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20031206114633.A5398@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20031206115757.C5398@thinkunix.net> Scot Jenkins wrote: > Scott J Julian wrote: > > Good idea, I would love to drink a few beers with you guys and gals and > > learn more about linux. How about a BeerInstallFest??? Catch a buzz, > > install some distros, and do some > > gaming??? > > a word of advice: don't drink an root. er, that should be "don't drink and root" -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Dec 6 13:43:35 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <20031206115040.B5398@thinkunix.net> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <1070729205.5688.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <003e01c3bc1f$d0514160$0300000a@net.tsinks> <20031206115040.B5398@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3FD23167.80001@visi.com> That's right the error message is not what I would call normal. This is true as well, if Linux is going to be more main stream in business, it needs to act more main stream. Error messages on start up create help desk calls, help desk calls are expensive. What System Administrator has time to deal with erroneous calls for assistance. When you tell a customer "it doesn't mean anything and everything will work" you loose credibility, because the problem does not get fixed. If the problem for the customer is fixed you get more customers. I just don't like seeing ETH0 fail every time I restart my laptop. */_It's more of an annoyance then anything else, just wondering_/*. Scot Jenkins wrote: >the OS is just trying to start the network (assumes most systems have >a NIC available, which most do) before loading the pcmcia drivers. >there's no real problem, Sam just doesn't like watching the error >messages go by when the system boots. > >Tim Sinks wrote: > > >>For Sam, et al., >>Here's a funny question. Why should it matter if the ETH0 fails or any other >>HW item which isn't connected or ready? >>The boot goes on. ta dah! This is very common especially on laptops which >>usually don't have everything hooked up every time you boot. My pcmcia net >>adaptor card doesn't get fully attached and talk to the router here at home >>until after the boot has completed. The link blinks only, maybe, once and is >>not connected until long after I've logged in. Networks and the connections >>are notoriously slow at first. If your system isn't always up, it takes >>awhile for the ISP and the router to get all the ducks in a row. >>As another example, the C: drive on my laptop - winc, takes awhile as well >>as the cd-rw drive on the USB connection. The boot is sometimes pretty fast >>and passes these by, but they are there by the time I log in. >>What type of problem is actually occuring due to the delay or failure of the >>connection? Is your ETHO card a 'winmodem'? >>Thanks, >>Tim Sinks >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Scott J Julian" >>To: "TC LUG" >>Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:46 AM >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Order of Execution >> >> >> >> >>>I got sick of having eth0 and my firewire fail every time on first boot >>>with mdk 9.2 so i tried redhat 9, now JUST eth0 fails every first boot >>>and ALWAYS works every second boot, weird On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 23:39, >>>Sam MacDonald wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Can I tell Linux to start PCMCIA before ETH0 ? >>>> >>>>I just don't like seeing ETH0 fail every time I restart my laptop. >>>>It's more of an annoyance then anything else, just wondering. >>>> >>>>Sam. >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Dec 6 15:12:35 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FD24643.4040500@visi.com> I tried this and I'm sorry to say it didn't work, I had hoped it wood. What is the name of the file that functions like (in the windows world) a system.ini file. If I change the order placing the PCMCIA before the ETH0 the stuff will initialize in a better order for me. Sam. Gerry wrote: >Redhat 8 (and 9) >edit /etc/init.d/pcmcia and /etc/init.d/network and change the chkconfig line. >then >chkconfig --del pcmcia >chkconfig --add pcmcia >chkconfig --del network >chkconfig --add network > >The last two numbers in the chkconfig line are startup and shutdown ordering. >On mine (it's a desktop so I don't care about pcmcia) pcmcia is 24 and network >is 10. I would change it so that pcmcia is 10 and network is 11 and see if >that works. It might not. > >Make a backup of your original scripts first! >tar zcvf /tmp/etc.tar.gz /etc > >Gerry > > >On Sat, 6 Dec 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > >>I'm sorry Red Hat 8. >>Sam >> >>David Phillips wrote: >> >> >>>Sam MacDonald writes: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Can I tell Linux to start PCMCIA before ETH0 ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Most likely, your system's init is System V compatible and runs init scripts >>>in alphanumeric order. If your init scripts are "network" and "pcmcia", >>>simply rename network to something like "zzz.network" to have it start last. >>> >>>Note here that "Linux" does not start PCMCIA or networking. Your Linux >>>based operating system does that. Without knowing which OS you are using, >>>it is impossible to give exact instructions. Your system may use an >>>entirely different init scheme. Examples: >>> >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Sat Dec 6 15:51:18 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnny fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <3FD24643.4040500@visi.com> References: <3FD24643.4040500@visi.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 15:12:35 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I tried this and I'm sorry to say it didn't work, I had hoped it wood. > > What is the name of the file that functions like (in the windows world) > a system.ini file. > > If I change the order placing the PCMCIA before the ETH0 the stuff will > initialize in a better order for me. > > > Can't you move the pcmcia init to a different level? what level is it at now... My recent Gentoo install I had to swap the order around - it helped (no more error messages) I can't reference my gentoo install now because it's at work :( > Sam. > > Gerry wrote: > >> Redhat 8 (and 9) >> edit /etc/init.d/pcmcia and /etc/init.d/network and change the >> chkconfig line. >> then chkconfig --del pcmcia >> chkconfig --add pcmcia >> chkconfig --del network >> chkconfig --add network >> >> The last two numbers in the chkconfig line are startup and shutdown >> ordering. On mine (it's a desktop so I don't care about pcmcia) pcmcia >> is 24 and network >> is 10. I would change it so that pcmcia is 10 and network is 11 and >> see if >> that works. It might not. Make a backup of your original scripts first! >> tar zcvf /tmp/etc.tar.gz /etc >> >> Gerry >> >> >> On Sat, 6 Dec 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: >> >> >>> I'm sorry Red Hat 8. >>> Sam >>> >>> David Phillips wrote: >>> >>>> Sam MacDonald writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Can I tell Linux to start PCMCIA before ETH0 ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Most likely, your system's init is System V compatible and runs init >>>> scripts >>>> in alphanumeric order. If your init scripts are "network" and >>>> "pcmcia", >>>> simply rename network to something like "zzz.network" to have it >>>> start last. >>>> >>>> Note here that "Linux" does not start PCMCIA or networking. Your >>>> Linux >>>> based operating system does that. Without knowing which OS you are >>>> using, >>>> it is impossible to give exact instructions. Your system may use an >>>> entirely different init scheme. Examples: >>>> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Sat Dec 6 16:01:49 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnny fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <3FD24643.4040500@visi.com> References: <3FD24643.4040500@visi.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 15:12:35 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I tried this and I'm sorry to say it didn't work, I had hoped it wood. > > What is the name of the file that functions like (in the windows world) > a system.ini file. > > If I change the order placing the PCMCIA before the ETH0 the stuff will > initialize in a better order for me. > > > no reinstall.... Here's a bit more information check out the /etc/rc.d directory - in there there are a bunch of levels - 0 - 6 I think. look through them all (ls -Ral or something) the rc0.d -rc.6 dirs are full of links back to scripts in the /etc/init.d direcory you'll also notice some numbers in each linkname. I think thatduring boot up a number of these rcX.d levels are run and the scripts in each are run in numerical order.. see if the pcmcia has a lower number than the network in the rcX.d level... there's probably a man page on init.d or rc.d... have fun! > Sam. > > Gerry wrote: > >> Redhat 8 (and 9) >> edit /etc/init.d/pcmcia and /etc/init.d/network and change the >> chkconfig line. >> then chkconfig --del pcmcia >> chkconfig --add pcmcia >> chkconfig --del network >> chkconfig --add network >> >> The last two numbers in the chkconfig line are startup and shutdown >> ordering. On mine (it's a desktop so I don't care about pcmcia) pcmcia >> is 24 and network >> is 10. I would change it so that pcmcia is 10 and network is 11 and >> see if >> that works. It might not. Make a backup of your original scripts first! >> tar zcvf /tmp/etc.tar.gz /etc >> >> Gerry >> >> >> On Sat, 6 Dec 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: >> >> >>> I'm sorry Red Hat 8. >>> Sam >>> >>> David Phillips wrote: >>> >>>> Sam MacDonald writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Can I tell Linux to start PCMCIA before ETH0 ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Most likely, your system's init is System V compatible and runs init >>>> scripts >>>> in alphanumeric order. If your init scripts are "network" and >>>> "pcmcia", >>>> simply rename network to something like "zzz.network" to have it >>>> start last. >>>> >>>> Note here that "Linux" does not start PCMCIA or networking. Your >>>> Linux >>>> based operating system does that. Without knowing which OS you are >>>> using, >>>> it is impossible to give exact instructions. Your system may use an >>>> entirely different init scheme. Examples: >>>> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Sat Dec 6 16:14:48 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnny fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <3FD24643.4040500@visi.com> References: <3FD24643.4040500@visi.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 15:12:35 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I tried this and I'm sorry to say it didn't work, I had hoped it wood. > > What is the name of the file that functions like (in the windows world) > a system.ini file. > > If I change the order placing the PCMCIA before the ETH0 the stuff will > initialize in a better order for me. > > > Found it - man inittab I think that should answer most questions... > Sam. > > Gerry wrote: > >> Redhat 8 (and 9) >> edit /etc/init.d/pcmcia and /etc/init.d/network and change the >> chkconfig line. >> then chkconfig --del pcmcia >> chkconfig --add pcmcia >> chkconfig --del network >> chkconfig --add network >> >> The last two numbers in the chkconfig line are startup and shutdown >> ordering. On mine (it's a desktop so I don't care about pcmcia) pcmcia >> is 24 and network >> is 10. I would change it so that pcmcia is 10 and network is 11 and >> see if >> that works. It might not. Make a backup of your original scripts first! >> tar zcvf /tmp/etc.tar.gz /etc >> >> Gerry >> >> >> On Sat, 6 Dec 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: >> >> >>> I'm sorry Red Hat 8. >>> Sam >>> >>> David Phillips wrote: >>> >>>> Sam MacDonald writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Can I tell Linux to start PCMCIA before ETH0 ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Most likely, your system's init is System V compatible and runs init >>>> scripts >>>> in alphanumeric order. If your init scripts are "network" and >>>> "pcmcia", >>>> simply rename network to something like "zzz.network" to have it >>>> start last. >>>> >>>> Note here that "Linux" does not start PCMCIA or networking. Your >>>> Linux >>>> based operating system does that. Without knowing which OS you are >>>> using, >>>> it is impossible to give exact instructions. Your system may use an >>>> entirely different init scheme. Examples: >>>> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Sat Dec 6 21:25:14 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <1376.192.1.1.23.1070673690.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Wayne Johnson wrote: > If your computer has an Award (AMI) or Phoenix BIOS, you can copy the Award is NOT AMI, AMI is American Megatrends Incorporated, though i have not heard from them in a long time. Award was recently merged into Phoenix. -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From alfracto at comcast.net Sat Dec 6 13:53:31 2003 From: alfracto at comcast.net (Alex Williamson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] escape characters in tr, less don't work right. ALSO man pages look wierd in putty. Message-ID: <002e01c3bc32$a0af8530$0500a8c0@blackswan> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Sun Dec 7 00:22:34 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> Message-ID: <200312070022.34360.jack@jacku.com> On Friday 05 December 2003 11:39 pm, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Can I tell Linux to start PCMCIA before ETH0 ? > > I just don't like seeing ETH0 fail every time I restart my laptop. > It's more of an annoyance then anything else, just wondering. > > Sam. (Note: I'm not certain that Red Hat is setup this way but I believe it is. I am certain that SuSE runs this way as do a couple of other distros.) There is a directory /etc/init.d (it may be /etc/rc.d/init.d) that contains many script files that are used to start all the services on the system. Each run level has a directory rcX.d where X is the run level (ex. rc3.d if you are booting to console, rc5.d to the GUI login.) In each of these directories are a series of sym-links that point to the scripts in init.d Each of the symlinks has K?? or S?? in front of the script name. The ?? is a two digit number. This puts the scripts in the directory into a particular order. When the run level is entered all of the scripts are run in order. The K scripts stop running processes and the S scripts start processes. The scripts in the init.d directory often take several parameters two of which are "start" and "stop". If you look at rc0.d and rc6.d (halt and reboot) you will see K scripts and not S scripts. So what you want to do is change the number of S??pcmcia to be less than S??network. I'm writing this from a desktop without PCMCIA but with hotplug (which handles USB, so it would have a similar effect with a USB ethernet device). Network start is S05network, hotplug is S07hotplug. Basically all that is needed is to change the S07 to S04 and hotplug will start before network. Hope this helps. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Sun Dec 7 02:16:46 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Palm interface to Slashdot gone? In-Reply-To: <16336.4719.852257.376583@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <002e01c3bc9a$75529e00$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> I was able to hit it just fine...I can't hit it without the trailing slash, however. Try that, perhaps. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jon Schewe > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 23:07 > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Palm interface to Slashdot gone? > > > Does anyone know what happened to the palm interface to > slashdot? It used to be at http://slashdot.org/palm, but for > the past month or so it hasn't been loading. > > -- > Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net > GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html > For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels > nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any > powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all > creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that > is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Sun Dec 7 07:40:45 2003 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Palm interface to Slashdot gone? In-Reply-To: <002e01c3bc9a$75529e00$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> References: <16336.4719.852257.376583@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <002e01c3bc9a$75529e00$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> Message-ID: <16339.11741.14885.619614@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Thanks, that did it. >>>>> "JH" == John Hoffoss writes: JH> I was able to hit it just fine...I can't hit it without the trailing slash, JH> however. Try that, perhaps. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jon Schewe >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 23:07 >> To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> Subject: [TCLUG] Palm interface to Slashdot gone? >> >> >> Does anyone know what happened to the palm interface to >> slashdot? It used to be at http://slashdot.org/palm, but for >> the past month or so it hasn't been loading. >> >> -- >> Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net >> GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html >> For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels >> nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any >> powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all >> creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that >> is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota JH> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org JH> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Dec 7 08:40:49 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <200312070022.34360.jack@jacku.com> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <200312070022.34360.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> Jack... Jack This is the best explanation of how the startup process of Linux works, I've ever had the privilege to read. Your writing is clear and concise, you method is direct. You have written an explanation that will go down in the history of TCLUG. A page should be dedicated to this sort of in depth understanding and ability to expound a single topic. Now, if you could rewrite all the "man pages" like this explanation. The rest of the world would dump M$ and run Linux in less than a heart beat ;-) I have a Linux page on my web site. With your permission, I will put the text of this eMail "with credit to you" on that page. Not only is this an excellent explanation of the Linux startup process it works! Thank you for not only fixing an annoyance but leading me down the path of understanding Linux in a more subtle and in depth way. Sam. Jack Ungerleider wrote: >On Friday 05 December 2003 11:39 pm, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>Can I tell Linux to start PCMCIA before ETH0 ? >> >>I just don't like seeing ETH0 fail every time I restart my laptop. >>It's more of an annoyance then anything else, just wondering. >> >>Sam. >> >> > >(Note: I'm not certain that Red Hat is setup this way but I believe it is. I >am certain that SuSE runs this way as do a couple of other distros.) > >There is a directory /etc/init.d (it may be /etc/rc.d/init.d) that contains >many script files that are used to start all the services on the system. > >Each run level has a directory rcX.d where X is the run level (ex. rc3.d if >you are booting to console, rc5.d to the GUI login.) In each of these >directories are a series of sym-links that point to the scripts in init.d >Each of the symlinks has K?? or S?? in front of the script name. The ?? is a >two digit number. This puts the scripts in the directory into a particular >order. > >When the run level is entered all of the scripts are run in order. The K >scripts stop running processes and the S scripts start processes. The scripts >in the init.d directory often take several parameters two of which are >"start" and "stop". If you look at rc0.d and rc6.d (halt and reboot) you will >see K scripts and not S scripts. > >So what you want to do is change the number of S??pcmcia to be less than >S??network. I'm writing this from a desktop without PCMCIA but with hotplug >(which handles USB, so it would have a similar effect with a USB ethernet >device). Network start is S05network, hotplug is S07hotplug. Basically all >that is needed is to change the S07 to S04 and hotplug will start before >network. > >Hope this helps. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Sun Dec 7 10:40:20 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: References: <1376.192.1.1.23.1070673690.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <2332.192.1.1.23.1070815220.squirrel@dccmn.com> Your right of course. It's been quite a while since I needed to do this. At my age, you start loosing it if your not using it... Thanks for the correction. Munir Nassar said: > On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Wayne Johnson wrote: > >> If your computer has an Award (AMI) or Phoenix BIOS, you can copy the > > Award is NOT AMI, AMI is American Megatrends Incorporated, though i have > not heard from them in a long time. > > Award was recently merged into Phoenix. > > -- > Munir Nassar > RedConcepts.NET > http://redconcepts.net/ > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Sun Dec 7 11:10:10 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <200312070022.34360.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <3FD35EF2.8080102@cleosci.com> Yes, RedHat is also set up this way. Garrett >(Note: I'm not certain that Red Hat is setup this way but I believe it is. I >am certain that SuSE runs this way as do a couple of other distros.) > >There is a directory /etc/init.d (it may be /etc/rc.d/init.d) that contains >many script files that are used to start all the services on the system. > >Each run level has a directory rcX.d where X is the run level (ex. rc3.d if > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Sun Dec 7 12:33:17 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] escape characters in tr, less don't work right. ALSO man pages look wierd in putty. In-Reply-To: <002e01c3bc32$a0af8530$0500a8c0@blackswan> References: <002e01c3bc32$a0af8530$0500a8c0@blackswan> Message-ID: <20031207183317.GA7673@mail.el-swifto.com> On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 11:53:31AM -0800, Alex Williamson wrote: > I am trying to replace newlines with tab in a file which lists words > on seperate lines. (Which is displayed within a larger script. I don't > want to endlessly scroll to see the whole thing.) I'm piping cat to > tr. [ cat filename | tr \n \t ]. The tr man page says that this > should display the normal filename output with a display that replaces > new line characters with tabs. Instead n is replaced with t and the > words remain on seperate lines. Searching in less with these escaped > characters behaves the same way. What gives? > > Also, I'm running putty as an ssh from an Win2k machine to my linux > machine. Man pages show [ - ] as [ an a with ^ above it. ], which > drives me crazy trying to read. Telnet from a command promt is even > worse. More characters don't scan. Any fixes? > Looks like "backslashitis" problem. This works for me: cat filename | tr \\n \\t -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gsker at tcfreenet.org Sun Dec 7 13:02:03 2003 From: gsker at tcfreenet.org (Gerry) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <3FD35EF2.8080102@cleosci.com> Message-ID: Redhat is set up that way, but you should not manipulate them manually. That's what chkconfig is for. On Sun, 7 Dec 2003, gkrueger wrote: > Yes, RedHat is also set up this way. > > Garrett > > >(Note: I'm not certain that Red Hat is setup this way but I believe it is. I > >am certain that SuSE runs this way as do a couple of other distros.) > > > >There is a directory /etc/init.d (it may be /etc/rc.d/init.d) that contains > >many script files that are used to start all the services on the system. > > > >Each run level has a directory rcX.d where X is the run level (ex. rc3.d if -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@tcfreenet.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Sun Dec 7 13:22:48 2003 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> (message from Sam MacDonald on Sun, 07 Dec 2003 08:40:49 -0600) References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <200312070022.34360.jack@jacku.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> Message-ID: <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> Sam MacDonald wrote: >Thank you for not only fixing an annoyance but leading me down the path >of understanding Linux in a more subtle and in depth way. It may be best to not fix something when it really isn't broken. On my laptop with a pcmcia ethernet card and SuSE GNU/Linux 8.0 loaded, I get the following messages when booting to init level 5 (graphical login). These are found in /var/log/boot.msg after booting the laptop as well as on the console display (in possibly less detail) whiling booting. ------ /etc/init.d/rc5.d/S05network start Setting up network interfaces: lo done eth-pcmcia-0 skipped INFO: Dont worry about skipped interfaces; they will be set up dynamically by service pcmcia, hotplug or when dialing. ------ When the pcmcia process is started via "/etc/init.d/rc5.d/S08pcmcia start", it does indeed initialize eth-pcmcia-0 and eth0. If the Redhat distribution doesn't issue the above INFO notice about skipped interfaces it probably should. Reordering the way that (System V) init controlled processes are started and killed in the various run levels is best left to people who are experts at this and understand all the side effects of doing so. BTW, I don't consider myself an expert in this area, but I'm aware of the potential dangers of reordering the starting and killing of these processes. In this case, since the change in order was only from 08 to 04, the potential ill effects are quite limited depending on what else gets started (and later killed) between these (S04-S08 starting scripts). Changing pcmcia from 08 to 04 does have the effect of there being no lo interface initialized yet (05), syslog hasn't been started yet (06), and hotplug hasn't started yet (07), when the pcmcia process is started. The side effects caused by making this change seem quite small, but they are there and in certain circumstances could be a (perhaps trivial) problem. (Again detailed mentioned are based on SuSE GNU/Linux 8.0.) >Jack Ungerleider wrote: Jack did indeed write an excellent description how init does its job of killing and starting init run level controlled processes. >>(Note: I'm not certain that Red Hat is setup this way but I believe it is. I >>am certain that SuSE runs this way as do a couple of other distros.) >>There is a directory /etc/init.d (it may be /etc/rc.d/init.d) that contains >>many script files that are used to start all the services on the system. Clarification: init doesn't _directly_ start all services on a system. It starts and kills all processes with symbolic links (S??.* and K??.*) from /etc/rc.d/rc?.d/ to the /etc/rc.d/init.d init process (rc) scripts. Some services are started by processes other than init. Of course, init usually being the first process does at least indirectly start all processes except itself (the kernel does that). >>Each run level has a directory rcX.d where X is the run level (ex. rc3.d if >>you are booting to console, rc5.d to the GUI login.) In each of these >>directories are a series of sym-links that point to the scripts in init.d >>Each of the symlinks has K?? or S?? in front of the script name. The ?? is a >>two digit number. This puts the scripts in the directory into a particular >>order. >>When the run level is entered all of the scripts are run in order. The K >>scripts stop running processes and the S scripts start processes. The >>scripts in the init.d directory often take several parameters two of >>which are "start" and "stop". If you look at rc0.d and rc6.d (halt and >>reboot) you will see K scripts and not S scripts. >>So what you want to do is change the number of S??pcmcia to be less than >>S??network. I'm writing this from a desktop without PCMCIA but with hotplug >>(which handles USB, so it would have a similar effect with a USB ethernet >>device). Network start is S05network, hotplug is S07hotplug. Basically all >>that is needed is to change the S07 to S04 and hotplug will start before >>network. To be consistent within a run level, when one reorders a start script, the kill script should also be reordered. So (on SuSE GNU/Linux 8.0) ... /etc/rc.d/rc5.d/ # mv S08pcmcia S04pcmcia should be matched by the corresponding kill script change: /etc/rc.d/rc5.d/ # mv K15pcmcia K19pcmcia This kill script reordering is done to ensure that processes in a run level are killed in the reverse order to which they were started. Since pcmcia is started a little earlier, it should now also be killed a little later so a first started - last killed order is maintained. This isn't strictly necessary, but some init controlled processes do need other init controlled processes to be running whenever they are running, so at least a partial ordering determined by interprocess dependencies is required. Again, let me say that I wouldn't make this change (or pair changes) to remove an annoyance displayed by init on the console. This particular change may have at most a trivial ill effect, but I would strongly advise against making any reordering where the side effects are not clearly understood. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sun Dec 7 14:00:42 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] escape characters in tr, less don't work right. ALSO man pages look wierd in putty. References: <002e01c3bc32$a0af8530$0500a8c0@blackswan> Message-ID: <008a01c3bcfc$cb9361c0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Alex Williamson writes: > I am trying to replace newlines with tab in a file which lists words > on seperate lines. (Which is displayed within a larger script. I > don't want to endlessly scroll to see the whole thing.) I'm piping > cat to tr. [ cat filename | tr \n \t ]. The tr man page says that > this should display the normal filename output with a display that > replaces new line characters with tabs. Instead n is replaced with t > and the words remain on seperate lines. Searching in less with these > escaped characters behaves the same way. What gives? You need to quote the escape sequences, otherwise the shell will interpret them. Also, there is no reason to use cat: tr '\n' '\t' < filename > Also, I'm running putty as an ssh from an Win2k machine to my linux > machine. Man pages show [ - ] as [ an a with ^ above it. ], which > drives me crazy trying to read. Telnet from a command promt is even > worse. More characters don't scan. Any fixes? Starting with the default PuTTY settings, this is what you should change for Linux (at least for Debian Linux): Window -> Translation -> Use font in both ANSI and OEM modes Connection -> Terminal-type string = xterm For FreeBSD: Terminal -> Use background color to erase screen Connection -> Terminal-type string = xterm-color You can actually use the FreeBSD ones for Linux, but they don't make any difference (as far as I can tell). Also, this is a very handy snippet from my .bashrc: if [ "$PS1" ]; then case $TERM in xterm*) declare -x PROMPT_COMMAND="echo -ne '\033]0;${HOSTNAME}\007'" ;; esac fi -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drake at math.umn.edu Sun Dec 7 15:02:02 2003 From: drake at math.umn.edu (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] escape characters in tr, less don't work right. ALSO man pages look wierd in putty. In-Reply-To: <008a01c3bcfc$cb9361c0$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <002e01c3bc32$a0af8530$0500a8c0@blackswan> <008a01c3bcfc$cb9361c0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031207210202.GA12277@math.umn.edu> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drake at math.umn.edu Sun Dec 7 15:19:05 2003 From: drake at math.umn.edu (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bash programmable completion Message-ID: <20031207211905.GB12277@math.umn.edu> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Sun Dec 7 15:51:36 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> Message-ID: <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> On Sunday 07 December 2003 01:22 pm, Ken Fuchs wrote: Thanks for the clarifications Ken. I aggree that changing this to remove an annoyance is may not be the right approach. FWIW SuSE is the only one I've seen that displays the warning message, but I haven't seen a recent issue Mandrake boot. Sam: Feel free to post what I wrote, but include Ken's comments and warnings about manual manipulation of the order of these things. Your distro sets things up this way for a reason. I certainly would move anything more than 2 or three places on this list without checking the distros documentation if available. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sun Dec 7 15:57:37 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] escape characters in tr, less don't work right. ALSO man pages look wierd in putty. References: <002e01c3bc32$a0af8530$0500a8c0@blackswan><008a01c3bcfc$cb9361c0$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031207210202.GA12277@math.umn.edu> Message-ID: <003801c3bd0d$21df4250$0201a8c0@brinstar> Dan Drake writes: > You're correct that "cat" is unnecessary, but it looks nice to write I agree that it looks nicer, but it is less efficient, which can sometimes be significant. > I don't quite see what this does. It will run the given echo command > before each prompt...won't this just print a prompt twice? It sets the window title of your xterm (PuTTY, in your case) to be the current hostname. This is useful when you SSH into a different box, especially when you have multiple terminals open. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sun Dec 7 16:37:16 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (rick ) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] installfest / distro server? Message-ID: <200312071637.AA1249313026@mail.eworld3.net> Sorry I could not reply sooner, I don't have much time to keep up with email while I am in Baltimore. The box I have now is a duel PII 350 but I can't remember the current memory configuration. I'll check it out when I get back. What we need is to get the OS installed and set up to be a server. It would also be good to get an HD just in case we lose the 1Gig drive I have donated. >Sam, >Rick may need the memory but I think he's got a cpu already. >You'll have to check with him as he has the latest installfest server >parts. Hopefully he'll respond in a bit... > >Sam MacDonald wrote: >> I can donate processor and ram for the box. >> 1 or 2 @ PII 400 >> 4 or 8 @ 64mb PC100 > >-- >scot > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sun Dec 7 18:06:06 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Review) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Review Message-ID: <200312080006.hB8066J16813@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Review Category: Installfest locations Subject: testing let me see how this works http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/reviews/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sun Dec 7 18:12:40 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (rick ) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reviews site Message-ID: <200312071812.AA1126039798@mail.eworld3.net> Thanks Munir & Clay but the form still needs a little work. Maybe I'm being picky but the page still has a bit of the ad placement flavor: - personal space has "place a reviews" - the title of the review placement form is "place an review" (imho these should be "submit a review") - the review placement form has default info for placing an ad - when you place your review the confirmation message is for ads >can you add a category for BeerMeeting Places? and maybe even Installfest >locations? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Sun Dec 7 21:36:19 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Business software recommendations? Message-ID: <20031207213619.29b48bf8.sfertch@real-time.com> Looking for some ideas on various business and taxes software that people use. Specifically: inventory/sales/contacts, tax reports/filings, and accounting. Pros/cons, and things to watch out for, of each that you recommend please. One of the tax programs I saw on Sourceforge is phptax: http://sourceforge.net/projects/phptax/ However, this is in alpha stage. Looking for something a little more stable and tested for this. I did some searching on Sourceforge, but there's a lot of them out there and if possible, would like to narrow it down to about 3 or 4 of each from current users based on their opinions. Thanks in advance. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 8 00:23:27 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> I have a related question about symlinks or "symbolic links" for the group. One of the things about NT that makes it easy to understand is the use of the registry. The registry links objects to what the object is used for or to objects it uses. It organizes everything in a central Hierarchy. No central registry exists in Linux that I have found, it feels scattered to me at this point. I can't go to one place and find the guts of everything. The essence of Linux is the File System and Symlinks if I'm not mistaken, "Yes"? I need to be sure I'm understanding "in the Linux world" what I understand in the NT world. Could it be said (without opening a can of flames) that, symlinks do something similar to registry entries by pointing to other objects. I'm trying to take my NT registry knowledge that is the guts of the OS and translate Linux in to that understanding. Remember NT was designed by VAX guys, they took the guts of VAX and translated it in to the NT registry. Kinda like what Compaq did with the PC BIOS ;-) I don't know why but I need to know the lowest levels of the OS first and learn up. I also need to learn from the desktop down at the same time. It works for me. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 8 00:33:56 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] installfest / distro server? In-Reply-To: <200312071637.AA1249313026@mail.eworld3.net> References: <200312071637.AA1249313026@mail.eworld3.net> Message-ID: <3FD41B54.10406@visi.com> We could boost the processing power by 100mhz by putting 2 400's in it, I've got'em. I hope you meant 10 gig not 1 gig, right? Sam. rick wrote: >Sorry I could not reply sooner, I don't have much time to keep up with email while I am in Baltimore. > >The box I have now is a duel PII 350 but I can't remember the current memory configuration. I'll check it out when I get back. > >What we need is to get the OS installed and set up to be a server. It would also be good to get an HD just in case we lose the 1Gig drive I have donated. > > > >>Sam, >>Rick may need the memory but I think he's got a cpu already. >>You'll have to check with him as he has the latest installfest server >>parts. Hopefully he'll respond in a bit... >> >>Sam MacDonald wrote: >> >> >>>I can donate processor and ram for the box. >>>1 or 2 @ PII 400 >>>4 or 8 @ 64mb PC100 >>> >>> >>-- >>scot >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Mon Dec 8 01:57:34 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Business software recommendations? References: <20031207213619.29b48bf8.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <003301c3bd60$f08676c0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Shawn writes: > Looking for some ideas on various business and taxes software that > people use. Specifically: inventory/sales/contacts, tax > reports/filings, and accounting. Pros/cons, and things to watch out > for, of each that you recommend please. QuickBooks seems to be the standard for small businesses. Accounting software is not something I would trust to open source. You want something that is used by thousands of people and is hopefully written by a team of experts who understand business rules and tax laws. This is especially true if you aren't an accountant and don't know how to do it yourself. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel at joelschneider.net Mon Dec 8 03:00:48 2003 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Business software recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20031207213619.29b48bf8.sfertch@real-time.com>; from sfertch@real-time.com on Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 09:36:19PM -0600 References: <20031207213619.29b48bf8.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031208030048.L13371@joelschneider.net> On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 09:36:19PM -0600, Shawn wrote: > Looking for some ideas on various business and taxes software that > people use. Here are some accounting programs that might work for you, depending on your needs: Open-Source: http://www.sql-ledger.org/ web based accounting system http://www.gnucash.org/ some small business accounting features Commercial: http://www.appgen.com/ (caveat: http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/10/24/1518230) -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net Linux makes computing fun again. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Mon Dec 8 07:35:56 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031208133556.GA20968@refried.org> On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 12:23:27AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > One of the things about NT that makes it easy to understand is the use > of the registry. The registry links objects to what the object is used > for or to objects it uses. It organizes everything in a central Hierarchy. > No central registry exists in Linux that I have found, it feels > scattered to me at this point. I can't go to one place and find the > guts of everything. If you want a detailed explaination, look at the File Hierarchy Standard put out by the Linux Standards Base. I'll do my best as a short explaination here. Believe it or not, Linux is very organized. Much more than most unixes I've seen (IRIX especially). Debian especially strives to adhere to the FHS. /etc Generally, all system wide configuration files go here. /bin Basic system utilities that everyone can use go here. /sbin Basic system utilities that only root can use go here. /usr This is where static data and programs go. Some systems can mount this read-only or over NFS. /var This is where variable data for programs on this system go. /lib System libraries needed by programs in /bin and /sbin go here. /usr/share/doc This is where documentation on a per-package basis goes. /usr/lib Most of the system libraries go here. /var/log All system logs go here on Linux. /lib/modules Kernel modules /usr/include Header files for development /usr/local Programs that are not part of the base distribution generally go here. Sure, it may look like there are lots of places to go, but it's all in one namespace. You don't need specialized tools to walk around it and change things. It'll become second nature once you use it more. Nate - Who preferred .ini files over the registry _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Mon Dec 8 07:54:28 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] moving users to new server Message-ID: <002501c3bd92$cc362040$4dae6742@DELL2> I need to move all existing users from a redhat 8 server to a new fedora server. Is there a tool for importing them, or do I just copy over /etc/password and /home? Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Mon Dec 8 08:12:08 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] moving users to new server In-Reply-To: <002501c3bd92$cc362040$4dae6742@DELL2> References: <002501c3bd92$cc362040$4dae6742@DELL2> Message-ID: <1067.199.199.150.145.1070892728.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Here's what Raymond Norton babbled earlier : > I need to move all existing users from a redhat 8 server to a new fedora server. Is > there a tool for importing them, or do I just copy over /etc/password and /home? Don't forget /etc/shadow -mj > > > > Raymond > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Mon Dec 8 08:36:38 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FD48C76.6060902@druswanderings.net> Sam MacDonald wrote: > I don't know why but I need to know the lowest levels of the OS first > and learn up. I also need to learn from the desktop down at the same > time. It works for me. If you want to get down and dirty, may I suggest the Linux From Scratch project( http://www.linuxfromscratch.org ). It's really a "book" that walks you through compiling your own linux system. It also does a good job of explaining what each package does and why you need it. Everybody should do it at least once. ;-) There is also a nice overview/explanation of the linux boot process over at linux.net( http://www.linux.net/intro/linuxboot.php ). It's actually part of a larger "intro to linux" they have. Good stuff. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Mon Dec 8 08:36:42 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SuSE OpenExchange server Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37E8@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I currently use this...it has worked great IMO few problems...lots of patches via YaST2...support from SuSE leaves a bit to be desired but other than that has been good...i have the demo for 4.0(4.1 just came out) if you are interested I don't use that anymore.... Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Tim Wilson Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:23 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] SuSE Openexchange server Hi everyone, We're looking into moving to a new platform at our school district for email/ groupware functions. One option is SuSE's Openexchange Server (http:// www.suse.com/us/business/products/openexchange/). Has anyone used this product and would be willing to offer comments? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Science teacher, Linux fan, Zope developer, Grad. student, Daddy mailto:wilson@visi.com | http://qwerk.org/ | public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Mon Dec 8 10:58:11 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031208165811.GA29932@karl> On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 12:23:27AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I have a related question about symlinks or "symbolic links" for the group. > > One of the things about NT that makes it easy to understand is the use > of the registry. The registry links objects to what the object is used > for or to objects it uses. It organizes everything in a central Hierarchy. > No central registry exists in Linux that I have found, it feels You make the registry sound so clean and neat, I've always considered it a vast dumping ground for unrelated, unused configuration settings. I kinda preferred INI files, I'm a simple person. Maintaining the register is like dumpster diving. > scattered to me at this point. I can't go to one place and find the > guts of everything. Yes you can, its called "/etc" and it's easy enough to use. All the system configuration settings are in etc. Personal configurations are in home directories in a somewhat less organized way. (A home/person/etc might have been nice) > The essence of Linux is the File System and Symlinks if I'm not > mistaken, "Yes"? Yes, I think you are right. But not symlinks, symlinks is just a semi-useful trick that some file systems support. I doubt that a basic unix system requires them. > I need to be sure I'm understanding "in the Linux world" what I > understand in the NT world. > > Could it be said (without opening a can of flames) that, > symlinks do something similar to registry entries by pointing to > other objects. They are a secondary reference(or link) to files or folders, they can be used to organize(or disorganize) a file system. > I'm trying to take my NT registry knowledge that is the guts of the OS > and translate Linux in to that understanding. Remember NT was designed > by VAX guys, they took the guts of VAX and translated it in to the NT > registry. Kinda like what Compaq did with the PC BIOS ;-) I would not consider NT registry as the guts, its just a massive configuration file in binary format to save some space and provide some control(that perhaps the file system didn't provide). I don't know anything about VAX, did it have a registry? The guts in my opinion are the kernel and drivers that make up the system. > I don't know why but I need to know the lowest levels of the OS first > and learn up. I also need to learn from the desktop down at the same > time. It works for me. I've found that once you get used to it, the unix file system is logically organized. You can easily distinguish the various components and work with them. I can't say the same for the Windows system. It seems to change from year to year, today its tele-tuby land with "My music" and My programs", tommorrow it will be something else ("Our musac" and "Our Video", with "Your digital rights management"). NT/XP is an improvement over 95/98. I kinda wonder if people will find a way to hose it up as bad as 95/98. You know, your neighbor says, hey my computer is running really slow and crappy and has all these pop-ups. Then you have to go run msconfig and turn off dozens of useless "in your face" crapware that has accumulated. Hmm, I think I coined a new term here, "crapware". :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lists at chuckhays.net Mon Dec 8 09:05:02 2003 From: lists at chuckhays.net (Chuck Hays) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Looking for decent linux intro book Message-ID: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Hello all, My father is a fairly advanced windows user, and has a CS degree (albeit from 1971...), he however has never used linux, and would like to learn. I am looking for a book that balances server administration and desktop use both. Does anyone have any favorites? It definitely does not need to be "linux for dummies", but can't be too advanced. Thanks for your advice, -Chuck Hays lists@chuckhays.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at cdf123.com Mon Dec 8 09:35:27 2003 From: cdf123 at cdf123.com (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Looking for decent linux intro book In-Reply-To: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> References: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3FD49A3F.4030408@cdf123.com> Chuck Hays wrote: >Hello all, > >My father is a fairly advanced windows user, and has a CS degree (albeit >from 1971...), he however has never used linux, and would like to >learn. I am looking for a book that balances server administration and >desktop use both. Does anyone have any favorites? It definitely does >not need to be "linux for dummies", but can't be too advanced. > >Thanks for your advice, > >-Chuck Hays >lists@chuckhays.net > > My $0.02, buy a distro boxed set. (SuSE, Mandrake, RedHad, etc...) I got SuSE for my parents and the documentation in it covered most of the desktop, and the basics for the server apps. It's technical where it needs to be, and is fairly user friendly overall. That and you get the added perk of supporting your favorite distro as well, and most packs come with support as well. Chris Frederick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Mon Dec 8 09:48:00 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Looking for decent linux intro book In-Reply-To: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> References: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3FD49D30.2000603@andersonfam.org> How about Rute? http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/book/rute.html.gz It's a very good, free Linux book. It can be viewed online as well as downloaded in pdf or html format. -Erik Chuck Hays wrote: > Hello all, > > My father is a fairly advanced windows user, and has a CS degree (albeit > from 1971...), he however has never used linux, and would like to > learn. I am looking for a book that balances server administration and > desktop use both. Does anyone have any favorites? It definitely does > not need to be "linux for dummies", but can't be too advanced. > > Thanks for your advice, > > -Chuck Hays > lists@chuckhays.net > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Mon Dec 8 09:47:03 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Looking for decent linux intro book In-Reply-To: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> References: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Dec 8, 2003, at 9:05 AM, Chuck Hays wrote: > My father is a fairly advanced windows user, and has a CS degree > (albeit > from 1971...), he however has never used linux, and would like to > learn. I am looking for a book that balances server administration and > desktop use both. Does anyone have any favorites? It definitely does > not need to be "linux for dummies", but can't be too advanced. I cut my teeth with "Running Linux" from O'Reilly (http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/runux4/index.html) I thought it was excellent. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Mon Dec 8 09:36:52 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <20031208165811.GA29932@karl> Message-ID: Amen to ini files. I really hate when you need to spend hours looking for some binary setting in the registry to fix some program behaivor. Don't get me started on a corrupted registry. Chris Smith -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Karl Bongers Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:58 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Order of Execution On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 12:23:27AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I have a related question about symlinks or "symbolic links" for the group. > > One of the things about NT that makes it easy to understand is the use > of the registry. The registry links objects to what the object is used > for or to objects it uses. It organizes everything in a central Hierarchy. > No central registry exists in Linux that I have found, it feels You make the registry sound so clean and neat, I've always considered it a vast dumping ground for unrelated, unused configuration settings. I kinda preferred INI files, I'm a simple person. Maintaining the register is like dumpster diving. > scattered to me at this point. I can't go to one place and find the > guts of everything. Yes you can, its called "/etc" and it's easy enough to use. All the system configuration settings are in etc. Personal configurations are in home directories in a somewhat less organized way. (A home/person/etc might have been nice) > The essence of Linux is the File System and Symlinks if I'm not > mistaken, "Yes"? Yes, I think you are right. But not symlinks, symlinks is just a semi-useful trick that some file systems support. I doubt that a basic unix system requires them. > I need to be sure I'm understanding "in the Linux world" what I > understand in the NT world. > > Could it be said (without opening a can of flames) that, > symlinks do something similar to registry entries by pointing to > other objects. They are a secondary reference(or link) to files or folders, they can be used to organize(or disorganize) a file system. > I'm trying to take my NT registry knowledge that is the guts of the OS > and translate Linux in to that understanding. Remember NT was > designed by VAX guys, they took the guts of VAX and translated it in > to the NT registry. Kinda like what Compaq did with the PC BIOS ;-) I would not consider NT registry as the guts, its just a massive configuration file in binary format to save some space and provide some control(that perhaps the file system didn't provide). I don't know anything about VAX, did it have a registry? The guts in my opinion are the kernel and drivers that make up the system. > I don't know why but I need to know the lowest levels of the OS first > and learn up. I also need to learn from the desktop down at the same > time. It works for me. I've found that once you get used to it, the unix file system is logically organized. You can easily distinguish the various components and work with them. I can't say the same for the Windows system. It seems to change from year to year, today its tele-tuby land with "My music" and My programs", tommorrow it will be something else ("Our musac" and "Our Video", with "Your digital rights management"). NT/XP is an improvement over 95/98. I kinda wonder if people will find a way to hose it up as bad as 95/98. You know, your neighbor says, hey my computer is running really slow and crappy and has all these pop-ups. Then you have to go run msconfig and turn off dozens of useless "in your face" crapware that has accumulated. Hmm, I think I coined a new term here, "crapware". :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jonathon at quotidian.org Mon Dec 8 09:53:30 2003 From: jonathon at quotidian.org (Jonathon Jongsma) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Looking for decent linux intro book In-Reply-To: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> References: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3FD49E7A.6090902@quotidian.org> google for "rute". It's fairly comprehensive, free, and online. Otherwise, i think "Running Linux" from O'Reilly is pretty good. Chuck Hays wrote: >Hello all, > >My father is a fairly advanced windows user, and has a CS degree (albeit >from 1971...), he however has never used linux, and would like to >learn. I am looking for a book that balances server administration and >desktop use both. Does anyone have any favorites? It definitely does >not need to be "linux for dummies", but can't be too advanced. > >Thanks for your advice, > >-Chuck Hays >lists@chuckhays.net > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Mon Dec 8 08:51:53 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SuSE OpenExchange server In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37E8@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: Another option I've used and think is pretty great is the SME Server from Mitel.. Formerly the e-smith. I've used SME server which has a strong development community with many contribs and is free if you don't want support. It includes Qmail for Imap a very easy to use web interface, etc... www.e-smith.org (the open-source portal) www.contribs.com ( a bunch of contribs) The mailing list has always answered any questions I have had. This solution is weak on groupware though twiggi is avail. Chris -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Tim Wilson Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:23 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] SuSE Openexchange server Hi everyone, We're looking into moving to a new platform at our school district for email/ groupware functions. One option is SuSE's Openexchange Server (http:// www.suse.com/us/business/products/openexchange/). Has anyone used this product and would be willing to offer comments? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Science teacher, Linux fan, Zope developer, Grad. student, Daddy mailto:wilson@visi.com | http://qwerk.org/ | public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Mon Dec 8 12:02:03 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reviews site In-Reply-To: <20031206115757.C5398@thinkunix.net> References: <1070682495.5715.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20031206114633.A5398@thinkunix.net> <20031206115757.C5398@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20031208180203.GF31058@autonomous.tv> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Mon Dec 8 13:44:47 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <20031208165811.GA29932@karl> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> <20031208165811.GA29932@karl> Message-ID: <20031208194447.GA8290@therub.org> Sam, On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 08:58:11AM -0800, Karl Bongers wrote: > On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 12:23:27AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > I have a related question about symlinks or "symbolic links" for the group. A symlink is analagous to a shortcut in windows. it's just a pointer to a file. I lost your initial post, but you made symlinks sound like they were some foundation of the OS. They're not, they're just a neat trick. dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 8 13:02:04 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <20031208133556.GA20968@refried.org> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> <20031208133556.GA20968@refried.org> Message-ID: <3FD4CAAC.3070906@visi.com> I cut my teeth on ini files SQL.INI was my first job beyond straight help desk work. Sam. nate@refried.org wrote: >On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 12:23:27AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>One of the things about NT that makes it easy to understand is the use >>of the registry. The registry links objects to what the object is used >>for or to objects it uses. It organizes everything in a central Hierarchy. >>No central registry exists in Linux that I have found, it feels >>scattered to me at this point. I can't go to one place and find the >>guts of everything. >> >> > >If you want a detailed explaination, look at the File Hierarchy Standard >put out by the Linux Standards Base. I'll do my best as a short >explaination here. > >Believe it or not, Linux is very organized. Much more than most unixes >I've seen (IRIX especially). Debian especially strives to adhere to the >FHS. > >/etc Generally, all system wide configuration files go here. > >/bin Basic system utilities that everyone can use go here. > >/sbin Basic system utilities that only root can use go here. > >/usr This is where static data and programs go. Some systems can > mount this read-only or over NFS. > >/var This is where variable data for programs on this system go. > >/lib System libraries needed by programs in /bin and /sbin go here. > >/usr/share/doc This is where documentation on a per-package basis goes. > >/usr/lib Most of the system libraries go here. > >/var/log All system logs go here on Linux. > >/lib/modules Kernel modules > >/usr/include Header files for development > >/usr/local Programs that are not part of the base distribution > generally go here. > >Sure, it may look like there are lots of places to go, but it's all in >one namespace. You don't need specialized tools to walk around it and >change things. It'll become second nature once you use it more. > >Nate >- Who preferred .ini files over the registry > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 8 13:13:27 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Looking for decent linux intro book In-Reply-To: <3FD49D30.2000603@andersonfam.org> References: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> <3FD49D30.2000603@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <3FD4CD57.8030909@visi.com> Careful the link to the html document goes to http://xaura-vip.tiscali.co.za/tiscali/?icon=1 and the PDF link gives an error of "file does not start with (% PDF) It hung the Mozilla 1.4 connection. Sam. Erik Anderson wrote: > How about Rute? > > http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/book/rute.html.gz > > It's a very good, free Linux book. It can be viewed online as well as > downloaded in pdf or html format. > > -Erik > > Chuck Hays wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> My father is a fairly advanced windows user, and has a CS degree (albeit >> from 1971...), he however has never used linux, and would like to >> learn. I am looking for a book that balances server administration and >> desktop use both. Does anyone have any favorites? It definitely does >> not need to be "linux for dummies", but can't be too advanced. >> >> Thanks for your advice, >> >> -Chuck Hays >> lists@chuckhays.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 8 13:06:30 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Looking for decent linux intro book In-Reply-To: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> References: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3FD4CBB6.4050003@visi.com> If your Father is/was a mainframe guy he may be farther ahead of then game then you think. IBM mainframes use MVS and other UNIX like systems. Sam. Chuck Hays wrote: >Hello all, > >My father is a fairly advanced windows user, and has a CS degree (albeit >from 1971...), he however has never used linux, and would like to >learn. I am looking for a book that balances server administration and >desktop use both. Does anyone have any favorites? It definitely does >not need to be "linux for dummies", but can't be too advanced. > >Thanks for your advice, > >-Chuck Hays >lists@chuckhays.net > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 8 13:09:46 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FD4CC7A.8030904@visi.com> Corrupt registry? backup, backup, backup, and restore. Sam. Christopher Smith wrote: >Amen to ini files. >I really hate when you need to spend hours looking for some binary setting >in the registry to fix some program behaivor. Don't get me started on a >corrupted registry. > >Chris Smith > > >-----Original Message----- >From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Karl Bongers >Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:58 AM >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Order of Execution > >On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 12:23:27AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>I have a related question about symlinks or "symbolic links" for the >> >> >group. > > >>One of the things about NT that makes it easy to understand is the use >>of the registry. The registry links objects to what the object is used >>for or to objects it uses. It organizes everything in a central >> >> >Hierarchy. > > >>No central registry exists in Linux that I have found, it feels >> >> > >You make the registry sound so clean and neat, I've always considered it a >vast dumping ground for unrelated, unused configuration settings. >I kinda preferred INI files, I'm a simple person. >Maintaining the register is like dumpster diving. > > > >>scattered to me at this point. I can't go to one place and find the >>guts of everything. >> >> > >Yes you can, its called "/etc" and it's easy enough to use. All the system >configuration settings are in etc. Personal configurations are in home >directories in a somewhat less organized way. >(A home/person/etc might have been nice) > > > >>The essence of Linux is the File System and Symlinks if I'm not >>mistaken, "Yes"? >> >> > >Yes, I think you are right. >But not symlinks, symlinks is just a semi-useful trick that some file >systems support. I doubt that a basic unix system requires them. > > > >>I need to be sure I'm understanding "in the Linux world" what I >>understand in the NT world. >> >>Could it be said (without opening a can of flames) that, >> symlinks do something similar to registry entries by pointing to >>other objects. >> >> > >They are a secondary reference(or link) to files or folders, they can be >used to organize(or disorganize) a file system. > > > >>I'm trying to take my NT registry knowledge that is the guts of the OS >>and translate Linux in to that understanding. Remember NT was >>designed by VAX guys, they took the guts of VAX and translated it in >>to the NT registry. Kinda like what Compaq did with the PC BIOS ;-) >> >> > >I would not consider NT registry as the guts, its just a massive >configuration file in binary format to save some space and provide some >control(that perhaps the file system didn't provide). >I don't know anything about VAX, did it have a registry? >The guts in my opinion are the kernel and drivers that make up the system. > > > >>I don't know why but I need to know the lowest levels of the OS first >>and learn up. I also need to learn from the desktop down at the same >>time. It works for me. >> >> > >I've found that once you get used to it, the unix file system is logically >organized. You can easily distinguish the various components and work with >them. I can't say the same for the Windows system. >It seems to change from year to year, today its tele-tuby land with "My >music" and My programs", tommorrow it will be something else ("Our musac" >and "Our Video", with "Your digital rights management"). > >NT/XP is an improvement over 95/98. I kinda wonder if people will find a >way to hose it up as bad as 95/98. You know, your neighbor says, hey my >computer is running really slow and crappy and has all these pop-ups. Then >you have to go run msconfig and turn off dozens of useless "in your face" >crapware that has accumulated. >Hmm, I think I coined a new term here, "crapware". :) > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 8 13:41:06 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <20031208194447.GA8290@therub.org> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> <20031208165811.GA29932@karl> <20031208194447.GA8290@therub.org> Message-ID: <3FD4D3D2.7090901@visi.com> Ya know I thought of using "shortcut" as my windows side comparison but I didn't want to start a flame war raining down on the list. :-D Sam. Dan Rue wrote: >Sam, > >On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 08:58:11AM -0800, Karl Bongers wrote: > > >>On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 12:23:27AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: >> >> >>>I have a related question about symlinks or "symbolic links" for the group. >>> >>> >A symlink is analagous to a shortcut in windows. it's just a pointer to >a file. I lost your initial post, but you made symlinks sound like they >were some foundation of the OS. They're not, they're just a neat trick. > >dan > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 8 13:42:13 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reviews site In-Reply-To: <20031208180203.GF31058@autonomous.tv> References: <1070682495.5715.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20031206114633.A5398@thinkunix.net> <20031206115757.C5398@thinkunix.net> <20031208180203.GF31058@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <3FD4D415.6000007@visi.com> LOLROF stone cold sober. Sam. Spencer Butler wrote: >On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 11:57:57AM -0600, Scot Jenkins wrote: > > >>Scot Jenkins wrote: >> >> >>>Scott J Julian wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Good idea, I would love to drink a few beers with you guys and gals and >>>>learn more about linux. How about a BeerInstallFest??? Catch a buzz, >>>>install some distros, and do some >>>>gaming??? >>>> >>>> >>>a word of advice: don't drink an root. >>> >>> >>er, that should be "don't drink and root" >> >> >How else are you suppose to learn how to fix a box? The best tool I >have found for learning Linux is drunken root access ;-). > >Seriously though, that is sound advice (unless you are a gluten for >punishment like me) to not drink and root. I remember someone saying, >on this list I believe, that they set a cron job to lock them out of >root on Friday and Saturday nights. Silly geeks... > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 8 13:37:07 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution (OFF TOPIC) In-Reply-To: <20031208165811.GA29932@karl> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> <20031208165811.GA29932@karl> Message-ID: <3FD4D2E3.1040809@visi.com> Speaking of "crapware" I went looking for software to convert fractions to decimals yesterday. My daughter is starting Algebra this year, I need to correct her answers not learn algebra from scratch again, the review is great! I found a good one http://archives.math.utk.edu/software/msdos/k-12/fraction/.html and then I found and evil POS (Piece Of $h!t) that really had me hot at... http://www.icontoday.com/download/ProgramList.cfm?Id=5&CatId=45 Called "Math Homework Maker" the link went to this place http://math.official.ws/math.exe It carried a payload of a time sync application that did not ask to be installed. Evil twice because when I uninstalled it, My browser opened and they asked why I was uninstalling the software. They now know why in no uncertain terms ;-D I then sent an eMail to CERT just for fun, I thought about sending an eMail to the DHS (Department of Homeland Security) but stopped short of doing that. The word "payload" was in the eMail to CERT so I figure they have it already. Sam. Karl Bongers wrote: >On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 12:23:27AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>I have a related question about symlinks or "symbolic links" for the group. >> >>One of the things about NT that makes it easy to understand is the use >>of the registry. The registry links objects to what the object is used >>for or to objects it uses. It organizes everything in a central Hierarchy. >>No central registry exists in Linux that I have found, it feels >> >> > >You make the registry sound so clean and neat, I've always considered >it a vast dumping ground for unrelated, unused configuration settings. >I kinda preferred INI files, I'm a simple person. >Maintaining the register is like dumpster diving. > > > >>scattered to me at this point. I can't go to one place and find the >>guts of everything. >> >> > >Yes you can, its called "/etc" and it's easy enough to use. All the >system configuration settings are in etc. Personal configurations >are in home directories in a somewhat less organized way. >(A home/person/etc might have been nice) > > > >>The essence of Linux is the File System and Symlinks if I'm not >>mistaken, "Yes"? >> >> > >Yes, I think you are right. >But not symlinks, symlinks is just a semi-useful trick that some >file systems support. I doubt that a basic unix system requires >them. > > > >>I need to be sure I'm understanding "in the Linux world" what I >>understand in the NT world. >> >>Could it be said (without opening a can of flames) that, >> symlinks do something similar to registry entries by pointing to >>other objects. >> >> > >They are a secondary reference(or link) to files or folders, >they can be used to organize(or disorganize) a file system. > > > >>I'm trying to take my NT registry knowledge that is the guts of the OS >>and translate Linux in to that understanding. Remember NT was designed >>by VAX guys, they took the guts of VAX and translated it in to the NT >>registry. Kinda like what Compaq did with the PC BIOS ;-) >> >> > >I would not consider NT registry as the guts, its just a massive >configuration file in binary format to save some space and provide >some control(that perhaps the file system didn't provide). >I don't know anything about VAX, did it have a registry? >The guts in my opinion are the kernel and drivers that make up the system. > > > >>I don't know why but I need to know the lowest levels of the OS first >>and learn up. I also need to learn from the desktop down at the same >>time. It works for me. >> >> > >I've found that once you get used to it, the unix file system is >logically organized. You can easily distinguish the various components >and work with them. I can't say the same for the Windows system. >It seems to change from year to year, today its tele-tuby land with >"My music" and My programs", tommorrow it will be something else >("Our musac" and "Our Video", with "Your digital rights management"). > >NT/XP is an improvement over 95/98. I kinda wonder >if people will find a way to hose it up as bad as 95/98. You know, >your neighbor says, hey my computer is running really slow and crappy >and has all these pop-ups. Then you have to go run msconfig and turn >off dozens of useless "in your face" crapware that has accumulated. >Hmm, I think I coined a new term here, "crapware". :) > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bgilbertson at stonel.com Mon Dec 8 13:55:41 2003 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Looking for decent linux intro book In-Reply-To: <3FD4CD57.8030909@visi.com> References: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> <3FD49D30.2000603@andersonfam.org> <3FD4CD57.8030909@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FD4D73D.4050603@stonel.com> Need to have bunzip2 as helper app., or use to download first then unpack with bunzip2 or equiv. Both HTML and PDF work for me. Bob Sam MacDonald wrote: > Careful the link to the html document goes to > http://xaura-vip.tiscali.co.za/tiscali/?icon=1 > and the PDF link gives an error of "file does not start with (% PDF) > It hung the Mozilla 1.4 connection. > > Sam. > > Erik Anderson wrote: > >> How about Rute? >> >> http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/book/rute.html.gz >> >> It's a very good, free Linux book. It can be viewed online as well as >> downloaded in pdf or html format. >> >> -Erik >> >> Chuck Hays wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> My father is a fairly advanced windows user, and has a CS degree (albeit >>> from 1971...), he however has never used linux, and would like to >>> learn. I am looking for a book that balances server administration and >>> desktop use both. Does anyone have any favorites? It definitely does >>> not need to be "linux for dummies", but can't be too advanced. >>> >>> Thanks for your advice, >>> >>> -Chuck Hays >>> lists@chuckhays.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Mon Dec 8 14:33:02 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Looking for decent linux intro book In-Reply-To: <3FD4CD57.8030909@visi.com> References: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> <3FD49D30.2000603@andersonfam.org> <3FD4CD57.8030909@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FD4DFFE.2030601@comcast.net> The "rute" pdf file will not open in the Mozilla browser, since it is compressed. You need to right click on it and choose "Save Link Target As...", once it is downloaded, use the appropriate uncompression tool to expand it. Personally, I downloaded it on my Win98SE machine and used UltimateZip to uncompress it. Sam MacDonald wrote: > Careful the link to the html document goes to > http://xaura-vip.tiscali.co.za/tiscali/?icon=1 > and the PDF link gives an error of "file does not start with (% PDF) > It hung the Mozilla 1.4 connection. > > Sam. > > Erik Anderson wrote: > >> How about Rute? >> >> http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/book/rute.html.gz >> >> It's a very good, free Linux book. It can be viewed online as well as >> downloaded in pdf or html format. >> >> -Erik >> >> Chuck Hays wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> My father is a fairly advanced windows user, and has a CS degree (albeit >>> from 1971...), he however has never used linux, and would like to >>> learn. I am looking for a book that balances server administration and >>> desktop use both. Does anyone have any favorites? It definitely does >>> not need to be "linux for dummies", but can't be too advanced. >>> >>> Thanks for your advice, >>> >>> -Chuck Hays >>> lists@chuckhays.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sgrobe at mn.rr.com Mon Dec 8 16:49:17 2003 From: sgrobe at mn.rr.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Looking for decent linux intro book In-Reply-To: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> References: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3FD4FFED.5010403@mn.rr.com> A third vote for "Running Linux". _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Mon Dec 8 16:49:16 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com><200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com><200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com><20031208165811.GA29932@karl> <20031208194447.GA8290@therub.org> Message-ID: <003101c3bddd$82736ad0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Dan Rue writes: > I lost your initial post, but you made symlinks sound like > they were some foundation of the OS. They're not, they're just > a neat trick. Symbolic links are a UNIX feature and are part of the kernel. They are not "just a neat trick". As an example, readlink(2) is a Linux kernel system call. In 2.4 the source is in fs/stat.c. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Mon Dec 8 16:57:45 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution (OFF TOPIC) References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com><3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com><3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> <20031208165811.GA29932@karl> <3FD4D2E3.1040809@visi.com> Message-ID: <006601c3bdde$b1b563b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Sam MacDonald writes: > Speaking of "crapware" I went looking for software to convert > fractions to decimals yesterday. A fraction is division. To convert 5/4 you would divide five by four, getting 1.25. Windows comes with a calculator. On UNIX you have bc, or my favorite, the interactive Python interpreter (simply run "python"). > I found and evil POS (Piece Of $h!t) that really had me hot at... > http://www.icontoday.com/download/ProgramList.cfm?Id=5&CatId=45 > Called "Math Homework Maker" the link went to this place > http://math.official.ws/math.exe > It carried a payload of a time sync application that did not ask to be > installed. Evil twice because when I uninstalled it, My browser > opened and they asked why I was uninstalling the software. The software installer clearly indicates that it is going to install companion software, both on the initial screen and in the license agreement. There is evil spyware out there, but this certainly isn't an example of it. http://david.maridia.com/tmp/math_homework_maker.png You can't blame the installer because you didn't read what it said it was going to install. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Mon Dec 8 18:29:38 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Looking for decent linux intro book In-Reply-To: <3FD4FFED.5010403@mn.rr.com> References: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> <3FD4FFED.5010403@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031209002938.GA11026@therub.org> On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 04:49:17PM -0600, Steve Grobe wrote: > A third vote for "Running Linux". After wasting money on some shoddy books, I stick exclusively with the O'Reilly line these days, with the notable exception of "UNIX System Administration Handbook"[1] which is ...well, not O'Reilly. I havn't used Running Linux, but I would buy it if I wasn't already a linux master ;) dan [1]: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130206016/qid=1070925837/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-9084031-0628956 > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Mon Dec 8 17:40:41 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Smoothwall v2 Message-ID: <3FD50BF9.4050703@comcast.net> For those who care..... Smoothwall version 2 final has been released. http://www.smoothwall.org/ http://smoothwall.org/get/ Apparently, the "get" portion of the site has been "slashdotted". -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Mon Dec 8 18:44:05 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Smoothwall v2 In-Reply-To: <3FD50BF9.4050703@comcast.net> References: <3FD50BF9.4050703@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031209004405.GD2167@techmonkeys.org> I believe that those of us interested in /. content can check for ourselves. > Apparently, the "get" portion of the site has been "slashdotted". smile> > -- > Todd Young > 7079 Dawn Ave. E. > Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From followerofhim2001 at comcast.net Mon Dec 8 19:36:45 2003 From: followerofhim2001 at comcast.net (followerofhim2001@comcast.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Still here despite Comcast Message-ID: <120920030136.20571.17b9@comcast.net> I moved from St. Paul to River Falls and comcast change my e-mail but it looks like it is working again. > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tclug-list-owner@mn-linux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Ranting/Raving/just POed. (bradyh@bitstream.net) > 2. Re: Ranting/Raving/just POed. (Sam MacDonald) > 3. Re: Ranting/Raving/just POed. (Sam MacDonald) > 4. Re: Help installing Request Tracker (RT) Digest-MD5 (Gerry) > 5. Re: RE: OT: Exploding CDROM (Munir Nassar) > 6. Re: Ranting/Raving/just POed. (Kent Schumacher) > 7. Re: RE: OT: Exploding CDROM (Adam Maloney) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:51:55 -0600 > From: bradyh@bitstream.net > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: <1070380315.3fccb51bbd331@mail.bitstream.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > GDM is the Gnome Display Manager but a lot of people use it because it's a > pretty good one. If it's noticably slowing down your system you could probably > use more memory. > > I've never tried it but if you're on an rpm based distro you should be able to > remove it using: > rpm -e gdm > > Brady > > Quoting Sam MacDonald : > > > Story of my life with Linux. > > > > Does Linux (the system) turn gnome off when it starts KDE, for us KDE users? > > I think the answer is "no" because it needs it after a logout to > > prompt for login. > > So KDE users get the honor of using both KDE and gnome at the > > same time? > > > > > > So because I made the mistake, missing the "last" dialog box that says > > something like "do you want to use a graphical login? with the default > > of "use a graphical login". I've been cursed with a graphical login. > > > > If you remember our brave (ignorant) Linux user is also trying to get > > rid of the graphical login. See the thread "Lost". In the middle I put > > something about changing from graphical to terminal login. > > > > So I change the "inittab" file so it uses a "3" for multiuser login > > instead of a "5" for X11 and restart the machine. > > (Thanks to all for the information) > > > > Now this does not solve the original problem, it did stop the message > > coming up every 2 -5 minutes. Even without X windows running the message > > would display. Did I say X windows would start KDE without any > > problem? Well it does, but the message would pop up as above until I > > change "inittab". > > OH did I say X windows is running about 20% faster now? OH I didn't, > > well it is running about 20% faster then when I had the graphical > > login. Best guess; 2 windows managers were running all the time. > > > > Did I say OO Writer starts then it did before the change to a terminal > > login. Well it starts in 1 minute 25 seconds instead of 1 minute 55 > > seconds. Yes, I timed it when I first installed it. > > > > > > Back to the original problem... > > > > So I set the permissions using the file manager but now the error is (it > > was before changeling to terminal login) > > > > "Server Authorization directory (Daemon/ServAuthdir) is set to /var/gdm > > but has the wrong permissions, it should have permissions of 0750. > > Please correct the permissions or the gdm configuration > > /etc/X11/gem/gdm.conf and restart gdm" > > > > For the life of me I can't remember what the "human" values of 0750 > > are. And I can't remember the command to set permissions. The > > permissions should be corrected just in case I want to torcher myself > > with a graphical login in some far off time. > > > > Sam. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:09:43 -0600 > From: Sam MacDonald > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: <3FCCB947.3010902@visi.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Cool, I changed the permissions to the directory > > chmod 0750 gdm > > I might test it later (put the graphical login back in place) but I > doubt it will be a priority. > > Michael Vieths wrote: > > > Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > >> For the life of me I can't remember what the "human" values of 0750 > >> are. And I can't remember the command to set permissions. The > >> permissions should be corrected just in case I want to torcher myself > >> with a graphical login in some far off time. > >> > >> Sam. > > > > > > That'd be 0 (sticky bit, you can pretty much ignore this one), 7 > > (read/write/execute for user), 5 (read and execute for group), and 0 > > (allow nothing for other users who aren't in your group). > > > > Use chmod to change them. It works out to: > > > > 4 Read > > 2 Write > > 1 Execute > > > > So, 4+2+1=7, for 'read/write/execute', or '4+1=5' for 'read/execute'. > > > > To change a file to 0750, you'd do 'chmod 0750 filename'. You can > > also do more readable versions: > > > > chmod u+r filename > > will add read permissions for users to filename. Also works with -r > > (remove read), or +w/-w to add or remove write, and +x/-x to add or > > remove execute. Use u for user, g for group, o for everyone else, and > > a for all three. > > > > Hope this is helpful. > > > > Michael Vieths > > Foeclan@Visi.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:15:00 -0600 > From: Sam MacDonald > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: <3FCCBA84.2050400@visi.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Just changing to a terminal login fixed the problem because gdm does not > need to run. The login is not graphical so... > > It only starts if graphical login is the option used in inittab. I > then fixed the permissions problem and might test it by setting the > login back to graphical in the inittab. Low priority btw. > > Sam. > > bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > > >GDM is the Gnome Display Manager but a lot of people use it because it's a > >pretty good one. If it's noticably slowing down your system you could probably > >use more memory. > > > >I've never tried it but if you're on an rpm based distro you should be able to > >remove it using: > >rpm -e gdm > > > >Brady > > > >Quoting Sam MacDonald : > > > > > > > >>Story of my life with Linux. > >> > >>Does Linux (the system) turn gnome off when it starts KDE, for us KDE users? > >> I think the answer is "no" because it needs it after a logout to > >>prompt for login. > >> So KDE users get the honor of using both KDE and gnome at the > >>same time? > >> > >> > >>So because I made the mistake, missing the "last" dialog box that says > >>something like "do you want to use a graphical login? with the default > >>of "use a graphical login". I've been cursed with a graphical login. > >> > >>If you remember our brave (ignorant) Linux user is also trying to get > >>rid of the graphical login. See the thread "Lost". In the middle I put > >>something about changing from graphical to terminal login. > >> > >>So I change the "inittab" file so it uses a "3" for multiuser login > >>instead of a "5" for X11 and restart the machine. > >> (Thanks to all for the information) > >> > >>Now this does not solve the original problem, it did stop the message > >>coming up every 2 -5 minutes. Even without X windows running the message > >>would display. Did I say X windows would start KDE without any > >>problem? Well it does, but the message would pop up as above until I > >>change "inittab". > >>OH did I say X windows is running about 20% faster now? OH I didn't, > >>well it is running about 20% faster then when I had the graphical > >>login. Best guess; 2 windows managers were running all the time. > >> > >>Did I say OO Writer starts then it did before the change to a terminal > >>login. Well it starts in 1 minute 25 seconds instead of 1 minute 55 > >>seconds. Yes, I timed it when I first installed it. > >> > >> > >>Back to the original problem... > >> > >>So I set the permissions using the file manager but now the error is (it > >>was before changeling to terminal login) > >> > >>"Server Authorization directory (Daemon/ServAuthdir) is set to /var/gdm > >>but has the wrong permissions, it should have permissions of 0750. > >>Please correct the permissions or the gdm configuration > >>/etc/X11/gem/gdm.conf and restart gdm" > >> > >>For the life of me I can't remember what the "human" values of 0750 > >>are. And I can't remember the command to set permissions. The > >>permissions should be corrected just in case I want to torcher myself > >>with a graphical login in some far off time. > >> > >>Sam. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:35:46 -0600 (CST) > From: Gerry > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Help installing Request Tracker (RT) Digest-MD5 > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Hay! I was just pondering whether I should post a VERY simlar question! > > The error that Chris is getting is the exact error I get when I try to build > Tk at home. It builds fine on my work machine and they are both RedHat 9 > machines! If you (chris) look at Makefile in your cpan build directory, > you might see a Mess!!!! ExtUtils::MakeMaker is hosing the whole thing up > somehow and I can't figure it out! > . . . . > I _JUST_ went googling for this and found reference to a problem with LANG in > the newsgroups! > I set LANG to en_US and rebuilt and guess what! It worked! > I also found a thread exactly about Digest::MD5. > (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=MakeMaker+acting+very+very+weird) > > So, Chris, try this -- > > export LANG=en_US > perl -MCPAN -e"install Digest::MD5" > > And let us know how far you get! > Thanks for the motivation to fix this. I have a nice stock watching program > that required it! (http://dirk.eddelbuettel.com/code/smtm.html). > > A little more research revealed that LANG is unset at work and set to > en_US.UTF-8 at home. > > Gerry > > On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Chris Schumann wrote: > > > From: "John J. Trammell" > > > 1. You can always install the Perl module "by hand"--no need to > > > use CPAN. > > Well, I'm not sure how to do that. If I use "perl -MCPAN -eshell" and then > > "install Digest::MD5" the same thing happens. > > > [SNIP] > > Makefile.PL is used to build Makefile (it says "Writing Makefile for > > Digest::MD5") and then the make error appears. > > > > CPAN.pm: Going to build G/GA/GAAS/Digest-MD5-2.31.tar.gz > > > > Testing alignment requirements for U32... no restrictions > > Checking if your kit is complete... > > Looks good > > Writing Makefile for Digest::MD5 > > Makefile:84: *** missing separator. Stop. > > /usr/bin/make -j3 -- NOT OK > > > > Any other ideas or pointers where to look? > > Chris > > -- > Gerry Skerbitz > gsker@tcfreenet.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:44:47 -0600 (CST) > From: Munir Nassar > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Adam Maloney wrote: > > > I don't remember any of the numbers, but the Caddy driver ended up > > calling the ambulance/coroner for the VW driver, who would have been > > catapulted 60+ feet through the windshield (assuming no seatbelt, no > > windshield). Made me feel a lot better about driving my (solid-frame, > > all-steel, full-sized, '89 Crown Vic) Shaggin' Wagon. > > yeah, but you would also have the meanest case of whiplash(sp?) in the > world. > > most people assume that cars are not build like they used to because cars > nowadays crumple when hit. It is true that they are not built like they > used to, they are in fact designed to crumple. think of the part that > crumples as the foam that protects the harddrive when the UPS guy is > chugging it into the back of his truck! > > bet you did not take that into account as you were making the > calculations > > -- > Munir Nassar > RedConcepts.NET > http://redconcepts.net/ > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:54:41 -0600 > From: Kent Schumacher > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Ranting/Raving/just POed. > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: <3FCCC3D1.4000500@structural-wood.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > You can temporarily switch to graphical login using the command > > telinit 5 > > and back to a textual login using > > telinit 3 > > Good for testing your {g,x,k}dm setup. > > Note that if your {g,x,k}dm setup is bad, you can (probably) do > a [ctrl[alt][backspace] to kill the X-server and get back to > a text prompt. > > {[(Kent)]} > > > > Sam MacDonald wrote: > > Just changing to a terminal login fixed the problem because gdm does not > > need to run. The login is not graphical so... > > > > It only starts if graphical login is the option used in inittab. I > > then fixed the permissions problem and might test it by setting the > > login back to graphical in the inittab. Low priority btw. > > > > Sam. > > > > bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > > > >> GDM is the Gnome Display Manager but a lot of people use it because > >> it's a > >> pretty good one. If it's noticably slowing down your system you could > >> probably > >> use more memory. > >> > >> I've never tried it but if you're on an rpm based distro you should be > >> able to > >> remove it using: > >> rpm -e gdm > >> > >> Brady > >> > >> Quoting Sam MacDonald : > >> > >> > >> > >>> Story of my life with Linux. > >>> > >>> Does Linux (the system) turn gnome off when it starts KDE, for us KDE > >>> users? > >>> I think the answer is "no" because it needs it after a logout to > >>> prompt for login. > >>> So KDE users get the honor of using both KDE and gnome at the > >>> same time? > >>> > >>> > >>> So because I made the mistake, missing the "last" dialog box that > >>> says something like "do you want to use a graphical login? with the > >>> default of "use a graphical login". I've been cursed with a > >>> graphical login. > >>> > >>> If you remember our brave (ignorant) Linux user is also trying to get > >>> rid of the graphical login. See the thread "Lost". In the middle I > >>> put something about changing from graphical to terminal login. > >>> > >>> So I change the "inittab" file so it uses a "3" for multiuser login > >>> instead of a "5" for X11 and restart the machine. > >>> (Thanks to all for the information) > >>> > >>> Now this does not solve the original problem, it did stop the message > >>> coming up every 2 -5 minutes. Even without X windows running the > >>> message would display. Did I say X windows would start KDE without > >>> any problem? Well it does, but the message would pop up as above > >>> until I change "inittab". > >>> OH did I say X windows is running about 20% faster now? OH I didn't, > >>> well it is running about 20% faster then when I had the graphical > >>> login. Best guess; 2 windows managers were running all the time. > >>> > >>> Did I say OO Writer starts then it did before the change to a > >>> terminal login. Well it starts in 1 minute 25 seconds instead of 1 > >>> minute 55 seconds. Yes, I timed it when I first installed it. > >>> > >>> > >>> Back to the original problem... > >>> > >>> So I set the permissions using the file manager but now the error is > >>> (it was before changeling to terminal login) > >>> "Server Authorization directory (Daemon/ServAuthdir) is set to > >>> /var/gdm but has the wrong permissions, it should have permissions of > >>> 0750. Please correct the permissions or the gdm configuration > >>> /etc/X11/gem/gdm.conf and restart gdm" > >>> > >>> For the life of me I can't remember what the "human" values of 0750 > >>> are. And I can't remember the command to set permissions. The > >>> permissions should be corrected just in case I want to torcher myself > >>> with a graphical login in some far off time. > >>> > >>> Sam. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:31:50 -0600 > From: Adam Maloney > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] RE: OT: Exploding CDROM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: <1070386308.23411.116.camel@unixws1> > Content-Type: text/plain > > No we didn't. But at the risk of starting a flamewar, I'd like to point > out that the number of accident-related fatalities in Minnesota hasn't > changed significantly in the last 20 years (since the advent of things > like (picture Chris Farley here...) "seatbelt laws", and "crumple zones" > and "a .06 legal limit"). It has changed, but not a big (forgive the > pun) dent, like you would expect based on all of the safety requirements > and advances that have supposedly happened. > > (Okay, don't get all mad here, I'm going on a rant, and lots of this is > tongue-in-cheek) > > Sure, at 60mph head-on I wouldn't *mind* having a crumple zone and some > airbags, but an injury accident is a game of mass, and the guy driving > the '03 Civic with all of his sissy space-aged safety widgets, NASA > plastic body, a 6" tailpipe, and a 400hp stereo in a 150hp car, is > probably going to be much worse off than I would have been in my > Exxon-Valdez (the Shaggin' Wagon's other name, it was a tanker, and it > leaked oil). > > Carl knows what I'm talking about - he had that pimpin' 80's Caddy. I > got comments from the guys at the Meth lab across the street for days > after he stopped by in that beast. All the ladies want him, and all the > crank addicts want to *be* him! > > Hell, the wagon HAD crumple zones...someone ran a red and drove into the > rear quarter-panel (behind the rear tire), dented it in. Did I have to > fly some Japanese guy to America with special tools and paint to fix it > up? No! We took an 8-pound sledge and pounded that dent out. That > rat-bastard fled the scene too. > > > On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 10:44, Munir Nassar wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Adam Maloney wrote: > > > > > I don't remember any of the numbers, but the Caddy driver ended up > > > calling the ambulance/coroner for the VW driver, who would have been > > > catapulted 60+ feet through the windshield (assuming no seatbelt, no > > > windshield). Made me feel a lot better about driving my (solid-frame, > > > all-steel, full-sized, '89 Crown Vic) Shaggin' Wagon. > > > > yeah, but you would also have the meanest case of whiplash(sp?) in the > > world. > > > > most people assume that cars are not build like they used to because cars > > nowadays crumple when hit. It is true that they are not built like they > > used to, they are in fact designed to crumple. think of the part that > > crumples as the foam that protects the harddrive when the UPS guy is > > chugging it into the back of his truck! > > > > bet you did not take that into account as you were making the > > calculations > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 3, Issue 9 > **************************************** _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Mon Dec 8 22:34:09 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Looking for decent linux intro book In-Reply-To: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> References: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200312082234.09826.jack@jacku.com> On Monday 08 December 2003 09:05 am, Chuck Hays wrote: > Hello all, > > My father is a fairly advanced windows user, and has a CS degree (albeit > from 1971...), he however has never used linux, and would like to > learn. I am looking for a book that balances server administration and > desktop use both. Does anyone have any favorites? It definitely does > not need to be "linux for dummies", but can't be too advanced. > > Thanks for your advice, > > -Chuck Hays > lists@chuckhays.net > A personal favorite of mine (I've used two editions of it when teaching Linux classes) is Mark Sobell's "Practical Guide to Linux" or as it is currently titled "A Practical Guide to Red Hat Linux 8". Its a real good intro to command line and GUI. It includes a generic X-Windows chapter and a chapter on KDE and one on GNOME. Most of the book is the same as the original version that used Caldera for its screen caps but in no way should be considered limited to the particular distribution. I have heard good things about Marcel Gagne's "Moving to Linux" but have not read it myself. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drake at math.umn.edu Mon Dec 8 22:47:07 2003 From: drake at math.umn.edu (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Looking for decent linux intro book In-Reply-To: <200312082234.09826.jack@jacku.com> References: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> <200312082234.09826.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <20031209044707.GC16483@math.umn.edu> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Mon Dec 8 23:18:08 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Smoothwall v2 In-Reply-To: <20031209004405.GD2167@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FD50BF9.4050703@comcast.net> <20031209004405.GD2167@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3FD55B10.1090302@comcast.net> And your point is........?? I knew about the v2 release without checking Slashdot, I merely found it amusing that I got the initial download without the manuals included and then went back to check if they had the ISO with the manuals included posted yet and found the message about being "slashdotted". And while there may be a lot of us that know about Slashdot, I'm sure there are a few individuals who do not. Wow, I am really sick of your "holier than thou" attitude Matthew, give it up. Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > I believe that those of us interested in /. content can check for > ourselves. > > >>Apparently, the "get" portion of the site has been "slashdotted". >smile> -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 8 23:49:40 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm no sure about posting this [off topic] Message-ID: <3FD56274.6050902@visi.com> I've been getting to know many of the people who are members of TCLUG. I know this is off topic but I feel I need to tell people. Yesterday December 7th for us, My nephew Jason Wright was killed in Iraq, he was 19 years old. Jason was a member of the 101st Airborne. He was killed while guarding at gas station in Mosul. His family lives in a small town in Michigan, population about 2000. Jason has 4 brothers all younger then himself. Maybe this is part of the grieving process for me, I don't know. I just had to say something. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Mon Dec 8 23:57:16 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Smoothwall v2 In-Reply-To: <3FD55B10.1090302@comcast.net> References: <3FD50BF9.4050703@comcast.net> <20031209004405.GD2167@techmonkeys.org> <3FD55B10.1090302@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031209055716.GH2167@techmonkeys.org> On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 11:18:08PM -0600, Todd Young wrote: > And your point is........?? My point was, there are many ways to get this information, and the information is not necessarily relevant to the list. If I wanted daily updates I would browse freshmeat, watch slashdot, subscribe to smoothwall-announce, or wait for the smoothwall box to tell me the next version was out. The same goes for SCO lawsuit papers, Microsoft imposing fees on use of the FAT filesystem, "How can free software compete with commercial developers?", and "The FREE, 0% APR, Better Sex, No Effort Diet" You're a walking talking slashdot. > Wow, I am really sick of your > "holier than thou" attitude Matthew, give it up. That's Arch Bishop Matthew to you. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Dec 9 00:22:36 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Smoothwall v2 In-Reply-To: <20031209055716.GH2167@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FD50BF9.4050703@comcast.net> <20031209004405.GD2167@techmonkeys.org> <3FD55B10.1090302@comcast.net> <20031209055716.GH2167@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3FD56A2C.1060803@comcast.net> Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was a Linux users group information list. How bad of me to share information about LINUX with the rest of the list members. I guess not everyone can be as perfect....too bad, I guess I'll just continue on with my imperfect ways. Let's see, there are 496 current members and only ONE has complained. I don't always have time to stay abreast of all that is going on the in the Linux world and welcome the brief emails that call attention to significant events within the Linux world. If I already know about an event, I simply delete the email and move on, with no ill-will toward the person who posts the news event. Thank you all for your time and consideration (except ONE person). Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > My point was, there are many ways to get this information, and the information > is not necessarily relevant to the list. If I wanted daily updates I would > browse freshmeat, watch slashdot, subscribe to smoothwall-announce, or > wait for the smoothwall box to tell me the next version was out. > > The same goes for SCO lawsuit papers, Microsoft imposing fees on use of > the FAT filesystem, "How can free software compete with commercial developers?", > and "The FREE, 0% APR, Better Sex, No Effort Diet" > > You're a walking talking slashdot. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From MAnderson at iddx.net Tue Dec 9 07:27:08 2003 From: MAnderson at iddx.net (Matthew R Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm no sure about posting this [off topic] In-Reply-To: <3FD56274.6050902@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031209132705.06C4FF3E6@barquito.iddx.net> I am sorry to hear about your loss. I have friends in Iraq that would be around your nephew's age. There is a lot of soul searching to be done when things like this happen. I'm sure many will tell you, and you may feel yourself, that your nephew died in vain for something without benefit for anyone. But, I do not believe that is the case. And if you turn the volume down on Bush-bashing, America-bashing, and basically *freedom-bashing noise, you'll find out that there are many soft spoken intelligent people that think freedom and *gasp* patriotism is still something worth dying for. Nobody was forced to join the military in its current form. There is always a choice. Your nephew made his choice under his own volition, and while he paid the ultimate price in his tours, do not think that the loss of life is in vain. /m -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Sam MacDonald Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:50 PM To: TC LUG Subject: [TCLUG] I'm no sure about posting this [off topic] I've been getting to know many of the people who are members of TCLUG. I know this is off topic but I feel I need to tell people. Yesterday December 7th for us, My nephew Jason Wright was killed in Iraq, he was 19 years old. Jason was a member of the 101st Airborne. He was killed while guarding at gas station in Mosul. His family lives in a small town in Michigan, population about 2000. Jason has 4 brothers all younger then himself. Maybe this is part of the grieving process for me, I don't know. I just had to say something. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Tue Dec 9 07:42:41 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Smoothwall v2 In-Reply-To: <3FD56A2C.1060803@comcast.net> Message-ID: Thanks for the info, Todd. Seriously. TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net Tue Dec 9 10:08:55 2003 From: Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net (Scott J Julian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm no sure about posting this [off topic] In-Reply-To: <3FD56274.6050902@visi.com> References: <3FD56274.6050902@visi.com> Message-ID: <1070986135.6190.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 23:49, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I've been getting to know many of the people who are members of TCLUG. > > I know this is off topic but I feel I need to tell people. > > Yesterday December 7th for us, My nephew Jason Wright was killed in > Iraq, he was 19 years old. Jason was a member of the 101st Airborne. > He was killed while guarding at gas station in Mosul. > His family lives in a small town in Michigan, population about 2000. > Jason has 4 brothers all younger then himself. > > Maybe this is part of the grieving process for me, I don't know. I just > had to say something. > > Sam. > My sincere condolences Sam, as a former Airborne Infantryman in the U.S.Army I understand the sacrifice that our young men and women are making for this country. When he runs into St. Michael, the Patron Saint of the Airborne I hope he screams a great big HUAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!! There are few things more noble than giving your life in the service of your country, I will pray for him next Memorial Day Sam. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net Tue Dec 9 10:11:06 2003 From: Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net (Scott J Julian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm no sure about posting this [off topic] In-Reply-To: <20031209132705.06C4FF3E6@barquito.iddx.net> References: <20031209132705.06C4FF3E6@barquito.iddx.net> Message-ID: <1070986266.6190.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> VERY well put Matt. On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 07:27, Matthew R Anderson wrote: > I am sorry to hear about your loss. I have friends in Iraq that would be > around your nephew's age. There is a lot of soul searching to be done when > things like this happen. I'm sure many will tell you, and you may feel > yourself, that your nephew died in vain for something without benefit for > anyone. But, I do not believe that is the case. And if you turn the volume > down on Bush-bashing, America-bashing, and basically *freedom-bashing noise, > you'll find out that there are many soft spoken intelligent people that > think freedom and *gasp* patriotism is still something worth dying for. > Nobody was forced to join the military in its current form. There is always > a choice. Your nephew made his choice under his own volition, and while he > paid the ultimate price in his tours, do not think that the loss of life is > in vain. > > /m > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Sam MacDonald > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:50 PM > To: TC LUG > Subject: [TCLUG] I'm no sure about posting this [off topic] > > I've been getting to know many of the people who are members of TCLUG. > > I know this is off topic but I feel I need to tell people. > > Yesterday December 7th for us, My nephew Jason Wright was killed in > Iraq, he was 19 years old. Jason was a member of the 101st Airborne. > He was killed while guarding at gas station in Mosul. > His family lives in a small town in Michigan, population about 2000. > Jason has 4 brothers all younger then himself. > > Maybe this is part of the grieving process for me, I don't know. I just > had to say something. > > Sam. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From MarkCourtney at MarkCourtney.com Mon Dec 8 14:32:14 2003 From: MarkCourtney at MarkCourtney.com (Mark Courtney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Looking for decent linux intro book In-Reply-To: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> References: <1070895903.26975.1.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <16808.12.98.223.34.1070915534.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> I'd recommend almost any O'Reilly book. I haven't come across one yet that I didn't like, save for Oracle In A Nutshell. I would also cast my vote for O'Reilly's Running Linux. Mark Courtney http://www.MarkCourtney.com __ +|oo|+ +|oo|+ || || || || || || _ || _ \\_||_// | [] | | || | / [] \ \______/ > Hello all, > > My father is a fairly advanced windows user, and has a CS degree (albeit > from 1971...), he however has never used linux, and would like to > learn. I am looking for a book that balances server administration and > desktop use both. Does anyone have any favorites? It definitely does > not need to be "linux for dummies", but can't be too advanced. > > Thanks for your advice, > > -Chuck Hays > lists@chuckhays.net > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From MarkCourtney at MarkCourtney.com Mon Dec 8 14:36:36 2003 From: MarkCourtney at MarkCourtney.com (Mark Courtney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SquirrelMail mime/attachment probs Message-ID: <16918.12.98.223.34.1070915796.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> Hello fellow list members. I've tried the SquirrelMail list, but they don't seem to have much to say, so I thought I'd try some place more local. Since I upgraded to SquirrelMail 1.4.2, I haven't been able to view attachments - i.e. html and images. When I try to view the images, they show up just like they would on a web page if a tag was broken. Furthermore, (I find this kinda quirky) if I try to view the same message again, I can not even open it. Instead I get the following message: Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /some-dir/squirrelmail-1.4.2/class/mime/Message.class.php on line 680 If I log out and log back in, I can can view the message again, but the attached images are still broken. If I try to download any attachment, the file that the Web server serves is always 'untitled*.mixed'. After further investigation, I've found that the problem is only happening on some mailboxes - most importantly mine. Can somebody, someone, anybody, anyone please tell me how to remedy this? Any and all input is appreciated. Thanks a ton Mark Courtney http://www.MarkCourtney.com __ +|oo|+ +|oo|+ || || || || || || _ || _ \\_||_// | [] | | || | / [] \ \______/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Tue Dec 9 11:32:31 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution (OFF TOPIC) In-Reply-To: <3FD4D2E3.1040809@visi.com> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> <20031208165811.GA29932@karl> <3FD4D2E3.1040809@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031209173231.GG31058@autonomous.tv> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Tue Dec 9 11:45:09 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Smoothwall v2 In-Reply-To: <20031209055716.GH2167@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FD50BF9.4050703@comcast.net> <20031209004405.GD2167@techmonkeys.org> <3FD55B10.1090302@comcast.net> <20031209055716.GH2167@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031209174509.GH31058@autonomous.tv> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Tue Dec 9 12:27:01 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution (OFF TOPIC) In-Reply-To: <20031209173231.GG31058@autonomous.tv> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> <20031208165811.GA29932@karl> <3FD4D2E3.1040809@visi.com> <20031209173231.GG31058@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20031209182701.GA9944@mail.el-swifto.com> On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 11:32:31AM -0600, Spencer Butler wrote: > On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 01:37:07PM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > >Speaking of "crapware" I went looking for software to convert > >fractions to decimals yesterday. > >My daughter is starting Algebra this year, I need to correct her > >answers not learn algebra from scratch again, the review is great! > Look no further, google will do all this and more. if you type: "1/4 > in decimal" (no quotes) google will happily give you the correct > answer. It also understands binary, hex, and a slew of others. It > will even add binary/hex for you. use 0b for binary and 0x for hex > representation. > > example > 0xFF in decimal > 0b0110 in hex > 8092 in binary > 0xFF + 0xEE > > Dink around with it, the google calculater is quite fascinating. > Heh. http://www.google.com/search?q=1+lightyear+in+inches -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Tue Dec 9 12:32:31 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] networking can't make up it's mind... Message-ID: Mandrake9.1 on a dell optiplex gx150. Network worked fine yesterday, today I'm getting dhcp requests timed out. I jump though the hoops, set stuff manually using the last know settings - nothing works... then I unplug the cable, and plug in a new cable and run it to a different port on my hub - I do a /etc/init.d/network stop and then a /etc/ inint.d/network start - everything comes up just fine! So I go back to the old cable and hub port - do the stop / start and everything is STILL fine... what gives? Does the act of unplugging and plugging in a cable to the NIC reset something? I hate not knowing how a problem was solved!!! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 9 13:00:43 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] networking can't make up it's mind... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FD61BDB.8040600@visi.com> Is the "hub" a switch or a hub? I have an OLD Asante switch but it only has 32k of ram. Once in a while the memory gets borked up, all the lights start flashing. I have to power cycle it to make my network function again. Just a thought. Sam. Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > > Mandrake9.1 on a dell optiplex gx150. > > > > Network worked fine yesterday, today I'm getting dhcp requests timed out. > > > > I jump though the hoops, set stuff manually using the last know > settings - nothing works... > > > > then I unplug the cable, and plug in a new cable and run it to a > different port on my hub - I do a /etc/init.d/network stop and then a > /etc/ > inint.d/network start - everything comes up just fine! > > > > So I go back to the old cable and hub port - do the stop / start and > everything is STILL fine... > > > > what gives? Does the act of unplugging and plugging in a cable to the > NIC reset something? > > > > I hate not knowing how a problem was solved!!! > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Tue Dec 9 13:18:45 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SquirrelMail mime/attachment probs In-Reply-To: <16918.12.98.223.34.1070915796.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> References: <16918.12.98.223.34.1070915796.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> Message-ID: <54705.67.107.38.35.1070997525.squirrel@dccmn.com> This is a security feature of SquirrelMail. By displaying a uniquely coded image URL from a spam, the spammer has been informed you that you received and are looking at their mail. Yahoo just added this feature to their mail, but at least there is a button to redisplay the e-mail with images. There is a plug-in that disables this feature. As far as the fatal error, no clue. Mark Courtney said: > Hello fellow list members. I've tried the SquirrelMail list, but > they don't seem to have much to say, so I thought I'd try some > place more local. > > Since I upgraded to SquirrelMail 1.4.2, I haven't been able to view > attachments - i.e. html and images. When I try to view the images, they > show up just like they would on a web page if a > tag was broken. > > Furthermore, (I find this kinda quirky) if I try to view the same > message again, I can not even open it. Instead I get the following > message: > > Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in > /some-dir/squirrelmail-1.4.2/class/mime/Message.class.php on line 680 > > If I log out and log back in, I can can view the message again, but the > attached images are still broken. > > If I try to download any attachment, the file that the Web server serves > is always 'untitled*.mixed'. > > After further investigation, I've found that the problem is only > happening on some mailboxes - most importantly mine. > > Can somebody, someone, anybody, anyone please tell me how to remedy > this? > > Any and all input is appreciated. > > Thanks a ton > > > > Mark Courtney > > http://www.MarkCourtney.com > > __ > +|oo|+ > +|oo|+ > || > || > || > || > || > || > _ || _ > \\_||_// > | [] | > | || | > / [] \ > \______/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Tue Dec 9 13:16:59 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] networking can't make up it's mind... In-Reply-To: <3FD61BDB.8040600@visi.com> References: <3FD61BDB.8040600@visi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 13:00:43 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Is the "hub" a switch or a hub? plain old netgear hub..... > > I have an OLD Asante switch but it only has 32k of ram. Once in a while > the memory gets borked up, all the lights start flashing. I have to > power cycle it to make my network function again. Just a thought. > > Sam. > > Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > >> >> Mandrake9.1 on a dell optiplex gx150. >> >> >> >> Network worked fine yesterday, today I'm getting dhcp requests timed >> out. >> >> >> >> I jump though the hoops, set stuff manually using the last know >> settings - nothing works... >> >> >> >> then I unplug the cable, and plug in a new cable and run it to a >> different port on my hub - I do a /etc/init.d/network stop and then a >> /etc/ >> inint.d/network start - everything comes up just fine! >> >> >> >> So I go back to the old cable and hub port - do the stop / start and >> everything is STILL fine... >> >> >> >> what gives? Does the act of unplugging and plugging in a cable to the >> NIC reset something? >> >> >> >> I hate not knowing how a problem was solved!!! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bgilbertson at stonel.com Tue Dec 9 13:33:27 2003 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] networking can't make up it's mind... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FD62387.3000305@stonel.com> Ifconfig may give some useful info. Also can use one command: /etc/init.d/network restart Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > > Mandrake9.1 on a dell optiplex gx150. > > > > Network worked fine yesterday, today I'm getting dhcp requests timed out. > > > > I jump though the hoops, set stuff manually using the last know settings > - nothing works... > > > > then I unplug the cable, and plug in a new cable and run it to a > different port on my hub - I do a /etc/init.d/network stop and then a /etc/ > inint.d/network start - everything comes up just fine! > > > > So I go back to the old cable and hub port - do the stop / start and > everything is STILL fine... > > > > what gives? Does the act of unplugging and plugging in a cable to the > NIC reset something? > > > > I hate not knowing how a problem was solved!!! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 9 13:39:31 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] networking can't make up it's mind... In-Reply-To: <3FD62387.3000305@stonel.com> References: <3FD62387.3000305@stonel.com> Message-ID: <3FD624F3.3040207@visi.com> or put the whole line in a text file named netrestart in your home directory. Then ./netrestart (that would be 'dotslash'netrestart) Sam. Bob Gilbertson wrote: > Ifconfig may give some useful info. > > Also can use one command: > /etc/init.d/network restart > > Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > >> >> Mandrake9.1 on a dell optiplex gx150. >> >> >> >> Network worked fine yesterday, today I'm getting dhcp requests timed >> out. >> >> >> >> I jump though the hoops, set stuff manually using the last know >> settings - nothing works... >> >> >> >> then I unplug the cable, and plug in a new cable and run it to a >> different port on my hub - I do a /etc/init.d/network stop and then a >> /etc/ >> inint.d/network start - everything comes up just fine! >> >> >> >> So I go back to the old cable and hub port - do the stop / start and >> everything is STILL fine... >> >> >> >> what gives? Does the act of unplugging and plugging in a cable to >> the NIC reset something? >> >> >> >> I hate not knowing how a problem was solved!!! > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Tue Dec 9 14:43:30 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] san presentation Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB912@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Tue Dec 9 17:05:22 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution (OFF TOPIC) In-Reply-To: <20031209173231.GG31058@autonomous.tv> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> <20031208165811.GA29932@karl> <3FD4D2E3.1040809@visi.com> <20031209173231.GG31058@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20031209230522.GA26000@therub.org> On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 11:32:31AM -0600, Spencer Butler wrote: > Dink around with it, the google calculater is quite fascinating. Interesting - I havn't used google as a calculater, but I have noticed that google has become my spell checker of choice :) dan > > /me licks google > -- > Linux Administrator || Technology Specialist || Wifi Engineer > http://autonomous.tv/~spencer/resume/ || spencer@autonomous.tv > Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Tue Dec 9 19:32:45 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] san presentation In-Reply-To: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB912@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB912@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Message-ID: <20031210013245.GA11907@refried.org> On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 02:43:30PM -0600, Neigebauer, Ben wrote: > Did the SAN presentation happen? Nope, you didn't miss it. I'm shooting to get it well organized for a February or March meeting. Any help would be appreciated. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Tue Dec 9 22:58:05 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] networking can't make up it's mind... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1071032285.13283.5.camel@lotsa> Perhaps something wasn't plugged in right, like crooked. I've had weird things happen when the little wires inside of the female rj45 connector bend over and touch the other ones. I've had strange things happen with bent monitor connector pins too, more than once. Just a thought. - Tom On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 12:32, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Mandrake9.1 on a dell optiplex gx150. > > > > Network worked fine yesterday, today I'm getting dhcp requests timed out. > > > > I jump though the hoops, set stuff manually using the last know settings - > nothing works... > > > > then I unplug the cable, and plug in a new cable and run it to a different > port on my hub - I do a /etc/init.d/network stop and then a /etc/ > inint.d/network start - everything comes up just fine! > > > > So I go back to the old cable and hub port - do the stop / start and > everything is STILL fine... > > > > what gives? Does the act of unplugging and plugging in a cable to the NIC > reset something? > > > > I hate not knowing how a problem was solved!!! > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wdradomski at juno.com Tue Dec 9 23:30:33 2003 From: wdradomski at juno.com (Wm. D Radomski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm no sure about posting this [off topic] Message-ID: <20031209.233041.-356755.0.wdradomski@juno.com> Sam, I am a newbie lurker, but also a vet. From what I have seen so far, this list is a good one to both get sh** from and to share grief with. Please accept my condolences. I share Matt"s sentiments. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 9 23:54:11 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] networking can't make up it's mind... In-Reply-To: <1071032285.13283.5.camel@lotsa> References: <1071032285.13283.5.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <3FD6B503.6010007@visi.com> GREMLINS. Tom Penney wrote: >Perhaps something wasn't plugged in right, like crooked. I've had weird >things happen when the little wires inside of the female rj45 connector >bend over and touch the other ones. I've had strange things happen with >bent monitor connector pins too, more than once. Just a thought. > >- Tom > >On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 12:32, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > > >>Mandrake9.1 on a dell optiplex gx150. >> >> >> >>Network worked fine yesterday, today I'm getting dhcp requests timed out. >> >> >> >>I jump though the hoops, set stuff manually using the last know settings - >>nothing works... >> >> >> >>then I unplug the cable, and plug in a new cable and run it to a different >>port on my hub - I do a /etc/init.d/network stop and then a /etc/ >>inint.d/network start - everything comes up just fine! >> >> >> >>So I go back to the old cable and hub port - do the stop / start and >>everything is STILL fine... >> >> >> >>what gives? Does the act of unplugging and plugging in a cable to the NIC >>reset something? >> >> >> >>I hate not knowing how a problem was solved!!! >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wdradomski at juno.com Wed Dec 10 00:07:09 2003 From: wdradomski at juno.com (Wm. D Radomski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] networking can't make up it's mind... Message-ID: <20031210.000718.-356755.1.wdradomski@juno.com> Yeah, I gottta back Tom here. I know little yet about software, but my hardware installation instincts say that you may have fixed your problem with a thing called "JFM" (Just F** Magic). It most often has to do with small hardware wiggles that you can only document with a video diary of all physical adjustments. Best to learn to accept this and move on. On 09 Dec 2003 22:58:05 -0600 Tom Penney writes: > Perhaps something wasn't plugged in right, like crooked. I've had > weird > things happen when the little wires inside of the female rj45 > connector > bend over and touch the other ones. I've had strange things happen > with > bent monitor connector pins too, more than once. Just a thought. > > - Tom > > On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 12:32, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > > Mandrake9.1 on a dell optiplex gx150. > > > > > > > > Network worked fine yesterday, today I'm getting dhcp requests > timed out. > > > > > > > > I jump though the hoops, set stuff manually using the last know > settings - > > nothing works... > > > > > > > > then I unplug the cable, and plug in a new cable and run it to a > different > > port on my hub - I do a /etc/init.d/network stop and then a /etc/ > > inint.d/network start - everything comes up just fine! > > > > > > > > So I go back to the old cable and hub port - do the stop / start > and > > everything is STILL fine... > > > > > > > > what gives? Does the act of unplugging and plugging in a cable to > the NIC > > reset something? > > > > > > > > I hate not knowing how a problem was solved!!! > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- > Tom Penney > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Wed Dec 10 05:12:17 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Business software recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20031208030048.L13371@joelschneider.net> References: <20031207213619.29b48bf8.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031208030048.L13371@joelschneider.net> Message-ID: <20031210051217.001fcff5.sfertch@real-time.com> On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 03:00:48 -0600 Joel Schneider wrote: > Commercial: > http://www.appgen.com/ > (caveat: > http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/10/24/1518230) > Interesting.... So, if they're out of business who's selling thier software? Don't recall seeing thier ad in LJ recently, but I've still seen it in other places. David, understandable on the Quickbooks mention. Somet things open source is very good at, others.... We'll see. Thanks both for the recommendations. Apologies on the late reply, been a little busy. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Dec 10 07:40:53 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VNC Server server - better option than stock way Message-ID: List, Has anyone seen this before: http://trilug.org/~chrish/blog.php?wl_mode=more&wl_eid=130 I tried it and it works and I wanted to know if anyone else has done this sort of thing, but added 'stunnel' or something similar to the mix. This is much nicer than spawning desktops for everyone who needs one at boot. Troy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Wed Dec 10 09:18:31 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VNC Server server - better option than stock way In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031210091346.V71406@unix18.sihope.com> Took me a minute to figure out the "novelty" here...then I slapped 'mah 'fro and remembered that Windows can't X-query :) If you want to add some security to VNC, see this page: http://www.uk.research.att.com/archive/vnc/sshvnc.html Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > List, > > Has anyone seen this before: > > http://trilug.org/~chrish/blog.php?wl_mode=more&wl_eid=130 > > I tried it and it works and I wanted to know if anyone else > has done this sort of thing, but added 'stunnel' or something > similar to the mix. > > This is much nicer than spawning desktops for everyone who > needs one at boot. > > Troy > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Mon Dec 8 23:28:14 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <20031208165811.GA29932@karl> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> <20031208165811.GA29932@karl> Message-ID: <1070947693.10777.40.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Tue Dec 9 01:56:10 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! In-Reply-To: <20031202235343.C19459@real-time.com> References: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> <20031202235343.C19459@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1070956570.10777.104.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Tue Dec 9 00:03:46 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] moving users to new server In-Reply-To: <002501c3bd92$cc362040$4dae6742@DELL2> References: <002501c3bd92$cc362040$4dae6742@DELL2> Message-ID: <1070949826.10777.74.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Tue Dec 9 04:00:21 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <3FCF92DB.7090809@comcast.net> References: <200312041711.hB4HBTC20920@crusader.real-time.com> <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3FCF92DB.7090809@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1070964021.10777.128.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Wed Dec 10 09:39:13 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VNC Server server - better option than stock way In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hmm, I tried this, but vnc just won't start on boot for me. That's been on my todo list for a while, to get VNC starting on boot, but every time I try it doesn't seem to work. (though I'm also struggling with getting my second hard drive to mount on boot, so...) Matt > List, > > Has anyone seen this before: > > http://trilug.org/~chrish/blog.php?wl_mode=more&wl_eid=130 > > I tried it and it works and I wanted to know if anyone else > has done this sort of thing, but added 'stunnel' or something > similar to the mix. > > This is much nicer than spawning desktops for everyone who > needs one at boot. > > Troy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Tue Dec 9 03:45:41 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Portable MP3/Ogg player In-Reply-To: <20031204190432.GA18878@refried.org> References: <20031201164816.GF1173@fandre.com> <20031204190432.GA18878@refried.org> Message-ID: <1070963141.10777.123.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Wed Dec 10 09:20:57 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm no sure about posting this [off topic] In-Reply-To: <3FD56274.6050902@visi.com> References: <3FD56274.6050902@visi.com> Message-ID: <1071069657.13283.28.camel@lotsa> Thanks for posting this Sam. We all have to remember the price we pay for the things we do as a country. There is no price greater than the loss of a life. We here about this stuff on the news but it means more when it hits close to home. I can't pretend to know how you and your family feel but your post has made this hit a closer to home for me and to realize the price we are paying. Matt put it very well. Your nephews life will not have been given in vain. He will be remembered. - Tom On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 23:49, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I've been getting to know many of the people who are members of TCLUG. > > I know this is off topic but I feel I need to tell people. > > Yesterday December 7th for us, My nephew Jason Wright was killed in > Iraq, he was 19 years old. Jason was a member of the 101st Airborne. > He was killed while guarding at gas station in Mosul. > His family lives in a small town in Michigan, population about 2000. > Jason has 4 brothers all younger then himself. > > Maybe this is part of the grieving process for me, I don't know. I just > had to say something. > > Sam. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Wed Dec 10 09:51:30 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB914@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> I still have a couple of 32MB EDO DIMMS, if anyone needs them. I can't imagine what they would be good for anymore.... Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 -----Original Message----- From: Callum Lerwick [mailto:seg@haxxed.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 4:00 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] > DIMMs on the other hand can be PC66, PC100, or > PC133 Note, there _were_ EDO DIMMS. They're extremely rare and you're highly unlikely to ever see them. I know they exist, a friend has a 64mb stick... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Dec 10 10:09:41 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VNC Server server - better option than stock way Message-ID: Matt, Which distribution are you using? Troy >>> "Matt Murphy" 12/10/03 09:39AM >>> Hmm, I tried this, but vnc just won't start on boot for me. That's been on my todo list for a while, to get VNC starting on boot, but every time I try it doesn't seem to work. (though I'm also struggling with getting my second hard drive to mount on boot, so...) > http://trilug.org/~chrish/blog.php?wl_mode=more&wl_eid=130 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Dec 10 10:07:29 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VNC Server server - better option than stock way Message-ID: Adam, I do that sometimes, but I was thinking more of ssl wrapping the http/java vnc thing on port 5800, if that is possible. Less setup on client and server, to my way of thinking. I'll see what I can do... Troy >>> adamm@sihope.com 12/10/03 09:18AM >>> Took me a minute to figure out the "novelty" here...then I slapped 'mah 'fro and remembered that Windows can't X-query :) If you want to add some security to VNC, see this page: http://www.uk.research.att.com/archive/vnc/sshvnc.html On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Has anyone seen this before: > http://trilug.org/~chrish/blog.php?wl_mode=more&wl_eid=130 > I tried it and it works and I wanted to know if anyone else > has done this sort of thing, but added 'stunnel' or something > similar to the mix. > This is much nicer than spawning desktops for everyone who > needs one at boot. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From newton at enel.ucalgary.ca Wed Dec 10 11:05:22 2003 From: newton at enel.ucalgary.ca (Charles Newton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Unlocking T616 phone Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tmarble at info9.net Wed Dec 10 12:34:37 2003 From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian help with signatures Message-ID: <3FD7673D.4090403@info9.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Wed Dec 10 12:32:46 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] code reuse vs code interdependency Message-ID: <20031210183246.GA19567@refried.org> On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 03:45:41AM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > I'm working on switching to abcde because recent builds of grip on > > Debian unstable depend on all the Gnome libraries. I don't use Gnome or > > KDE so I try not to have any of their supporting libraries installed. > > Funny, one of the goals of GNOME is to provide a structure for code > re-use and prevent the constant re-inventing of the wheel thats so > prevalent in the unix world. Its exactly this attitude that kept Linux > in the back room for so long. True, KDE and GNOME are trying hard to reuse as much code as possible. But in their quest they create lots of interdependencies. Library A needs library B which in some cases needs library C, etc. The problem is that Application X uses a function P out of library A. Function P doesn't need anything in library B. Packaging comes along and creates dependencies at the library level. So to install application X I need to install libraries A, B, and C. I like the small is beautiful approach. If I don't need a library I don't want it installed. Because of the way that GNOME applications pull in libraries for features that I probably won't use, I decided not to use it. I get a smaller OS and less security worries. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tmarble at info9.net Wed Dec 10 14:44:36 2003 From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian help with signatures In-Reply-To: <3FD7673D.4090403@info9.net> References: <3FD7673D.4090403@info9.net> Message-ID: <3FD785B4.5060200@info9.net> (resend w/o signature) > I'm really a big fan of debian, but it's kind of tough navigating > the best "get well" plan following the compromise with the relatively > little amount of information available. DWN yesterday was of some help, > but > still doesn't help me get around my current "signature" related concerns. > > Since I know some of you are seasoned debian users I'm hoping you can > point me in the right direction. > > My problem is that I'm trying to update the system (with dselect) and many > package updates fail with: > > Authenticating /var/cache/apt/archives/debconf-utils_1.3.22_all.deb ... > debsig: Origin Signature check failed. This deb might not be signed. > dpkg: error processing > /var/cache/apt/archives/debconf-utils_1.3.22_all.deb (--unpack): > Verification on package > /var/cache/apt/archives/debconf-utils_1.3.22_all.deb failed! > > So I know this problem is due to dselect calling 'dpkg --unpack' which > in turn > calls 'debsig-verify' which is failing. The documentation on debsig verify > gives some examples, but it's not clear to me what the 'right' thing to > do is.... > Should I: > 1. Get and verify current keys (e.g. debian-debsig.gpg and > debian-keyring.gpg) > (tips on doing this appreciated) > 2. Should I put the keys in... > /usr/share/debsig/keyrings/Debian/debian-keyring.gpg > (I'm not clear on the last dir component name) > 3. Should I use (or modify) > /usr/share/doc/debsig-verify/examples/generic.pol > and put it in > /etc/debsig/policies/Debian/debian.pol > 4. Assuming I get a good set of keys and policies in place... what's the > best > way to deal with packages that are simply not signed? > Would you recommend 'dpkg --force-bad-verify --unpack > debconf-utils_1.3.22_all.deb'? > Should I wait until all the core packages get signed? > 5. Then (according wiggy.net which seems to be down) run debsums? > http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:lBvF6QZNaV4J:www.wiggy.net/debian/developer-securing/+developer+debian+debsums+cleanup+info&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 > > 6. Other recommendations (continue checking for rootkits, use fam, other > IDS)? > > Thanks! > > --Tom _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Dec 10 14:44:41 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Unlocking T616 phone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031210204441.GT2167@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 10:05:22AM -0700, Charles Newton wrote: > I read a thread in the internet regarding this issue ? were you able to > solve it? I need the NCK number for the Sony T616 locked on the AT&T > network, could you help me? Tsk tsk, if you had gone with T-Mobile they would have unlocked it for you. =) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Wed Dec 10 15:16:17 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VNC Server server - better option than stock way Message-ID: > Matt, > > Which distribution are you using? Redhat 9 - n00b linux. =] I see a solution from the vnc list involving starting it from an init.d script, but it's got a very different command listed in its' example than is in my script, so I don't want to mess with it. I've got it listed in the nice little "services" gui tool in redhat to start on boot, but it just doesn't, and I don't really know why. I've got a .vnc folder/password defined for my root user and myself, and I can run it fine manually for both, but doesn't seem to work at startup. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Wed Dec 10 17:37:01 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Portable MP3/Ogg player In-Reply-To: References: <20031201164816.GF1173@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031210233701.GA20988@karl> I used a perl script, "rip" by Gregory Smethells to rip over 200 CD's. This can be a front end to many of the lower level ripping tools. Its nice because it's automated, pop in a disk, run it, and some time later it ejects the tray when it is done. I know little about tags, but I arranged "rip" to put the mp3s on disk like this: Ripped all the CD's at 128kbs, which I can't tell the diff from the real thing. To do a blind study, reverse a mp3 back to wav, then burn that on to a CD along side the original wav. Do this for several songs. Then pop the CD in your stereo, press random play, listen, guess, then look at the track number.. Later on I noticed that a problem with this organization is that I lost the track# information, if I played an album, it would not be in the original order, which is annoying. I also lost the track time information. Later I started working on my own Web juke box, made from perl,mysql apache,mp321, and scanning the CD album art. I ended up having to put all my CD's back in, and collect the "magic number" that the CDDA databases work off from. Then I made some perl routines to match up the ripped songs/locations so I could add to the data base all the CDDA database info that was missing(track #, proper names,..). I added the associated magic number too to the mysql table as well. I have two sets of burned CD's which hold my collection. I'll probably burn them to DVD disks some time, and it would make sense to add tags, and store MD5 check files. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Wed Dec 10 17:58:05 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Order of Execution In-Reply-To: <1070947693.10777.40.camel@bigtime> References: <3FD16BAC.7030906@visi.com> <3FD33BF1.4070105@visi.com> <200312071922.hB7JMmw09529@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312071551.36463.jack@jacku.com> <3FD418DF.5010507@visi.com> <20031208165811.GA29932@karl> <1070947693.10777.40.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <20031210235805.GB20988@karl> On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 11:28:14PM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > But not symlinks, symlinks is just a semi-useful trick that some > > file systems support. I doubt that a basic unix system requires > > them. > > Actually, soft links are pretty vital to the functioning of an average > Linux system. Take a look in /lib or /usr/lib, they're heavily used in > shared library versioning. Sure, you could make a system that gets by > without them, but a standard distribution wouldn't work without them. Yes, I figured I was off base on this. I guess it is used in a number of places that seem to make sense: /dev/mouse -> /dev/psaux /var/log -> /tmp/log (on an embedded system) I'm not sure I appreciate the beauty of all the symlinks in /lib or /usr/lib. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Dec 10 20:07:02 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <1070964021.10777.128.camel@bigtime> References: <200312041711.hB4HBTC20920@crusader.real-time.com> <16335.35136.356222.155615@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3FCF92DB.7090809@comcast.net> <1070964021.10777.128.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <3FD7D146.3090100@visi.com> UM, not to be a pain but EDO DIMMS are not that rare, they were used in servers. The Compaq Proliant line with Pentium Pro processors us EDO ECC DIMMS. They are cheep now but they were very expensive in their day. I sort of miss the days of the 30 pin SIMM they were small, EXPENSIVE but small. For 16 MB of RAM 30 pin SIMM's I spent about $850.00. I just had to run NT 3.1 then NT 3.5, 3.51. Sam. Callum Lerwick wrote: >> DIMMs on the other hand can be PC66, PC100, or >>PC133 >> >> > >Note, there _were_ EDO DIMMS. They're extremely rare and you're highly >unlikely to ever see them. I know they exist, a friend has a 64mb >stick... > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Dec 10 20:18:16 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! In-Reply-To: <1070956570.10777.104.camel@bigtime> References: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> <20031202235343.C19459@real-time.com> <1070956570.10777.104.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <3FD7D3E8.4090207@visi.com> I had an Uncle, I only remember his last name was Ford (really), no relationship. He was a VP with Ford Motor Company in the late 60's early 70's He had two 4 door Continentals. I remember him playing golf and the whole foursome putting their clubs in the trunk! You could have played foot ball in the trunk. My only regret is I didn't have a car like that in high school. BIG back seat :-D Sam. Callum Lerwick wrote: >> Do any of these cars have Linux in them? >> >> > >Err, someday it will. ;P As it is, my Mark VI has three embedded >microcontrollers as it is: the engine computer, a microcontroller for >the "Message Center" (vacuum-fluorescent all digital dash), and a >microcontroller dedicated to the keyless entry system. Must have been >expensive in 1981... (apparently sticker price was $21k >http://www.geocities.com/fivelincolns/80hist.html) > >Now if only winter would end so I can work on it... > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Wed Dec 10 22:24:24 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] code reuse vs code interdependency In-Reply-To: <20031210183246.GA19567@refried.org> References: <20031210183246.GA19567@refried.org> Message-ID: <20031211042424.GH28031@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Wed Dec 10 22:25:24 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian help with signatures In-Reply-To: <3FD785B4.5060200@info9.net> References: <3FD7673D.4090403@info9.net> <3FD785B4.5060200@info9.net> Message-ID: <20031211042524.GI28031@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel at joelschneider.net Thu Dec 11 02:15:56 2003 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Portable MP3/Ogg player In-Reply-To: <20031204143719.GA8012@fandre.com>; from clay@fandre.com on Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 08:37:19AM -0600 References: <20031201164816.GF1173@fandre.com> <20031204143719.GA8012@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031211021556.A26687@joelschneider.net> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 08:37:19AM -0600, Clay Fandre wrote: > I decided to go with the iRiver iFP-390T w/ 256Megs. Thanks for pointing out there's more than one player with Ogg support available now. Here's a page from the xiph wiki that may be worth bookmarking: http://wiki.xiph.org/VorbisHardware (now torn between neuros and rio karma ..) -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net Linux makes computing fun again. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Dec 11 08:37:08 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Portable MP3/Ogg player In-Reply-To: <20031211021556.A26687@joelschneider.net> References: <20031201164816.GF1173@fandre.com> <20031204143719.GA8012@fandre.com> <20031211021556.A26687@joelschneider.net> Message-ID: <20031211143707.GA4027@fandre.com> On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Joel Schneider wrote: > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 08:37:19AM -0600, Clay Fandre wrote: > > I decided to go with the iRiver iFP-390T w/ 256Megs. > > Thanks for pointing out there's more than one player with Ogg support > available now. > > Here's a page from the xiph wiki that may be worth bookmarking: > > http://wiki.xiph.org/VorbisHardware > > (now torn between neuros and rio karma ..) I did just see the iRiver iGP-100 at Bestbuy for $199 after mail-in rebates. It's supports Ogg out of the box. http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/iGP-100.asp I was tempted to take my iFP-390T back and get this, but I decided not to because the iFP-390T was so much smaller. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Thu Dec 11 09:15:30 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VNC Server server - better option than stock way In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Redhat 9 - n00b linux. =] So, I take it nobody really knows what's wrong? Everything I can find on how to get vnc to run on startup seems to be dated, meant for solaris, or just not work for no apparent reason. This is the kind of thing that reminds me that I'm a total linux idiot, and it's frustrating to feel like an idiot after years of work in IT. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Dec 11 09:56:29 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VNC Server server - better option than stock way References: Message-ID: <3FD893AD.6080103@structural-wood.com> Matt Murphy wrote: >> Redhat 9 - n00b linux. =] > > > So, I take it nobody really knows what's wrong? Everything I can find on how to get vnc to run on startup seems to be dated, meant for solaris, or just not work for no apparent reason. > > This is the kind of thing that reminds me that I'm a total linux idiot, and it's frustrating to feel like an idiot after years of work in IT. > > Matt > To start services on boot on redhat, create a script in /etc/init.d. Make sure it can handle the arguments stop, start, and optionally restart and status. At the top of the script, add some comments that look like this: # Version: 1.3 # # chkconfig: - 72 28 # description: Runs the automount daemon that mounts devices and NFS hosts \ # on demand. # processname: amd # config: /etc/amd.conf You can then turn the service on and off with chkconfig. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Dec 11 10:01:03 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VNC Server server - better option than stock way Message-ID: Matt, Sorry for taking so long. Check out the file: /etc/sysconfig/vncservers and add the users you want to the bottom in the format explained in the file: VNCSERVERS="1:usernameA 2:usernameB 3:usernameC" Make sure you read the file first, it has some warnings. When you're done, restart the 'vncserver': service vncserver restart and maybe add it to the list of services that start up at boot: chkconfig --level 35 vncserver on You can connect using: vncviewer vnchostname:1 replacing '1' with the number in the configuration file that corresponds with the user desktop you wish to connect to. I recommend not making a desktop for 'root': this is not a secure service, but that would be tempting fate too far. Also, keep in mind this service (in RHL9) starts up desktops for every user you add into the configuration file. That can suck up a few resources. Thats another reason to like the 'xinetd' vnc setup in the link I sent previously. BTW, I don't think you're an idiot. This is not a 'well documented' service (at least I have not been able to find it *shrug*). I just looked in '/etc/init.d/' for a vnc related startup file, and found '/etc/init.d/vncserver', which lead me to '/etc/sysconfig/vncservers'. Good luck, Troy >>> "Matt Murphy" 12/11/03 09:15AM >>> > Redhat 9 - n00b linux. =] So, I take it nobody really knows what's wrong? Everything I can find on how to get vnc to run on startup seems to be dated, meant for solaris, or just not work for no apparent reason. This is the kind of thing that reminds me that I'm a total linux idiot, and it's frustrating to feel like an idiot after years of work in IT. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Thu Dec 11 09:59:37 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VNC Server server - better option than stock way In-Reply-To: <3FD893AD.6080103@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: > To start services on boot on redhat, create a script in /etc/init.d. > Make sure it can handle the arguments stop, start, and optionally > restart and status. I have one! It's installed from the factory! It doesn't do anything! It's really pissing me off, as far as I can tell it's set up correctly. There's no error messages. When I try to start from this script manually (after boot) it returns that it ran ok, but I can't connect. When I run "vncserver" from a terminal screen after logging in locally it works fine. Here's a copy of the script: #!/bin/bash # # chkconfig: - 91 35 # description: Starts and stops vncserver. \ # used to provide remote X administration services. # Source function library. . /etc/init.d/functions # Source networking configuration. . /etc/sysconfig/network # Check that networking is up. [ ${NETWORKING} = "no" ] && exit 0 VNCSERVERS="" [ -f /etc/sysconfig/vncservers ] && . /etc/sysconfig/vncservers prog=$"VNC server" start() { echo -n $"Starting $prog: " ulimit -S -c 0 >/dev/null 2>&1 RETVAL=0 for display in ${VNCSERVERS} do echo -n "${display} " unset BASH_ENV ENV initlog $INITLOG_ARGS -c \ "su ${display##*:} -c \"cd ~${display##*:} && [ -f .vnc/passwd ] && vncserver :${display%%:*}\"" RETVAL=$? [ "$RETVAL" -ne 0 ] && break done [ "$RETVAL" -eq 0 ] && success $"vncserver startup" || \ failure $"vncserver start" echo [ "$RETVAL" -eq 0 ] && touch /var/lock/subsys/vncserver } stop() { echo -n $"Shutting down $prog: " for display in ${VNCSERVERS} do echo -n "${display} " unset BASH_ENV ENV initlog $INITLOG_ARGS -c \ "su ${display##*:} -c \"vncserver -kill :${display%%:*}\" >/dev/null 2>&1" done RETVAL=$? [ "$RETVAL" -eq 0 ] && success $"vncserver shutdown" || \ failure $"vncserver shutdown" echo [ "$RETVAL" -eq 0 ] && rm -f /var/lock/subsys/vncserver } # See how we were called. case "$1" in start) start ;; stop) stop ;; restart|reload) stop start ;; condrestart) if [ -f /var/lock/subsys/vncserver ]; then stop start fi ;; status) status Xvnc ;; *) echo $"Usage: $0 {start|stop|restart|condrestart|status}" exit 1 esac _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Thu Dec 11 10:16:34 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] server replication Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FAD6@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I am setting up a backup for my mail server and would like to keep it synchronized with the main one. Basically to save me from having to recreate the accounts on the secondary server I would like to just replicate everything from the primary except the IP and hostname. I know rsync would be an option but I would like some think that could sync in both directions similar to the palm hotsync, in case I have to use the secondary for a while and want to quickly make the changes move over to primary..... Does anyone know of any utilities that would do this? Dan Lansing _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Dec 11 10:19:07 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Review) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Review Message-ID: <200312111619.hBBGJ7i22286@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Review Category: ISPs Subject: Real -Time Though I have not used Real-Time for ISP, yet, I just love their pro-active approach. Text from an e-mail below. "There is a backhoe digging on the side of our office today (12/10/2003) While we don't expect any issues, you never know when an accident will happen. I just want to keep everyone informed on any issue that could effect their Internet connectivity. I'll post here again when the trenching is complete." http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/reviews/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tech at ghalaintl.com Thu Dec 11 10:31:59 2003 From: tech at ghalaintl.com (Bob De Mars) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ftp question Message-ID: <3FD89BFF.3070407@ghalaintl.com> Hello, and a good day to you all. I have a questions about using the ftp command from a shell. Is their a way to download an entire directory from a ftp server using just one command? ie: When I download all the contents of a ftp directory, I have been using the command: mget * this works fine, but I have to answer yes to each file before I can download it. is there a command other than mget, or a switch I can use with mget to basicly tell it to "download all"??? Thanks, Bob -- Ghala International, Inc. 1510 East Cliff Road Burnsville, MN 55337 T: 952-746-6770 F: 952-746-6775 www.ghalaintl.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mteff at frontiernet.net Thu Dec 11 10:41:04 2003 From: mteff at frontiernet.net (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ftp question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, Prompt It will turn prompting on or off. HTH -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Bob De Mars Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:32 AM To: Twin Cities L U G Subject: [TCLUG] ftp question Hello, and a good day to you all. I have a questions about using the ftp command from a shell. Is their a way to download an entire directory from a ftp server using just one command? ie: When I download all the contents of a ftp directory, I have been using the command: mget * this works fine, but I have to answer yes to each file before I can download it. is there a command other than mget, or a switch I can use with mget to basicly tell it to "download all"??? Thanks, Bob -- Ghala International, Inc. 1510 East Cliff Road Burnsville, MN 55337 T: 952-746-6770 F: 952-746-6775 www.ghalaintl.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sos at zjod.net Thu Dec 11 10:50:56 2003 From: sos at zjod.net (Steve Siegfried) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] server replication In-Reply-To: from "Lansing, Dan" at Dec 11, 2003 10:16:34 AM Message-ID: <200312111650.hBBGouY00357@zjod.net> The basic problem with utility programs that act like Palm's HotSync is that most of 'em can't merge files. I.e.: if file A on machine 1 has changed, but file A on machine 2 hasn't, you're okay. But if file A on machine 1 has changed, and file A on machine 2 has also changed (but with different changes), then a utility that mimics the "hotsync" protocol probably won't do what you want it to. Lansing, Dan wrote: > > I am setting up a backup for my mail server and would like to keep it synchronized with the main one. Basically to save me from having to recreate the accounts on the secondary server I would like to just replicate everything from the primary except the IP and hostname. I know rsync would be an option but I would like some think that could sync in both directions similar to the palm hotsync, in case I have to use the secondary for a while and want to quickly make the changes move over to primary..... > Does anyone know of any utilities that would do this? > > Dan Lansing _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sos at zjod.net Thu Dec 11 10:46:33 2003 From: sos at zjod.net (Steve Siegfried) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ftp question In-Reply-To: from "Bob De Mars" at Dec 11, 2003 10:31:59 AM Message-ID: <200312111646.hBBGkXm32750@zjod.net> try: "prompt off" then "mget *" Bob De Mars wrote: > > Hello, and a good day to you all. I have a questions about using the > ftp command from a shell. > > Is their a way to download an entire directory from a ftp server using > just one command? > > ie: When I download all the contents of a ftp directory, I have been > using the command: > > mget * > > this works fine, but I have to answer yes to each file before I can > download it. is there a command other than mget, or a switch I can use > with mget to basicly tell it to "download all"??? > > Thanks, > > Bob > -- > Ghala International, Inc. > 1510 East Cliff Road > Burnsville, MN 55337 > T: 952-746-6770 > F: 952-746-6775 > www.ghalaintl.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Thu Dec 11 10:57:42 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ftp question In-Reply-To: <007001c3c005$e03c6610$6d64a8c0@webwsmjk> References: <3FD89BFF.3070407@ghalaintl.com> <007001c3c005$e03c6610$6d64a8c0@webwsmjk> Message-ID: <3FD8A206.7040503@andersonfam.org> Mark J. Kroska wrote: > Ooh, one that I can answer! > > when you log in, disable the "interactive" mode which is set to default, > like this: > > ftp -i hostname > > then you can use "mget *" and it won't prompt for confirmation. > for more details, use "man ftp" Speaking of ftp...you should try out ncftp. It's a console ftp client, but it has *many* features that aren't present in the default ftp client. Here is a short list of some of the cool features: 1. Bookmarking of ftp sites/directories. 2. While browsing, you can do bash-like tab string completion. This is awesome. 3. You can elect to save usernames/passwords. 4. Automatic logging into anonymous sites. No need to type "anonymous" and "foo@bar.com" each time. -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Dec 11 10:53:54 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ftp question In-Reply-To: <3FD89BFF.3070407@ghalaintl.com> References: <3FD89BFF.3070407@ghalaintl.com> Message-ID: <1071161633.20128.236.camel@unixws1> "prompt" You should see something like "prompt set to n" Will get each file with mget without prompting for each one. On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 10:31, Bob De Mars wrote: > Hello, and a good day to you all. I have a questions about using the > ftp command from a shell. > > Is their a way to download an entire directory from a ftp server using > just one command? > > ie: When I download all the contents of a ftp directory, I have been > using the command: > > mget * > > this works fine, but I have to answer yes to each file before I can > download it. is there a command other than mget, or a switch I can use > with mget to basicly tell it to "download all"??? > > Thanks, > > Bob _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mkroska at kdv.com Thu Dec 11 10:43:16 2003 From: mkroska at kdv.com (Mark J. Kroska) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ftp question References: <3FD89BFF.3070407@ghalaintl.com> Message-ID: <007001c3c005$e03c6610$6d64a8c0@webwsmjk> Ooh, one that I can answer! when you log in, disable the "interactive" mode which is set to default, like this: ftp -i hostname then you can use "mget *" and it won't prompt for confirmation. for more details, use "man ftp" Mark Mark J. Kroska Director Web Services KDV Technology and Consulting Services, Inc. Direct 320-258-6412 Main 320-252-7060 Fax 320-252-9627 mkroska@kdv.com "NOTICE: This E-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited, Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it. Thank you." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob De Mars" To: "Twin Cities L U G" Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:31 AM Subject: [TCLUG] ftp question > Hello, and a good day to you all. I have a questions about using the > ftp command from a shell. > > Is their a way to download an entire directory from a ftp server using > just one command? > > ie: When I download all the contents of a ftp directory, I have been > using the command: > > mget * > > this works fine, but I have to answer yes to each file before I can > download it. is there a command other than mget, or a switch I can use > with mget to basicly tell it to "download all"??? > > Thanks, > > Bob > -- > Ghala International, Inc. > 1510 East Cliff Road > Burnsville, MN 55337 > T: 952-746-6770 > F: 952-746-6775 > www.ghalaintl.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eh at constantdata.com Thu Dec 11 11:11:33 2003 From: eh at constantdata.com (Abderrahman El Haddi.) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] server replication In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FAD6@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: Dan, Please take a look at Constant Replicator or Constant Replicator DB from Constant Data. You can download a free trial copy of Real time replication for Linux from our web site ( www.constantdata.com). You can configure it for unidirectional or bi-directional. Thank you. El Haddi Constant Data On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Lansing, Dan wrote: > I am setting up a backup for my mail server and would like to > keep it synchronized with the main one. Basically to save me > from having to recreate the accounts on the secondary server > I would like to just replicate everything from the primary except > the IP and hostname. I know rsync would be an option but I > would like some think that could sync in both directions similar to the > palm hotsync, in case I have to use the secondary for a while > and want to quickly make the changes move over to primary..... > Does anyone know of any utilities that would do this? > > Dan Lansing > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Thu Dec 11 11:02:04 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VNC Server server - better option than stock way Message-ID: AAAAHHHHH Thank you! That did it! I haven't seen anything about this in redhat's docs or the VNC docs. I didn't even know /etc/sysconfig existed! (didn't realize that that's what that line in the script meant) Thanks a ton, Matt > -----Original Message----- > From: Troy.A Johnson [mailto:troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us] > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:01 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org; mmurphy@tc-tech.com > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] VNC Server server - better option than stock way > > > Matt, > > Sorry for taking so long. Check out the file: > > /etc/sysconfig/vncservers _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Thu Dec 11 11:32:01 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Moving users.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Has anyone ever seen or used a script to move users from one server to another? I've given it some thought, and it seems that one of the main problems would be that group numbers would be different between servers... Ideas? In this instance, I am moving users from a redhat 7.something to RH9 (I am upgrading the hw at the same time) Regards, Chris Smith API Information Systems Group www.apitools.net 651-604-2758 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Thu Dec 11 11:37:41 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Udp port / starting stoping? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am using openvpn with a large number of clients talking to one server. One of the previously working configs recently stopped working, and reported that the interface was already in use. I moved that configuration to another port, but now netstat still shows 5029 as there and with a large receive queue.. Is there a way to "reset" that port w/o restarting network (which would disrupt all the other vpns) Regards, Chris Smith _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Dec 11 12:16:30 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Udp port / starting stoping? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1071166590.20128.338.camel@unixws1> lsof should let you map the port to the process ID, and see if it's something that you can kill to free it up again. Not sure if it comes with your distro or not... ifconfig down and then up might clear it too...just be careful if you're doing it remote :) On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 11:37, Christopher Smith wrote: > I am using openvpn with a large number of clients talking to one server. One > of the previously working configs recently stopped working, and reported > that the interface was already in use. I moved that configuration to another > port, but now netstat still shows 5029 as there and with a large receive > queue.. Is there a way to "reset" that port w/o restarting network (which > would disrupt all the other vpns) > > > Regards, > > Chris Smith > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Thu Dec 11 12:50:45 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Udp port / starting stoping? In-Reply-To: <1071166590.20128.338.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: I'd tried ifconfig down before w/ no luck, but lsof worked great thanks! -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Adam Maloney Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 12:17 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Udp port / starting stoping? lsof should let you map the port to the process ID, and see if it's something that you can kill to free it up again. Not sure if it comes with your distro or not... ifconfig down and then up might clear it too...just be careful if you're doing it remote :) On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 11:37, Christopher Smith wrote: > I am using openvpn with a large number of clients talking to one > server. One of the previously working configs recently stopped > working, and reported that the interface was already in use. I moved > that configuration to another port, but now netstat still shows 5029 > as there and with a large receive queue.. Is there a way to "reset" > that port w/o restarting network (which would disrupt all the other > vpns) > > > Regards, > > Chris Smith > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Thu Dec 11 14:08:04 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Udp port / starting stoping? In-Reply-To: <1071166590.20128.338.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Adam Maloney wrote: > ifconfig down and then up might clear it too...just be careful if you're > doing it remote :) thats why you do a: ifdown eth0; sleep 5; ifup eth0 -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Thu Dec 11 22:30:51 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] server replication References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD526FAD6@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <021601c3c068$b9621310$0201a8c0@brinstar> Lansing, Dan writes: > I am setting up a backup for my mail server and would like to keep it > synchronized with the main one. Your best bet here with a normal mail system (qmail, Postfix, etc.) is to store mail using NFS on a system that has RAID. Backups don't work well for mail, since they will always be out of date. I don't know of any network replicated file systems for free operating systems. If you need multiple front end servers (doubtful, since the disk is always the bottleneck), use a SQL database to store your user database. MySQL is good for this since it is fast and has reliable replication. vpopmail, a popular virtual domain manager for qmail, works well with MySQL. You can also setup Postfix to use MySQL for the user database. Even if you don't need multiple front end servers, storing your user database in a SQL database is nice. An alternate approach is PowerMail. It is designed to be redundant and distributed. It allows you to run storage daemons on multiple machines that are all kept in sync automatically. The user database can be stored in MySQL, which allows for MySQL replication. I like the concept, but would need to do testing before I put it into production. I was discouraged by the fact that it didn't compile "out of the box" on FreeBSD. Commercial support is available from PowerDNS, the company that wrote it. http://www.powerdns.com/products/powermail/ Another approach is to store both your user database and mail in an SQL database. The allows you to use MySQL replication to automatically replicate everything. To my knowledge, dbmail is the only open source mail server that does this. I have never tried this software, but I like the concept. http://www.dbmail.org/ -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Fri Dec 12 11:10:31 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? Message-ID: Some folk at work have some ftp needs that go above and beyond our anonymous "blinb" ftp site we already have. They need something where one time users can drop off files (maybe as an anonymous users) but also recurrent file transmitors would have a user id and be able to "pick up" and drop off stuff...so there'd be admin of users/passwords. Security is a concenr too (!)...I've played with wu-ftp and the ftp daemons that come "out of the box" with Mandrake (proftp I think)... but was wondering what y'all use and how it's secured and how user admin is handled! Thanks johnnyf _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Sk3tch at sk3tch.net Fri Dec 12 07:45:31 2003 From: Sk3tch at sk3tch.net (Sk3tch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? Message-ID: I use ProFTPD with SFTP. I just created local user accounts so by default my users are locked into their /home/ directory. I'm using SFTP to provide access to content on Windows shares, so I have mounted Windows drives ln'd to each users home dir. Perhaps kinda kludgey, but it works for me and I'm happy with it so far. I'm a relative linux n00b so I'm pretty proud of myself. :) ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org on behalf of Johnny Fulcrum Sent: Fri 12/12/2003 11:10 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? Some folk at work have some ftp needs that go above and beyond our anonymous "blinb" ftp site we already have. They need something where one time users can drop off files (maybe as an anonymous users) but also recurrent file transmitors would have a user id and be able to "pick up" and drop off stuff...so there'd be admin of users/passwords. Security is a concenr too (!)...I've played with wu-ftp and the ftp daemons that come "out of the box" with Mandrake (proftp I think)... but was wondering what y'all use and how it's secured and how user admin is handled! Thanks johnnyf _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4396 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031212/5f1857b7/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Fri Dec 12 09:06:42 2003 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 12, 2003, at 11:10 AM, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Some folk at work have some ftp needs that go above and beyond our > anonymous "blinb" ftp site we already have. They need something where > one time users can drop off files (maybe as an anonymous users) but > also recurrent file transmitors would have a user id and be able to > "pick up" and drop off stuff...so there'd be admin of users/passwords. > Security is a concenr too (!)...I've played with wu-ftp and the ftp > daemons that come "out of the box" with Mandrake (proftp I think)... > but was wondering what y'all use and how it's secured and how user > admin is handled! > while not free, i've been extremely happy with ncftpd[1]. it's a from scratch implementation of ftp with lots of really nice optimizations and very flexible user management capabilities. highly recommended. references ---------- [1] - http://www.ncftpd.com -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Fri Dec 12 09:17:50 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? In-Reply-To: ; from johnnyfulcrum@mn.rr.com on Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 11:10:31AM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20031212091750.B28426@thinkunix.net> I would recommend proftpd. Used it on a publically available ftp server where I last worked. The config file is very apache-like so it's pretty easy to understand. Supports both anonymous and "user" logins. I've heard proftpd is more secure then others, but then again, if you keep your OS and software current, you should be ok with whatever you decide to run. As far as user management, that was a manual process. Since we didn't have that many users and weren't adding them that frequently, we didn't bother to automate the process. If you have windows users, you might also look at WebDAV http://webdav.org/ Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Some folk at work have some ftp needs that go above and beyond our > anonymous "blinb" ftp site we already have. They need something where one > time users can drop off files (maybe as an anonymous users) but also > recurrent file transmitors would have a user id and be able to "pick up" > and drop off stuff...so there'd be admin of users/passwords. Security is > a concenr too (!)...I've played with wu-ftp and the ftp daemons that come > "out of the box" with Mandrake (proftp I think)... but was wondering what > y'all use and how it's secured and how user admin is handled! > > Thanks > johnnyf > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Fri Dec 12 09:13:24 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I use and like Proftp. I haven't had much experience with others however. I looked at ncftpd, but I have only a few clients at a time, so I didn't spring for it. I do use ncftp as my hands down favorite client however. Regards, Chris Smith API Information Systems Group www.apitools.net 651-604-2758 -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of steve ulrich Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 9:07 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? On Dec 12, 2003, at 11:10 AM, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Some folk at work have some ftp needs that go above and beyond our > anonymous "blinb" ftp site we already have. They need something where > one time users can drop off files (maybe as an anonymous users) but > also recurrent file transmitors would have a user id and be able to > "pick up" and drop off stuff...so there'd be admin of users/passwords. > Security is a concenr too (!)...I've played with wu-ftp and the ftp > daemons that come "out of the box" with Mandrake (proftp I think)... > but was wondering what y'all use and how it's secured and how user > admin is handled! > while not free, i've been extremely happy with ncftpd[1]. it's a from scratch implementation of ftp with lots of really nice optimizations and very flexible user management capabilities. highly recommended. references ---------- [1] - http://www.ncftpd.com -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Fri Dec 12 10:26:48 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? References: Message-ID: <005201c3c0cc$bdd7e550$0201a8c0@brinstar> Johnny Fulcrum writes: > Security is a concenr too (!)...I've played with > wu-ftp and the ftp daemons that come "out of the box" with Mandrake > (proftp I think)... WU-FTPD and ProFTPD are insecure. They each had a remote root security hole within the last months. Don't ever consider using them. vsftpd is probably the best secure full service open source FTP server. I don't use it because the only way to handle virtual users is with PAM (ick). publicfile's ftpd is also secure, but it only allows anonymous downloads. I like NcFTPd. It's not open source, but it is secure, cheap, highly configurable and extendable. You can write a custom authentication daemon, making it easy to integrate NcFTPd with users stored in a database (great for free or paid hosting). You can also write an event daemon or event processor, making it easy to filter or scan files after they are uploaded. Note that while FTP is still very popular, it is also fundamentally insecure for anything other than anonymous downloads: http://cr.yp.to/ftp/security.html -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From myok at ogzr.org Fri Dec 12 11:01:11 2003 From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB914@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB914@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Message-ID: <1071248471.1168.7.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 09:51, Neigebauer, Ben wrote: > I still have a couple of 32MB EDO DIMMS, if anyone needs them. > > I can't imagine what they would be good for anymore.... They'd fit in the IBM dual-processor Pentium Pro system I gave to a friend a year or two ago. The processors were two steppings apart, so SMP under Linux was unstable at best, but configured as a boring old single-CPU system, it's been rock solid. If you want to part with the DIMMS, send me an e-mail and I can drop by. -- Carl Patten _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From thompson at math-cs.cns.uni.edu Fri Dec 12 11:03:32 2003 From: thompson at math-cs.cns.uni.edu (Aaron Thompson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031212170332.GH28940@faculty.cns.uni.edu> You could use ssh (and use sftp or scp.) Its not ftp but its encrypted and has a client for every OS. ... Or you could use https (apache+ssl) and write a simple file upload CGI script. Again not FTP but encrypted and available from any OS. @ On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 11:10:31AM -0600, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Some folk at work have some ftp needs that go above and beyond our > anonymous "blinb" ftp site we already have. They need something where one > time users can drop off files (maybe as an anonymous users) but also > recurrent file transmitors would have a user id and be able to "pick up" > and drop off stuff...so there'd be admin of users/passwords. Security is > a concenr too (!)...I've played with wu-ftp and the ftp daemons that come > "out of the box" with Mandrake (proftp I think)... but was wondering what > y'all use and how it's secured and how user admin is handled! > > Thanks > johnnyf > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Aaron Thompson Unix Systems Administrator, College of Natural Science University of Northern Iowa Cedar Falls, IA 50614 "The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't." -Douglas Adams _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Fri Dec 12 11:01:01 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (bradyh@bitstream.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? In-Reply-To: <005201c3c0cc$bdd7e550$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <005201c3c0cc$bdd7e550$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <1071248461.3fd9f44d3998c@mail.bitstream.net> I prefer to use FTP over SSH2 for non-anonymous access. Running one daemon (SSH) instead of 2 (SSH and FTP) is probably at least twice as secure. Brady Quoting David Phillips : > Johnny Fulcrum writes: > > Security is a concenr too (!)...I've played with > > wu-ftp and the ftp daemons that come "out of the box" with Mandrake > > (proftp I think)... > > WU-FTPD and ProFTPD are insecure. They each had a remote root security hole > within the last months. Don't ever consider using them. > > vsftpd is probably the best secure full service open source FTP server. I > don't use it because the only way to handle virtual users is with PAM (ick). > publicfile's ftpd is also secure, but it only allows anonymous downloads. > > I like NcFTPd. It's not open source, but it is secure, cheap, highly > configurable and extendable. You can write a custom authentication daemon, > making it easy to integrate NcFTPd with users stored in a database (great > for free or paid hosting). You can also write an event daemon or event > processor, making it easy to filter or scan files after they are uploaded. > > Note that while FTP is still very popular, it is also fundamentally insecure > for anything other than anonymous downloads: > > http://cr.yp.to/ftp/security.html > > -- > David Phillips > http://david.acz.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Dec 12 11:10:48 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? In-Reply-To: <1071248461.3fd9f44d3998c@mail.bitstream.net> References: <005201c3c0cc$bdd7e550$0201a8c0@brinstar> <1071248461.3fd9f44d3998c@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <20031212111048.0f38a517.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Interesting thread. I haven't seen mention of my favorite: pure-ftpd - http://www.pureftpd.org/ Anyone else use it? Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Dec 12 11:20:06 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <1071248471.1168.7.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB914@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> <1071248471.1168.7.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> Message-ID: <3FD9F8C6.2040609@visi.com> You mean I get to get rid of some hardware! :-D Sure stop by. If you use MapQuest for the map be careful. The Map they use is old. Highway 7 has changed use the exit and go left and left again up Mill Street 532 Wheeler Drive Excelsior, MN. 55331 Phone 952-470-9224 Times: Any time before 4:30 PM today Tomorrow all day Saturday all day except 10:00 AM - 1:30 PM Sunday all day Monday is to far in the future to predict. Sam >They'd fit in the IBM dual-processor Pentium Pro system I gave to a friend a year or two ago. >The processors were two steppings apart, so SMP under Linux was unstable at best, but configured as a >boring old single-CPU system, it's been rock solid. > >If you want to part with the DIMMS, send me an e-mail and I can drop by. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Fri Dec 12 11:44:05 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? In-Reply-To: <20031212111048.0f38a517.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <005201c3c0cc$bdd7e550$0201a8c0@brinstar> <1071248461.3fd9f44d3998c@mail.bitstream.net> <20031212111048.0f38a517.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <3FD9FE65.1030108@andersonfam.org> Josh Trutwin wrote: > Anyone else use it? Yep - I love pureftpd. The pure-ftpdwho function is the clincher for me... -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Sk3tch at sk3tch.net Fri Dec 12 11:46:36 2003 From: Sk3tch at sk3tch.net (Sk3tch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org on behalf of bradyh@bitstream.net Sent: Fri 12/12/2003 11:01 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? I prefer to use FTP over SSH2 for non-anonymous access. Running one daemon (SSH) instead of 2 (SSH and FTP) is probably at least twice as secure. Brady --- You mean SCP? It isn't FTP over SSH2 unless it is SFTP, which requires and FTP daemon, correct? Versus other secure FTP solutions, I think SFTP is the best right now. SSL FTP is a mess with all the ports required to be open. SFTP needs port 22 on your firewall and that is it...no mess...no fuss. Sk3tch -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Sk3tch -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2432 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031212/95179438/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From thompson at math-cs.cns.uni.edu Fri Dec 12 12:13:45 2003 From: thompson at math-cs.cns.uni.edu (Aaron Thompson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031212181345.GJ28940@faculty.cns.uni.edu> <.02> the question shouldn't be: "Did it have a hole?". it should be: "Was it fixed (properly)? and how quickly?". On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 11:55:15AM -0600, Sk3tch wrote: > David Phillips writes: > > >WU-FTPD and ProFTPD are insecure. They each had a remote root security hole > >within the last months. Don't ever consider using them. > > > > --- > > Using your logic, we all shouldn't use OpenSSH since it has had a remote root exploit in the past... > > Use what you like, secure it properly, and keep it updated. > > Sk3tch > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Aaron Thompson Unix Systems Administrator, College of Natural Science University of Northern Iowa Cedar Falls, IA 50614 "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -Douglas Adams _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Dec 12 12:25:55 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun Sparc S2 Message-ID: <3FDA0833.8060304@visi.com> I have a box that's a project for me, a Sparc S2. I need to know (from someone who knows) what to do next. Several Questions I'm going to need to get (can't remember what it's called) ethernet connector 15 pin to 10bt. *I have that covered* I put a SCSI disk in it, it powers up. The SCSI cable I used is terminated, do I need to use a non-terminated cable (I have one I just need to know)? Someone told me not to terminate it on a cable. Coming from the Compaq world we sometimes did and some times didn't. I'm going to go with Debian (stop jumping up and down) because I've installed it on laptops using the diskettes, all I have is a diskette drive. * I have an internal CD ROM that I could fudge to get Linux installed I guess, ?hmmmm? * What I need to do is use a serial cable to get a terminal session going. Now that's the sticky part for me. It's been 15 years sense I plugged a serial cable in to an NCR Tower and connected a terminal and they only had a tape drives in them. I have several 25 pin serial cables, some 9 pin cables and gender changers, any advice? I don't have a Sun keyboard or mouse for that matter. I'm not sure if I can go from my Red Hat 8 laptop (9 pin serial) using a Shell as a terminal session or if I'm going to need a terminal application of some kind to make this work? I'd really rather not use a MS box to use Hyperterm for this, sort of feels wrong to do that. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri Dec 12 12:41:47 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun Sparc S2 In-Reply-To: <3FDA0833.8060304@visi.com> References: <3FDA0833.8060304@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031212124147.A21502@baker.space.umn.edu> On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 12:25:55PM -0600, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > I have a box that's a project for me, a Sparc S2. I need to know (from > someone who knows) what to do next. > I'm going to go with Debian (stop jumping up and down) because I've > installed it on laptops using the diskettes, all I have is a diskette > drive. > * I have an internal CD ROM that I could fudge to get Linux > installed I guess, ?hmmmm? * I would suggest doing a tftp network install if you have the network card working. The directions on how to do it are in the Debian docs. This is my favorite type of install on Sparc hardware, because the bootable CDs for Sparc hardware are often flaky. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Dec 12 12:46:14 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun Sparc S2 In-Reply-To: <3FDA0833.8060304@visi.com> References: <3FDA0833.8060304@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031212124614.3c428ab2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> > I'm going to go with Debian (stop jumping up and down) because I've > installed it on laptops using the diskettes, all I have is a diskette > drive. > * I have an internal CD ROM that I could fudge to get Linux > installed I guess, ?hmmmm? * I just installed Debian on a Sparc Sunfire 120, it wasn't too painful. I don't think I even had to build a custom install CD, so I'd assume you would be fine with the CD or boot disks (so long as they are the Sparc version and not x86 of course). Does Debian install well on old laptops? I have a PII Gateway that I want to throw Debian or Slackware on. > What I need to do is use a serial cable to get a terminal session going. > Now that's the sticky part for me. I'm not sure what kind of hardware you are working with, but if you absolutely have to use a Windows, this is a very good freeware option: IVT: http://home.planet.nl/~ruurdb/IVT.HTM Unfortunately, I haven't found a terminal emulator that I like for *nix. Basic Windows install, then connect it up to your serial line, read your Sparc S2 docs to find out the baud/parity/etc., start IVT - Telnet and select the Serial protocol and fill out the relevant stuff (Portname woudl be COM1) and let her rip. One thing that I found with Debian is that during the install the "screens" don't work very quickly over a serial line and it can be a little frustrating. Have fun, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From np at f-matic.net Fri Dec 12 14:01:51 2003 From: np at f-matic.net (nick phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] networking OS X with linux machine via hub? Message-ID: <1071259310.585.0.camel@sex_machine> a call for help to any networking people! i need a little help setting up a local network to connect an OS X powerbook and a linux desktop, using a small 4 port hub. what i'd ideally like to do is to have internet access on my linux computer, but be able to ssh into my OS X laptop to grab files i need. what i've attempted so far is plugging my cable modem into the uplink slot of the hub, and plugging my powerbook and linux box into ports 2 and 3. the powerbook auto-detects the internet connection and runs fine -- my linux box doesn't seem to be able to do this, although it can auto-detect fine when plugged directly into the cable modem. so that's problem number one: how can i get the linux box to detect the internet connection when connected through the hub? the second question is how to get the two computers networked ok. i tried assigning the linux box an internal ip address 192.x.x.x using ifconfig, which works fine. but when i attempt to ssh into the box from my powerbook using that internal ip address, nothing happens. i have ssh enabled on the linux box. when i try to nmap the internal ip address from my powerbook, it shows no open ports, so obviously i'm doing something wrong. sorry if this is a little vague -- i'm a complete novice at networking. if anyone needs more info, i will be happy to provide it. if it helps, i am using a powerbook g3 with OS 10.3.1, and an athlon XP 2000 running debian 2.4.21, with a Hawking 10Base-T 4 Port Hub. thanks for any help! best, nick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Fri Dec 12 13:56:27 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? In-Reply-To: <20031212181345.GJ28940@faculty.cns.uni.edu> References: <20031212181345.GJ28940@faculty.cns.uni.edu> Message-ID: <20031212195627.GA5753@therub.org> On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 12:13:45PM -0600, Aaron Thompson wrote: > <.02> > the question shouldn't be: "Did it have a hole?". > it should be: "Was it fixed (properly)? and how quickly?". > Yes, but why choose a *ftpd that has a history of vulnerabilities such as wu-ftp. I had a professor in college a couple years ago, and all of his red hat boxes got 0wned through a wu-ftp exploit. Now, i'm sure the boxes weren't up to date, but he was quite embrassed about the whole thing. Anyway, about the sftp thing, if I understand it right, it's not ftp at all, just an ftp-like client that uses scp, right? from the users perspective, it's like ftp, but it is really not ftp at all. If I am right (anyone?), then sftp is a bit of a misnomer. And if you're looking for a good sftp client or whatever you want to call it, I have used filezilla from windows with good results. supports regular style ftp, as well as "ftp" over port 22 scp style. dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Fri Dec 12 13:16:18 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] networking OS X with linux machine via hub? In-Reply-To: <1071259310.585.0.camel@sex_machine> Message-ID: Does the linux box have a firewall running? Try "service iptables stop" Regards, Chris Smith -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of nick phillips Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:02 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] networking OS X with linux machine via hub? a call for help to any networking people! i need a little help setting up a local network to connect an OS X powerbook and a linux desktop, using a small 4 port hub. what i'd ideally like to do is to have internet access on my linux computer, but be able to ssh into my OS X laptop to grab files i need. what i've attempted so far is plugging my cable modem into the uplink slot of the hub, and plugging my powerbook and linux box into ports 2 and 3. the powerbook auto-detects the internet connection and runs fine -- my linux box doesn't seem to be able to do this, although it can auto-detect fine when plugged directly into the cable modem. so that's problem number one: how can i get the linux box to detect the internet connection when connected through the hub? the second question is how to get the two computers networked ok. i tried assigning the linux box an internal ip address 192.x.x.x using ifconfig, which works fine. but when i attempt to ssh into the box from my powerbook using that internal ip address, nothing happens. i have ssh enabled on the linux box. when i try to nmap the internal ip address from my powerbook, it shows no open ports, so obviously i'm doing something wrong. sorry if this is a little vague -- i'm a complete novice at networking. if anyone needs more info, i will be happy to provide it. if it helps, i am using a powerbook g3 with OS 10.3.1, and an athlon XP 2000 running debian 2.4.21, with a Hawking 10Base-T 4 Port Hub. thanks for any help! best, nick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Fri Dec 12 13:21:16 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun Sparc S2 In-Reply-To: <3FDA0833.8060304@visi.com> References: <3FDA0833.8060304@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FDA152C.4070502@comcast.net> 15pin DIN to Ethernet RJ45 is usually handled by a "transciever". I'm very familar with these, as we used them on the back of Cisco 2514 routers at one of my former jobs. I actually obtained a couple of these a couple years ago from a company that was dumping old hardware, and have a spare. I'd be willing to part with the spare for a few bucks if anyone needs one. It's a Allied Telesis CentreCom MX20T 10baseT. I can test it to be sure, but I'm pretty sure it works. I think I tested both of them when I got them. Samuel MacDonald wrote: > I have a box that's a project for me, a Sparc S2. I need to know (from > someone who knows) what to do next. > > Several Questions > I'm going to need to get (can't remember what it's called) ethernet > connector 15 pin to 10bt. > *I have that covered* -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Fri Dec 12 14:46:39 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] networking OS X with linux machine via hub? In-Reply-To: <1071259310.585.0.camel@sex_machine> References: <1071259310.585.0.camel@sex_machine> Message-ID: <20031212204639.GA6222@therub.org> On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 02:01:51PM -0600, nick phillips wrote: > a call for help to any networking people! > > i need a little help setting up a local network to connect an OS X > powerbook and a linux desktop, using a small 4 port hub. what i'd > ideally like to do is to have internet access on my linux computer, but > be able to ssh into my OS X laptop to grab files i need. You can't do this with a hub, you'll need to get a router ($30 at best buy), or use one of your computers to "share" the connection. Try plugging your modem into your powerbook via USB (if available), and the run the network cable from your laptop to your linux box. I don't know where to go in OS X to share the connection, but dig around in the networking stuff - it could be called NAT (network address translation). Of course there are other solutions. The deal is you only get 1 IP address from your internet provider (assuming standard residential account..), so you need to have one computer act as a router to share the connection to other devices. This is why when you put the connection into the hub, only one computer gets the internet access - whichever computer grabs the connection first gets it. hope that helps, dan > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bruce.broecker at toro.com Fri Dec 12 13:48:15 2003 From: bruce.broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] networking OS X with linux machine via hub? Message-ID: You have more going on here than I can probably cover in email, but I'll take a shot. Your macintosh is grabbing your internet connection. Cable modems are generally configured to allow only a single connection to the internet, subsequent connections will be blocked, unless you have contracted for something special from your provider. You can't communicate between your Mac and your desktop because the addresses that have been assigned to them are on different networks. Your Mac has an address from your provider, which will be a routable address. Your linux box has the 192.x.x.x address that you assigned. Even though they are physically on the same network, they have no way to know that (or communicate with each other) because the addresses tell them they are on different networks. If you want to get both machines setup on the same network behind the cable modem, you will need some type of network sharing device. You can use your Linux box to perform that function, by adding a second ethernet interface and configuring IP Masquerading. If you don't feel that brave, you can purchase a broadband router such as the SMC Barricade (my preference). There are plenty of others out there as well, by Linksys, Dlink, Netgear, ad infinitum. Hope that helps, Bruce Bruce Broecker Network Comm Supervisor The Toro Company >>> np@f-matic.net 12/12/03 02:01PM >>> a call for help to any networking people! i need a little help setting up a local network to connect an OS X powerbook and a linux desktop, using a small 4 port hub. what i'd ideally like to do is to have internet access on my linux computer, but be able to ssh into my OS X laptop to grab files i need. what i've attempted so far is plugging my cable modem into the uplink slot of the hub, and plugging my powerbook and linux box into ports 2 and 3. the powerbook auto-detects the internet connection and runs fine -- my linux box doesn't seem to be able to do this, although it can auto-detect fine when plugged directly into the cable modem. so that's problem number one: how can i get the linux box to detect the internet connection when connected through the hub? the second question is how to get the two computers networked ok. i tried assigning the linux box an internal ip address 192.x.x.x using ifconfig, which works fine. but when i attempt to ssh into the box from my powerbook using that internal ip address, nothing happens. i have ssh enabled on the linux box. when i try to nmap the internal ip address from my powerbook, it shows no open ports, so obviously i'm doing something wrong. sorry if this is a little vague -- i'm a complete novice at networking. if anyone needs more info, i will be happy to provide it. if it helps, i am using a powerbook g3 with OS 10.3.1, and an athlon XP 2000 running debian 2.4.21, with a Hawking 10Base-T 4 Port Hub. thanks for any help! best, nick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Fri Dec 12 14:21:51 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? In-Reply-To: <20031212195627.GA5753@therub.org> References: <20031212181345.GJ28940@faculty.cns.uni.edu> <20031212195627.GA5753@therub.org> Message-ID: <20031212202151.GC15319@mail.el-swifto.com> On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 01:56:27PM -0600, Dan Rue wrote: > Anyway, about the sftp thing, if I understand it right, it's not ftp at > all, just an ftp-like client that uses scp, right? from the users > perspective, it's like ftp, but it is really not ftp at all. If I am > right (anyone?), then sftp is a bit of a misnomer. > That's my understanding, but ICBW. I'm still racking my brain for a reason anyone would need FTP any longer. In my mind it's right up there with rsh and telnet. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From thompson at math-cs.cns.uni.edu Fri Dec 12 14:29:29 2003 From: thompson at math-cs.cns.uni.edu (Aaron Thompson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? In-Reply-To: <20031212195627.GA5753@therub.org> References: <20031212181345.GJ28940@faculty.cns.uni.edu> <20031212195627.GA5753@therub.org> Message-ID: <20031212202929.GM28940@faculty.cns.uni.edu> I agree that its a good idea to stay away from chronically exploited services such as wu_ftpd or sendmail - but I don't see a problem with using the service... understanding that lots of updates will be required. (Sounds like maintaining a windows computer doesn't it :) ) I believe sftp is _not_ the same as tunneled ftp (via ssh/stunnel). It is one option that comes with OpenSSH (and probability other SSH packages). I believe it requires additional config to get the sftp sub-system working properly where scp just uses that regular ssh. Since I'm a fan of SCP and mentioned many clients were available here is my list of favorites: Windows: http://winscp.sourceforge.net/eng/ Linux: (open an xterm) scp (from http://www.openssh.org/) OSX: http://rsug.itd.umich.edu/software/fugu/download.html OS9: http://www.lysator.liu.se/%7Ejonasw/freeware/niftyssh/ @ On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 01:56:27PM -0600, Dan Rue wrote: > On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 12:13:45PM -0600, Aaron Thompson wrote: > > <.02> > > the question shouldn't be: "Did it have a hole?". > > it should be: "Was it fixed (properly)? and how quickly?". > > > Yes, but why choose a *ftpd that has a history of vulnerabilities such > as wu-ftp. I had a professor in college a couple years ago, and all of > his red hat boxes got 0wned through a wu-ftp exploit. Now, i'm sure the > boxes weren't up to date, but he was quite embrassed about the whole > thing. > > Anyway, about the sftp thing, if I understand it right, it's not ftp at > all, just an ftp-like client that uses scp, right? from the users > perspective, it's like ftp, but it is really not ftp at all. If I am > right (anyone?), then sftp is a bit of a misnomer. > > And if you're looking for a good sftp client or whatever you want to > call it, I have used filezilla from windows with good results. supports > regular style ftp, as well as "ftp" over port 22 scp style. > > dan -- Aaron Thompson Unix Systems Administrator, College of Natural Science University of Northern Iowa Cedar Falls, IA 50614 "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -Douglas Adams _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Fri Dec 12 14:34:56 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] outlook > mailbox? Message-ID: Hi folks, I'm considering moving our company from pop3 mailboxes to local IMAP email, and I'm wondering if there's an easy way to export email from outlook and outlook express into an IMAP folder. Any ideas? Thanks, Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Dec 12 14:27:39 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] slackware 9.2? Message-ID: <20031212142739.3c8d5269.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> I know there are a couple Slack enthusiasts on this list, so I was wondering if any of them knew if Slackware 9.2 is due out any time soon? I want to put Slackware on a laptop and judging by their release history it seems as if a new release is due any day now. Thx, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Fri Dec 12 14:41:34 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] outlook > mailbox? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lol, I just figured it out. Not so good for a large number of users, but drag 'n drop works well. =] Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Fri Dec 12 14:46:57 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] outlook > mailbox? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you have both accounts set up in outlook you can just drag messages from one to the other. At least this works well with Qmail and with Communigate You realize you are likely to use up a ton of storage if you do this though right? I limit my imap users to 100megs. If they need more storage they can pull it down to the local box. Regards, Chris Smith -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Matt Murphy Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:35 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] outlook > mailbox? Hi folks, I'm considering moving our company from pop3 mailboxes to local IMAP email, and I'm wondering if there's an easy way to export email from outlook and outlook express into an IMAP folder. Any ideas? Thanks, Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Dec 12 15:00:16 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] slackware 9.2? Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3802@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> 9.1 just came out a couple months ago....i think the schedule they said when got my subscription is about every 6 months a new release....i think it was October when 9.1 came out....i don't think the next ver will be for a few more months Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Josh Trutwin Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:28 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] slackware 9.2? I know there are a couple Slack enthusiasts on this list, so I was wondering if any of them knew if Slackware 9.2 is due out any time soon? I want to put Slackware on a laptop and judging by their release history it seems as if a new release is due any day now. Thx, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Fri Dec 12 15:09:15 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SUSE In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3802@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: Is there any way to get a Suse Pro ISO? I'd like to try it before I switch. I don't want one of those knoppix (sp?) type running cds. If I do just buy it, I have to wait for a shipment right? I can't just DL it? Regards, Chris Smith _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Fri Dec 12 15:50:44 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] postfix configuration Message-ID: <3CBF41D3-2CED-11D8-AAAF-000A95A50472@visi.com> Hey everyone, I've been working on getting Request Tracker up and running at work. I'm 90% there, but I'm unsure how to proceed on an email configuration question. Request Tracker (RT) lives on a separate box than the main email server here. The behavior I want is for email sent to help@example.com to be forwarded by the main email system to help@support.example.com (the box where RT lives). When RT responds, it needs to sent email back out so that it appears to be coming from help@example.com. I'm using Postfix for this and, for simplicity and security reasons, I want to have the most minimal email capability possible on the RT box. FYI, the main email system is Eudora (EIMS) running on an old Mac. I don't admin that box, but I know it can be configured for all the basic mail server functions. Any hints would be appreciated. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Fri Dec 12 16:11:39 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SUSE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Or you can buy it at one of those brick and mortar store thingies. Last time I was at CompUSA they had plenty of copies of Suse there, and I'm sure that Microcenter carries it, too. On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Christopher Smith wrote: > Is there any way to get a Suse Pro ISO? I'd like to try it before I switch. > I don't want one of those knoppix (sp?) type running cds. If I do just buy > it, I have to wait for a shipment right? I can't just DL it? ------------- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Sk3tch at sk3tch.net Fri Dec 12 16:36:46 2003 From: Sk3tch at sk3tch.net (Sk3tch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SUSE Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org on behalf of Christopher Smith Sent: Fri 12/12/2003 3:09 PM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: [TCLUG] SUSE Is there any way to get a Suse Pro ISO? I'd like to try it before I switch. I don't want one of those knoppix (sp?) type running cds. If I do just buy it, I have to wait for a shipment right? I can't just DL it? --- http://www.suse.com/us/private/products/suse_linux/i386/faqs/index.html#iso_images "The live evaluation version is a SUSE LINUX that runs from CD and does not need to be installed." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2621 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031212/b4628f15/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com Fri Dec 12 16:47:28 2003 From: LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com (Lawrence Clemens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SUSE References: Message-ID: <002401c3c101$eb8cb0e0$24fea8c0@computer> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Fri Dec 12 16:42:28 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (bradyh@bitstream.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rackmount parts Message-ID: <1071268948.3fda4454a7269@mail.bitstream.net> Our 1U rackmount has a dead fan and the company that supplied it keeps jerking us around on sending a new one. Is there anyplace in Minneapolis where you can find stuff like that? Thanks, Brady _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Fri Dec 12 18:00:58 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? In-Reply-To: <20031212202151.GC15319@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <20031212181345.GJ28940@faculty.cns.uni.edu> <20031212195627.GA5753@therub.org> <20031212202151.GC15319@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <20031213000058.GA7805@therub.org> On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 02:21:51PM -0600, John J. Trammell wrote: > I'm still racking my brain for a reason anyone would need > FTP any longer. In my mind it's right up there with rsh > and telnet. Because FTP is all windows people know. Same reason they still use telnet dan > > -- > trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 > Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Fri Dec 12 16:52:33 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rackmount parts In-Reply-To: <1071268948.3fda4454a7269@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: Try CompUSA, I was surprised at their selection of fans the last time I stopped in. Matt > Our 1U rackmount has a dead fan and the company that supplied it > keeps jerking > us around on sending a new one. Is there anyplace in Minneapolis > where you can > find stuff like that? > > Thanks, > Brady _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Fri Dec 12 17:01:00 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rackmount parts In-Reply-To: <1071268948.3fda4454a7269@mail.bitstream.net> References: <1071268948.3fda4454a7269@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > Our 1U rackmount has a dead fan and the company that supplied it keeps > jerking us around on sending a new one. Is there anyplace in > Minneapolis where you can find stuff like that? If you find the dimensions of the fan, I'm sure a google search would turn up an online vendor.. as far as Minneapolis, no clue. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Fri Dec 12 17:54:27 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] slackware 9.2? In-Reply-To: <20031212142739.3c8d5269.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031212142739.3c8d5269.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031212175427.7ba24d05.william.layer@comcast.net> On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:27:39 -0600 Josh Trutwin wrote: > I know there are a couple Slack enthusiasts on this list, so I was wondering if any of them knew if Slackware 9.2 is due out any time soon? I want to put Slackware on a laptop and judging by their release history it seems as if a new release is due any day now. The way things are looking right now, the next slack release might be in the first quarter of 2004 - and offer a 2.6.X kernel as an option to the 2.4 series. There is also some debate as to what the version of the next release will be.. it would not be out of the question to see Slack 10.0 vs. a possible 9.2. Considered taking a look at -current? -Bill _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Fri Dec 12 18:19:31 2003 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rackmount parts In-Reply-To: <1071268948.3fda4454a7269@mail.bitstream.net> (bradyh@bitstream.net) References: <1071268948.3fda4454a7269@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <200312130019.hBD0JVB15423@ecstasy.winternet.com> Brady wrote: >Our 1U rackmount has a dead fan and the company that supplied it keeps >jerking us around on sending a new one. Is there anyplace in >Minneapolis where you can find stuff like that? The MPC Surplus Store had shelves full of fans of all sizes. Many of these fans were surplus, still in OEM packaging and never used. Here's the URL for the MPC Surplus Store. http://www.materialsprocessing.com/surplus.html You will have to call them to see if they have what you need. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tsinks at isd.net Fri Dec 12 18:31:48 2003 From: tsinks at isd.net (Tim Sinks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? References: <20031212181345.GJ28940@faculty.cns.uni.edu><20031212195627.GA5753@therub.org><20031212202151.GC15319@mail.el-swifto.com> <20031213000058.GA7805@therub.org> Message-ID: <011401c3c110$81f41380$0300000a@net.tsinks> Having been involved in several large companies with moving data and receiving data, FTP is sometimes the only way to go. We had all kinds of leased lines, dialups, VPN, etc. There are a number of things to consider in the choice of FTP over other types of data transfer. 1. cost - the other party or parties do not have packages like Direct:Connect, MQSeries, several other encrypted transfer packages, VPN. 2. The parties sending or picking up data are small and/or they may be on dialup. 3. Don't use the internet. 4. The data is small and/or comes intermittently. 5. There are no direct connections to the parties, i.e. leased lines. 6. There is a problem using the encrypted packages. Some data doesn't work well this way. 7. An encrpytion package can be used, like PGP. 8. There is security available - a password protected and secure server/directory outside the firewall. The same inside the firewall. This adds a second layer of passwords, etc. 9. The pickup and/or send is automated and connection time is minimal. 10. There is a timer on the initial connection which shuts the connection off for 30 minutes if the password or protection is not made within a specified time or with more than a few tries. Also, only one connection at a time is allowed. 11. An address/port number/named location is used. We would have the data in a secure external server with access from an internal server via a program for the transfer. The data was checked by a program and packaged for transfer internally via MQS or Connect:Direct or an encrpytion package to another directory. There really was minimal possibility of a security problem with the proper set up. There are a lot of fancy, good transmission packages out there, but they don't always work under certain circumstances - therefore FTP. FTP is kind of like an old uncle. You kind of have to have him around sometimes. Thanks, Tim Sinks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Rue" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? > On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 02:21:51PM -0600, John J. Trammell wrote: > > I'm still racking my brain for a reason anyone would need > > FTP any longer. In my mind it's right up there with rsh > > and telnet. > Because FTP is all windows people know. Same reason they still use > telnet _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Fri Dec 12 19:41:17 2003 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Covad, servers, etc. References: <4104.204.220.62.130.1038254947.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <3FDA6E3D.6000206@cleosci.com> Hey All: I just signed up for Covad DSL -- 30 day risk-free trial supposedly. Here's my question: has anyone on the list used Covad DSL to host a web-visible server (e.g. webserver, MX server)? I ordered the service with the static IP's, and it is my intention to host both a webserver and a mailserver (LINUX), but their FAQ's (at least what I've seen so far) are not terrible helpful in this area other than to point out that they don't support LINUX specifically with their flavor of PPPoE. Obviously, this is a non-issue with Qwest, but Qworst hasn't figured out how to get their DSL into my neighborhood yet :( Thanks for any insight you have! Garrett _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewbaka at toughguy.net Fri Dec 12 21:25:42 2003 From: chewbaka at toughguy.net (B_o_B) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Courier Mail Server Message-ID: <152469314829.20031212212542@toughguy.net> Friday, December 12, 2003 @ 9:21:18 PM Central Standard Time I am planning on dumping our current mail set-up at work, and have been researching alternatives. The Courier Mail sever caught my eye. I like many of the features it has. I was wondering what peoples opinions were about Courier? Thanks, Robert (aka B_o_B) David Felix De Mars West Longitude 90' 15' 43" http://b-o-b.homelinux.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Fri Dec 12 22:27:09 2003 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Covad, servers, etc. In-Reply-To: <3FDA6E3D.6000206@cleosci.com> References: <4104.204.220.62.130.1038254947.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> <3FDA6E3D.6000206@cleosci.com> Message-ID: <16346.38173.854659.895155@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Depends on how much things have changed in the past 2.5 years. I had Covad/Onvoy IDSL. In this case it's ATM over an ISDN line to get extra distance out of it. Worked great with Linux. The "modem" they gave me was a nice little router, I think still have it if anyone wants it, that talks ATM on one side and ethernet on the other. It wasn't tough to get in and configure it as a bridge. I also found they're late night tech support fairly useful and actually Linux friendly. >>>>> "g" == gkrueger writes: g> Hey All: g> I just signed up for Covad DSL -- 30 day risk-free trial supposedly. g> Here's my question: has anyone on the list used Covad DSL to host a g> web-visible server (e.g. webserver, MX server)? I ordered the service g> with the static IP's, and it is my intention to host both a webserver g> and a mailserver (LINUX), but their FAQ's (at least what I've seen so g> far) are not terrible helpful in this area other than to point out that g> they don't support LINUX specifically with their flavor of PPPoE. g> Obviously, this is a non-issue with Qwest, but Qworst hasn't figured out g> how to get their DSL into my neighborhood yet :( g> Thanks for any insight you have! g> Garrett g> _______________________________________________ g> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota g> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org g> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Fri Dec 12 23:02:47 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rackmount parts In-Reply-To: <1071268948.3fda4454a7269@mail.bitstream.net> References: <1071268948.3fda4454a7269@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <200312122302.47257.jack@jacku.com> On Friday 12 December 2003 04:42 pm, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > Our 1U rackmount has a dead fan and the company that supplied it keeps > jerking us around on sending a new one. Is there anyplace in Minneapolis > where you can find stuff like that? > > Thanks, > Brady Another place that has had a decent selection of parts like that is MicroCenter in St Louis Park. Also ACE Electronics (aka Acme Electrontics) in Golden Valley is a pretty good source for any kind of parts. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cncole at earthlink.net Fri Dec 12 23:45:57 2003 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rackmount parts In-Reply-To: <200312122302.47257.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: Don't forget AxMan. Some of the fans they have are unused industrial surplus. They have a pretty large selection. Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jack Ungerleider > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:03 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] rackmount parts > > > On Friday 12 December 2003 04:42 pm, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > > Our 1U rackmount has a dead fan and the company that supplied it keeps > > jerking us around on sending a new one. Is there anyplace in Minneapolis > > where you can find stuff like that? > > > > Thanks, > > Brady > > Another place that has had a decent selection of parts like that is > MicroCenter in St Louis Park. Also ACE Electronics (aka Acme Electrontics) in > Golden Valley is a pretty good source for any kind of parts. > > -- > Jack Ungerleider > jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sat Dec 13 04:24:16 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? References: Message-ID: <003d01c3c163$42f4d310$0201a8c0@brinstar> Sk3tch writes: > Using your logic, we all shouldn't use OpenSSH since it has had a > remote root exploit in the past... That's correct. But, unfortunately, there is no good alternative to OpenSSH. If there was, I would almost certainly be using it. > Use what you like, secure it properly, and keep it updated. No, use the best tool available for the job. You can use software that is poorly designed and implemented, which has had security holes in the past and is likely to have them in the future. Or you can use software that is designed and implemented with security in mind. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sat Dec 13 05:03:49 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? References: <20031212181345.GJ28940@faculty.cns.uni.edu> Message-ID: <004201c3c168$c93ec700$0201a8c0@brinstar> Aaron Thompson writes: > the question shouldn't be: "Did it have a hole?". > it should be: "Was it fixed (properly)? and how quickly?". You need to determine why it had a hole and what design and implementation practices allowed that to happen. Doing so will allow you to determine the likelihood of more security holes in the future. With poorly designed and implemented software like BIND, Sendmail, WU-FTPD, ProFTPd, etc., you can't think you found all the security holes with any amount of confidence. You don't make software secure by removing the bugs. You make it secure by not writing them in the first place. Buffer overflows and the standard C library are a great example, both because they nicely illustrate the point and because they are likely the biggest problem area for secure software. It is difficult to manipulate strings in C using the standard library, due to a number of issues: - a pointer to a buffer tells you nothing about the size of the buffer - strings are not binary safe - absence of the terminator almost guarantees memory corruption - strncpy() does not guarantee termination - strncat() is not intuitive to use and is used differently than strncpy() and snprintf() (The OpenBSD strlcpy() and strlcat() functions fix the brain-dead design of strncpy() and strncat(), but unfortunately, most programs don't use them. While they help avoid the problem of not terminating a string, they cannot fix the size or binary data issues.) Given these issues, any programs manipulating strings using the standard string functions will be potentially vulnerable to a buffer overflow, unless the programmer was very careful to do things correctly everywhere. A programmer will usually make at least one mistake. Thus, a single vulnerability of this class means that there are likely to be other vulnerabilities, given that other places in the program have similar conditions. Looking at it from a different viewpoint shows that using a safer string handling technique can almost completely eliminate buffer overflows. The key issue here is to solve the problem instead of simply treating the symptoms. Bugs are a symptom of a bad design and implementation. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sat Dec 13 05:28:04 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Courier Mail Server References: <152469314829.20031212212542@toughguy.net> Message-ID: <013901c3c16c$2c5bd370$0201a8c0@brinstar> B_o_B writes: > I am planning on dumping our current mail set-up at work, and have > been researching alternatives. The Courier Mail sever caught my eye. > I like many of the features it has. I was wondering what peoples > opinions were about Courier? I tried it out a couple of years ago. It was relatively easy to get working with MySQL user accounts, which I liked. If you are looking for a complete mail system that has everything (SMTP, POP3, IMAP, webmail), Courier MTA is probably it. The integration is nice from a certain standpoint. My biggest issue with Courier is with the author. At one point, he blocked me from accessing his web pages (including the Courier pages) simply because I used SBC DSL, whom he thought was too lax about spam. Find out more about this here: http://www.spambag.org/ It's difficult to put trust in software when the author blocks you due to your ISP, especially when you have no real choice in the matter. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Sat Dec 13 13:43:23 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] searching Debian packages Message-ID: <20031213134323.A9372@thinkunix.net> Ok, so the Debian packages search site[1] has been down almost a month now because of a security exploit. Being a Debian newbie, where else can I look to see what packages are available if I don't know their names? 'dpkg -p ' only works if I know the name of the package. [1] http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages#search_packages -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Dec 13 14:02:59 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] searching Debian packages In-Reply-To: <20031213134323.A9372@thinkunix.net> References: <20031213134323.A9372@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3FDB7073.2010706@visi.com> It has been a long time in technology terms that the site has been down, or did they forget to put it back in place? Any Debian insiders have any information? Sam. Scot Jenkins wrote: >Ok, so the Debian packages search site[1] has been down almost a month now >because of a security exploit. Being a Debian newbie, where else can >I look to see what packages are available if I don't know their names? >'dpkg -p ' only works if I know the name of the package. > >[1] http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages#search_packages > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Sat Dec 13 15:04:29 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] searching Debian packages In-Reply-To: <20031213134323.A9372@thinkunix.net> References: <20031213134323.A9372@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20031213210429.GA21555@therub.org> On Sat, Dec 13, 2003 at 01:43:23PM -0600, Scot Jenkins wrote: > Ok, so the Debian packages search site[1] has been down almost a month now > because of a security exploit. Being a Debian newbie, where else can > I look to see what packages are available if I don't know their names? > 'dpkg -p ' only works if I know the name of the package. Check out dselect or aptitude. I like dselect, but it's considered a little old school, and it can get you in trouble if you're too quick on the keyboard. I saw a guy, and I still don't know how he did it, but he hit uninstall and dselect uninstalled every package on his computer, including dselect itself. dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Sat Dec 13 14:07:47 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] searching Debian packages In-Reply-To: <20031213134323.A9372@thinkunix.net> References: <20031213134323.A9372@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20031213200747.GN28031@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sat Dec 13 15:00:31 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] searching Debian packages In-Reply-To: <20031213200747.GN28031@iucha.net> References: <20031213134323.A9372@thinkunix.net> <20031213200747.GN28031@iucha.net> Message-ID: <1071349230.1697.524.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Sat Dec 13 07:02:35 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] searching Debian packages In-Reply-To: <20031213134323.A9372@thinkunix.net> References: <20031213134323.A9372@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20031213130235.GA10823@duron.turboland.com> apt-cache search finds this stuff in a pkg list located at: /var/lib/apt/lists/ There are other package resources in /var/ at various spots: /var/lib/dpkg/ /var/lib/dpkg/info /var/cache/apt/archives/ At one point I found myself looking at dpkg source, only to find a lot of C++ code that was incomprehensible to my pea sized brain. Then I came to my senses and used strace to just see what these tools do. For example: strace apt-cache search snort 2>&1 | less strace dpkg -l 2>&1 | less strace -f dpkg -l 2>&1 | less Thanks Mike for the note on apt-file, I wasn't aware of that one. Just tried it, and you do a apt-file update, which grabs this Contents-.gz file and can search on it. It's a big cross reference of file-locations and pkg names. I'm interested in collecting my .deb collection, for reuse on other machines. Whenever you do an apt-get install pkgname, the .deb file gets saved in /var/cache/apt/archive. So say at home I get an install that I like. I could burn a CDROM with .deb files, take it to another machine, and install these. I've done some of this using dpkg-scanpackages. Then add a line to etc/apt/sources.list like: deb file:///mydeb binary/ The biggest problem I ran into was that I want to use this private collection, and also the normal debian collections, favouring the private collection. So I still want this in my sources.list: deb ftp://ftp.cs.unm.edu/mirrors/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib You can use something called apt-pinning to mix and match multiple standard collections(/etc/apt/preferences): Package: * Pin: release a=stable PinPriority: 700 Package: * Pin: release a=unstable PinPriority: 300 The PinPriority tells apt-get install which one to use by default. Then if you want to install something from unstable: apt-get install pkgname/unstable After some googling, looks like my problem might be solved by making a "Release" file to go with my .deb collection and "Packages.gz" file. Well, thats enough chatter from me. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Sat Dec 13 20:42:46 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (natecars@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Covad, servers, etc. In-Reply-To: <3FDA6E3D.6000206@cleosci.com> References: <4104.204.220.62.130.1038254947.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> <3FDA6E3D.6000206@cleosci.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, gkrueger wrote: > Here's my question: has anyone on the list used Covad DSL to host a > web-visible server (e.g. webserver, MX server)? A friend of mine ran a very small web hosting company on Covad DSL; worked great. He was on their ADSL service. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From pcrissman at lwcc.org Sat Dec 13 15:31:20 2003 From: pcrissman at lwcc.org (Phil Crissman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rackmount parts In-Reply-To: <1071268948.3fda4454a7269@mail.bitstream.net> References: <1071268948.3fda4454a7269@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <1071351080.23089.71.camel@localhost> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Sat Dec 13 22:59:27 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? In-Reply-To: <20031212195627.GA5753@therub.org> References: <20031212181345.GJ28940@faculty.cns.uni.edu> <20031212195627.GA5753@therub.org> Message-ID: <1071377967.29558.30.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Sat Dec 13 23:31:27 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Courier Mail Server In-Reply-To: <152469314829.20031212212542@toughguy.net> References: <152469314829.20031212212542@toughguy.net> Message-ID: <1071379887.29558.33.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Sun Dec 14 10:46:06 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fun with kernel panics Message-ID: <20031214104606.A22282@baker.space.umn.edu> Hi, Yesterday I tried to put a DVD burner and an extra hard drive into ai Debian testing box, and I have been getting kernel panics ever since. I think that the panic is happening right when the sytem is trying to mount the root filesystem. The last few lines I see are: EXT3-fs: mounted filesytem with order data mode exec: 217:chroot not found kernel panic: attempted to kill init Since then I have tried a number of things to fix the problem. I have returned the hardware to the original configuration. I have tried booting other older kernels on the same box. No luck. I did change the kernel on this box a couple of weeks ago, but it booted fine then. I am suspicious that my problem relates to this, but that wouldn't explain why my old kernel s don't work either. It boots fine under Knoppix and I have played around a bit. My disks fsck fine. I can run lilo OK and I get no errors. At this point, I really don't know what to try next. Any suggestions? -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Sun Dec 14 01:29:19 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fun with kernel panics In-Reply-To: <20031214104606.A22282@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <20031214104606.A22282@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20031214072919.GA563@duron.turboland.com> On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 10:46:06AM -0600, Jim Crumley wrote: > Hi, > > Yesterday I tried to put a DVD burner and an extra hard drive > into ai Debian testing box, and I have been getting kernel panics > ever since. I think that the panic is happening right when the > sytem is trying to mount the root filesystem. The last few lines > I see are: > > EXT3-fs: mounted filesytem with order data mode > exec: 217:chroot not found > kernel panic: attempted to kill init This looks like your init-ramdisk is somehow busted. Like init-rd unpacks, figures out it's real root is EXT3-fs, then tries to mount it as root and chroot to it, but can't find chroot. Debian seems to use these init-rd things by default. This allows for most root fs support to be compiled as modules, with only init-rd root filesystem in as a non-module. It initially boots into this small init-rd root fs, then through the magic of scripting can figure out and load the kernel modules to support your real root fs. I'm not so good at compiling kernels the "debian" way yet, but I'm sure this would involve producing a matching init-rd.img. Then you have to configure your boot loader to use it. I have always avoided using init-rd with my custom kernels. Or if you do compile a custom kernel and use a ext3 fs, I'd recommend building ext3 directly into the kernel as apposed to a module so that you are not dependent on init-rd. Are you using LILO or GRUB? Do you have your kernels matched up with cooresponding init-rd.img? Did you build your kernel with ext3 built in so you could tell your bootloader to boot without the init-rds? > Since then I have tried a number of things to fix the problem. I > have returned the hardware to the original configuration. I have > tried booting other older kernels on the same box. No luck. > > I did change the kernel on this box a couple of weeks ago, but it > booted fine then. I am suspicious that my problem relates to > this, but that wouldn't explain why my old kernel s don't work > either. > > It boots fine under Knoppix and I have played around a bit. My > disks fsck fine. I can run lilo OK and I get no errors. > > At this point, I really don't know what to try next. Any > suggestions? > > -- > Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) > crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ > Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From myok at ogzr.org Sun Dec 14 18:51:33 2003 From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <3FD9F8C6.2040609@visi.com> References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB914@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> <1071248471.1168.7.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> <3FD9F8C6.2040609@visi.com> Message-ID: <1071449493.12698.0.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> Gak, didn't read the list again till Sunday evening, so I missed your detail schedule. Do you have an idea on whether Monday or Tuesday after 6 p.m. would work? -- Carl On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 11:20, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > You mean I get to get rid of some hardware! :-D > > Sure stop by. > If you use MapQuest for the map be careful. The Map they use is old. > Highway 7 has changed use the exit and go left and left again up Mill Street > > 532 Wheeler Drive > Excelsior, MN. 55331 > > Phone 952-470-9224 > > Times: > Any time before 4:30 PM today > Tomorrow all day > Saturday all day except 10:00 AM - 1:30 PM > Sunday all day > Monday is to far in the future to predict. > > Sam > > >They'd fit in the IBM dual-processor Pentium Pro system I gave to a friend a year or two ago. > >The processors were two steppings apart, so SMP under Linux was unstable at best, but configured as a > >boring old single-CPU system, it's been rock solid. > > > >If you want to part with the DIMMS, send me an e-mail and I can drop by. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Carl Patten _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Dec 14 22:04:31 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory [classified] In-Reply-To: <1071449493.12698.0.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB914@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> <1071248471.1168.7.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> <3FD9F8C6.2040609@visi.com> <1071449493.12698.0.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> Message-ID: <3FDD32CF.4050000@visi.com> Tuesday after 6:00 PM would be fine. Carl Patten wrote: >Gak, didn't read the list again till Sunday evening, so I missed your >detail schedule. Do you have an idea on whether Monday or Tuesday after >6 p.m. would work? > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Dec 15 10:02:11 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fun with kernel panics In-Reply-To: <20031214072919.GA563@duron.turboland.com> References: <20031214104606.A22282@baker.space.umn.edu> <20031214072919.GA563@duron.turboland.com> Message-ID: <20031215100211.A22418@baker.space.umn.edu> On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 01:29:19AM -0600, Karl Bongers wrote: > On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 10:46:06AM -0600, Jim Crumley wrote: > > EXT3-fs: mounted filesytem with order data mode > > exec: 217:chroot not found > > kernel panic: attempted to kill init > > This looks like your init-ramdisk is somehow busted. Like > init-rd unpacks, figures out it's real root is EXT3-fs, then tries > to mount it as root and chroot to it, but can't find chroot. > > Debian seems to use these init-rd things by default. > This allows for most root fs support to be compiled as > modules, with only init-rd root filesystem in as a non-module. > It initially boots into this small init-rd root fs, then > through the magic of scripting can figure out and load the kernel > modules to support your real root fs. > > I'm not so good at compiling kernels the "debian" way yet, > but I'm sure this would involve producing a matching init-rd.img. > Then you have to configure your boot loader to use it. I usually don't use initrd either, but I have been a bit lazy on this box and just compiled the past two kernels based on Debian's .config with a couple of changes. I did it this way because I am still adding hardware to this box, and so I wanted to have modules for everything available. > I have always avoided using init-rd with my custom kernels. > Or if you do compile a custom kernel and use a ext3 fs, I'd > recommend building ext3 directly into the kernel as apposed > to a module so that you are not dependent on init-rd. > > Are you using LILO or GRUB? > Do you have your kernels matched up with cooresponding init-rd.img? > Did you build your kernel with ext3 built in so you could tell > your bootloader to boot without the init-rds? I am using lilo, also, because I hadn't gotten around to chaning to grub yet on this box. I didn't build ext3 in, which was really bone-headed. Its quite possible that the initrd is the problem, but I am not sure why it failed on two previously working kernel at once. Also, my last backup kernel did not have an initrd, and it wouldn't boot either. Thanks for the ideas, but I got frustrated enough yesterday that I reinstalled on a spare partition. Kind of irratating, since I have boxes that I have had for years that I have never re-installed on, but so be it. I am still in the process of copying over some of the configs, but at least I am not stuck in Knoppix anymore. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Sk3tch at sk3tch.net Mon Dec 15 10:58:08 2003 From: Sk3tch at sk3tch.net (Sk3tch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recommended DVD Burning GUIs/Apps? Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From superbeast at evilcricket.com Mon Dec 15 11:30:20 2003 From: superbeast at evilcricket.com (kevin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: electronics Message-ID: hello- Sorry for the OT post, but I was wondering if there are any "electronics" clubs in the area - something like the old homebrew computer club from the 70's (or anything similar). if not, would anyone be interested in starting something? you can email me off list: superbeast@evilcricket.com thanks _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Dec 15 12:53:44 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question Message-ID: <20031215125344.00003d2a.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> I'm new to slackware, so this should be easy. Oddly though I cannot find this one on google. Is it ok to remove stuff from /var/log/removed_packages to free up a little space or is this needed for some reason? Thx, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Mon Dec 15 13:18:27 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question In-Reply-To: <20031215125344.00003d2a.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <000001c3c340$38c12090$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> Well, I don't know, but I would just try moving the directory somewhere else. Go for a bit, and if it's okay, move on. If not, you can move it back. Perhaps you should wait for a more qualified answer, though. Not everyone enjoys reinstalling operating systems. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Josh Trutwin > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:54 > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question > > > I'm new to slackware, so this should be easy. Oddly though I > cannot find this one on google. > > Is it ok to remove stuff from /var/log/removed_packages to > free up a little space or is this needed for some reason? > > Thx, > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Dec 15 13:48:16 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl @inc problem Message-ID: Raymond, You can usually force a change to a particular installation of perl by invoking that installation's perl binary, like: /usr/bin/perl -MCPAN -e shell or: /usr/local/bin/perl -MCPAN -e shell for CPAN installs, and for manual installations: /usr/bin/perl Makefile.PL make make install or: /usr/local/bin/perl Makefile.PL make make install If you just use 'perl -MCPAN -e shell' then your current '$PATH' will dictate which installation is being updated (if '/usr/bin' comes first, 5.8.0 is updated). One thing you will want to do, if you want to maintain two Perls (which you may not wish to do because it is more complicated) is make the CPAN module cache, build, and install modules in a different place for each Perl installation. On your RHL9 you have two configuration files that need the different locations in them: /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/CPAN/Config.pm /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.2/CPAN/Config.pm Make backup copies of each one, then modify: /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.2/CPAN/Config.pm and replace the text: /root/.cpan with: /root/.cpan-local and then: mkdir /root/.cpan-local If you want to disable the '/usr/local' installation of Perl, I would probably try and move '/usr/local/bin/perl' to '/usr/local/bin/perl-5.8.2' or something. It should be outside of your '$PATH' then. If that doesn't work, or need something that depends on it, you can move it back. Good luck, Troy >>> admin@lctn.org 12/04/03 11:45AM >>> Looks like I have 2 versions of perl, 5.8.0 is located in /usr/bin, and 5.8.2 is in /usr/local/bin. This is causing a problem when installing per modules manually and with CPAN. Everything ends up in /usr/local/bin ( the 5.8.2 install), so I am getting the following errors when I try to call Apache::PrettyPerl, "Can't locate Apache/PrettyPerl.pm in @INC ( @INC contains : /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/etc" Is there a way to force all modules to install to /usr/lib/perl5/perl5.8.0, or at least include the new perl libraries when launching a script? I tried changing the perl path on the two new scripts I am calling from #! /usr/bin/perl to #! /usr/local/bin/perl, but to no avail. Thanks in advance Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at solobanjo.com Mon Dec 15 13:57:17 2003 From: tclug at solobanjo.com (Benjamin Flaming) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question In-Reply-To: <20031215125344.00003d2a.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031215125344.00003d2a.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <200312151357.17663.tclug@solobanjo.com> AFAICT, the files in this directory are just listings of files which have been removed from your system when you installed particular packages. This could be useful information if your system can't find a particular file which you formerly had, and you need to know which package it was part of. I doubt that any harm would come from removing the files in this directory, but I don't really see the benefit. It shouldn't take up more than a couple of megabytes, and if you're that strapped for space, there are probably better solutions ;) |) |)enji On Monday 15 December 2003 12:53 pm, Josh Trutwin wrote: > I'm new to slackware, so this should be easy. Oddly though I cannot find > this one on google. > > Is it ok to remove stuff from /var/log/removed_packages to free up a little > space or is this needed for some reason? > > Thx, > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Dec 15 14:06:08 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: electronics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2383.156.99.116.45.1071518768.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> > Sorry for the OT post, but I was wondering if there are any "electronics" > clubs in the area - something like the old homebrew computer club from the > 70's (or anything similar). You might want to check into local ham radio clubs. Usually you'll find a mix of computer, electronics, weather, and a generally odd assortment of geeks. http://www.visi.com/~gwolfe/radio/links.shtml has a list of local clubs and other ham radio thingies. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at solobanjo.com Mon Dec 15 14:20:02 2003 From: tclug at solobanjo.com (Benjamin Flaming) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question In-Reply-To: <200312151357.17663.tclug@solobanjo.com> References: <20031215125344.00003d2a.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <200312151357.17663.tclug@solobanjo.com> Message-ID: <200312151420.02727.tclug@solobanjo.com> On Monday 15 December 2003 01:57 pm, Benjamin Flaming wrote: > AFAICT, the files in this directory are just listings of files which > have been removed from your system when you installed particular packages. Or, rather, when you *uninstalled* particular packages....ooops. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Mon Dec 15 14:24:19 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:43 2005 Subject: Disk space usage (Was RE: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question) In-Reply-To: <200312151357.17663.tclug@solobanjo.com> Message-ID: <000101c3c349$6c1acaf0$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> I'm curious to know what applications or programs are available (command-line, preferably, but GUI works too) that will show used disk-space by directory, similar to what can be had in Windows Explorer. I know of df, but AFAICT that only shows information by partition. Not very helpful if you're trying to find or prune something like Gentoo's source and compilation cache to free some space. Thanks, John > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Flaming > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 13:57 > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question > > > AFAICT, the files in this directory are just listings of > files which have > been removed from your system when you installed particular > packages. This > could be useful information if your system can't find a > particular file which > you formerly had, and you need to know which package it was part of. > > I doubt that any harm would come from removing the files in this > directory, but I don't really see the benefit. It shouldn't > take up more > than a couple of megabytes, and if you're that strapped for > space, there are > probably better solutions ;) > > |) > |)enji > > > On Monday 15 December 2003 12:53 pm, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > I'm new to slackware, so this should be easy. Oddly though > I cannot > > find this one on google. > > > > Is it ok to remove stuff from /var/log/removed_packages to > free up a > > little space or is this needed for some reason? > > > > Thx, > > > > Josh > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Dec 15 14:42:56 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:43 2005 Subject: Disk space usage (Was RE: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question) In-Reply-To: <000101c3c349$6c1acaf0$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> References: <000101c3c349$6c1acaf0$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> Message-ID: <20031215144225.I24187@unix18.sihope.com> du More helpfully: du | sort -rn Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications On Mon, 15 Dec 2003, John Hoffoss wrote: > I'm curious to know what applications or programs are available > (command-line, preferably, but GUI works too) that will show used disk-space > by directory, similar to what can be had in Windows Explorer. I know of df, > but AFAICT that only shows information by partition. Not very helpful if > you're trying to find or prune something like Gentoo's source and > compilation cache to free some space. > > Thanks, > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Flaming > > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 13:57 > > To: TCLUG Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question > > > > > > AFAICT, the files in this directory are just listings of > > files which have > > been removed from your system when you installed particular > > packages. This > > could be useful information if your system can't find a > > particular file which > > you formerly had, and you need to know which package it was part of. > > > > I doubt that any harm would come from removing the files in this > > directory, but I don't really see the benefit. It shouldn't > > take up more > > than a couple of megabytes, and if you're that strapped for > > space, there are > > probably better solutions ;) > > > > |) > > |)enji > > > > > > On Monday 15 December 2003 12:53 pm, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > > I'm new to slackware, so this should be easy. Oddly though > > I cannot > > > find this one on google. > > > > > > Is it ok to remove stuff from /var/log/removed_packages to > > free up a > > > little space or is this needed for some reason? > > > > > > Thx, > > > > > > Josh > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at solobanjo.com Mon Dec 15 14:41:06 2003 From: tclug at solobanjo.com (Benjamin Flaming) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:43 2005 Subject: Disk space usage (Was RE: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question) In-Reply-To: <000101c3c349$6c1acaf0$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> References: <000101c3c349$6c1acaf0$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> Message-ID: <200312151441.06645.tclug@solobanjo.com> I use du for this. If you want a listing of how much space the items in /usr are taking up, for instance, try: du -hs /usr/* |) |)enji On Monday 15 December 2003 02:24 pm, John Hoffoss wrote: > I'm curious to know what applications or programs are available > (command-line, preferably, but GUI works too) that will show used > disk-space by directory, similar to what can be had in Windows Explorer. I > know of df, but AFAICT that only shows information by partition. Not very > helpful if you're trying to find or prune something like Gentoo's source > and > compilation cache to free some space. > > Thanks, > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Flaming > > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 13:57 > > To: TCLUG Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question > > > > > > AFAICT, the files in this directory are just listings of > > files which have > > been removed from your system when you installed particular > > packages. This > > could be useful information if your system can't find a > > particular file which > > you formerly had, and you need to know which package it was part of. > > > > I doubt that any harm would come from removing the files in this > > directory, but I don't really see the benefit. It shouldn't > > take up more > > than a couple of megabytes, and if you're that strapped for > > space, there are > > probably better solutions ;) > > > > |) > > |)enji > > > > On Monday 15 December 2003 12:53 pm, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > > I'm new to slackware, so this should be easy. Oddly though > > > > I cannot > > > > > find this one on google. > > > > > > Is it ok to remove stuff from /var/log/removed_packages to > > > > free up a > > > > > little space or is this needed for some reason? > > > > > > Thx, > > > > > > Josh > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Dec 15 14:45:29 2003 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fun with kernel panics In-Reply-To: <20031214072919.GA563@duron.turboland.com> Message-ID: | I have always avoided using init-rd with my custom kernels. Me too. | I'm not so good at compiling kernels the "debian" way yet, | but I'm sure this would involve producing a matching init-rd.img. Debian (and other distributers) use this method so they can build a kernel that literly has everything. The only way you can really do this is using modules. If the system doesn't need it, dont' load the module. So the file systems are compiled as modules so that you can install a ext23, ext3, ReiserFS, . When you build a custom kernel, you can leave out everything you don't need. No real reason to muck around with an initrd. Things to check: Make sure adding drives didn't move your drive assignments around, or if they did, you modified your fstab and lilo configs accordingly. initrd.img might be bad, it's hard to say. You can always try a Debian insalled kernel. Could be a bug in testing. As you've done a reinstall now, I guess figuring out what's wrong is a moot point. ;) Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 15 14:55:48 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:43 2005 Subject: Disk space usage (Was RE: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question) In-Reply-To: <000101c3c349$6c1acaf0$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> References: <000101c3c349$6c1acaf0$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> Message-ID: <3FDE1FD4.6030503@visi.com> MC midnight Commander. Use (depending on the panel) Info from the Left or Right menu options. It's a real nice tool. Sam. John Hoffoss wrote: >I'm curious to know what applications or programs are available >(command-line, preferably, but GUI works too) that will show used disk-space >by directory, similar to what can be had in Windows Explorer. I know of df, >but AFAICT that only shows information by partition. Not very helpful if >you're trying to find or prune something like Gentoo's source and >compilation cache to free some space. > >Thanks, > >John > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >>[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Flaming >>Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 13:57 >>To: TCLUG Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question >> >> >> AFAICT, the files in this directory are just listings of >>files which have >>been removed from your system when you installed particular >>packages. This >>could be useful information if your system can't find a >>particular file which >>you formerly had, and you need to know which package it was part of. >> >> I doubt that any harm would come from removing the files in this >>directory, but I don't really see the benefit. It shouldn't >>take up more >>than a couple of megabytes, and if you're that strapped for >>space, there are >>probably better solutions ;) >> >>|) >>|)enji >> >> >>On Monday 15 December 2003 12:53 pm, Josh Trutwin wrote: >> >> >>>I'm new to slackware, so this should be easy. Oddly though >>> >>> >>I cannot >> >> >>>find this one on google. >>> >>>Is it ok to remove stuff from /var/log/removed_packages to >>> >>> >>free up a >> >> >>>little space or is this needed for some reason? >>> >>>Thx, >>> >>>Josh >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> >> >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at cdf123.com Mon Dec 15 15:14:35 2003 From: cdf123 at cdf123.com (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:43 2005 Subject: Disk space usage (Was RE: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question) In-Reply-To: <20031215144225.I24187@unix18.sihope.com> References: <000101c3c349$6c1acaf0$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> <20031215144225.I24187@unix18.sihope.com> Message-ID: <3FDE243B.4070202@cdf123.com> Add this line to your ~/.bashrc file alias ducks='du -cks * | sort -rn | head -11' then cd to the directory you want the size of, and type ducks. This is a handy little command that shows the 10 largest files/directories in your current directory. Here's my home directory for example: $ ducks 1764048 total 1097320 win 219548 mydata 50932 devcd 41064 the_two_towers-tlr_fs.l.mov 32500 linux-2.6.0-test10.tar.bz2 32484 linux-2.6.0-test9.tar.bz2 25936 Debt_Minder_Installer.bin 21708 GimpUsersManual_SecondEdition-HTML_Search.tar.gz 18840 q2-3.20-x86-full-ctf.exe 15196 lxg-tlr2_m480.mov This is very useful when you want to free up some disk space. Chris Frederick Adam Maloney wrote: >du > >More helpfully: > >du | sort -rn > >Adam Maloney >Systems Administrator >Sihope Communications >On Mon, 15 Dec 2003, John Hoffoss wrote: > > > >>I'm curious to know what applications or programs are available >>(command-line, preferably, but GUI works too) that will show used disk-space >>by directory, similar to what can be had in Windows Explorer. I know of df, >>but AFAICT that only shows information by partition. Not very helpful if >>you're trying to find or prune something like Gentoo's source and >>compilation cache to free some space. >> >>Thanks, >> >>John >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Dec 15 16:42:23 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question In-Reply-To: <200312151357.17663.tclug@solobanjo.com> References: <20031215125344.00003d2a.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <200312151357.17663.tclug@solobanjo.com> Message-ID: <20031215164223.00005451.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> > I doubt that any harm would come from removing the files in this > directory, but I don't really see the benefit. It shouldn't take up more > than a couple of megabytes, and if you're that strapped for space, there are > probably better solutions ;) Yeah it was only a couple megabytes, guess I'll space hunt elsewhere. I'm not overly concerned, but I'm at about 80% disk and there are a couple apps I want to install yet on this thing. I tried going with a lighter WM like blackbox or Windowmaker, but I'm having too many odd font issues (and yes I ran fc-cache). I still cannot display any text on GDM or on the prompt that comes up when I try to log out of gnome, not sure what that's all about, otherwise it's a pretty sweet distro. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Mon Dec 15 17:59:15 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: electronics In-Reply-To: <2383.156.99.116.45.1071518768.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> References: <2383.156.99.116.45.1071518768.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> Message-ID: <20031215175915.7292ea9a.william.layer@comcast.net> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:06:08 -0600 (CST) "Brian" wrote: > > Sorry for the OT post, but I was wondering if there are any "electronics" > > clubs in the area - something like the old homebrew computer club from the > > 70's (or anything similar). > > You might want to check into local ham radio clubs. Usually you'll find a > mix of computer, electronics, weather, and a generally odd assortment of > geeks. I'm always up for anything involving vacuum tubes, analog audio, voltages above 400DC, and general home-brewed danger. Lots of experience building electronics from scratch, and a little (analog) design as well.. Can we make a big tesla coil? One that uses tubes? -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Mon Dec 15 20:24:23 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: electronics In-Reply-To: <20031215175915.7292ea9a.william.layer@comcast.net> References: <2383.156.99.116.45.1071518768.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> <20031215175915.7292ea9a.william.layer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031216022423.GC3807@techmonkeys.org> On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 05:59:15PM -0600, Bill Layer wrote: > Can we make a big tesla coil? One that uses tubes? Ah, sounds like a child on christmas day with his first high voltage experiment kit! =) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Mon Dec 15 20:30:18 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:44 2005 Subject: Disk space usage (Was RE: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question) In-Reply-To: <000101c3c349$6c1acaf0$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> References: <200312151357.17663.tclug@solobanjo.com> <000101c3c349$6c1acaf0$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> Message-ID: <1161.192.168.70.42.1071541818.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Try "du -sk" This will tell you the size of the current directory and all of the subs under it. "man du" for many more options. > I'm curious to know what applications or programs are available > (command-line, preferably, but GUI works too) that will show used > disk-space by directory, similar to what can be had in Windows Explorer. > I know of df, but AFAICT that only shows information by partition. Not > very helpful if you're trying to find or prune something like Gentoo's > source and > compilation cache to free some space. > > Thanks, > > John > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Flaming >> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 13:57 >> To: TCLUG Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question >> >> >> AFAICT, the files in this directory are just listings of >> files which have >> been removed from your system when you installed particular >> packages. This >> could be useful information if your system can't find a >> particular file which >> you formerly had, and you need to know which package it was part of. >> >> I doubt that any harm would come from removing the files in this >> directory, but I don't really see the benefit. It shouldn't >> take up more >> than a couple of megabytes, and if you're that strapped for >> space, there are >> probably better solutions ;) >> >> |) >> |)enji >> >> >> On Monday 15 December 2003 12:53 pm, Josh Trutwin wrote: >> > I'm new to slackware, so this should be easy. Oddly though >> I cannot >> > find this one on google. >> > >> > Is it ok to remove stuff from /var/log/removed_packages to >> free up a >> > little space or is this needed for some reason? >> > >> > Thx, >> > >> > Josh >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Mon Dec 15 20:35:37 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Mike J.) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question In-Reply-To: <20031215164223.00005451.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031215125344.00003d2a.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <200312151357.17663.tclug@solobanjo.com> <20031215164223.00005451.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <3FDE6F79.6090203@jentges.NET> Josh Trutwin wrote: >I still cannot display any text on GDM or on the prompt that comes up >when I try to log out of gnome, not sure what that's all about, >otherwise it's a pretty sweet distro. To be clear, you realize these are Gnome, XFree86 issues right? Nothing to do with the fact that you're using Slackware, per se. :) Your Friendly Neighborhood Slackh0, -mj P.S. By some wild chance are you using SiS video hardware? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Dec 15 22:55:16 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GDM Fonts [WAS: Simple slackware question] In-Reply-To: <3FDE6F79.6090203@jentges.NET> References: <20031215125344.00003d2a.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <200312151357.17663.tclug@solobanjo.com> <20031215164223.00005451.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <3FDE6F79.6090203@jentges.NET> Message-ID: <20031215225516.00005ee7.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:35:37 -0600 "Mike J." wrote: > >I still cannot display any text on GDM or on the prompt that comes up > >when I try to log out of gnome, not sure what that's all about, > >otherwise it's a pretty sweet distro. > > To be clear, you realize these are Gnome, XFree86 issues right? > Nothing to do with the fact that you're using Slackware, per se. :) Yup. > P.S. By some wild chance are you using SiS video hardware? I'm honestly not sure and I cannot seem to find that information out. Is there anything in /proc or a xinfo command or anything? (I could do this one in SuSE, not Slack, yet.) Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Tue Dec 16 00:55:11 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (tanner@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: kde.com hijacked? Message-ID: <20031216065511.GA1110@real-time.com> Anyone now anything about kde.com? The entire domain points to a domain name squatter service now. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Dec 16 02:05:19 2003 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: kde.com hijacked? In-Reply-To: <20031216065511.GA1110@real-time.com> References: <20031216065511.GA1110@real-time.com> Message-ID: kde.org seems to work... (; On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 tanner@real-time.com wrote: > Anyone now anything about kde.com? > > The entire domain points to a domain name squatter service now. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Tue Dec 16 14:56:41 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recover FAT ? Message-ID: Hi all- My neighbor's win98 machine (which I built out of spare parts) took a dump - initial triage seems to indicate that the FAT table was wiped out ... I brought the box home to my shop and was about to install the "bad" drive in my linux box to see if I can see or repair the FAT table - anyone ever do something like this? Use linux to recover and save Windows' bacon? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at igi.com Tue Dec 16 10:16:56 2003 From: jasonj at igi.com (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Covad, servers, etc. In-Reply-To: <3FDA6E3D.6000206@cleosci.com> References: <4104.204.220.62.130.1038254947.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> <3FDA6E3D.6000206@cleosci.com> Message-ID: <3FDF2FF8.3000502@igi.com> I use speakeasy and they use covad as the underlying telco. I looked at the covad ISP packages a while back and they seem quite similar to speakeasy. I have been using speakeasy for years hosting my domains. I vote for covad and speakeasy :) Qworst does not get my vote. gkrueger wrote: > Hey All: > > I just signed up for Covad DSL -- 30 day risk-free trial supposedly. > Here's my question: has anyone on the list used Covad DSL to host a > web-visible server (e.g. webserver, MX server)? I ordered the service > with the static IP's, and it is my intention to host both a webserver > and a mailserver (LINUX), but their FAQ's (at least what I've seen so > far) are not terrible helpful in this area other than to point out > that they don't support LINUX specifically with their flavor of PPPoE. > > Obviously, this is a non-issue with Qwest, but Qworst hasn't figured > out how to get their DSL into my neighborhood yet :( > > Thanks for any insight you have! > > Garrett > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 16 12:24:15 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recover FAT ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FDF4DCF.2090406@visi.com> I've done that for NTFS and FAT but not using Linux, using NT, W98, and DOS. The machine wont boot I take it, try booting with the W98 boot diskette, then run, fdisk /mbr, this will put the master boot record back in place, turn the machine off and on to see if it boots from hard disk. Several virus's will put the screws to the master boot record. The ones I know of get carried by diskette a lot When booted from a diskette by accedent. It doesen't even need to be a boot disk. If you get the machine running scan it for viruses and scan every diskette in the guys house. Tell him _not_ to leave diskette in the drive EVER. Sam. Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Hi all- > > My neighbor's win98 machine (which I built out of spare parts) took a > dump - initial triage seems to indicate that the FAT table was wiped > out ... > > I brought the box home to my shop and was about to install the "bad" > drive in my linux box to see if I can see or repair the FAT table - > anyone ever do something like this? Use linux to recover and save > Windows' bacon? > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Tue Dec 16 12:22:10 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recover FAT ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01c3c401$8674f890$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> I was just in a conversation with a friend about this; apparently FAT16/32 stores the FAT in several locations and is recoverable. So he had heard to people able to do it, and he was going to do so for a friend, but his own drive died before he got around to it. So you have one fourth-hand "it can be done...somehow" Hope that helps a little... John > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Johnny Fulcrum > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 14:57 > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Recover FAT ? > > > Hi all- > > My neighbor's win98 machine (which I built out of spare > parts) took a dump > - initial triage seems to indicate that the FAT table was > wiped out ... > > I brought the box home to my shop and was about to install > the "bad" drive > in my linux box to see if I can see or repair the FAT table - > anyone ever > do something like this? Use linux to recover and save Windows' bacon? > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Tue Dec 16 12:31:13 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GDM Fonts [WAS: Simple slackware question] In-Reply-To: <20031215225516.00005ee7.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <000c01c3c402$cb666550$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> >From the sound of this, the issue is that text displayed in GDM/Gnome is tiny/unreadable. Based on this assumption, my guess is you have anti-aliased fonts turned on. I've had this issue on several computers. For some reason, when you enable AA fonts, it shrinks everything to ~1 pixel in height. There is a config file somewhere (and I can never remember where) that allows you to specify your display dpi, and after that it works fine. It might be the XF86config file... There's info on this here: http://patriot.net/~scoile/fonts/fixing-2.html but this is for XDM, and I don't recall a similar config file for GDM. Or perhaps I lied: http://www.mozilla.org/unix/dpi.html this makes it sound like this is for GDM under RH, but I doubt that is the case. Found another link that references a GDM config file, http://mail.gnome.org/archives/garnome-list/2002-September/msg00310.html so these last two links are what you should look at, I think. That is, of course, assuming this is what your issue surrounds. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Josh Trutwin > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 22:55 > To: mike@JentgeS.NeT; TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] GDM Fonts [WAS: Simple slackware question] > > > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:35:37 -0600 > "Mike J." wrote: > > > > >I still cannot display any text on GDM or on the prompt > that comes > > up > > >when I try to log out of gnome, not sure what that's all about, > > >otherwise it's a pretty sweet distro. > > > > To be clear, you realize these are Gnome, XFree86 issues right? > > Nothing to do with the fact that you're using Slackware, per se. :) > > Yup. > > > P.S. By some wild chance are you using SiS video hardware? > > I'm honestly not sure and I cannot seem to find that > information out. Is there anything in /proc or a xinfo > command or anything? (I could do this one in SuSE, not Slack, yet.) > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Tue Dec 16 12:36:42 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recover FAT ? In-Reply-To: <3FDF4DCF.2090406@visi.com> Message-ID: <000d01c3c403$8da6a300$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> The MBR is different than the FAT, so running fdisk /mbr may not do anything. Unless of course it's the MBR that is hosed and not the FAT. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Samuel MacDonald > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:24 > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Recover FAT ? > > > I've done that for NTFS and FAT but not using Linux, using > NT, W98, and DOS. > > The machine wont boot I take it, try booting with the W98 > boot diskette, > then run, fdisk /mbr, this will put the master boot record back in > place, turn the machine off and on to see if it boots from hard disk. > > Several virus's will put the screws to the master boot > record. The ones > I know of get carried by diskette a lot When booted from a > diskette by > accedent. It doesen't even need to be a boot disk. If you get the > machine running scan it for viruses and scan every diskette > in the guys > house. Tell him _not_ to leave diskette in the drive EVER. > > Sam. > > Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > > > Hi all- > > > > My neighbor's win98 machine (which I built out of spare > parts) took a > > dump - initial triage seems to indicate that the FAT table > was wiped > > out ... > > > > I brought the box home to my shop and was about to install the "bad" > > drive in my linux box to see if I can see or repair the FAT table - > > anyone ever do something like this? Use linux to recover and save > > Windows' bacon? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Tue Dec 16 13:04:49 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apache 2.0.47 question Message-ID: <031f01c3c407$7aef63b0$320b0b0a@DELL2> I run a content filter at a number of schools. When a site is banned the user gets a .pl page to fill out on my server explaining why they think the site should not be blocked. I get an email of their comments each time the form is submitted. Lately, some people with too much time on their hands are bringing the page up from my web site and sending me some cute, simple minded messages. Is there something I can add to httpd.conf that will only allow the page to be pulled up if it is requested from a specific IP or network? Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Tue Dec 16 13:20:11 2003 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recover FAT ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think gpart (http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/user/76201/gpart/) is the tool you're looking for. I've never had to do it myself though. :) Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 16 13:26:43 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recover FAT ? In-Reply-To: <000d01c3c403$8da6a300$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> References: <000d01c3c403$8da6a300$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> Message-ID: <3FDF5C73.2040908@visi.com> Notice I said "The machine wont boot I take it". Master Boot Record is very neat, it sits above the 'Boot Record", and the Boot Record sits above the File Allocation Table (FAT). Then you have your data area that sites under the FAT. The problem with FAT is it stores things without much care as to how many parts it ends up in and the clusters are very large. If to many clusters are physically damaged the disk stops working. I have set of Hard Disk platters that had a head crash happen to the top platter, it has a groove where the head made contact with the platter. Really Cool! I've installed Linux on a drive, deleted the partition, formated it FAT with the "/s" switch to place the DOS system on it, and Lilo starts the boot process. Until, I use the command from a floppy disk, fdisk /mbr. Then, the machine starts DOS just fine, I did it yesterday for a guy, Linux was just to much for him. If it isn't the master boot record a fat partition is toast without recovery software or call Ontrack. Google for "Recover FAT Table" you will have many choices of software. Ontrack will cost much more then the software. Depending on what the guy had on his computer it may be easier to just start over. But down load and run some utilities form the hard disk manufacturer to check the disk first. If the disk is really scrambled get a new one. Sam. John Hoffoss wrote: >The MBR is different than the FAT, so running fdisk /mbr may not do >anything. Unless of course it's the MBR that is hosed and not the FAT. > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >>[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Samuel MacDonald >>Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:24 >>To: TCLUG Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Recover FAT ? >> >> >>I've done that for NTFS and FAT but not using Linux, using >>NT, W98, and DOS. >> >>The machine wont boot I take it, try booting with the W98 >>boot diskette, >>then run, fdisk /mbr, this will put the master boot record back in >>place, turn the machine off and on to see if it boots from hard disk. >> >>Several virus's will put the screws to the master boot >>record. The ones >>I know of get carried by diskette a lot When booted from a >>diskette by >>accedent. It doesen't even need to be a boot disk. If you get the >>machine running scan it for viruses and scan every diskette >>in the guys >>house. Tell him _not_ to leave diskette in the drive EVER. >> >>Sam. >> >>Johnny Fulcrum wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi all- >>> >>>My neighbor's win98 machine (which I built out of spare >>> >>> >>parts) took a >> >> >>>dump - initial triage seems to indicate that the FAT table >>> >>> >>was wiped >> >> >>>out ... >>> >>>I brought the box home to my shop and was about to install the "bad" >>>drive in my linux box to see if I can see or repair the FAT table - >>>anyone ever do something like this? Use linux to recover and save >>>Windows' bacon? >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> >> >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Tue Dec 16 13:37:24 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apache 2.0.47 question In-Reply-To: <031f01c3c407$7aef63b0$320b0b0a@DELL2>; from admin@lctn.org on Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 01:04:49PM -0600 References: <031f01c3c407$7aef63b0$320b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: <20031216133724.A11982@thinkunix.net> look at the "Allow from" in your httpd.conf or .htaccess file. here's an example: AllowOverride All Order deny,allow Allow from 1.2.3.4 5.6.7 only IP's 1.2.3.4 or the network 5.6.7.x are allowed access to http://domain.com/admin/ Raymond Norton wrote: > I run a content filter at a number of schools. When a site is banned the > user gets a .pl page to fill out on my server explaining why they think the > site should not be blocked. I get an email of their comments each time the > form is submitted. Lately, some people with too much time on their hands are > bringing the page up from my web site and sending me some cute, simple > minded messages. Is there something I can add to httpd.conf that will only > allow the page to be pulled up if it is requested from a specific IP or > network? > > > > Raymond > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Tue Dec 16 14:30:57 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MWG seeking procmail recipe Message-ID: Married white geek seeking help with a procmail recipe: I'm sure procmail can do what I need, but I don't know much about procmail and I couldn't locate a similar recipe online. I've got a virtual user "foo" on a system that we'll call example.com. Foo does not exist as a regular user, but all emails sent to foo@example.com get processed by a database app (Request Tracker in this case). I want all email sent to foo@example.com that contains the text "Read 180" (or "read180", "read 180", etc.) in the subject to be sent to bar@example.com instead. "Bar" is a different virtual email recipient without a system account. Any procmail gurus got an idea? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Dec 16 17:57:44 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Recover FAT ? In-Reply-To: <000b01c3c401$8674f890$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> References: <000b01c3c401$8674f890$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> Message-ID: <3FDF9BF8.4000702@comcast.net> There are some FAT recovery software tools out there. Unfortunately, they run on Windoze, so the drive would have to be added to a current Windoze machine and the recover application run on the affected drive. John Hoffoss wrote: > I was just in a conversation with a friend about this; apparently FAT16/32 > stores the FAT in several locations and is recoverable. So he had heard to > people able to do it, and he was going to do so for a friend, but his own > drive died before he got around to it. So you have one fourth-hand "it can > be done...somehow" > > Hope that helps a little... > > John > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >>[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Johnny Fulcrum >>Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 14:57 >>To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>Subject: [TCLUG] Recover FAT ? >> >> >>Hi all- >> >>My neighbor's win98 machine (which I built out of spare >>parts) took a dump >>- initial triage seems to indicate that the FAT table was >>wiped out ... >> >>I brought the box home to my shop and was about to install >>the "bad" drive >>in my linux box to see if I can see or repair the FAT table - >>anyone ever >>do something like this? Use linux to recover and save Windows' bacon? >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sgrobe at mn.rr.com Tue Dec 16 18:20:55 2003 From: sgrobe at mn.rr.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what ftp daemon do you run? In-Reply-To: <1071377967.29558.30.camel@bigtime> References: <20031212181345.GJ28940@faculty.cns.uni.edu> <20031212195627.GA5753@therub.org> <1071377967.29558.30.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <3FDFA167.10003@mn.rr.com> fugu http://rsug.itd.umich.edu/software/fugu/ Callum Lerwick wrote: >I really want to eliminate plain FTP entirely. The only thing stopping >me is I can't find a free GUI SFTP client for OSX users... > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Dec 16 21:06:22 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mutt and cygwin Message-ID: <20031217030622.GA22972@tsathoggua> I was just wondering if anyone else has used mutt on Linux through a cygwin terminal. I've been doing this, and it works quite badly --- mutt doesn't seem to grok the cygwin terminal right, and gets the display all goofed up. I don't THINK that this is a cygwin problem, because the terminal works fine, and xemacs (in a cygwin terminal) also works fine. Cheers, R -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Tue Dec 16 23:10:24 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apache 2.0.47 question In-Reply-To: <031f01c3c407$7aef63b0$320b0b0a@DELL2> References: <031f01c3c407$7aef63b0$320b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: <1071637824.29558.40.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david.blevins at visi.com Tue Dec 16 23:34:03 2003 From: david.blevins at visi.com (David Blevins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mutt and cygwin In-Reply-To: <20031217030622.GA22972@tsathoggua> References: <20031217030622.GA22972@tsathoggua> Message-ID: <20031217053403.GA28712@isis.visi.com> On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 09:06:22PM -0600, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > I was just wondering if anyone else has used mutt on Linux through a > cygwin terminal. I've been doing this, and it works quite badly --- > mutt doesn't seem to grok the cygwin terminal right, and gets the > display all goofed up. I don't THINK that this is a cygwin problem, > because the terminal works fine, and xemacs (in a cygwin terminal) > also works fine. I started using putty for that exact reason. -David _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Wed Dec 17 00:22:19 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Simple slackware question In-Reply-To: <200312151357.17663.tclug@solobanjo.com> References: <20031215125344.00003d2a.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <200312151357.17663.tclug@solobanjo.com> Message-ID: <1071642139.29558.46.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel at joelschneider.net Wed Dec 17 03:57:47 2003 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mutt and cygwin In-Reply-To: <20031217030622.GA22972@tsathoggua>; from rpgoldman@real-time.com on Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 09:06:22PM -0600 References: <20031217030622.GA22972@tsathoggua> Message-ID: <20031217035747.A32187@joelschneider.net> On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 09:06:22PM -0600, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > I was just wondering if anyone else has used mutt on Linux through a > cygwin terminal. I've been doing this, and it works quite badly --- > mutt doesn't seem to grok the cygwin terminal right, and gets the > display all goofed up. I don't THINK that this is a cygwin problem, > because the terminal works fine, and xemacs (in a cygwin terminal) > also works fine. Not sure if this is any help, but here it is: http://sourceforge.net/projects/unixmail-w32/ -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net Linux makes computing fun again. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Wed Dec 17 08:51:30 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mutt and cygwin In-Reply-To: <20031217030622.GA22972@tsathoggua> References: <20031217030622.GA22972@tsathoggua> Message-ID: <3FE06D72.9070805@visi.com> I had a similar problem with Pine. The term type was getting set to cygwin when I logged into the Linux box and it looked like the terminal definition was screwed up. It looked like it was having issues with scrolling the display when a character was written into the last row-column position so pine was out of synch with what was actually on the screen. I didn't have an issue with vi, but then it usually doesn't write that far over on the last row. I checked dejanews and it seems that the Linux termcap entry has problems for the cygwin terminal and the preferred solution was to grab a more recent termcap definition (I think freebsd was the preferred one) and install it on the linux box. That seemed like a lot of work just to use pine so I just reset the terminal type to vt320 and it seems to work fine. I mostly use pine and vi but I did a quick try with emacs and that seemed fine as well. --rick Robert P. Goldman wrote: >I was just wondering if anyone else has used mutt on Linux through a >cygwin terminal. I've been doing this, and it works quite badly --- >mutt doesn't seem to grok the cygwin terminal right, and gets the >display all goofed up. I don't THINK that this is a cygwin problem, >because the terminal works fine, and xemacs (in a cygwin terminal) >also works fine. > >Cheers, >R > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Dec 17 09:10:48 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mutt and cygwin In-Reply-To: <3FE06D72.9070805@visi.com> References: <20031217030622.GA22972@tsathoggua> <3FE06D72.9070805@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031217091048.A23216@baker.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 08:51:30AM -0600, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > Robert P. Goldman wrote: > >I was just wondering if anyone else has used mutt on Linux through a > >cygwin terminal. I've been doing this, and it works quite badly --- > >mutt doesn't seem to grok the cygwin terminal right, and gets the > >display all goofed up. I don't THINK that this is a cygwin problem, > >because the terminal works fine, and xemacs (in a cygwin terminal) > >also works fine. > > I checked dejanews and it seems that the Linux termcap entry has > problems for the cygwin terminal and the preferred solution was to grab > a more recent termcap definition (I think freebsd was the preferred one) > and install it on the linux box. My solution was to get XFree working under Cygwin, and then log into other boxes with a real xterm, instead of the cygwin term. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Dec 17 09:08:38 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312171508.hBHF8ct24567@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Displays I have 4 used displays for Sale. First 19 inch Gateway EV910 $50 I'm looking at one of these Second 15 inch Sony 100 ES $30 I replace this with the EV910. Third 15 inch Shamrock $20 I replaced this with the 100ES Fourth 15 inch Packard Bell VLMF $15 I replaced this with the Shamrock http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Dec 17 09:07:53 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mezzanine Message-ID: Good morning! Has anyone used Mezzanine? If so, what do you think of it? http://www.kainx.org/mezzanine/ Thanks, Troy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Dec 17 09:13:12 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312171513.hBHFDCF24680@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Memory 64 megabyte, PC100 RAM 1 dollar per stick. If you purchased some in the last couple of weeks please let some of the other LUGers have a chance. Sam. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Dec 17 09:29:29 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mutt and cygwin In-Reply-To: <3FE06D72.9070805@visi.com> References: <20031217030622.GA22972@tsathoggua> <3FE06D72.9070805@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031217152929.GA6922@tsathoggua> On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 08:51:30AM -0600, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > I had a similar problem with Pine. The term type was getting set to > cygwin when I logged into the Linux box and it looked like the terminal > definition was screwed up. It looked like it was having issues with > scrolling the display when a character was written into the last > row-column position so pine was out of synch with what was actually on > the screen. I didn't have an issue with vi, but then it usually doesn't > write that far over on the last row. > > I checked dejanews and it seems that the Linux termcap entry has > problems for the cygwin terminal and the preferred solution was to grab > a more recent termcap definition (I think freebsd was the preferred one) > and install it on the linux box. > > That seemed like a lot of work just to use pine so I just reset the > terminal type to vt320 and it seems to work fine. I mostly use pine and > vi but I did a quick try with emacs and that seemed fine as well. This suggestion was just what I needed. Armed with this suggestion I did the following (for anyone else who has the same problem): 1. pulled terminfo.src from the ncurses website. 2. Used tic to compile a new cygwin entry: 2a. mkdir ~/.terminfo 2b. tic -e cygwin -o ~/.terminfo terminfo.src 3. Became happy. Thanks, Rick! Actually, not so hard, either, in case you want to use cygwin instead of vt320 :-) R -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Wed Dec 17 10:55:06 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apache 2.0.47 question In-Reply-To: <1071637824.29558.40.camel@bigtime> References: <031f01c3c407$7aef63b0$320b0b0a@DELL2> <1071637824.29558.40.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <3FE08A6A.5010701@comcast.net> I think people are missing the point..... This is a number of schools, with a network of "publicly" used computers, at least public in the sense that any number of students in the schools can access these computers. Unless the ".pl page" is accessible to the "outside" world, filtering by IP would not solve the problem. If the page is accessible from the outside world, then a filter to allow only IPs within the school system would be partially effective. I think the only way to solve the problem would be to implement a "log on" standard across all of the computers at all of the schools involved. Forcing the students to log on to use a computer would provide a two fold solution. First, it would get them used to proper computer security in a shared-PC environment. Second, it would allow you to "track" mischievous behavior. This is not a perfect solution, but I don't think there is a perfect solution. There is a catch. If a student fails to properly log out of their session, someone could use that session to send the mischievous messages. Even if a student didn't send the message, but failed to properly log out, they could be reprimanded for not following proper security standards. Once the message gets out that "you can be tracked down by your login", students will be less likely to cause problems, AND more aware of security measures that protect their "identity". Callum Lerwick wrote: >>I run a content filter at a number of schools. When a site is banned the >>user gets a .pl page to fill out on my server explaining why they think the >>site should not be blocked. I get an email of their comments each time the >>form is submitted. Lately, some people with too much time on their hands are >>bringing the page up from my web site and sending me some cute, simple >>minded messages. Is there something I can add to httpd.conf that will only >>allow the page to be pulled up if it is requested from a specific IP or >>network? > > > If its a script to begin with, the cleanest thing would probably be to > just add some code to the script to ignore anyone coming from the wrong > IP. Dunno how to do it in perl offhand, but the REMOTE_ADDR cgi variable > should be what you want... -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eh at constantdata.com Wed Dec 17 10:54:30 2003 From: eh at constantdata.com (Abderrahman El Haddi.) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux/IBM Message-ID: Anyone knows of an IBM hardware reseller that packages IBM servers with Linux? Thank you. --elhaddi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Wed Dec 17 11:26:52 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apache 2.0.47 question In-Reply-To: <3FE08A6A.5010701@comcast.net> References: <031f01c3c407$7aef63b0$320b0b0a@DELL2> <1071637824.29558.40.camel@bigtime> <3FE08A6A.5010701@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FE091DC.7010706@visi.com> Correct me if I'm missing something. The content filter screens requests, and if it sees something that is on your blocked list, it redirects the browser to a web page where the user can make a case for not blocking the site. And the problem is that some folks directly access the form to suggest some anatomically inappropriate actions or whatever. If that's the case, and you have some access to the content filter it seems like the easiest thing to do is to have the filter construct some form of authentication value that gets passed on to the .pl page. If it doesn't have a valid authentication token they get a different page explaining that the page they requested can't be accessed directly. A crude/simple option would be to have the content filter do a simple encryption of the URL for the blocked site and pass the URL and the encrypted URL as parameters to the .pl page. Then the .pl page can decrypt the site URL and if it doesn't match the plain text URL you send them off to the other 'invalid access page'. A smart user could pick up on what is going on and save off a URL/encrypted-URL pair so they can access the protected page anytime they want but it should keep the riff-raff out. And of course you can always beef up the authentication mechanism if you want. --rick Todd Young wrote: > I think people are missing the point..... > > This is a number of schools, with a network of "publicly" used > computers, at least public in the sense that any number of students in > the schools can access these computers. Unless the ".pl page" is > accessible to the "outside" world, filtering by IP would not solve the > problem. If the page is accessible from the outside world, then a > filter to allow only IPs within the school system would be partially > effective. > > I think the only way to solve the problem would be to implement a "log > on" standard across all of the computers at all of the schools > involved. Forcing the students to log on to use a computer would > provide a two fold solution. First, it would get them used to proper > computer security in a shared-PC environment. Second, it would allow > you to "track" mischievous behavior. This is not a perfect solution, > but I don't think there is a perfect solution. > > There is a catch. If a student fails to properly log out of their > session, someone could use that session to send the mischievous > messages. Even if a student didn't send the message, but failed to > properly log out, they could be reprimanded for not following proper > security standards. > > Once the message gets out that "you can be tracked down by your > login", students will be less likely to cause problems, AND more aware > of security measures that protect their "identity". > > Callum Lerwick wrote: > >>> I run a content filter at a number of schools. When a site is banned >>> the >>> user gets a .pl page to fill out on my server explaining why they >>> think the >>> site should not be blocked. I get an email of their comments each >>> time the >>> form is submitted. Lately, some people with too much time on their >>> hands are >>> bringing the page up from my web site and sending me some cute, simple >>> minded messages. Is there something I can add to httpd.conf that >>> will only >>> allow the page to be pulled up if it is requested from a specific IP or >>> network? >> >> >> >> If its a script to begin with, the cleanest thing would probably be to >> just add some code to the script to ignore anyone coming from the wrong >> IP. Dunno how to do it in perl offhand, but the REMOTE_ADDR cgi variable >> should be what you want... > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Dec 17 11:34:23 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apache 2.0.47 question (OT) In-Reply-To: <3FE091DC.7010706@visi.com> References: <031f01c3c407$7aef63b0$320b0b0a@DELL2> <1071637824.29558.40.camel@bigtime> <3FE08A6A.5010701@comcast.net> <3FE091DC.7010706@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FE0939F.4050809@visi.com> Have a Nun stand behind the buggers with a yard stick! ;oD Sam. Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > Correct me if I'm missing something. The content filter screens > requests, and if it sees something that is on your blocked list, it > redirects the browser to a web page where the user can make a case for > not blocking the site. And the problem is that some folks directly > access the form to suggest some anatomically inappropriate actions or > whatever. > > If that's the case, and you have some access to the content filter it > seems like the easiest thing to do is to have the filter construct > some form of authentication value that gets passed on to the .pl page. > If it doesn't have a valid authentication token they get a different > page explaining that the page they requested can't be accessed directly. > > A crude/simple option would be to have the content filter do a simple > encryption of the URL for the blocked site and pass the URL and the > encrypted URL as parameters to the .pl page. Then the .pl page can > decrypt the site URL and if it doesn't match the plain text URL you > send them off to the other 'invalid access page'. A smart user could > pick up on what is going on and save off a URL/encrypted-URL pair so > they can access the protected page anytime they want but it should > keep the riff-raff out. And of course you can always beef up the > authentication mechanism if you want. > > --rick > > > > Todd Young wrote: > >> I think people are missing the point..... >> >> This is a number of schools, with a network of "publicly" used >> computers, at least public in the sense that any number of students >> in the schools can access these computers. Unless the ".pl page" is >> accessible to the "outside" world, filtering by IP would not solve >> the problem. If the page is accessible from the outside world, then a >> filter to allow only IPs within the school system would be partially >> effective. >> >> I think the only way to solve the problem would be to implement a >> "log on" standard across all of the computers at all of the schools >> involved. Forcing the students to log on to use a computer would >> provide a two fold solution. First, it would get them used to proper >> computer security in a shared-PC environment. Second, it would allow >> you to "track" mischievous behavior. This is not a perfect solution, >> but I don't think there is a perfect solution. >> >> There is a catch. If a student fails to properly log out of their >> session, someone could use that session to send the mischievous >> messages. Even if a student didn't send the message, but failed to >> properly log out, they could be reprimanded for not following proper >> security standards. >> >> Once the message gets out that "you can be tracked down by your >> login", students will be less likely to cause problems, AND more >> aware of security measures that protect their "identity". >> >> Callum Lerwick wrote: >> >>>> I run a content filter at a number of schools. When a site is >>>> banned the >>>> user gets a .pl page to fill out on my server explaining why they >>>> think the >>>> site should not be blocked. I get an email of their comments each >>>> time the >>>> form is submitted. Lately, some people with too much time on their >>>> hands are >>>> bringing the page up from my web site and sending me some cute, simple >>>> minded messages. Is there something I can add to httpd.conf that >>>> will only >>>> allow the page to be pulled up if it is requested from a specific >>>> IP or >>>> network? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> If its a script to begin with, the cleanest thing would probably be to >>> just add some code to the script to ignore anyone coming from the wrong >>> IP. Dunno how to do it in perl offhand, but the REMOTE_ADDR cgi >>> variable >>> should be what you want... >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Dec 17 12:07:59 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Displays Message-ID: <3FE09B7F.2050001@visi.com> The 19 inch display has been spoken for. If you are interested in a 17 inch display eMail me. I'm not sure if we will be doing a disposal at one of our big clients any time soon, but I can create a list and pickup the displays. They would be $25.00 if I can get some. The displays are Compaq V70 and V75 they look and work well. I picked up 2 for my kids computers the last time (big time Dad points). I take my laptop with RH 8 installed and test them on site so I know they work. I don't want to lift any more of them then I need to. If anyone has an 8 (or more) port 10 or 10/100 hub I would be willing to trade something for it. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Dec 17 12:21:27 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] UPS swap: Mailing list offline 12/17 In-Reply-To: <20031217180353.GA14576@real-time.com> References: <20031217180353.GA14576@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3FE09EA7.40003@visi.com> I just love the beeps. Sam. Bob Tanner wrote: >Going to swap the dieing UPS on the mailing list server today (12/17). > >Will be down for about 10mins. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Wed Dec 17 12:03:53 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] UPS swap: Mailing list offline 12/17 Message-ID: <20031217180353.GA14576@real-time.com> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Wed Dec 17 12:48:39 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ps wierdness Message-ID: <1071686918.7099.79.camel@lotsa> Hello all, ps is acting strange on a RedHat 7.2 Box. $ ps -V procps version 2.0.7 It acts like I am using the -m flag showing every single thread. When I do give it a -m flag it says -m is not implemented $ ps -m ps: error: Thread display not implemented. What I'd like to see is total processor usage times for some processes without breaking it down into usage for each child thread. On a RedHat 9 box witch comes with ps version 2.0.11 It acts as expected. I get a shorter list with 'ps -ef' and 'ps -efm' listes everything like the RH 7.2 box. Here is and example of what I'm wading though $ ps wf -ef --cols 999 UID PID PPID C STIME TTY STAT TIME CMD root 1 0 0 Dec10 ? S 0:04 init root 2 1 0 Dec10 ? SW 0:00 [keventd] root 3 1 0 Dec10 ? SW 0:03 [kapmd] root 4 1 0 Dec10 ? SWN 0:00 [ksoftirqd_CPU0] root 5 1 0 Dec10 ? SW 1:12 [kswapd] root 6 1 0 Dec10 ? SW 0:00 [bdflush] root 7 1 0 Dec10 ? SW 0:00 [kupdated] root 8 1 0 Dec10 ? SW 0:00 [mdrecoveryd] root 12 1 0 Dec10 ? SW 0:05 [kjournald] root 88 1 0 Dec10 ? SW 0:00 [khubd] root 217 1 0 Dec10 ? SW 0:00 [kjournald] root 218 1 0 Dec10 ? SW 0:11 [kjournald] root 219 1 0 Dec10 ? SW 1:00 [kjournald] root 220 1 0 Dec10 ? SW 0:03 [kjournald] root 693 1 0 Dec10 ? SW 0:00 [eth0] root 782 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:02 syslogd -r -m 0 root 787 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 klogd -2 rpc 807 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 portmap rpcuser 835 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 rpc.statd ntp 947 1 0 Dec10 ? SL 0:00 ntpd -U ntp daemon 1001 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 /usr/sbin/atd daemon 6261 1001 0 05:17 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/atd circus 6262 6261 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 \_ sh circus 6263 6262 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 \_ /bin/sh /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/bin/ant server circus 6272 6263 0 05:17 ? SN 0:05 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server circus 6273 6272 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server circus 6274 6273 0 05:17 ? SN 0:01 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server circus 6275 6273 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server circus 6276 6273 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server circus 6278 6273 0 05:17 ? RN 0:07 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server circus 6279 6273 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server circus 6280 6273 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server circus 6281 6273 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server circus 6290 6273 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server circus 6291 6273 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server circus 6297 6291 0 05:17 ? SN 0:04 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6302 6297 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6303 6302 0 05:17 ? SN 0:01 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6304 6302 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6305 6302 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6306 6302 0 05:17 ? RN 0:07 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6307 6302 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6308 6302 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6309 6302 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6310 6302 0 05:17 ? SN 0:16 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6311 6302 0 05:17 ? SN 0:01 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6312 6302 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6314 6302 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6315 6302 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6316 6302 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6317 6302 0 05:18 ? SN 0:02 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6318 6302 0 05:18 ? SN 0:00 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6350 6302 0 06:17 ? SN 0:00 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6351 6302 0 06:17 ? SN 0:00 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6352 6302 0 06:17 ? SN 0:00 | \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/jre/bin/java -ea -Xms300m -Xmx500m -server -Dconfiguration.home=devmlsserver -Dapplication.home=../.. -Drets.username=circus -Drets.password=circ.rmls.us -Ddo.timing=true -classpath /home/circus/circus/java/classes:/home/circus/circus/lib/mysql-connector-java-2.0.14-bin.jar com.circus.util.At circus 6298 6273 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server circus 6299 6273 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server circus 6300 6273 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server circus 6301 6273 0 05:17 ? SN 0:00 \_ /usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/bin/java -classpath /home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xml-apis.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/xercesImpl.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/optional.jar:/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5/lib/ant.jar:/usr/java/j2sdk1.4.0_01/lib/tools.jar -Dant.home=/home/johnh/jakarta-ant-1.5 org.apache.tools.ant.Main server root 1020 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:03 /usr/sbin/sshd root 6965 1020 0 10:54 ? S 0:01 \_ /usr/sbin/sshd tomp 6967 6965 0 10:54 pts/0 S 0:00 | \_ -bash root 7421 1020 0 12:26 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/sshd tomp 7424 7421 0 12:26 pts/1 S 0:00 \_ -bash tomp 7559 7424 0 12:54 pts/1 R 0:00 \_ ps wf -ef --cols 999 root 1053 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 xinetd -stayalive -reuse -pidfile /var/run/xinetd.pid root 1081 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 sendmail: accepting connections root 1093 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 /bin/sh /opt/MultiLink/bin/LiebertM service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1118 1093 0 Dec10 ? S 0:03 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1130 1118 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1132 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:01 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1133 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:02 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1246 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1274 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1275 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1281 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:32 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1282 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1283 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1287 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1288 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1289 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1291 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1292 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:05 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1293 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1294 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1295 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1296 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1297 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1298 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1314 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1318 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1319 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1320 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1321 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1322 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1339 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1375 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 1:23 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1376 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1377 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1378 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1379 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1380 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1381 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1382 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1383 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1384 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1385 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1386 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1387 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1391 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1397 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1398 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1399 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1400 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1402 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1410 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:01 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1412 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1417 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1419 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1421 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1433 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:01 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 1434 1130 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.app.LxExecutor service /opt/MultiLink cfg/executor.cfg root 5492 1434 0 Dec11 ? S 0:01 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.remoteObj.LxProxyServer /opt/MultiLink root 5496 5492 0 Dec11 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.remoteObj.LxProxyServer /opt/MultiLink root 5497 5496 0 Dec11 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.remoteObj.LxProxyServer /opt/MultiLink root 5498 5496 0 Dec11 ? S 0:04 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.remoteObj.LxProxyServer /opt/MultiLink root 5499 5496 0 Dec11 ? S 0:00 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.remoteObj.LxProxyServer /opt/MultiLink root 5510 5496 0 Dec11 ? S 0:02 \_ /opt/MultiLink/jre/bin/linux/native_threads/jre -ms8m -mx32m -nojit -cp .:/opt/MultiLink/lib/em.jar:/opt/MultiLink/lib/swingall.jar com.liebert.dpg.remoteObj.LxProxyServer /opt/MultiLink root 1113 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 crond root 4887 1113 0 Dec16 ? S 0:00 \_ CROND circus 4889 4887 0 Dec16 ? S 0:00 \_ /bin/bash /home/circus/circus/home/mlsload/bin/nightlyRun circus 6288 4889 0 05:17 ? S 0:00 | \_ mysql root 6285 4887 0 05:17 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/sendmail -FCronDaemon -i -odi -oem thehoffmen@visi.com root 1137 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 /bin/sh /usr/bin/mysqld_safe --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid mysql 1234 1137 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 1276 1234 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 1277 1276 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 1278 1276 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 1279 1276 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 1280 1276 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 1349 1276 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 1350 1276 0 Dec10 ? S 0:05 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 1351 1276 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 1352 1276 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 29712 1276 10 Dec15 ? S 324:57 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 29716 1276 0 Dec15 ? S 0:04 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 31334 1276 12 Dec15 ? R 297:08 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 2042 1276 0 Dec16 ? S 0:03 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 2059 1276 0 Dec16 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 2080 1276 0 Dec16 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 2118 1276 0 Dec16 ? S 0:05 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking mysql 5875 1276 0 02:53 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/lib/mysql/ringmaster.circussoftware.com.pid --skip-locking xfs 1284 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 xfs -droppriv -daemon root 1342 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 rhnsd --interval 240 root 1359 1 0 Dec10 tty1 S 0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty1 root 1360 1 0 Dec10 tty2 S 0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty2 root 1361 1 0 Dec10 tty3 S 0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty3 root 1362 1 0 Dec10 tty4 S 0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty4 root 1363 1 0 Dec10 tty5 S 0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty5 root 1364 1 0 Dec10 tty6 S 0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty6 root 1365 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/gdm -nodaemon root 1388 1365 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/bin/gdm -nodaemon root 1389 1388 0 Dec10 ? S< 9:43 \_ /etc/X11/X :0 -auth /var/gdm/:0.Xauth gdm 2215 1388 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/bin/gdmlogin --disable-sound --disable-crash-dialog gdm 2216 2215 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 \_ /usr/bin/xsri --redhat-login --run tomp 2206 1 0 Dec10 ? S 0:00 oafd --ac-activate --ior-output-fd=11 -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Wed Dec 17 15:36:04 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (rick ) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Displays Message-ID: <200312171536.AA1225982278@mail.eworld3.net> >If anyone has an 8 (or more) port 10 or 10/100 hub I would be willing to >trade something for it. I only have 3 10mb hubs, one of which I'm using. So I could trade them for one 6 port 100mb hub (to replace the one I'm using) and maybe a KVM switch? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben_b at ppdonline.com Wed Dec 17 16:06:27 2003 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] updating spamassassin rules Message-ID: <3FE0D363.FA5E9132@ppdonline.com> Hello, Does anyone know if it is possible to update spamassassin rule sets without upgrading to a new version of spamassassin itself? Thanks, Ben. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Wed Dec 17 16:17:44 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: apache 2.0.47 question Message-ID: <003601c3c4eb$9892c4e0$320b0b0a@DELL2> I resolved it yesterday by using one of the first suggestions given. The users all have to authenticate, which is how I discovered the abuse. The mystery problem child did not follow the same naming scheme we had set up for the school. The solution did not work for me though until I added the last "deny from all" line. AllowOverride All Order deny,allow Allow from x.x.x.x Options +ExecCGI deny from all Thanks for the replies _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Wed Dec 17 16:33:56 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Displays In-Reply-To: <200312171536.AA1225982278@mail.eworld3.net> References: <200312171536.AA1225982278@mail.eworld3.net> Message-ID: <200312171633.56452.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Hehe, reminds me of trading baseball cards when I was kid. Back when I wanted that Frank Viola card 'cause he was the bestest pitcher *ever* (after watching him throw a complete game shutout at the dome), not because the card had any monetary value. *sigh* I guess I'll have to go pull the old collection out of storage and check on it. On Wednesday 17 December 2003 03:36 pm, rick wrote: > >If anyone has an 8 (or more) port 10 or 10/100 hub I would be willing to > >trade something for it. > > I only have 3 10mb hubs, one of which I'm using. So I could trade them for > one 6 port 100mb hub (to replace the one I'm using) and maybe a KVM switch? > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Wed Dec 17 19:08:25 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mutt and cygwin In-Reply-To: <3FE06D72.9070805@visi.com> References: <20031217030622.GA22972@tsathoggua> <3FE06D72.9070805@visi.com> Message-ID: <1071709705.29558.49.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Wed Dec 17 19:43:23 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ps wierdness In-Reply-To: <1071686918.7099.79.camel@lotsa> References: <1071686918.7099.79.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <1071711803.29558.75.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at bnac.biz Wed Dec 17 19:51:28 2003 From: kcbnac at bnac.biz (kcbnac@bnac.biz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB -> Serial adapters for telnet? Message-ID: <1071712288.3fe10820f3ba7@208.179.130.60> Going to be starting LAN/WAN Protocols in January at college...realized, my laptop doesn't have a serial port, like the 'official' laptops most students bought through the college. Anybody got experience with USB to Serial (DB9) adaptors for managing Cisco routers through either Windows (XP) or Linux? Can/will have both installed (just reinstalled my laptop last week due to NTFS/FAT32 bugs...arg) I googled for info, found some guys talking about using OSX on a Mac with Zterm, and that working. www.compgeeks.com has one, but it says that it *won't* work for terminal emulation because it doesn't add a COM port to the system. So I need a terminal emulator that will talk through the USB to the adapted serial. If not, I just grab the new laptop we've got. (Not sure on Linux on that one, though...day before Thanksgiving CompUSA special) Thanks! Keith Bachman _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Wed Dec 17 20:02:15 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! In-Reply-To: <3FD7D3E8.4090207@visi.com> References: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> <20031202235343.C19459@real-time.com> <1070956570.10777.104.camel@bigtime> <3FD7D3E8.4090207@visi.com> Message-ID: <1071712934.29558.88.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at bnac.biz Wed Dec 17 19:54:02 2003 From: kcbnac at bnac.biz (kcbnac@bnac.biz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? Message-ID: <1071712442.3fe108ba621a2@208.179.130.60> Curious...anybody start thinking about when/where we could have the next installfest? Just got done with 'Unix-Based Systems' at Brown College, got some fellow students who'd be interested in getting it running on their desktops. Once again, I'm way out of reach, so the place or two I could have are probably not workable. (North of Anoka) I again volunteer the use of my system(s) as servers and my chassis (assuming and when I get them working, will work on them over winter break here) for network backbone. Wireless (802.11b and/or g, have 2 routers) can also be supplied, if needed. Keith Bachman _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Dec 17 21:02:14 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB -> Serial adapters for telnet? In-Reply-To: <1071712288.3fe10820f3ba7@208.179.130.60> References: <1071712288.3fe10820f3ba7@208.179.130.60> Message-ID: <3FE118B6.8070405@visi.com> Goggle Kermit kcbnac@bnac.biz wrote: >Going to be starting LAN/WAN Protocols in January at college...realized, my >laptop doesn't have a serial port, like the 'official' laptops most students >bought through the college. Anybody got experience with USB to Serial (DB9) >adaptors for managing Cisco routers through either Windows (XP) or Linux? >Can/will have both installed (just reinstalled my laptop last week due to >NTFS/FAT32 bugs...arg) > >I googled for info, found some guys talking about using OSX on a Mac with Zterm, >and that working. www.compgeeks.com has one, but it says that it *won't* work >for terminal emulation because it doesn't add a COM port to the system. So I >need a terminal emulator that will talk through the USB to the adapted serial. > >If not, I just grab the new laptop we've got. (Not sure on Linux on that one, >though...day before Thanksgiving CompUSA special) > >Thanks! > >Keith Bachman > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Dec 17 21:44:08 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <1071712442.3fe108ba621a2@208.179.130.60> References: <1071712442.3fe108ba621a2@208.179.130.60> Message-ID: <1054.68.112.123.230.1071719048.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> > Curious...anybody start thinking about when/where we could have the next > installfest? SCALUG is having an installfest in the next couple months. We're looking at a facility in St. Cloud for our venue. A bit of a drive for TCLUG'ers, but if you absolutely must have your installfest fix you're welcome to join us. Look for an announcement in the next few weeks. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Wed Dec 17 21:48:40 2003 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Courier IMAP Shared Folders Message-ID: <20031218034840.GB21268@slushpupie.com> I have been trying to set up Courier IMAP shared folders on my Debian system, and have not been having good luck with it. Has anyone done this before? Do only certain mail clients work with it? When I telnet to port 143 and go by hand, I can see certain shared folders, but not all of them. No mail client I have tried can see them at all. Jay -- Jay Kline http://www.slushpupie.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Dec 17 22:12:07 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <1071712442.3fe108ba621a2@208.179.130.60> References: <1071712442.3fe108ba621a2@208.179.130.60> Message-ID: <20031218041207.GB4566@fandre.com> I'd like to have one after the holidays, like February or March. Anyone have space to hold it? Let me know. -- Clay On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, kcbnac@bnac.biz wrote: > Curious...anybody start thinking about when/where we could have the next > installfest? Just got done with 'Unix-Based Systems' at Brown College, got some > fellow students who'd be interested in getting it running on their desktops. > > Once again, I'm way out of reach, so the place or two I could have are probably > not workable. (North of Anoka) I again volunteer the use of my system(s) as > servers and my chassis (assuming and when I get them working, will work on them > over winter break here) for network backbone. Wireless (802.11b and/or g, have > 2 routers) can also be supplied, if needed. > > Keith Bachman > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hackel at walkingfish.com Wed Dec 17 23:33:40 2003 From: hackel at walkingfish.com (Ryan Hayle) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Old/Broken Palm III? Message-ID: <3FE13C34.5040501@walkingfish.com> Hey, I managed to drop my Palm IIIxe and break the glass touch-screen (LCD still works). I just thought I'd throw this out and ask if anyone had an old or broken unit (with an intact screen!) they'd care to part with (preferably under $20). Once I find myself a new job I won't be quite so cheap, but in the meantime, I need everything I can get! :) Thanks! Ryan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hackel at walkingfish.com Thu Dec 18 00:55:51 2003 From: hackel at walkingfish.com (Ryan Hayle) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools Message-ID: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> Is anyone affiliated with or heard of this organization? It sounds like an absolutely great program, but it has an obvious problem: "Microsoft Authorized Refurbisher." Linux is the best choice for any school computer lab--I just hate to see our funding-starved schools wasting money on MS licenses. MCFS offers a 32-seat PIII Computer Lab for $8700. Imagine what percentage of that is MS licenses! Must be 20% at least! Anyways, I thought I would see if this topic has ever been brought up before, either with this organization or as an independent project. Setting up Linux labs for schools has been a big interest of mine--especially setting up Linux Terminal Server labs on old hardware--this alone could save schools thousands, or at the very least allow them to open additional labs or provide a terminal in every class. What do you think? Ryan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wdradomski at juno.com Thu Dec 18 01:02:16 2003 From: wdradomski at juno.com (Wm. D Radomski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <20031218.010226.-3852557.1.wdradomski@juno.com> Sam At that price I would gladly buy at least ten. The only problem is that I have not yet developed the confidence (or lack of laziness, depending on your point of view) to use them. I am probably the most deserving sort of person if you believe in basing things on "need," but I prefer to think that most TCLUGers are libertarian in their outlook, and I will thereby only ask for more education (which you all seem to be good at providing) until I teach myself how to take advantage of your generous offer. Sincere thanks, Bill On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:13:12 -0600 TCLUG Classifieds writes: > New TCLUG Classified Ad > > Category: Computer > > Type of Ad: For Sale > > Subject: Memory > > 64 megabyte, PC100 RAM > 1 dollar per stick. > If you purchased some in the last couple of weeks please let some of > the other LUGers have a chance. > > Sam. > > http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wdradomski at juno.com Thu Dec 18 01:22:05 2003 From: wdradomski at juno.com (Wm. D Radomski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apache 2.0.47 question Message-ID: <20031218.012212.-3852557.2.wdradomski@juno.com> Todd Is there any empirical evidence that a requirement of accountability is either harmful or unfair? A mandatory log-in/log-out would do well to solve both the security/control issues and further the exposure of the students to what will be expected of them in the post-educational (for most of us, the "real") world. Non-compliance could be easily tracked, and would simply result in a metered limit of access. Is this simple bit of logic beyond our current state of educational politics? (naively?) Bill On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:55:06 -0600 Todd Young writes: > I think people are missing the point..... > > This is a number of schools, with a network of "publicly" used > computers, at least public in the sense that any number of students > in > the schools can access these computers. Unless the ".pl page" is > accessible to the "outside" world, filtering by IP would not solve > the > problem. If the page is accessible from the outside world, then a > filter > to allow only IPs within the school system would be partially > effective. > > I think the only way to solve the problem would be to implement a > "log > on" standard across all of the computers at all of the schools > involved. > Forcing the students to log on to use a computer would provide a two > > fold solution. First, it would get them used to proper computer > security > in a shared-PC environment. Second, it would allow you to "track" > mischievous behavior. This is not a perfect solution, but I don't > think > there is a perfect solution. > > There is a catch. If a student fails to properly log out of their > session, someone could use that session to send the mischievous > messages. Even if a student didn't send the message, but failed to > properly log out, they could be reprimanded for not following proper > > security standards. > > Once the message gets out that "you can be tracked down by your > login", > students will be less likely to cause problems, AND more aware of > security measures that protect their "identity". > > Callum Lerwick wrote: > >>I run a content filter at a number of schools. When a site is > banned the > >>user gets a .pl page to fill out on my server explaining why they > think the > >>site should not be blocked. I get an email of their comments each > time the > >>form is submitted. Lately, some people with too much time on their > hands are > >>bringing the page up from my web site and sending me some cute, > simple > >>minded messages. Is there something I can add to httpd.conf that > will only > >>allow the page to be pulled up if it is requested from a specific > IP or > >>network? > > > > > > If its a script to begin with, the cleanest thing would probably > be to > > just add some code to the script to ignore anyone coming from the > wrong > > IP. Dunno how to do it in perl offhand, but the REMOTE_ADDR cgi > variable > > should be what you want... > > -- > Todd Young > 7079 Dawn Ave. E. > Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Thu Dec 18 01:36:28 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> Message-ID: <000801c3c539$a64e6870$0201a8c0@brinstar> Ryan Hayle writes: > Linux is the best choice for any > school computer lab--I just hate to see our funding-starved schools > wasting money on MS licenses. MCFS offers a 32-seat PIII Computer > Lab for $8700. Imagine what percentage of that is MS licenses! Must > be 20% at least! You're wrong and are spreading FUD. MS licenses for schools can be dirt cheap. I recall Windows and Office being available for around $10 each. Linux is certainly not "the best choice for any school computer lab". Here are just a couple of reasons why: Programs that are used in the real world often only run on Windows. These programs might include MS Office, CAD, circuit designers and testers, etc. While the difference between Microsoft Office and other office suites may be negligable both to a casual office user and to a power user, the differences can be huge to both a heavy office user and an average computer user. If the purpose of a course is to teach how to use a specific application, then you need to be able to run that application. Linux is not the easiest OS to fix. Schools often have to rely on teachers to fix problems with computers. Giving them something that is difficult to fix means there will be less computers for students to use. From a reliability and TCO standpoint, Apple might come out ahead. Promoting Linux is fine, but start thinking about why Linux is a better solution from all standpoints. > Anyways, I thought I would see if this topic has ever been brought up > before, either with this organization or as an independent project. http://www.lfsp.org/ > Setting up Linux labs for schools has been a big interest of > mine--especially setting up Linux Terminal Server labs on old > hardware--this alone could save schools thousands, or at the very > least allow them to open additional labs or provide a terminal in > every class. What do you think? When I was in middle school, we had 386s. They ran DOS applications like Microsoft Works just fine. Do you really need ten times more computing resources to run a word processor? The next time you have an old computer that seems like a piece of junk that can't run anything think about this: When it was new, there was a lot of software available for it that ran great. Does modern software do that much more? -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hackel at walkingfish.com Thu Dec 18 01:58:58 2003 From: hackel at walkingfish.com (Ryan Hayle) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <000801c3c539$a64e6870$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <000801c3c539$a64e6870$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <3FE15E42.2050306@walkingfish.com> David Phillips wrote: > You're wrong and are spreading FUD. > > MS licenses for schools can be dirt cheap. I recall Windows and Office > being available for around $10 each. Well I've certainly never purchased any MS crap for schools or otherwise, so I am quite surprised it is available that cheap. Even so, it is still $640 that a school doesn't have. > Linux is certainly not "the best choice for any school computer lab". Here > are just a couple of reasons why: > > Programs that are used in the real world often only run on Windows. These > programs might include MS Office, CAD, circuit designers and testers, etc. > While the difference between Microsoft Office and other office suites may be > negligable both to a casual office user and to a power user, the differences > can be huge to both a heavy office user and an average computer user. If > the purpose of a course is to teach how to use a specific application, then > you need to be able to run that application. Keep in mind I'm talking about K12 schools, not technical schools or anything like that. The "real world" doesn't matter in this case. Students need to be able to word process and browse the web. For the most part, that's it. Sure if there's some specialized CAD application that's necessary for some technical class or something, a lone Windows machine can be used. As for office suites, as always, it's a matter of what one learns. Students are certainly not power users, and don't need any advanced features (not to suggest such advanced features are unavailable in OO.org or other alternatives). I can't believe I'm actually having to argue this here of all places! > Linux is not the easiest OS to fix. Schools often have to rely on teachers > to fix problems with computers. Giving them something that is difficult to > fix means there will be less computers for students to use. From a > reliability and TCO standpoint, Apple might come out ahead. Now who's spreading FUD? True, with no prior knowledge, Linux is certainly not the easiest OS to fix, but it is also the hardest OS to break! Once a system is setup by a semi-competent administrator, there is very little chance short of a hardware failure that something at the OS level will go wrong. > Promoting Linux is fine, but start thinking about why Linux is a better > solution from all standpoints. The other reason it is a superior solution which I haven't even mentioned is ease of administration. The lack of crashing and maintenance alone would save countless hours of support requests and such. > http://www.lfsp.org/ Yes I am familiar with all of these, I meant *locally*. > When I was in middle school, we had 386s. They ran DOS applications like > Microsoft Works just fine. Do you really need ten times more computing > resources to run a word processor? Uh, yes, if you want it to be graphical, including pictures or anything else. But it does not need to be significantly more powerful. Schools seem to upgrade far too often and buy systems that are horribly overpowered. This is exactly my point, and why old hardware should be used as terminal servers instead of thrown out. > The next time you have an old computer that seems like a piece of junk that > can't run anything think about this: When it was new, there was a lot of > software available for it that ran great. Does modern software do that much > more? Obviously it depends on the usage, but usually, yes. Especially in the Microsoft world, you have no hope of running Office 2002 on a 486. Ryan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Dec 18 05:53:40 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <000801c3c539$a64e6870$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <000801c3c539$a64e6870$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <1071748420.3591.75.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 18 07:49:03 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? In-Reply-To: <1054.68.112.123.230.1071719048.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> References: <1071712442.3fe108ba621a2@208.179.130.60> <1054.68.112.123.230.1071719048.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> Message-ID: <3FE1B04F.1000507@visi.com> ROAD TRIP! :-D Sam. Brian wrote: >>Curious...anybody start thinking about when/where we could have the next >>installfest? >> >> > >SCALUG is having an installfest in the next couple months. We're looking >at a facility in St. Cloud for our venue. A bit of a drive for TCLUG'ers, >but if you absolutely must have your installfest fix you're welcome to >join us. Look for an announcement in the next few weeks. > >-Brian > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 18 07:51:56 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Old/Broken Palm III? In-Reply-To: <3FE13C34.5040501@walkingfish.com> References: <3FE13C34.5040501@walkingfish.com> Message-ID: <3FE1B0FC.6010801@visi.com> Is it the same size as the "Palm Pilot" - "USR" if so you can have my old one. It finally died after, I think, 8 years. Sam . Ryan Hayle wrote: > Hey, I managed to drop my Palm IIIxe and break the glass touch-screen > (LCD still works). I just thought I'd throw this out and ask if > anyone had an old or broken unit (with an intact screen!) they'd care > to part with (preferably under $20). Once I find myself a new job I > won't be quite so cheap, but in the meantime, I need everything I can > get! :) > > Thanks! > Ryan > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Thu Dec 18 14:04:19 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 2.6 Kernel Message-ID: Just in time for the holidays! http://www.kernel.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu Dec 18 08:11:45 2003 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:48 2005 Subject: Use a mirror! (WAS: Re: [TCLUG] 2.6 Kernel) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ftp.us.kernel.org ! On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Just in time for the holidays! > > http://www.kernel.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Dec 18 08:19:27 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Flame on! In-Reply-To: <1071712934.29558.88.camel@bigtime> References: <3FCD2305.8080108@ssgix.com> <20031202235343.C19459@real-time.com> <1070956570.10777.104.camel@bigtime> <3FD7D3E8.4090207@visi.com> <1071712934.29558.88.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <1071757165.5874.15.camel@unixws1> > rest of Ford's full size sedans. So my Mark VI is merely "big" rather > than the 60-70's era "obscenely huge". The trunk is actually smaller > than my 88 Buick Century, though that has pretty big trunk for a mid > size car... mmm...Lincoln. My father always wanted a Lincoln Mark VIII. He called it "the ultimate landlord-mobile". I told him if he bought one, I'd get him custom plates: SLUMLRD I thought it was kind of funny that during this big-vehicle/SUV/gashog/physics thread, that I bought a complement to my '03 S-10. I purchased a '97 Ford Econoslime Conversion Van. The thing is a monster. My garage door opens to 6'9" - this thing is 6'8.75", but (as we found out), the cross-bar on the roof rack bows up another 1/2" in the center, so we had to raise the garage door, and always keep a full tank of gas (and maybe let a little air out of the tires), so it sits low enough to fit. So this monster sits in my garage - it's just huge, you can almost see the sides of the garage bowing out trying to contain it...but nose-to-tail, the 95 Interceptor is STILL LONGER! It's a sweet van though - not as pimpin as the Shaggin Wagon (the van is much too nice to be "pimpin"). But it's got a 9" TV/VCR, 12-disc CD changer, ABS, and Positraction. My old man used it for ice fishing - he actually took this beast out on the ice, windows open in case he went through. It's ice fishing days are over, but it will probably see quite a few more Griswald-esq family vacations, dog shows, and fishing trips. Doing my part to use up all the fossil fuel, Adam _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drake at math.umn.edu Thu Dec 18 08:23:28 2003 From: drake at math.umn.edu (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:49 2005 Subject: Use a mirror! (WAS: Re: [TCLUG] 2.6 Kernel) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031218142328.GA7595@math.umn.edu> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Thu Dec 18 08:26:49 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 2.6 Kernel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Just in time for the holidays! Hmm. I downloaded it at 353K/s (yay, cable!), which took about 90-100 seconds. (It's 32mb, mind.) I wonder why I can't get speeds like that from other software vendors? Just a thought. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Dec 18 08:23:44 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] updating spamassassin rules In-Reply-To: <3FE0D363.FA5E9132@ppdonline.com> References: <3FE0D363.FA5E9132@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <1071757423.5874.19.camel@unixws1> I think it depends...the basic pattern-matching rules will probably work fine, since all versions of SA should handle that. Depending on how old your current version is, some of the "newer" checks like razor2, bayesian, and DCC may not (if your current version doesn't have these), or there may be something even newer that isn't supported. It will probably still "work", but those tests that the spamd engine can't handle will just fail, and shouldn't impact the score. I've never tried it - I've always just upgraded both. Never had a problem going to a new version. On Wed, 2003-12-17 at 16:06, Ben Bargabus wrote: > Hello, > Does anyone know if it is possible to update spamassassin rule sets > without upgrading to a new version of spamassassin itself? > Thanks, > Ben. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drake at math.umn.edu Thu Dec 18 08:33:56 2003 From: drake at math.umn.edu (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:49 2005 Subject: Use a mirror! (WAS: Re: [TCLUG] 2.6 Kernel) In-Reply-To: <20031218142328.GA7595@math.umn.edu> References: <20031218142328.GA7595@math.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20031218143356.GB7595@math.umn.edu> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 18 08:41:28 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <1071748420.3591.75.camel@bigtime> References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <000801c3c539$a64e6870$0201a8c0@brinstar> <1071748420.3591.75.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <3FE1BC98.3040805@visi.com> I had to comment. The reason schools now have M$ products is 3 fold. 1. Business uses M$ products, business has a huge say in what is taught in schools. "What kind of workers do you need today." Art, Music, Literature, Ethics, and Drama don't carry any weight with business so they get 0 "zero" funding Math and Science get some funding so the ladder climbers can us smart people for ladder wrung. Sports and Creative BS your way to the top, get tons of funding. 2. M$ is pushing like crazy to get it's products in to the schools. M$ can market like no other company I know of 3. Can I hire a Linux SA for the same as an NT SA? Is Linux easier to support then NT? Now if your school needs computers, many of the biggest companies in this country will grant schools $ to purchase computers. Not with OSX or Linux but you guessed it M$ products. The computer lab at my kids school has better PC's then I do (doesn't take much). They must have 35-40 PC's with 17 inch displays. Do the computers get used for educating my kids? My Daughter (12) is able to type and spell without using a spell check. Yes she can use a computer and she is getting an education (parish school). My son (9) is still hunting and pecking but he can spell almost any word. Computers and Calculators are not aloud to be used for Math. I'm relearning algebra now and it's really fun, sort of. My son uses his computer to access the Hennepin County Library System http://www.hclib.org to get books, video, music, and anything else he can find. He can renew anything he has checked out in a heart beat. He has his own account and password both on my network and on the http://www.hclib.org web site. The best thing I did (computer oriented) for my kids was to teach them how to find things on http://www.hclib.org We don't buy or rent movies, we buy books but not everyone they want to read. My son's home page is http://www.hclib.org he can't get enough of it. I take 2 trips a week to the library and I don't mind one bit. This years best Holiday gift has to be http://www.hclib.org for your kids or your self. Sam. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bruce.broecker at toro.com Thu Dec 18 08:40:02 2003 From: bruce.broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Installfest? Message-ID: I was thinking the same thing. I may be recovered enough by then to host another at Toro. Bruce Bruce Broecker Network Comm Supervisor The Toro Company >>> Clay Fandre 12/17/03 10:12PM >>> I'd like to have one after the holidays, like February or March. Anyone have space to hold it? Let me know. -- Clay On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, kcbnac@bnac.biz wrote: > Curious...anybody start thinking about when/where we could have the next > installfest? Just got done with 'Unix-Based Systems' at Brown College, got some > fellow students who'd be interested in getting it running on their desktops. > > Once again, I'm way out of reach, so the place or two I could have are probably > not workable. (North of Anoka) I again volunteer the use of my system(s) as > servers and my chassis (assuming and when I get them working, will work on them > over winter break here) for network backbone. Wireless (802.11b and/or g, have > 2 routers) can also be supplied, if needed. > > Keith Bachman > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 18 08:56:26 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest Message-ID: <3FE1C01A.8070206@visi.com> With the 2.6 kernel out (happy holiday) and most of us Linux newbies not getting a clue for Christmas. It would be nice to see the process of building a kernel. Installing is one thing but maintaining (upgrading) is another. Once I see something done by someone who knows what they are doing, I'm more likely to try it my self. I would like to install Linux on my old Sun Sparc 2 by way of a serial terminal connection. I think I'll wait for the next install fest, that way others can see how it's done. The right way, not my way :-) Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 18 08:58:42 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I just does not stop. Message-ID: <3FE1C0A2.7060902@visi.com> FYI just thought you all might want to know http://www.ibmemployee.com/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Thu Dec 18 09:17:04 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <3FE1BC98.3040805@visi.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > The reason schools now have M$ products is 3 fold. > 1. Business uses M$ products, business has a huge say in what is taught > in schools. "What kind of workers > do you need today." no they don't, that is the plot hole that apple fell into, 1. give computers to schools for cheap/free 2. students graduate and know Apple computers 3. people use apples at work because they know them 4. people demand that more schools teach apples 5. profit! see... 3,4 and 5 never happened people use whatever thay are told they should use at work not what they want to use, and business didnt demand anything because in the end they had to reeducate the employees on softwareX anyways. All the employees _need_ to know is how to use a mouse! Apple nearly went away because of this and it was Microsoft that had to bail them out. > 2. M$ is pushing like crazy to get it's products in to the schools. > M$ can market like no other company I know of kinda like the Count of Monte Cristo, he had money so people listened. > 3. Can I hire a Linux SA for the same as an NT SA? > Is Linux easier to support then NT? yes it is > Now if your school needs computers, many of the biggest companies in > this country will grant schools $ to purchase computers. Not with OSX or > Linux but you guessed it M$ products. The computer lab at my kids > school has better PC's then I do (doesn't take much). They must have > 35-40 PC's with 17 inch displays. afaik no grant was ever that specific... they usually give money to build a computer lab or classroom and the schools IT dept. doesnt know any better that to request anything OTHER than MS software -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Thu Dec 18 09:13:17 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Old/Broken Palm III? In-Reply-To: <3FE13C34.5040501@walkingfish.com> Message-ID: I've got a Palm IIIx I could part with. I've also got a Sony palm (Color, 2 MB, Sony MemStick Slot) Don't recall the model number though, and a Palm Vx with two cradles (Color, 8 MB) I would like to sell, while I'm at it...all three palms are in pretty good shape. Contact me off-list if interested. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hayle > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 11:34 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: [TCLUG] Old/Broken Palm III? > > > Hey, I managed to drop my Palm IIIxe and break the glass touch-screen > (LCD still works). I just thought I'd throw this out and ask > if anyone > had an old or broken unit (with an intact screen!) they'd > care to part > with (preferably under $20). Once I find myself a new job I won't be > quite so cheap, but in the meantime, I need everything I can get! :) > > Thanks! > Ryan > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Thu Dec 18 09:19:01 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 2.6 Kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031218151901.GB755@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Dec 18 09:22:28 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <000801c3c539$a64e6870$0201a8c0@brinstar> <1071748420.3591.75.camel@bigtime> <3FE1BC98.3040805@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FE1C634.9060306@structural-wood.com> Samuel MacDonald wrote: > I had to comment. > > The reason schools now have M$ products is 3 fold. [Lot's of interesting stuff trimmed because I forgot my asbestos shorts] Just out of curiousity - what schools have MS products? The Minneapolis school my kid goes to uses Macs and Stillwater school district just signed up with a huge Apple Mac program. Incidentally, if anyone is interested in pushing a Linux solution to a school district (say for instance K12LTSP), Stillwater is a stirred up pot that could congeal in any of a number of several configurations... Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Thu Dec 18 10:06:52 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 2.6 Kernel In-Reply-To: <20031218151901.GB755@iucha.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Florin Iucha wrote: > *.kernel.org has a FAT (~100MBs) pipe. a while ago it was upgraded to an even fatter 250MB/s outbound connection... people must really REALLY like linux :) -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Thu Dec 18 09:52:52 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <3FE1C634.9060306@structural-wood.com> References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <000801c3c539$a64e6870$0201a8c0@brinstar> <1071748420.3591.75.camel@bigtime> <3FE1BC98.3040805@visi.com> <3FE1C634.9060306@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <1071762772.7099.934.camel@lotsa> On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 09:22, Kent Schumacher wrote: > Incidentally, if anyone is interested in pushing a Linux solution to a > school district (say for instance K12LTSP), Stillwater is a stirred up > pot that could congeal in any of a number of several configurations... Personally, I think schools should have some of each Windoze Mac & linux. Teach them from the start TIMTOWTDI. I still have no idea how to use a Mac because I've never taken the time to play with one. We had Apple II's in our high school, I haven't used one since. -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Dec 18 10:17:22 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312181617.hBIGHMZ12892@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: AMD K-6 2 400/Asus Mainboard AMD K-6 2 400 Mhz processor w/ fan and Asus mainboard - 3 PCI - 1 AGP - 2 ISA - 3 memory slots, tested and works - $30/obo. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 18 10:17:44 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <1071762772.7099.934.camel@lotsa> References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <000801c3c539$a64e6870$0201a8c0@brinstar> <1071748420.3591.75.camel@bigtime> <3FE1BC98.3040805@visi.com> <3FE1C634.9060306@structural-wood.com> <1071762772.7099.934.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <3FE1D328.3080109@visi.com> We didn't have any computers in the high school I went to. That was 1974-77 so that sort of explains it :) Sam Tom Penney wrote: >On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 09:22, Kent Schumacher wrote: > > >>Incidentally, if anyone is interested in pushing a Linux solution to a >>school district (say for instance K12LTSP), Stillwater is a stirred up >>pot that could congeal in any of a number of several configurations... >> >> > >Personally, I think schools should have some of each Windoze Mac & >linux. Teach them from the start TIMTOWTDI. > >I still have no idea how to use a Mac because I've never taken the time >to play with one. We had Apple II's in our high school, I haven't used >one since. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Dec 18 10:25:56 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apache 2.0.47 question In-Reply-To: <20031218.012212.-3852557.2.wdradomski@juno.com> References: <20031218.012212.-3852557.2.wdradomski@juno.com> Message-ID: <3FE1D514.2080608@comcast.net> No, I think the accountability factor in requiring a log-in/log-out is GREAT! Kids using computers NEED to be taught proper security procedures. I was truly amazed at my last job how many people would walk away from their PCs without locking them. With open screens to the mainframe TOO! My wife's company has recently enacted a mandatory "password protected" screen saver, with a timeout of 10 minutes. As most people know, this is an easy registry change for the desktop admin group, and I'm sure they keep track of people who change it and if it's changed too often, it's probably reported to the person's manager. You must have misunderstood my statement. I was merely suggesting that at first you would get kids who would not log out properly, and then others would use their account for making trouble. And I'm sure they would cry and moan about any disciplinary action. They would have to be disciplined the same as those making the actual trouble as their lack of security led to the problem. They may not like it, but the perhaps they would learn their lesson after the first disciplinary action. Wm. D Radomski wrote: > Todd > Is there any empirical evidence that a requirement of accountability > is either harmful or unfair? A mandatory log-in/log-out would do well > to solve both the security/control issues and further the exposure of > the students to what will be expected of them in the post-educational > (for most of us, the "real") world. Non-compliance could be easily > tracked, and would simply result in a metered limit of access. Is this > simple bit of logic beyond our current state of educational politics? > > (naively?) > Bill > > On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:55:06 -0600 Todd Young > writes: > >>I think people are missing the point..... >> >>This is a number of schools, with a network of "publicly" used >>computers, at least public in the sense that any number of students >>in >>the schools can access these computers. Unless the ".pl page" is >>accessible to the "outside" world, filtering by IP would not solve >>the >>problem. If the page is accessible from the outside world, then a >>filter >>to allow only IPs within the school system would be partially >>effective. >> >>I think the only way to solve the problem would be to implement a >>"log >>on" standard across all of the computers at all of the schools >>involved. >>Forcing the students to log on to use a computer would provide a two >> >>fold solution. First, it would get them used to proper computer >>security >>in a shared-PC environment. Second, it would allow you to "track" >>mischievous behavior. This is not a perfect solution, but I don't >>think >>there is a perfect solution. >> >>There is a catch. If a student fails to properly log out of their >>session, someone could use that session to send the mischievous >>messages. Even if a student didn't send the message, but failed to >>properly log out, they could be reprimanded for not following proper >> >>security standards. >> >>Once the message gets out that "you can be tracked down by your >>login", >>students will be less likely to cause problems, AND more aware of >>security measures that protect their "identity". >> >>Callum Lerwick wrote: >> >>>>I run a content filter at a number of schools. When a site is >> >>banned the >> >>>>user gets a .pl page to fill out on my server explaining why they >> >>think the >> >>>>site should not be blocked. I get an email of their comments each >> >>time the >> >>>>form is submitted. Lately, some people with too much time on their >> >>hands are >> >>>>bringing the page up from my web site and sending me some cute, >> >>simple >> >>>>minded messages. Is there something I can add to httpd.conf that >> >>will only >> >>>>allow the page to be pulled up if it is requested from a specific >> >>IP or >> >>>>network? >>> >>> >>>If its a script to begin with, the cleanest thing would probably >> >>be to >> >>>just add some code to the script to ignore anyone coming from the >> >>wrong >> >>>IP. Dunno how to do it in perl offhand, but the REMOTE_ADDR cgi >> >>variable >> >>>should be what you want... >> >>-- >>Todd Young >>7079 Dawn Ave. E. >>Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From myok at ogzr.org Thu Dec 18 10:42:16 2003 From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Old/Broken Palm III? In-Reply-To: <3FE13C34.5040501@walkingfish.com> References: <3FE13C34.5040501@walkingfish.com> Message-ID: <1071765736.8133.6.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> On Wed, 2003-12-17 at 23:33, Ryan Hayle wrote: > Hey, I managed to drop my Palm IIIxe and break the glass touch-screen > (LCD still works). I just thought I'd throw this out and ask if anyone > had an old or broken unit (with an intact screen!) they'd care to part > with (preferably under $20). Once I find myself a new job I won't be > quite so cheap, but in the meantime, I need everything I can get! :) > You betcha, I have a disassembled Palm III and Palm IIIx in a box, just waiting to be donated to a worthy cause. Both screens work fine. Computer Renaissance in Roseville has been selling Palms for $25 so I've been accumulating a collection. E-mail me off-list if you're interested. -- Carl Patten _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Dec 18 10:46:03 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I just does not stop. In-Reply-To: <3FE1C0A2.7060902@visi.com> References: <3FE1C0A2.7060902@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031218164603.GG6711@techmonkeys.org> Yes, "you just does not stop". -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Thu Dec 18 10:47:43 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] redirecting mail to a different user with procmail Message-ID: Hey everyone, I posted on this topic a couple days ago but didn't get any response. I'm going to post this again in case someone out there lost the original in the email shuffle. I think I need procmail and formail to do what I want, but I haven't had any luck finding the docs I need to figure this out on my own. Some background: I just installed Request Tracker for out tech support people to use to track computer and software problems. It's working great so far. We have a lot of different schools and I want to make things as easy as possible for teachers. I created an email address of the form help@myschool.k12.mn.us that teachers and other staff can use to add items to the RT database. I want to use procmail to inspect the Subject line of all emails sent to help@myschool.k12.mn.us and redirect those emails to other recipients (and thereby better organizing the tickets). For example, an email sent to help@myschool.k12.mn.us that contains "Read 180" somewhere in the subject should get redirected to tis-help@myschool.k12.mn.us. I'm using Debian, Postfix, and procmail for local mail delivery. The "help" and "tis-help" addresses do not correspond to actual users on the system. They're simply aliases. Any ideas? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Thu Dec 18 11:10:59 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnny fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Old/Broken Palm III? In-Reply-To: <1071765736.8133.6.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> References: <3FE13C34.5040501@walkingfish.com> <1071765736.8133.6.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:42:16 -0600, Carl Patten wrote: > On Wed, 2003-12-17 at 23:33, Ryan Hayle wrote: >> Hey, I managed to drop my Palm IIIxe and break the glass touch-screen >> (LCD still works). I just thought I'd throw this out and ask if anyone >> had an old or broken unit (with an intact screen!) they'd care to part >> with (preferably under $20). Once I find myself a new job I won't be >> quite so cheap, but in the meantime, I need everything I can get! :) >> > > You betcha, I have a disassembled Palm III and Palm IIIx in a box, just > waiting to be donated to a worthy cause. Both screens work fine. > Computer Renaissance in Roseville has been selling Palms for $25 so I've Holy Crap - There's still a Computer Renaissance around?!? LAst time I was in one of those places, I was floored by the (high) price of the junk they had. > been accumulating a collection. > > E-mail me off-list if you're interested. > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Thu Dec 18 11:25:30 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 2.6 Kernel In-Reply-To: <20031218151901.GB755@iucha.net> References: <20031218151901.GB755@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20031218172530.GA8132@refried.org> On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 09:19:01AM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > *.kernel.org has a FAT (~100MBs) pipe. Right now on their home page > they report > "Current bandwidth utilization 220.92 Mbit/s" Yeah, they're getting hammered now. Current stats: Up since: Wed Apr 16 13:06:46 2003 Load Average: 120.64 112.24 100.64 (1585 processes) Ram: 5950784KB Free: 6824KB Current bandwidth utilization 259.49 Mbit/s I already pulled it via bk. ;) Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Thu Dec 18 11:29:39 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] redirecting mail to a different user with procmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FE1E403.6070205@druswanderings.net> Tim Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I posted on this topic a couple days ago but didn't get any response. > I'm going to post this again in case someone out there lost the original > in the email shuffle. > man procmailex There are examples showing exactly(or nearly enough) what you want. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Thu Dec 18 11:34:28 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest In-Reply-To: <3FE1C01A.8070206@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 08:56:26AM -0600 References: <3FE1C01A.8070206@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031218113428.A21569@thinkunix.net> Samuel MacDonald wrote: > With the 2.6 kernel out (happy holiday) and most of us Linux newbies not > getting a clue for Christmas. It would be nice to see the process of > building a kernel. Installing is one thing but maintaining (upgrading) > is another. > Once I see something done by someone who knows what they are doing, I'm > more likely to try it my self. ah, live a little Sam! take a crack at it yourself and then you'll have better questions when the experts are around. The kernel documentation is what got me started way back when. See /usr/src/linux/README and /usr/src/linux/Documentation/* If that isn't enough there are plenty of HOWTO's and websites detailing how to roll your own kernel. Really, it's a pretty simple process. > I would like to install Linux on my old Sun Sparc 2 by way of a serial > terminal connection. I think I'll wait for the next install fest, that > way others can see how it's done. The right way, not my way :-) again, you should give it a try on your own. You might be able to teach us something too. With Linux, your way is [generally] the right way... -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com Thu Dec 18 11:51:24 2003 From: LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com (Lawrence Clemens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> Message-ID: <002f01c3c58f$8e151f50$24fea8c0@computer> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 18 11:57:13 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Old/Broken Palm III? In-Reply-To: References: <3FE13C34.5040501@walkingfish.com> <1071765736.8133.6.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> Message-ID: <3FE1EA79.4070005@visi.com> They have one at Ridgedale. MPC is much better :) johnny fulcrum wrote: > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:42:16 -0600, Carl Patten wrote: > >> On Wed, 2003-12-17 at 23:33, Ryan Hayle wrote: >> >>> Hey, I managed to drop my Palm IIIxe and break the glass touch-screen >>> (LCD still works). I just thought I'd throw this out and ask if anyone >>> had an old or broken unit (with an intact screen!) they'd care to part >>> with (preferably under $20). Once I find myself a new job I won't be >>> quite so cheap, but in the meantime, I need everything I can get! :) >>> >> >> You betcha, I have a disassembled Palm III and Palm IIIx in a box, just >> waiting to be donated to a worthy cause. Both screens work fine. >> Computer Renaissance in Roseville has been selling Palms for $25 so I've > > > Holy Crap - There's still a Computer Renaissance around?!? LAst time > I was in one of those places, I was floored by the (high) price of the > junk they had. > >> been accumulating a collection. >> >> E-mail me off-list if you're interested. >> > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Thu Dec 18 12:01:00 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest In-Reply-To: <20031218113428.A21569@thinkunix.net> References: <3FE1C01A.8070206@visi.com> <20031218113428.A21569@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <23126976-3184-11D8-BD85-000A95A50472@visi.com> On Dec 18, 2003, at 11:34 AM, Scot Jenkins wrote: > ah, live a little Sam! take a crack at it yourself and then you'll > have > better questions when the experts are around. The kernel documentation > is what got me started way back when. See /usr/src/linux/README and > /usr/src/linux/Documentation/* It's been said before, but it bears repeating. Don't nuke your old kernel after you build you new one! If your new kernel has problems you'll be left with a crippled system at best. Whether you use grub or lilo, make sure you preserve the option of booting your old kernel. Many people have a number of old kernels lying around in /boot and it's no problem. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Daniel.Post at st.bemidjistate.edu Thu Dec 18 12:08:37 2003 From: Daniel.Post at st.bemidjistate.edu (Daniel Post) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kind of a different question Message-ID: <1071770917.a0d94be0Daniel.Post@st.bemidjistate.edu> I am trying to push a high school to use linux by installing a k12ltsp.org (ltsp on Redhat 8) server and a few thin clients. More will be purchased if I am able to please everyone with the results. Install was easily done. Now they have one interesting request: they want me to try to remove all or at least most of the programs listed in the mini "start menus" that show up when you get into, say, KDE, GNOME, etc (I've got several desktops installed). The one they like best (for simplicity-- the idea is to keep students focused on their word processing or web research, not clicking all over trying to find stuff to break. I know, there are a hundred arguments against this, that's not what I need right now) is IceWM. So, how do I modify (IceWM|KDE|GNOME|.*) so I can control which menus are available to a given type of user? I've grepped around a bit with no luck, so now hoping you guys have some insight. TIA Dan Post _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Dec 18 12:33:08 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <3FE1D328.3080109@visi.com> References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <000801c3c539$a64e6870$0201a8c0@brinstar> <1071748420.3591.75.camel@bigtime> <3FE1BC98.3040805@visi.com> <3FE1C634.9060306@structural-wood.com> <1071762772.7099.934.camel@lotsa> <3FE1D328.3080109@visi.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > We didn't have any computers in the high school I went to. That was > 1974-77 so that sort of explains it :) Really? You didn't have calculators back then? :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Thu Dec 18 12:17:40 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] redirecting mail to a different user with procmail In-Reply-To: <20031218120140.O10265-100000@tcfreenet.org> References: <20031218120140.O10265-100000@tcfreenet.org> Message-ID: <776F6286-3186-11D8-BD85-000A95A50472@visi.com> On Dec 18, 2003, at 12:04 PM, Gerald Skerbitz wrote: > Here's a procmail recipe applicable to your example: > > : > * ^TOhelp@myschool.k12.mn.us > * ^Subject:.*Read 180.* > !tis-help@myschool.k12.mn.us > > Did you want more complexity? I'm scanning procmailex now. Yep, there are a lot of good examples there. I guess creating the recipe wasn't the hard part in my mind. I should have been more clear. In my case the original destination email address, help@myschool.k12.mn.us, doesn't exist as a regular system user. Therefore, there's no ~ in which to place a ~/.procmailrc file. Here's what the relevant entry in /etc/aliases looks like: help: "|/usr/bin/rt-mailgate --queue General --action correspond --url h ttp://support.myschool.k12.mn.us/" So where would the procmail recipe have to live in order to operate on the "help" alias? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hackel at walkingfish.com Thu Dec 18 12:39:03 2003 From: hackel at walkingfish.com (Ryan Hayle) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <3FE1C634.9060306@structural-wood.com> References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <000801c3c539$a64e6870$0201a8c0@brinstar> <1071748420.3591.75.camel@bigtime> <3FE1BC98.3040805@visi.com> <3FE1C634.9060306@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <1071772742.17349.5.camel@x101-8-200.cla.umn.edu> On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 09:22, Kent Schumacher wrote: > Just out of curiousity - what schools have MS products? The Minneapolis > school my kid goes to uses Macs and Stillwater school district just signed > up with a huge Apple Mac program. When I worked for Hopkins (when I was still a student) I setup 2 Compaq Win98 labs in the tech department. They have a mix, but are still mostly Mac. I think this trend is increasing everywhere (well, at least at those schools that can afford to spend money on new equipment). > Incidentally, if anyone is interested in pushing a Linux solution to a > school district (say for instance K12LTSP), Stillwater is a stirred up > pot that could congeal in any of a number of several configurations... That's certainly a good possibility--if they have an old lab they're replacing...a bunch of old Macs (if they are at least PPC-linux capable) or PC's, a bunch of us could certainly go over there and setup a trial terminal server farm for them and see what they think. :) Ryan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Thu Dec 18 12:41:49 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kind of a different question In-Reply-To: <1071770917.a0d94be0Daniel.Post@st.bemidjistate.edu> Message-ID: I would suggest fluxbox. (but that's just because it's what I use...) Flux has two menu files to read from. Either ~/.fluxbox/menu or /usr/share/commonbox/menu. (I think) It's a very simple, look-at-it-and-you-get-it, kind of format. You can also make ~/.fluxbox/menu just link to the /usr/share... file, so you have only one file to edit. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if IceWM had a similar setup. The tougher question, I think, is what to do if students are familiar with Linux and can figure out how to get a shell open or something. Even in this case, it would be a minority, and I think I would trust Linux permissions to protect the system from a user-level account. I wish you luck in doing this! Also, Xandros (commercial) or Lindows might be worth looking at, if they want more than web/word processing. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Post > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 12:09 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] kind of a different question > > > I am trying to push a high school to use linux by installing > a k12ltsp.org (ltsp on Redhat 8) server and a few thin > clients. More will be purchased if I am able to please > everyone with the results. > > Install was easily done. Now they have one interesting > request: they want me to try to remove all or at least most > of the programs listed in the mini "start menus" that show up > when you get into, say, KDE, GNOME, etc (I've got several > desktops installed). The one they like best (for simplicity-- > the idea is to keep students focused on their word processing > or web research, not clicking all over trying to find stuff > to break. I know, there are a hundred arguments against this, > that's not what I need right now) is IceWM. > > So, how do I modify (IceWM|KDE|GNOME|.*) so I can control > which menus are available to a given type of user? I've > grepped around a bit with no luck, so now hoping you guys > have some insight. > > TIA > > Dan Post > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at solobanjo.com Thu Dec 18 12:51:39 2003 From: tclug at solobanjo.com (Benjamin Flaming) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest In-Reply-To: <20031218113428.A21569@thinkunix.net> References: <3FE1C01A.8070206@visi.com> <20031218113428.A21569@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <200312181251.39779.tclug@solobanjo.com> On Thursday 18 December 2003 11:34 am, Scot Jenkins wrote: > Samuel MacDonald wrote: > > With the 2.6 kernel out (happy holiday) and most of us Linux newbies not > > getting a clue for Christmas. It would be nice to see the process of > > building a kernel. Installing is one thing but maintaining (upgrading) > > is another. > > Once I see something done by someone who knows what they are doing, I'm > > more likely to try it my self. > > ah, live a little Sam! take a crack at it yourself and then you'll have > better questions when the experts are around. The kernel documentation > is what got me started way back when. See /usr/src/linux/README and > /usr/src/linux/Documentation/* > > If that isn't enough there are plenty of HOWTO's and websites detailing > how to roll your own kernel. Really, it's a pretty simple process. And the 2.6 kernel build system makes it even simpler. You just type: make menuconfig (for text-based configuration) make xconfig (for GUI-based config using the Qt libraries - my preference) or make gconfig (for GUI-based config using the GTK+ libraries) Then: make (this builds the kernel and modules) make modules_install (too obvious for comment) cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/kernel-2.6.0 (install your new kernel) And finish by adding the appropriate lines to your boot-loader's configuration, in order to add another boot option. This can be tricky at first, but as long as you keep your old kernel available as a menu option, you've got nothing to worry about. One thing to be aware of, is that you *will* need to install module-init-tools if you use any modules in your 2.6 kernel. Source can be downloaded from: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/rusty/modules/ RPMs can be downloaded elsewhere. There are always a few other twists and turns, but I agree with the rest of the comments - read the documentation and give it a try :) |) |)enji _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Dec 18 12:39:42 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kind of a different question In-Reply-To: <1071770917.a0d94be0Daniel.Post@st.bemidjistate.edu> References: <1071770917.a0d94be0Daniel.Post@st.bemidjistate.edu> Message-ID: <3FE1F46E.4030504@comcast.net> Not sure if it helps, but Mandrake has a GUI called MenuDrake in the Mandrake Control Panel, that allows you to add/remove items from the "start" menu. Perhaps Redhat has something similar? Daniel Post wrote: > I am trying to push a high school to use linux by installing a k12ltsp.org (ltsp on Redhat 8) server and a few thin clients. More will be purchased if I am able to please everyone with the results. > > Install was easily done. Now they have one interesting request: they want me to try to remove all or at least most of the programs listed in the mini "start menus" that show up when you get into, say, KDE, GNOME, etc (I've got several desktops installed). The one they like best (for simplicity-- the idea is to keep students focused on their word processing or web research, not clicking all over trying to find stuff to break. I know, there are a hundred arguments against this, that's not what I need right now) is IceWM. > > So, how do I modify (IceWM|KDE|GNOME|.*) so I can control which menus are available to a given type of user? I've grepped around a bit with no luck, so now hoping you guys have some insight. > > TIA > > Dan Post -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Dec 18 13:10:09 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] vgetty and modems Message-ID: <3FE1FB91.4050000@structural-wood.com> Is anyone here using vgetty? What sort of modem are you using? I can't seem to find any recommendations for a modern modem. I'm using an old Cardinal that works great, but it went out of production in 1996. (Well, OK the cardinal works great *except* that it is a little tinny because it supports a max recording/ playback rate of 8 bit at 7200 bps - It would be nice to go 16 bit @ 8000 bps or better). Thanks, Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Thu Dec 18 13:57:03 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest In-Reply-To: <200312181251.39779.tclug@solobanjo.com>; from tclug@solobanjo.com on Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 12:51:39PM -0600 References: <3FE1C01A.8070206@visi.com> <20031218113428.A21569@thinkunix.net> <200312181251.39779.tclug@solobanjo.com> Message-ID: <20031218135703.A2191@thinkunix.net> Benjamin Flaming wrote: > And the 2.6 kernel build system makes it even simpler. You just type: > > make menuconfig (for text-based configuration) > make xconfig (for GUI-based config using the Qt libraries - my preference) > or > make gconfig (for GUI-based config using the GTK+ libraries) > > Then: > make (this builds the kernel and modules) > make modules_install (too obvious for comment) > cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/kernel-2.6.0 (install your new kernel) How is this any different then the build process for 2.0.x-2.4.x kernels? I haven't had a need for a 2.6.x kernel yet, but the process sounds identical. Doesn't sound "new and improved" to me. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cncole at earthlink.net Thu Dec 18 14:12:03 2003 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In the mid '60s, we were still doing math by rubbing sticks together :-) Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Nate Carlson > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 12:33 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools > > > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > > We didn't have any computers in the high school I went to. That was > > 1974-77 so that sort of explains it :) > > Really? You didn't have calculators back then? :) > > -- > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Dec 18 14:27:42 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312182027.hBIKRg017247@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: 3com Network Adapters I have about 20 3com Etherlink III ISA network cards: $4 ea. and 4 3Com PCI (3c905-tx) network cards: $6 ea. I am located in Burnsville. I am in the process of or will test when someone is interested. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu Dec 18 14:32:38 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest In-Reply-To: <20031218135703.A2191@thinkunix.net> References: <3FE1C01A.8070206@visi.com> <20031218113428.A21569@thinkunix.net><200312181251.39779.tclug@solobanjo.com> <20031218135703.A2191@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <4912.156.99.116.45.1071779558.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> > How is this any different then the build process for 2.0.x-2.4.x kernels? > I haven't had a need for a 2.6.x kernel yet, but the process sounds > identical. Doesn't sound "new and improved" to me. Some of the more experienced folks can correct me, but they've removed a few steps. make now makes the bzImage and the modules, which it didn't before IIRC. I played with some of the test kernels, and the compile porcess looks VERY different. No more rubbish on the screen, they've cleaned it up so much that you can now actually figure out what it's compiling at any given time. The procedure for compiling plus the pretty new look and feel of the compile process deserve the "new and imporved" branding IMHO. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Thu Dec 18 14:39:06 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <000801c3c539$a64e6870$0201a8c0@brinstar> <1071748420.3591.75.camel@bigtime> <3FE1BC98.3040805@visi.com> <3FE1C634.9060306@structural-wood.com> <1071762772.7099.934.camel@lotsa> <3FE1D328.3080109@visi.com> Message-ID: <1071779945.7099.1113.camel@lotsa> On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 12:33, Nate Carlson wrote: > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > > We didn't have any computers in the high school I went to. That was > > 1974-77 so that sort of explains it :) > > Really? You didn't have calculators back then? :) I remember my parents buying one of the first consumer "portable digital calculators" for my oldest sister when she went to off to collage. It was $150. It had add, subtract, multiply, divide and square root with an 8 digit readout. I couldn't play with it. It was too expencive. That was mid 70's. -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 18 15:00:35 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FE21573.2050309@visi.com> That was called a slide rule and I learned how to use one. I couldn't remember today but I could re learn. To think we sent men to space using slide rules. Sam. Chuck Cole wrote: >In the mid '60s, we were still doing math by rubbing sticks together :-) > >Chuck > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >>[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Nate Carlson >>Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 12:33 PM >>To: TCLUG Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools >> >> >>On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Samuel MacDonald wrote: >> >> >>>We didn't have any computers in the high school I went to. That was >>>1974-77 so that sort of explains it :) >>> >>> >>Really? You didn't have calculators back then? :) >> >>-- >>Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 >>http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at solobanjo.com Thu Dec 18 14:55:07 2003 From: tclug at solobanjo.com (Benjamin Flaming) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest In-Reply-To: <4912.156.99.116.45.1071779558.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> References: <3FE1C01A.8070206@visi.com> <20031218135703.A2191@thinkunix.net> <4912.156.99.116.45.1071779558.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> Message-ID: <200312181455.07455.tclug@solobanjo.com> On Thursday 18 December 2003 02:32 pm, Brian wrote: > > How is this any different then the build process for 2.0.x-2.4.x kernels? > > I haven't had a need for a 2.6.x kernel yet, but the process sounds > > identical. Doesn't sound "new and improved" to me. > > Some of the more experienced folks can correct me, but they've removed a > few steps. make now makes the bzImage and the modules, which it didn't > before IIRC. Yep. No more: make dep make bzImage make modules Just: make The graphical configuration tools are also *much* better than the ones in 2.4, IMHO. The option of using either Qt or GTK+ for these is also new. Finally, as Brian says, they've cleaned up the output of the build process. All you see (by default) is the name of the command which is being run, the name of the file on which it is being run, and any warnings or error messages. |) |)enji _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Thu Dec 18 15:13:13 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:53 2005 Subject: [OT] Calculators (was RE: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools) In-Reply-To: <1071779945.7099.1113.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: Speaking of old calculators, this month's Scientific American has a good article on the Curta calculator, a pocket-sized, (salt-shaker-sized, rather) mechanical (hand-crank!) calculator capable of +-/*^ and sqrt (using some formulas in combination...) Very interesting, very cool, and apparently very rare. I think it can do something like 15 digits of precision. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Tom Penney > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 2:39 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools > > > On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 12:33, Nate Carlson wrote: > > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > > > We didn't have any computers in the high school I went > to. That was > > > 1974-77 so that sort of explains it :) > > > > Really? You didn't have calculators back then? :) > > I remember my parents buying one of the first consumer > "portable digital calculators" for my oldest sister when she > went to off to collage. It was $150. It had add, subtract, > multiply, divide and square root with an 8 digit readout. I > couldn't play with it. It was too expencive. That was mid 70's. > > -- > Tom Penney > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gsker at tcfreenet.org Thu Dec 18 15:10:32 2003 From: gsker at tcfreenet.org (Gerald Skerbitz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest In-Reply-To: <200312181251.39779.tclug@solobanjo.com> Message-ID: <20031218150626.V15776-100000@tcfreenet.org> Or just make install. That will update your boot loader for you and put stuff in /boot for you too! I did a make install before I did a make modules_install and ended up having to create /lib/modules/2.6.0 manually as a result. I also never got the qt based make xconfig working. The gconfig worked the first time. YMMV. That said, I haven't gotten the modules-init-tools yet, so I haven't actually booted my shiny new kernel yet. :-) Gerry -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@tcfreenet.org http://www.kucinich.us On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Benjamin Flaming wrote: > make menuconfig (for text-based configuration) > make xconfig (for GUI-based config using the Qt libraries - my preference) > or > make gconfig (for GUI-based config using the GTK+ libraries) > > Then: > > make (this builds the kernel and modules) > make modules_install (too obvious for comment) > cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/kernel-2.6.0 (install your new kernel) > > And finish by adding the appropriate lines to your boot-loader's > configuration, in order to add another boot option. This can be tricky at > first, but as long as you keep your old kernel available as a menu option, > you've got nothing to worry about. > > One thing to be aware of, is that you *will* need to install module-init-tools > if you use any modules in your 2.6 kernel. Source can be downloaded from: > > http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/rusty/modules/ > > RPMs can be downloaded elsewhere. > > There are always a few other twists and turns, but I agree with the rest of > the comments - read the documentation and give it a try :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Thu Dec 18 15:19:00 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: [OT] Calculators In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12158.144.15.255.227.1071782340.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com> > From: Samuel MacDonald > That was called a slide rule and I learned how to use one. I couldn't > remember today but I could re learn. > To think we sent men to space using slide rules. > > Sam. > > Chuck Cole wrote: > >>In the mid '60s, we were still doing math by rubbing sticks together >> :-) Scientific American has an article in the Jan. 04 issue about a handheld mechanical calculator with an 8-digit readout. Designed by a Jew in a concentration camp. It cost $125 though, so when the fancy LED calculators got down to that price, they stopped making them. http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0008177C-EA28-1FD3-A7EA83414B7F012C&catID=2 Very cool story. You have to subscribe or get the paper version to read it, though. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Thu Dec 18 15:31:04 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <1071779945.7099.1113.camel@lotsa> References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <000801c3c539$a64e6870$0201a8c0@brinstar> <1071748420.3591.75.camel@bigtime> <3FE1BC98.3040805@visi.com> <3FE1C634.9060306@structural-wood.com> <1071762772.7099.934.camel@lotsa> <3FE1D328.3080109@visi.com> <1071779945.7099.1113.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <3FE21C98.9000103@visi.com> I learned to use a slide rule in the 7th grade which was 1968. We also had a simple programmable HP lab calculator that was the size of a suitcase, had a display of a dozen or so nixie tubes and had something like 512 bytes of memory. We also had timesharing access to a GE 350 mainframe - through MECC I think - with one of those old 110 baud teletype units with the punch tape reader. I bought my first calculator, a TI Datamath, in 1973 for $100 that would add, subtract, multiply and divide. That got replaced with an HP-35 the next year when I headed off to UMD. I think it was on sale for $300 or so. Most of the freshmen class in physics were still using slide rules in '74 but when my youger brother started the next fall almost everyone had an HP or TI scientific calculator. I was in a biostat class a couple of weeks ago when one of the students wanted to know why the SAS command to read in data is called CARDS. Man I'm getting old :-) --rick Tom Penney wrote: >On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 12:33, Nate Carlson wrote: > > >>On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Samuel MacDonald wrote: >> >> >>>We didn't have any computers in the high school I went to. That was >>>1974-77 so that sort of explains it :) >>> >>> >>Really? You didn't have calculators back then? :) >> >> > >I remember my parents buying one of the first consumer "portable digital >calculators" for my oldest sister when she went to off to collage. It >was $150. It had add, subtract, multiply, divide and square root with an >8 digit readout. I couldn't play with it. It was too expencive. That was >mid 70's. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Thu Dec 18 15:38:53 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:53 2005 Subject: [OT] Calculators (was RE: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1071783532.7099.1187.camel@lotsa> On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 15:13, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > Speaking of old calculators, this month's Scientific American has a good > article on the Curta calculator, a pocket-sized, (salt-shaker-sized, > rather) mechanical (hand-crank!) calculator capable of +-/*^ and sqrt > (using some formulas in combination...) > > Very interesting, very cool, and apparently very rare. I think it can do > something like 15 digits of precision. It's really strange that you mentioned that. I have a friend who owns one of them. He inherited it. It's very cool. We can't figure out how to run it though, no instructions. Its full of pins, levers, buttons and knobs. Lots of moving parts. -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Thu Dec 18 16:01:48 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:53 2005 Subject: [OT] Calculators (was RE: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools) In-Reply-To: <1071783532.7099.1187.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: Heh, "loan" it to me, and I'll tell ya! I think the article said these are rather valuable items to possess now. The article also explains a little how to use them. Tell your friend to check it out, maybe he'll realize what he's got. John > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Tom Penney > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 3:39 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [OT] Calculators (was RE: [TCLUG] Minnesota > Computers For Schools) > > > On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 15:13, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > > Speaking of old calculators, this month's Scientific American has a > > good article on the Curta calculator, a pocket-sized, > > (salt-shaker-sized, > > rather) mechanical (hand-crank!) calculator capable of > +-/*^ and sqrt > > (using some formulas in combination...) > > > > Very interesting, very cool, and apparently very rare. I > think it can > > do something like 15 digits of precision. > > It's really strange that you mentioned that. I have a friend > who owns one of them. He inherited it. It's very cool. We > can't figure out how to run it though, no instructions. Its > full of pins, levers, buttons and knobs. Lots of moving parts. > > -- > Tom Penney > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com Thu Dec 18 16:07:12 2003 From: LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com (Lawrence Clemens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <002f01c3c58f$8e151f50$24fea8c0@computer> Message-ID: <009801c3c5b3$49e7c610$24fea8c0@computer> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Thu Dec 18 16:19:25 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <009801c3c5b3$49e7c610$24fea8c0@computer> Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at ehanson.net Thu Dec 18 16:17:42 2003 From: erik at ehanson.net (Erik Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:53 2005 Subject: [OT] Calculators (was RE: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools) In-Reply-To: References: <1071783532.7099.1187.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <4901.216.70.45.162.1071785862.squirrel@mail.ehanson.net> > Heh, "loan" it to me, and I'll tell ya! I think the article said these > are rather valuable items to possess now. The article also explains a > little how to use them. Tell your friend to check it out, maybe he'll > realize what he's got. > > John I looked on ebay and there were two, one was going for ~1200 one for about ~1500 so yeah, seems valuable. And pretty darn cool. :) -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Thu Dec 18 16:48:15 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <009801c3c5b3$49e7c610$24fea8c0@computer> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Lawrence Clemens wrote: > Now has anyone got a Linux with GUI that will run on a 266MHz machine > with 64 MB RAM? Thanks. yes debian stable with blackbox, is it as fast as a plain windows95 install? no does it do more than a plain windows95 install? yes -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Dec 18 16:49:58 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <009801c3c5b3$49e7c610$24fea8c0@computer> References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <002f01c3c58f$8e151f50$24fea8c0@computer> <009801c3c5b3$49e7c610$24fea8c0@computer> Message-ID: <20031218164958.A23507@baker.space.umn.edu> On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 04:07:12PM -0600, Lawrence Clemens wrote: > Fine. I was using a slide rule before most TCLUGers were born. But still you top post? ;) > Now has anyone got a Linux with GUI that will run on a 266MHz > machine with 64 MB RAM? Thanks. I'll Windowmaker to the list already posted. It has worked fine for me down to 32 MB RAM. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Dec 18 17:22:54 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools Message-ID: I challenge the notion that to have "scope and breadth" one must give computers to computer illiterates for use in their homes. Linux may not be the best solution for what you wish to do right now. With Linux in more places, like school labs, that may change. Linux terminal server clients do not require a 166MHz pentium with 32MB of RAM. My P75 with 16MB was a very nice and speedy X terminal client, but I don't know if I needed that much power. This solution also becomes much easier to manage as more clients are added, compared to a Win* solution (with the possible exception of WinCE thin terminals, but ick!). That's probably why Ryan mentioned it. >>> LCLEMENS@mn.rr.com 12/18/03 04:07PM >>> Fine. I was using a slide rule before most TCLUGers were born. Now has anyone got a Linux with GUI that will run on a 266MHz machine with 64 MB RAM? Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Clemens Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools I believe this organization supplies free computers to needy kids from low income families. I believe they take donated computers and install an MS OS on them and other software. They pay an intermediate organization a $5 license fee for each W98 SE or W2K they install, this fee covers the intermediate organization's record keeping and policing these programs (nationwide) to make sure the recipients (could be kids, low-income adults, single moms with no computer skills, etc.) meet Microsoft's requirements and that see that licenses don't get pirated and that some accounting or record keeping is kept. That makes them Microsoft Approved Refurbishers. You can see the whole program at https://www.techsoup.org/mar/ If you want to do a charitable program that has some breadth and scope, the MS way is presently the only way to go, much as I'd like to think Linux has a shot. Here's why: most of the computers that would be available for donation or for purchase by lot at auction for a reasonable price are going to be Pentium 1 and 2's with speeds about 166 to 300 MHz, maybe as high as 450 MHz. Older machines like 386's and 486's are to slow for any practical use with W98 (MS does not support W95). So one can load the OS and then a lot of freeware (OO, Abiword, lots more to make it functional). One can put on a cheap winmodem ($10 or less) and access the Internet. (The only modems that would work on 386 and 486's would be the more expensive hardware modems or the few remaining modems that sold as expensive " ISA legacy replacements".) Why won't Linux work? Several reasons: All practical computer use by ordinary people is done with a GUI. The Linux GUI is getting better and better but at a speed cost. So while W98 will run perfectly fine on a 166 MHz machine with 32 MB RAM, I challenge anyone to show me a Linux system with a functional GUI that will run on even a 266MHz P2 with 64 MB RAM. (I've tried mainstream stuff like SuSE and Mandrake, and the trimmed down offerings like Koppix, Morphix, and DSL - they can't do it.) Even if you load Open Office on a Windows Pentium machine there better be 64 MB RAM. To my mind this is OK, Linux developers have reasonably gone with the flow to faster machines and designed for them. In a couple of years maybe the low end computers available for donation or auction will be fast enough to run Linux GUI systems. When they are available, they still won't be good products for these kids or moms, because each system has to be configured for the peripherals (rehab volunteers like me have just so much time to donate per machine). So maybe you can put a cheap winmodem on a Linux system (in two years the state of art for Linux has moved some distance in this respect), but odds are very long that it will have to be configured or compiled individually, and the hook up to the Internet (after kid or mom gets this thing home) will not be simple like the Windows setup. Or a printer is not a slam dunk. Say the kid gets home and a week later someone gives him a printer? Lots of luck! Unless his next door neighbor is a System Administrator it won't get configured or compiled, even with the friendliest of systems. Then imagine if someone wanted to add a scanner! Thanks for the chance to speak to this. I think the Linux folks are doing a great job, and maybe closing the gap. But I read the posts to this group with some frequency and see even the adept among you routinely run into the type of problems that I am describing. Look at your Installfests - nifty as they are and you donate a lot of hours to put Linux into beginner's hands. Look at the beginners you are helping: they are often bright young people or old computer hands that just need a push forward. Think about how an installfest for 10 year old's from broken homes would go. So Microsoft has this outreach program that is both charitable and defensive at the same time. Get 'em hooked on Windows early and fight off criticism about operating systems being too expensive for low income people. You can impute bad motives, but the same guy is giving $500 million to fight AIDS around the globe. And does he have a system that works? You bet. BTW if I have gotten it all wrong and you have systems that are dropins to older computers and easily adapt peripherals, I would love to hear from you and get educated. That's what TLUG is for. Thanks for the forum. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Hayle" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 12:55 AM Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools > Is anyone affiliated with or heard of this organization? It sounds like > an absolutely great program, but it has an obvious problem: "Microsoft > Authorized Refurbisher." Linux is the best choice for any school > computer lab--I just hate to see our funding-starved schools wasting > money on MS licenses. MCFS offers a 32-seat PIII Computer Lab for > $8700. Imagine what percentage of that is MS licenses! Must be 20% at > least! > > Anyways, I thought I would see if this topic has ever been brought up > before, either with this organization or as an independent project. > Setting up Linux labs for schools has been a big interest of > mine--especially setting up Linux Terminal Server labs on old > hardware--this alone could save schools thousands, or at the very least > allow them to open additional labs or provide a terminal in every class. > What do you think? > > Ryan > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cncole at earthlink.net Thu Dec 18 17:32:24 2003 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <3FE21573.2050309@visi.com> Message-ID: I have about eight assorted ones in my collection, as well as my original HP 35 and a credit card sized full scientific calculator I still use occasionally... etc. Since getting a good HP calculator program for my Palm phone, I don't carry any extras :-) Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Samuel MacDonald > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 3:01 PM > To: cncole@earthlink.net; TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools > > > That was called a slide rule and I learned how to use one. I couldn't > remember today but I could re learn. > To think we sent men to space using slide rules. > > Sam. > > Chuck Cole wrote: > > >In the mid '60s, we were still doing math by rubbing sticks together :-) > > > >Chuck > > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Dec 18 18:08:56 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] redirecting mail to a different user with procmail In-Reply-To: <776F6286-3186-11D8-BD85-000A95A50472@visi.com> References: <20031218120140.O10265-100000@tcfreenet.org> <776F6286-3186-11D8-BD85-000A95A50472@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031218180856.A23583@baker.space.umn.edu> On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 12:17:40PM -0600, Tim Wilson wrote: > I'm scanning procmailex now. Yep, there are a lot of good examples > there. I guess creating the recipe wasn't the hard part in my mind. I > should have been more clear. In my case the original destination email > address, help@myschool.k12.mn.us, doesn't exist as a regular system > user. Therefore, there's no ~ in which to place a ~/.procmailrc file. > Here's what the relevant entry in /etc/aliases looks like: > > help: "|/usr/bin/rt-mailgate --queue General --action > correspond --url h > ttp://support.myschool.k12.mn.us/" > > So where would the procmail recipe have to live in order to operate on > the "help" alias? I have never used it that way myself, but it seems like /etc/procmailrc is what you probably want. See man procmail. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Dec 18 19:06:22 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wierd 2.6 problem [WAS 2.6 Kernel] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031218190622.5f3fe826.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:04:19 -0600 Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > Just in time for the holidays! > > http://www.kernel.org/ I'm trying 2.6.0 out and it builds fine, and runs fine, but oddly when I boot up I do not see ANY console boot messages, just a black screen. After a while the GDM screen pops up. Any ideas what could cause this? It's an older Gateway 5150 laptop. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Thu Dec 18 19:43:05 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I just does not stop. In-Reply-To: <20031218164603.GG6711@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FE1C0A2.7060902@visi.com> <20031218164603.GG6711@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031218194305.0bf9836e.william.layer@comcast.net> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:46:03 -0600 "Matthew S. Hallacy" wrote: > > Yes, "you just does not stop". Me talk pretty now. -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Thu Dec 18 19:42:32 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:54 2005 Subject: [OT] Calculators (was RE: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools) In-Reply-To: <4901.216.70.45.162.1071785862.squirrel@mail.ehanson.net> References: <1071783532.7099.1187.camel@lotsa> <4901.216.70.45.162.1071785862.squirrel@mail.ehanson.net> Message-ID: <20031218194232.303dd57a.william.layer@comcast.net> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:17:42 -0600 (CST) "Erik Hanson" wrote: > I looked on ebay and there were two, one was going for ~1200 one for about > ~1500 so yeah, seems valuable. Well, I feel foolish now.. I was trying to buy a Curta for my collection about two years ago, but couldn't get one for under $850.. I guess I should have taken one of those. Dammit. The Curta is an interesting device, with a very unusual history. The machine was designed by an inmate of Auschwitz, while he was interned there. He did all the design in his head, and some scratchings on walls, etc. When the allies liberated the camps, he moved to Luxembourg (I believe..) and set up the Curta company to build the machines, using only the design that was in his head. Even in the 1950's, Curtas were very expensive, and only the well-to-do could afford them. Consequently, it's typical to find them in very good shape, complete, and in their little 2-piece screw top metal container. Last time I googled, there was information on operating the machine on one of the Curta enthusiast's websites. Another revolutionary mechanical calculating machine was the Felt Comptometer, designed and built by Torr (Thor) Eugene Felt. They were produced in decent numbers from the late 1800's until the mid-1950's, and looked like a shoebox with buttons on it. At the time, the Comptometer was the only real competiton to the famous Burroughs machine, which was a traditional crank-driven device - and quite beautiful to look at. The really interesting feature of the Comptometer, was that all of the works inside the device were driven directly from pushing the buttons alone.. there was no crank lever on the side, as with most all other mechanical adding machines. This made the Comptometer very fast to use, and allowed single-hand use - no need to keep pulling the crank to register the inputs. Quite a breakthrough, and it rightfully got a patent. God I love old crap. -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Dec 18 19:54:06 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312190154.hBJ1s6E22082@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: ISA Creative Sound Cards I have 3 Creative sound cards, model CT4500. they do not have the wire to the cdrom. $6 ea. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Thu Dec 18 19:49:21 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:54 2005 Subject: [OT] Calculators (was RE: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools) In-Reply-To: <4901.216.70.45.162.1071785862.squirrel@mail.ehanson.net> References: <1071783532.7099.1187.camel@lotsa> <4901.216.70.45.162.1071785862.squirrel@mail.ehanson.net> Message-ID: <1071798561.7099.1699.camel@lotsa> On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 16:17, Erik Hanson wrote: > > Heh, "loan" it to me, and I'll tell ya! I think the article said these > > are rather valuable items to possess now. The article also explains a > > little how to use them. Tell your friend to check it out, maybe he'll > > realize what he's got. > > > > John > > I looked on ebay and there were two, one was going for ~1200 one for about > ~1500 so yeah, seems valuable. > > And pretty darn cool. :) > > -Erik I called my friend and filled him in. Now he wants to sell it. lol. It's a Type I. He needs a part for it, the "Clearing Lever" is snapped off. He plans to replace this part before he sells it. If he still has it when the next TCLUG event happens I will try to barrow it from him and bring it along. It would be a good excuse to finally drag my ass to beer meeting or something. He also found the manual, He couldn't find it when I was looking at it. I see the manuals are all over the place on-line. -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com Thu Dec 18 20:01:41 2003 From: LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com (Lawrence Clemens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools References: Message-ID: <00ed01c3c5d4$0c094aa0$24fea8c0@computer> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Dec 18 21:49:00 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SOLVED! GDM Fonts [WAS: Simple slackware question] In-Reply-To: <000c01c3c402$cb666550$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> References: <20031215225516.00005ee7.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <000c01c3c402$cb666550$2c00a8c0@aurvandil> Message-ID: <20031218214900.113fdac2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> > Found another link that references a GDM config file, > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/garnome-list/2002-September/msg00310.html Perfect, this one fixed it right up. Added -dpi 100 to /etc/gdm/gdm.conf Thanks, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Thu Dec 18 22:18:39 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> Message-ID: <4499.192.1.1.23.1071807519.squirrel@dccmn.com> Ryan Hayle said: > Is anyone affiliated with or heard of this organization? It sounds like > an absolutely great program, but it has an obvious problem: "Microsoft > Authorized Refurbisher." Linux is the best choice for any school > computer lab--I just hate to see our funding-starved schools wasting > money on MS licenses. MCFS offers a 32-seat PIII Computer Lab for > $8700. Imagine what percentage of that is MS licenses! Must be 20% at > least! Actually, MS is giving Win98 away to schools, at least for now. > Anyways, I thought I would see if this topic has ever been brought up > before, either with this organization or as an independent project. > Setting up Linux labs for schools has been a big interest of > mine--especially setting up Linux Terminal Server labs on old > hardware--this alone could save schools thousands, or at the very least > allow them to open additional labs or provide a terminal in every class. Our school uses both Windows and Linux. Windows as destops and Linux for servers. Most of the software used by the classes will only run on Windows. Things like typing tutor, Office, Adobe Photoshop, etc. Realistically, Linux is still developing in the desktop relm. Yea, there are those that think it's capable of doing anything, but a school desktop is a lot more than just a web browser. Any school that limits it to that is wasting the tax payers money. HCA will be offering a dynamic web class this spring with Apache, PHP and MySql. Please save your flames and insults for someone who'll read them. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Thu Dec 18 22:35:11 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnny fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:55 2005 Subject: WM for old Hardware - was Re: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <00ed01c3c5d4$0c094aa0$24fea8c0@computer> References: <00ed01c3c5d4$0c094aa0$24fea8c0@computer> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:01:41 -0600, Lawrence Clemens wrote: > MessageThanks for these suggestions! If these work or if any other > TCLUGers have suggestions that work, the reward is my Post Versalog > slide rule (circa 1957) complete with leather case and belt buckle > loop. The cursor is missing on one side, but I think you can devise a > work around ;) I have Gentoo and Fluxbox on my p2 400 -best choice I've made (I've had redhat and mandrake and Lycrios and ....) I like flux AND Gentoo so much that I wiped my main linux box last week and compiled gentoo and flux from scratch - both systems are fast as all get out! Man I like gentoo... and flux - just tickles me pink! I actually go through some withdrawl over the weekend.... can't wait for mondays to play on my ultra super fast neat-o Gentoo/fluxbox box...pretty sick eh? Did I mention that I like slide rules too? would you like to maybe even sell yours? - :) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John T. Hoffoss > To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:19 PM > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools > > > Fluxbox. Blackbox. IceWM. FVWM. FVWM2. All simple to use, simple to > configure. low memory usage, fast loading. I've used flux on my p2-300 > laptop for quite awhile now, and as soon as X has the screen drawn, my > desktop is up. No progress bar, no ugly X-default background until the > window manager starts, it's just there. > > If you're looking for a full desktop environment, the pickin's get > slimmer, but many of these will still work. There are other apps that > will allow icons and such. Rox Desktop comes to mind, though I've never > used it or heard many great things about it. > > Hope that's a good start. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Clemens > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:07 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools > > > Fine. I was using a slide rule before most TCLUGers were born. > > Now has anyone got a Linux with GUI that will run on a 266MHz > machine with 64 MB RAM? Thanks. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lawrence Clemens > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:51 AM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools > > > I believe this organization supplies free computers to needy kids > from low income families. I believe they take donated computers and > install an MS OS on them and other software. They pay an intermediate > organization a $5 license fee for each W98 SE or W2K they install, this > fee covers the intermediate organization's record keeping and policing > these programs (nationwide) to make sure the recipients (could be kids, > low-income adults, single moms with no computer skills, etc.) meet > Microsoft's requirements and that see that licenses don't get pirated > and that some accounting or record keeping is kept. That makes them > Microsoft Approved Refurbishers. You can see the whole program at > https://www.techsoup.org/mar/ > > If you want to do a charitable program that has some breadth and > scope, the MS way is presently the only way to go, much as I'd like to > think Linux has a shot. Here's why: most of the computers that would > be available for donation or for purchase by lot at auction for a > reasonable price are going to be Pentium 1 and 2's with speeds about 166 > to 300 MHz, maybe as high as 450 MHz. Older machines like 386's and > 486's are to slow for any practical use with W98 (MS does not support > W95). So one can load the OS and then a lot of freeware (OO, Abiword, > lots more to make it functional). One can put on a cheap winmodem ($10 > or less) and access the Internet. (The only modems that would work on > 386 and 486's would be the more expensive hardware modems or the few > remaining modems that sold as expensive " ISA legacy replacements".) > > Why won't Linux work? Several reasons: > > All practical computer use by ordinary people is done with a GUI. > The Linux GUI is getting better and better but at a speed cost. So > while W98 will run perfectly fine on a 166 MHz machine with 32 MB RAM, I > challenge anyone to show me a Linux system with a functional GUI that > will run on even a 266MHz P2 with 64 MB RAM. (I've tried mainstream > stuff like SuSE and Mandrake, and the trimmed down offerings like > Koppix, Morphix, and DSL - they can't do it.) Even if you load Open > Office on a Windows Pentium machine there better be 64 MB RAM. To my > mind this is OK, Linux developers have reasonably gone with the flow to > faster machines and designed for them. In a couple of years maybe the > low end computers available for donation or auction will be fast enough > to run Linux GUI systems. > > When they are available, they still won't be good products for > these kids or moms, because each system has to be configured for the > peripherals (rehab volunteers like me have just so much time to donate > per machine). So maybe you can put a cheap winmodem on a Linux system > (in two years the state of art for Linux has moved some distance in this > respect), but odds are very long that it will have to be configured or > compiled individually, and the hook up to the Internet (after kid or mom > gets this thing home) will not be simple like the Windows setup. Or a > printer is not a slam dunk. Say the kid gets home and a week later > someone gives him a printer? Lots of luck! Unless his next door > neighbor is a System Administrator it won't get configured or compiled, > even with the friendliest of systems. Then imagine if someone wanted to > add a scanner! > > Thanks for the chance to speak to this. I think the Linux folks > are doing a great job, and maybe closing the gap. But I read the posts > to this group with some frequency and see even the adept among you > routinely run into the type of problems that I am describing. Look at > your Installfests - nifty as they are and you donate a lot of hours to > put Linux into beginner's hands. Look at the beginners you are helping: > they are often bright young people or old computer hands that just need > a push forward. Think about how an installfest for 10 year old's from > broken homes would go. > > So Microsoft has this outreach program that is both charitable and > defensive at the same time. Get 'em hooked on Windows early and fight > off criticism about operating systems being too expensive for low income > people. You can impute bad motives, but the same guy is giving $500 > million to fight AIDS around the globe. And does he have a system that > works? You bet. > > BTW if I have gotten it all wrong and you have systems that are > dropins to older computers and easily adapt peripherals, I would love to > hear from you and get educated. That's what TLUG is for. Thanks for > the forum. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ryan Hayle" > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 12:55 AM > Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools > > > > Is anyone affiliated with or heard of this organization? It > sounds like > > an absolutely great program, but it has an obvious problem: > "Microsoft > > Authorized Refurbisher." Linux is the best choice for any school > > computer lab--I just hate to see our funding-starved schools > wasting > > money on MS licenses. MCFS offers a 32-seat PIII Computer Lab > for > > $8700. Imagine what percentage of that is MS licenses! Must be > 20% at > > least! > > > > Anyways, I thought I would see if this topic has ever been > brought up > > before, either with this organization or as an independent > project. > > Setting up Linux labs for schools has been a big interest of > > mine--especially setting up Linux Terminal Server labs on old > > hardware--this alone could save schools thousands, or at the > very least > > allow them to open additional labs or provide a terminal in > every class. > > What do you think? > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Dec 18 23:19:49 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wierd 2.6 problem [WAS 2.6 Kernel] In-Reply-To: <20031218190622.5f3fe826.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031218190622.5f3fe826.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1071811188.21640.5.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wdradomski at juno.com Fri Dec 19 00:11:34 2003 From: wdradomski at juno.com (Wm. D Radomski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] apache 2.0.47 question Message-ID: <20031219.001152.-3807913.1.wdradomski@juno.com> Oh, re-reading the string tells me that I lept hastily. Sorry Todd. I do like Sam's "nun filter" idea though : ) On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:25:56 -0600 Todd Young writes: > No, I think the accountability factor in requiring a log-in/log-out > is > GREAT! Kids using computers NEED to be taught proper security > procedures. I was truly amazed at my last job how many people would > walk > away from their PCs without locking them. With open screens to the > mainframe TOO! My wife's company has recently enacted a mandatory > "password protected" screen saver, with a timeout of 10 minutes. As > most > people know, this is an easy registry change for the desktop admin > group, and I'm sure they keep track of people who change it and if > it's > changed too often, it's probably reported to the person's manager. > > You must have misunderstood my statement. I was merely suggesting > that > at first you would get kids who would not log out properly, and then > > others would use their account for making trouble. And I'm sure they > > would cry and moan about any disciplinary action. They would have > to be > disciplined the same as those making the actual trouble as their > lack of > security led to the problem. They may not like it, but the perhaps > they > would learn their lesson after the first disciplinary action. > > Wm. D Radomski wrote: > > Todd > > Is there any empirical evidence that a requirement of > accountability > > is either harmful or unfair? A mandatory log-in/log-out would do > well > > to solve both the security/control issues and further the > exposure of > > the students to what will be expected of them in the > post-educational > > (for most of us, the "real") world. Non-compliance could be > easily > > tracked, and would simply result in a metered limit of access. Is > this > > simple bit of logic beyond our current state of educational > politics? > > > > (naively?) > > Bill > > > > On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:55:06 -0600 Todd Young > > > writes: > > > >>I think people are missing the point..... > >> > >>This is a number of schools, with a network of "publicly" used > >>computers, at least public in the sense that any number of > students > >>in > >>the schools can access these computers. Unless the ".pl page" is > >>accessible to the "outside" world, filtering by IP would not solve > > >>the > >>problem. If the page is accessible from the outside world, then a > >>filter > >>to allow only IPs within the school system would be partially > >>effective. > >> > >>I think the only way to solve the problem would be to implement a > >>"log > >>on" standard across all of the computers at all of the schools > >>involved. > >>Forcing the students to log on to use a computer would provide a > two > >> > >>fold solution. First, it would get them used to proper computer > >>security > >>in a shared-PC environment. Second, it would allow you to "track" > >>mischievous behavior. This is not a perfect solution, but I don't > >>think > >>there is a perfect solution. > >> > >>There is a catch. If a student fails to properly log out of their > >>session, someone could use that session to send the mischievous > >>messages. Even if a student didn't send the message, but failed to > > >>properly log out, they could be reprimanded for not following > proper > >> > >>security standards. > >> > >>Once the message gets out that "you can be tracked down by your > >>login", > >>students will be less likely to cause problems, AND more aware of > >>security measures that protect their "identity". > >> > >>Callum Lerwick wrote: > >> > >>>>I run a content filter at a number of schools. When a site is > >> > >>banned the > >> > >>>>user gets a .pl page to fill out on my server explaining why > they > >> > >>think the > >> > >>>>site should not be blocked. I get an email of their comments > each > >> > >>time the > >> > >>>>form is submitted. Lately, some people with too much time on > their > >> > >>hands are > >> > >>>>bringing the page up from my web site and sending me some cute, > >> > >>simple > >> > >>>>minded messages. Is there something I can add to httpd.conf that > > >> > >>will only > >> > >>>>allow the page to be pulled up if it is requested from a > specific > >> > >>IP or > >> > >>>>network? > >>> > >>> > >>>If its a script to begin with, the cleanest thing would probably > >> > >>be to > >> > >>>just add some code to the script to ignore anyone coming from the > > >> > >>wrong > >> > >>>IP. Dunno how to do it in perl offhand, but the REMOTE_ADDR cgi > >> > >>variable > >> > >>>should be what you want... > >> > >>-- > >>Todd Young > >>7079 Dawn Ave. E. > >>Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- > Todd Young > 7079 Dawn Ave. E. > Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wdradomski at juno.com Fri Dec 19 00:25:45 2003 From: wdradomski at juno.com (Wm. D Radomski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools Message-ID: <20031219.002550.-3807913.2.wdradomski@juno.com> Yeah, they had 12in long TI units that you had to run on whale oil :) On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:33:08 -0600 (CST) Nate Carlson writes: > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > > We didn't have any computers in the high school I went to. That > was > > 1974-77 so that sort of explains it :) > > Really? You didn't have calculators back then? :) > > -- > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Dec 19 00:56:33 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wierd 2.6 problem [WAS 2.6 Kernel] In-Reply-To: <1071811188.21640.5.camel@3po> References: <20031218190622.5f3fe826.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <1071811188.21640.5.camel@3po> Message-ID: <20031219005633.433b156b.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> > Eeesh. I thought someone was going to fix that. It's a common problem, > because the default kernel configuration doesn't have support for the > local text/framebuffer console built in. It was my impression that > someone was going to go through and make the default configuration be > much more reasonable for normal people, rather than having options set > willy-nilly. > > Anyway, just search for "linux 2.6 black screen" or some variants > thereof. I think almost everyone who has tried 2.6 has run into that > problem at one point or another. Thanks, but I gave up on 2.6.0 for the time being. I could tolerate the black screen but I am also getting really nasty mouse behavior. It works in 2.4.22, maybe I'll try back when I have time to debug/research. I actually copied my existing 2.4.22 config and did make oldconfig so shouldn't that have overridden the frame buffer problem? Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Fri Dec 19 01:04:45 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools Message-ID: I was thinking Linux is more suited to computer programming instruction, but I think typing tutor, office, and photoshop are bad examples of what linux "can't" do right now, with the possible exception of typing tutor (haven't used one recently, don't know). And I don't think limiting desktops to browsers wastes as much money as other "activities": upgrading software "to be compatible" or to "fix bugs", and replacing hardware and software on a 3 year "business" cycle. "Business cycle" -- hehe -- as if they were making money. --- Troy Johnson - troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us Programmer / System Administrator Minnesota Cancer Surveillance System - MDH >>> waynej@dccmn.com 12/18/03 10:18 PM >>> Yea, there are those that think it's capable of doing anything, but a school desktop is a lot more than just a web browser. Any school that limits it to that is wasting the tax payers money. HCA will be offering a dynamic web class this spring with Apache, PHP and MySql. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Fri Dec 19 05:52:57 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:55 2005 Subject: WM for old Hardware - was Re: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: References: <00ed01c3c5d4$0c094aa0$24fea8c0@computer> Message-ID: <20031219055257.60fa7d7a.sfertch@real-time.com> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:35:11 -0600 johnny fulcrum wrote: > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:01:41 -0600, Lawrence Clemens > wrote: > > > MessageThanks for these suggestions! If these work or if any > > other TCLUGers have suggestions that work, the reward is my Post > > Versalog slide rule (circa 1957) complete with leather case and > > belt buckle loop. The cursor is missing on one side, but I think > > you can devise a work around ;) > > > I have Gentoo and Fluxbox on my p2 400 -best choice I've made (I've > had redhat and mandrake and Lycrios and ....) > > I like flux AND Gentoo so much that I wiped my main linux box last > week and compiled gentoo and flux from scratch - both systems are > fast as all get out! > > Man I like gentoo... and flux - just tickles me pink! > > I actually go through some withdrawl over the weekend.... can't wait > for mondays to play on my ultra super fast neat-o Gentoo/fluxbox > box...pretty sick eh? > > Did I mention that I like slide rules too? would you like to maybe > even sell yours? - :) I used to have an IBM Thinkpad P2-300 that I'd run Slackware on, and I used fvwm2 on it. I still use fvwm2, even on my P4-2.53GHz desktop. At work my desktop is a P2-266, and fvwm2 runs just as nicely there as at home. Slackware + fvwm2 = bliss for me! =) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Fri Dec 19 07:44:10 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wierd 2.6 problem [WAS 2.6 Kernel] In-Reply-To: <20031219005633.433b156b.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Dec 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > I actually copied my existing 2.4.22 config and did make oldconfig so > shouldn't that have overridden the frame buffer problem? heh.. that is one of the things that all the articles on 2.6 said that you should _not_ be doing because of this :) -- Munir Nassar Systems Administrator RedConcepts.NET _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jonathon at quotidian.org Fri Dec 19 07:56:09 2003 From: jonathon at quotidian.org (Jonathon Jongsma) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest (Kernel 2.6) In-Reply-To: <200312181251.39779.tclug@solobanjo.com> References: <3FE1C01A.8070206@visi.com> <20031218113428.A21569@thinkunix.net> <200312181251.39779.tclug@solobanjo.com> Message-ID: <3FE30379.8070102@quotidian.org> >And the 2.6 kernel build system makes it even simpler. You just type: > >make menuconfig (for text-based configuration) >make xconfig (for GUI-based config using the Qt libraries - my preference) >or >make gconfig (for GUI-based config using the GTK+ libraries) > >Then: > >make (this builds the kernel and modules) >make modules_install (too obvious for comment) >cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/kernel-2.6.0 (install your new kernel) > >And finish by adding the appropriate lines to your boot-loader's >configuration, in order to add another boot option. This can be tricky at >first, but as long as you keep your old kernel available as a menu option, >you've got nothing to worry about. > >One thing to be aware of, is that you *will* need to install module-init-tools >if you use any modules in your 2.6 kernel. Source can be downloaded from: > >http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/rusty/modules/ > >RPMs can be downloaded elsewhere. > >There are always a few other twists and turns, but I agree with the rest of >the comments - read the documentation and give it a try :) > >|) >|)enji > > > > Wow, that is easier. I'm a relative novice, and I've tried unsuccessfully to compile 2.4 series kernels before. But this one was quick and easy. I don't know for certain that _everything_ is working perfectly, but it seems to boot fine. Jonathon _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Fri Dec 19 13:49:26 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB -> Serial adapters for telnet? In-Reply-To: <1071712288.3fe10820f3ba7@208.179.130.60> References: <1071712288.3fe10820f3ba7@208.179.130.60> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:51:28 -0800, wrote: > Going to be starting LAN/WAN Protocols in January at college...realized, > my > laptop doesn't have a serial port, like the 'official' laptops most > students > bought through the college. Anybody got experience with USB to Serial > (DB9) Could you use a pcmcia card? - I know my lan/modem pcmcia card shows it's modem port as a serial connection... don't know how to configure it though... > adaptors for managing Cisco routers through either Windows (XP) or Linux? > Can/will have both installed (just reinstalled my laptop last week due to > NTFS/FAT32 bugs...arg) > > I googled for info, found some guys talking about using OSX on a Mac > with Zterm, > and that working. www.compgeeks.com has one, but it says that it > *won't* work > for terminal emulation because it doesn't add a COM port to the system. > So I > need a terminal emulator that will talk through the USB to the adapted > serial. > > If not, I just grab the new laptop we've got. (Not sure on Linux on > that one, > though...day before Thanksgiving CompUSA special) > > Thanks! > > Keith Bachman > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Fri Dec 19 08:04:04 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wierd 2.6 problem [WAS 2.6 Kernel] In-Reply-To: <1071811188.21640.5.camel@3po> Message-ID: I think it's PTYs that you have to enable, nd I don't remember if it was mentioned already on the list, but I think you need a separate package to load 2.6 modules (at least you do with Gentoo, but maybe that's just them.) I can't wait to play with this over the weekend. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hicks > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:20 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Wierd 2.6 problem [WAS 2.6 Kernel] > > > On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 19:06, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > I'm trying 2.6.0 out and it builds fine, and runs fine, but > oddly when > > I boot up I do not see ANY console boot messages, just a > black screen. > > After a while the GDM screen pops up. Any ideas what could cause > > this? It's an older Gateway 5150 laptop. > > Eeesh. I thought someone was going to fix that. It's a > common problem, because the default kernel configuration > doesn't have support for the local text/framebuffer console > built in. It was my impression that someone was going to go > through and make the default configuration be much more > reasonable for normal people, rather than having options set > willy-nilly. > > Anyway, just search for "linux 2.6 black screen" or some > variants thereof. I think almost everyone who has tried 2.6 > has run into that problem at one point or another. > > -- > _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Page 9 of 1 > / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ > \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) > [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | > mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Fri Dec 19 08:11:25 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (fwd) posting to Linux mail list Message-ID: <20031219141125.GB3974@fandre.com> This is interesting... -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Michael Surkan" Subject: posting to Linux mail list Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:16:52 -0800 Size: 9685 Url: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031219/5e3db390/attachment.mht -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Fri Dec 19 08:25:01 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (fwd) posting to Linux mail list In-Reply-To: <20031219141125.GB3974@fandre.com> Message-ID: I for one would like to see more Purple Monkey Dishwashers in Windows...and MS should make it easier to hunt snipe with Windows. That should keep em busy for at least two of those five years... > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Clay Fandre > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 8:11 AM > To: tclug-list > Subject: [TCLUG] (fwd) posting to Linux mail list > > > This is interesting... > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Fri Dec 19 08:43:09 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <3FE21573.2050309@visi.com> References: <3FE21573.2050309@visi.com> Message-ID: <200312190843.09367.bmaas@open-techsys.com> On Thursday 18 December 2003 03:00 pm, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > To think we sent men to space using slide rules. I got to thinking about this last night. This data is off the top of my head, but maybe we should go back to slide rules. If I remember correctly we've lost 3 astronauts to slide rules (Apollo 1) and 14 to computers (Challanger and Columbia). -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Fri Dec 19 08:45:29 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (fwd) posting to Linux mail list References: <20031219141125.GB3974@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3FE30F09.6090703@structural-wood.com> Michael (cc'd to TCLUG'ers). Here is what I want from Microsoft: - Open and fully document your protocols - If a functioning standard exists for something you want to do, use it - Fully document your file formats - commit to not making gratuitous changes In other words, make Microsoft the best team player. Presumably you know how Microsoft is perceived today, so I won't go overtly negative in this e-mail. Thanks for asking, Kent Clay Fandre wrote: > This is interesting... > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > posting to Linux mail list > From: > "Michael Surkan" > Date: > Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:16:52 -0800 > To: > > > > I am a program manager in the Microsoft networking group, doing some > research around how we can improve our operating systems. My goal is to > help us identify capabilities, improvements, and features that Microsoft > should be focusing on to help our customers over the next 5 years or so. > I am particularly interested in hearing from Linux users, and get their > input about what they feel should be priorities. > > > > I was wondering if you would mind if I posted a message on your Linux > mailing list (tclug-list@mn-linux.org) asking for feedback? I want to > ask for people to e-mail me directly if they would be interested in > taking an on-line survey I have put together (sorry, I don?t want to > post the survey URL directly to the public). > > > > If you don't feel this is an appropriate use of your list, that's fine. > Of course, I am always eager to hear your thoughts if you wanted to > share them. :-) > > > > Thanks, > > Michael Surkan > > > > P.S. If it?s ok for me to post to your distribution list, what is the > best way I should do that? Is there an e-mail address you recommend I use? > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Fri Dec 19 08:54:06 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (fwd) posting to Linux mail list In-Reply-To: <20031219141125.GB3974@fandre.com> References: <20031219141125.GB3974@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031219145406.GA3622@mail.el-swifto.com> On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 08:11:25AM -0600, Clay Fandre wrote: > Subject: posting to Linux mail list > Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:16:52 -0800 > From: "Michael Surkan" > To: > > I am a program manager in the Microsoft networking group, doing some > research around how we can improve our operating systems. My goal is to > help us identify capabilities, improvements, and features that Microsoft > should be focusing on to help our customers over the next 5 years or so. > I am particularly interested in hearing from Linux users, and get their > input about what they feel should be priorities. Just hand over .001% of that $40 billion MS has in the bank, and I'd be happy to make suggestions. No free lunch though. The nerve of these people. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Dec 19 08:58:01 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (fwd) posting to Linux mail list In-Reply-To: <20031219141125.GB3974@fandre.com> References: <20031219141125.GB3974@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3FE311F9.9020008@visi.com> Let the Fire War begin! Lets see, where to start? _/*UM NO!*/_ If in truth this guy works for M$ and is trying to improve the OS, why on our backs? I see this as an insidious attempt to diminish Linux in a public way. I can hear it in the press now... "We talked to Linux users who would run our OS if we did these things." These people are not above lying, cheating, steeling, and twisting your words to promote what they sell. I say we winuke the buggers and let them eat cake. Some ignorant fool from somewhere in Arkansas sent me an eMail requesting a picture of Jason. (see www.screechowl.org for more info.) The person said they were a reporter with PEOPLE magazine, but the eMail address was not from People magazine, like the one I sent a message to editor@people.com They said they were reporting on solders who had been killed serving their country in Iraq. I asked that they verify who they were, they replied but asked me to ignore the request. )I may be dumb but I'm not stupid( Yup, the eMail to editor@people.com included name and eMail address of the sender. I put microsoft and ibm on the same level as people like this. Sam. Clay Fandre wrote: >This is interesting... > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > posting to Linux mail list > From: > "Michael Surkan" > Date: > Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:16:52 -0800 > To: > > > To: > > > > I am a program manager in the Microsoft networking group, doing some > research around how we can improve our operating systems. My goal is > to help us identify capabilities, improvements, and features that > Microsoft should be focusing on to help our customers over the next 5 > years or so. I am particularly interested in hearing from Linux users, > and get their input about what they feel should be priorities. > > I was wondering if you would mind if I posted a message on your Linux > mailing list (tclug-list@mn-linux.org) asking for feedback? I want to > ask for people to e-mail me directly if they would be interested in > taking an on-line survey I have put together (sorry, I don?t want to > post the survey URL directly to the public). > > If you don't feel this is an appropriate use of your list, that's > fine. Of course, I am always eager to hear your thoughts if you wanted > to share them. :-) > > Thanks, > > Michael Surkan > > P.S. If it?s ok for me to post to your distribution list, what is the > best way I should do that? Is there an e-mail address you recommend I use? > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Fri Dec 19 09:06:10 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools References: <3FE21573.2050309@visi.com> <200312190843.09367.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Message-ID: <3FE313E2.6070508@structural-wood.com> Ben Maas wrote: > On Thursday 18 December 2003 03:00 pm, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > >>To think we sent men to space using slide rules. > > > I got to thinking about this last night. This data is off the top of my head, > but maybe we should go back to slide rules. If I remember correctly we've > lost 3 astronauts to slide rules (Apollo 1) and 14 to computers (Challanger > and Columbia). > We never lost any to counting on fingers... :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeffr at odeon.net Fri Dec 19 09:26:23 2003 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Interesting linux news regarding Sistina Message-ID: I just stumbled on this, and seeing as it hasn't hit /. yet and does mention a local linux company that's involved in SAN technology which we were all discussing recently, I figured it was pretty safe to post. http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/tech/ronnaabramson/10133116.html The article talks about Redhat's recent earnings report, but a few paragraphs down is the really interesting part (to me): "Red Hat also announced that it has agreed to acquire privately held storage infrastructure software company Sistina Software for $31 million in stock. The acquisition is expected to be completed in early January." Getting Sistina's impressive storage clustering technology into a fairly large linux distribution sounds like a good thing to me. Jeff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Fri Dec 19 09:32:30 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (fwd) posting to Linux mail list In-Reply-To: <20031219141125.GB3974@fandre.com> References: <20031219141125.GB3974@fandre.com> Message-ID: <1071847949.8294.49.camel@unixws1> Clay, get the boiling oil. Or if we're out, get the emergency backup oil and start boiling it :) These are my pet-peeves. I don't really care if this guy reads this or not - I have no interest in "donating" my time and professional insight to a company with billions of dollars, but I certainly don't mind ranting...it's good for the soul :) If he wants more recommendations I'll be happy to sit down with a design team or Ballmer himself, if I'm adequately compensated. Instead of hiring out of MENSA, in all of it's top IQ glory, why not hire people that have actually tried to USE this stuff, and let them tell you how it should work! I have had the fortune of not having to administer Windows machines since NT4, but this is the stuff that I see and hear complaints about regularly. Priority 1 is to stop changing everything with every release. Gawd, why is the DUN setup (almost) identical in 95 and 98, different in ME, different in NT, different in 2k, and different in XP? Why should we have to have different setup instructions for every version of Windows, every version of IE, and every variant of Outlook? Why is it so difficult to view full headers in Outlook and OE? Know why there are so many 95 and 98 users still around? Because they don't want to have to re-learn everything after they upgrade. The inconsistency in the interface is probably complaint #1 for tech-support. Can't there be a better way than MMC to manage IIS websites? I want something that I can change with a text editor - a text file that I can backup, print out, copy from machine to machine, do GLOBAL CHANGES, modify with a shell script? Give me a flat file, give me XML, give me SOMETHING that I can modify without a GUI. Exchange 5 and 2k accept and queue EVERY message received (that's addressed to a valid local domain, doesn't break relaying rules, etc) and only AFTER they accept the message and close the SMTP session do they do the user lookup for final delivery. This causes no end of problems when a spammer does a dictionary attack against an Exchange-hosted domain. I've heard this is fixed in 2k3, but haven't confirmed. Exchange 5 and 2k (correctly) tried every MX in order until it either ran out, or delivery succeeded. Exchange 2k3 (apparently) only tries the first two, then gives up. True, RFC 2129 says to try at least two, but implies that you should try as many as possible to make delivery succeed. SMTP was designed to be EXTREMELY reliable. We shouldn't go backwards in functionality with a new release. I think it's reasonable to assume that a company will have 1 mail server, 1 backup on-site, and 1 off-site backup MX. That's 3. I want to be able to pull a drive out of a machine, put it into another (non-identical) machine, and go, like I can in Linux, BSD/OS, FreeBSD, UnixWare and Solaris. I don't want to re-install Windows, and I don't want to call Microsoft to let them know that my hardware has changed (XP). On that same note, I think the network configuration is keyed on the MAC address of the card. So I can't just swap in a new NIC of the same model, without having to re-config the network. This isn't a huge deal, unless you're talking about a machine with 200+ IP's on it. You really have to wonder, when MS is designing this stuff, do they ever sit back and think - is this pointy-clicky interface still usable with 100 of these (IP's, websites, users), 1000? On Fri, 2003-12-19 at 08:11, Clay Fandre wrote: > This is interesting... > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > From: Michael Surkan > To: tclug-list-owner@mn-linux.org > Subject: posting to Linux mail list > Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:16:52 -0800 > > > > I am a program manager in the Microsoft networking group, doing some > research around how we can improve our operating systems. My goal is > to help us identify capabilities, improvements, and features that > Microsoft should be focusing on to help our customers over the next 5 > years or so. I am particularly interested in hearing from Linux users, > and get their input about what they feel should be priorities. > > > > I was wondering if you would mind if I posted a message on your Linux > mailing list (tclug-list@mn-linux.org) asking for feedback? I want to > ask for people to e-mail me directly if they would be interested in > taking an on-line survey I have put together (sorry, I don’t want to > post the survey URL directly to the public). > > > > If you don't feel this is an appropriate use of your list, that's > fine. Of course, I am always eager to hear your thoughts if you wanted > to share them. :-) > > > > Thanks, > > Michael Surkan > > > > P.S. If it’s ok for me to post to your distribution list, what is the > best way I should do that? Is there an e-mail address you recommend I > use? > > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bfriedman at exstream.com Fri Dec 19 09:33:48 2003 From: bfriedman at exstream.com (Brent Friedman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Message from MS person - some links for your perusal Message-ID: <2959A34255F0CA40BC27DCB7003052D85776C7@rye.exstream.com> A similar message showed up on a LUG mailing list that I subscribe to in Kentucky. I don't want to spread FUD, so I will just drop some links I came across. http://lists.gslug.org/pipermail/gslug-general/2003-November/000086.html http://www.ssc.com/pipermail/linux-list/2001-September/049805.html (Shows in browser as "" -search it for "Michael Surkan" and that message shows up) Feedback from Surkan's 1998 ZDNet article "I Come Not to Praise Linux..." article... http://linuxtoday.com/news/1998111802110PS (links to original article don't show the article, they show a search page for zdnet stuff) http://www.jukie.net/pipermail/ottawa-wifi/2003-December.txt http://seclists.org/lists/firewall-wizards/2003/Dec/0083.html (complete with online survey link!) I will close this email with a tagline attributed to Michael Surkan's PC Week article noted above, As long as Linux remains a religion of freeware fanatics, Microsoft have nothing to worry about. By Michael Surkan, PC Week Online Brent Friedman _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Fri Dec 19 09:34:19 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (fwd) posting to Linux mail list In-Reply-To: <3FE30F09.6090703@structural-wood.com> References: <20031219141125.GB3974@fandre.com> <3FE30F09.6090703@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <200312190934.19538.bmaas@open-techsys.com> (cc'd to TCLUG) I'd second all that Ken said and add the following: - Scriptablity. I'm aware of (and do use) the Windows Scripting stuff, but inorder to use it I have to dig through piles of DLL documentation to get anything done - command line based text search tools like grep, sed and awk - file formats should be in text (XML) whenever possible so things can be fixed easily without special tools - more logging. Event viewer is a good start but there are often times when there is still no event generated or worse no usefull information in the event when attempting fo troubleshoot what went wrong. Having the ability to turn on more verbose logs under certain circumstances greatly improves my ability to troubleshoot Unix systems - I understand your desire to keep your source code closed, just please keep the protocols and interfaces open as Kent mentioned. Going out of your way to break existing protocols and not document new ones makes my job harder and wastes my time when trying to get something done or fixed for a customer, no matter which operating system they use - Not entirely germain to your request, but its been bugging me: Driver downloads for all hardware products. Customers lose CDs. Every other hardware vendor on the planet is allows you to download their drivers. It makes it very difficult to recover a clients computer if they've lost the CDs. My customers shouldn't need to wait a couple days while I order new ones (or try to find someone to borrow the CD from) Lastly, I'd be happy to fill out your survey. On Friday 19 December 2003 08:45 am, Kent Schumacher wrote: > Here is what I want from Microsoft: > > - Open and fully document your protocols > - If a functioning standard exists for something you want to do, use it > - Fully document your file formats - commit to not making gratuitous > changes > > In other words, make Microsoft the best team player. Presumably you > know how Microsoft is perceived today, so I won't go overtly negative > in this e-mail. > > Thanks for asking, > Kent > > Clay Fandre wrote: > > This is interesting... > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Subject: > > posting to Linux mail list > > From: > > "Michael Surkan" > > Date: > > Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:16:52 -0800 > > To: > > > > > > > > I am a program manager in the Microsoft networking group, doing some > > research around how we can improve our operating systems. My goal is to > > help us identify capabilities, improvements, and features that Microsoft > > should be focusing on to help our customers over the next 5 years or so. > > I am particularly interested in hearing from Linux users, and get their > > input about what they feel should be priorities. > > > > > > > > I was wondering if you would mind if I posted a message on your Linux > > mailing list (tclug-list@mn-linux.org) asking for feedback? I want to > > ask for people to e-mail me directly if they would be interested in > > taking an on-line survey I have put together (sorry, I don?t want to > > post the survey URL directly to the public). > > > > > > > > If you don't feel this is an appropriate use of your list, that's fine. > > Of course, I am always eager to hear your thoughts if you wanted to > > share them. :-) > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Michael Surkan > > > > > > > > P.S. If it?s ok for me to post to your distribution list, what is the > > best way I should do that? Is there an e-mail address you recommend I > > use? > > > > > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Fri Dec 19 09:50:57 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (fwd) posting to Linux mail list In-Reply-To: <3FE311F9.9020008@visi.com> References: <20031219141125.GB3974@fandre.com> <3FE311F9.9020008@visi.com> Message-ID: <200312190950.57395.bmaas@open-techsys.com> On Friday 19 December 2003 08:58 am, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > _/*UM NO!*/_ The fact remains though that I'm going to be working on these systems for the foreseeable future. We are a company built around Linux and Open Source but *every* one of our customers has Microsoft products installed. Microsoft will continue to sling FUD whether I respond or not. However, I think there is a good chance they'll listen for one simple reason. They're geting *scared*. They know they're losing market share. If they make improvements Linux is not going to disappear, it can only benefit us by way of more open standards (but don't expect more open source). In the long run I hope my job gets either on both Linux *and* Windows. As for IBM, I know you've had a bad experience Sam. The fact remains though that IBM built this business and they continue to be a force to this day. We wouldn't be nearly as far along with Linux and many other projects if it wasn't for both IBM and Microsoft. -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Dec 19 10:03:58 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312191603.hBJG3w030040@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: Want to Buy Subject: Local Programmer Job Local to Twin Cities preferred, but would relocate the ideal candidate. Position Objective: Designs software for Client Customers' products, and related applications and coordinates software engineering strategies. Position Responsibilities: * Architects software systems and develops software code for Client Customers. * Focuses on software design and documentation for customer products and related applications resulting in a product should be a manufacturable solution that meets both the customers' requirements and the Client manufacturing support groups' requirements * Coordinates software engineering strategies for Client customers * Provides project level leadership and organization as required for multiple concurrent projects * Develops project proposals and associated cost estimates * Drives design/development related business discussions on Client customer team(s) * Provides project leadership, mentoring, and training for engineers * Develops and deploys processes and systems within the workgroup * Participates in identification and development of advanced/new technologies * Provides research and development for new design methods and tools Education and Training Requirements: * Must have a 4- year degree in computer science or electrical engineering or related studies with 5+years experience in the electronics manufacturing industry, experience with embedded and/or application software for medical devices preferred. * Must have intermediate knowledge of software languages and programming techniques, revision control, and verification and validation techniques. * Systems integration experience with Real Time Operating Systems (RTOS) customizing Linux kernels to embedded hardware preferred. Skills Required: * Will demonstrate a high level of knowledge of programming techniques for multiple software languages, may include the following, but not limited to, C/C++, Assembly, basic, Visual Basic, HPVEE, Perl etc * Will demonstrate analytical skills and advanced troubleshooting of software code and interface circuits * Will demonstrate strong problem solving skills and the ability to make sound technical decisions * Will be able to travel up to 10% - 20% of the time to include day and/or overnight travel * Will demonstrate ability to assemble and present technical presentations in support of technology exchange * Will demonstrate day to day self-directed project activity organization in accordance with software development procedures Regards, Joe Torma Senior Recruiter / National Account Manager Direct: 972.239.6572 X-149 Toll Free: 888.325.3677 Fax: 972.239.6590 Engineering Management Staff Recruiters Over 2 decades of unequalled performance. mailto:Joe.Torma@emsr.com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Fri Dec 19 10:07:49 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (fwd) posting to Linux mail list In-Reply-To: <200312190934.19538.bmaas@open-techsys.com> References: <20031219141125.GB3974@fandre.com> <3FE30F09.6090703@structural-wood.com> <200312190934.19538.bmaas@open-techsys.com> Message-ID: <1071850068.8294.59.camel@unixws1> > - more logging. Event viewer is a good start but there are often times when > there is still no event generated or worse no usefull information in the > event when attempting fo troubleshoot what went wrong. Having the ability to > turn on more verbose logs under certain circumstances greatly improves my > ability to troubleshoot Unix systems Good call - AND Meaningful logs (not a 10-digit hex code) ...that say something other than "ask your administrator" ...in a standard, consistent format (for parsing) Option to log to event viewer AND/OR external host AND/OR a file MS /kind of/ has facilities and levels - how about per-level config. I want everything to go to a flat file (that I can SMB mount and File::Tail to parse), warnings, errors, and critical to go to an external host for parsing/monitoring, and criticals to go to event viewer (for instance). I want my monitoring system to be able to generate an alarm based on log entries. Event viewer is almost sufficient for troubleshooting day-to-day problems, but by god, I want something to page me when a disk is full, or a RAID volume is degraded. I shouldn't have to read Event Viewer on every box, every few hours, looking for problems. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Fri Dec 19 11:15:15 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cisco Books Message-ID: <20031219171514.GA17731@therub.org> Hey Gang, I'm looking at these two O'Reilly books: Cisco ION in a Nutshell: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/cisiosnut/ and T1: A Survival Guide: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/t1survival/index.html Anyone have anything good or bad to say about them? Recommendations? I'm a bit green to Cisco and looking to jump in head first.. tia, dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Dec 19 10:29:46 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cisco Books In-Reply-To: <20031219171514.GA17731@therub.org> References: <20031219171514.GA17731@therub.org> Message-ID: <4042.156.99.116.45.1071851386.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> > Cisco IOS in a Nutshell: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/cisiosnut/ Excellent book. > T1: A Survival Guide: Never read that one. Sorry. If you want an excellent Cisco book, Microcenter has Cisco Routing for IP: The Black Book for $5 on the discount rack. Last I checked they were still restocking it. AWESOME Cisco book, and for $5, it's an absolute must for any Cisco guru. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mteff at frontiernet.net Fri Dec 19 10:40:40 2003 From: mteff at frontiernet.net (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cisco Books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I can't comment on the books, but I've had good luck just using the online documentation at Cisco. I know finding stuff at Cisco is abit tough. But then I was baptized by fire and didn't have the time to read a book. Here are the links I use. Cisco PIX Firwall Sofware http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/iaabu/pix/ Cisco IOS Software Configurations http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/index.htm HTH Michael -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Dan Rue Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:15 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Cisco Books Hey Gang, I'm looking at these two O'Reilly books: Cisco ION in a Nutshell: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/cisiosnut/ and T1: A Survival Guide: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/t1survival/index.html Anyone have anything good or bad to say about them? Recommendations? I'm a bit green to Cisco and looking to jump in head first.. tia, dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbresnah at visi.com Fri Dec 19 09:18:24 2003 From: mbresnah at visi.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: posting to Linux mail list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, I am a software developer that does development on both Windows and UNIX. 1) I would like to see a decent command line set of tools; something approximating Cygwin. The DOS command interpreter leaves a lot to be desired. I am happy with Windows 2000 only if Cygwin is installed on it. 2) I know this is not practical, but I would like Microsoft to cease using backslash as the path delimiter and use the forward slash instead. 3) This is slightly more practical. I would like to see the text file line delimiter changed from \r\n (carriage return, line feed) to just simply \n (line feed). 4) I would like to see a better backup utility. The one that comes with Windows 2000 is really bad. I have not checked out the one on XP. 5) I would like to be able to login as a non-administrator and still have things actually work. Too many things I use as a software developer require admin privaleges. I don't have this problem on UNIX. I understand some of this may have been fixed in XP. 6) I would like Microsoft to release all their source code. Heh. Mike Bresnahan -----Original Message----- From: mailman-bounces@lists.real-time.com [mailto:mailman-bounces@lists.real-time.com]On Behalf Of Michael Surkan Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 2:17 AM To: tclug-list-owner@mn-linux.org Subject: posting to Linux mail list I am a program manager in the Microsoft networking group, doing some research around how we can improve our operating systems. My goal is to help us identify capabilities, improvements, and features that Microsoft should be focusing on to help our customers over the next 5 years or so. I am particularly interested in hearing from Linux users, and get their input about what they feel should be priorities. I was wondering if you would mind if I posted a message on your Linux mailing list (tclug-list@mn-linux.org) asking for feedback? I want to ask for people to e-mail me directly if they would be interested in taking an on-line survey I have put together (sorry, I don't want to post the survey URL directly to the public). If you don't feel this is an appropriate use of your list, that's fine. Of course, I am always eager to hear your thoughts if you wanted to share them. :-) Thanks, Michael Surkan P.S. If it's ok for me to post to your distribution list, what is the best way I should do that? Is there an e-mail address you recommend I use? https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbresnah at visi.com Thu Dec 18 20:38:57 2003 From: mbresnah at visi.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] State Government Web Sites and Security Message-ID: I know of two Minnesota State government websites which accept credit card information over a non-secure connection, i.e. HTTP instead of HTTPS. There may be more. I just happen to know of two of them. What is up with that? Why isn't the state government concerned with the threat of identity theft? For reference, one of the two sites I know of is here: http://dutchelm.dps.state.mn.us/dvsinfo/mainframepublic.asp Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tmarble at info9.net Fri Dec 19 11:21:49 2003 From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] State Government Web Sites and Security In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FE333AD.9040904@info9.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Fri Dec 19 11:32:34 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cisco Books In-Reply-To: <20031219171514.GA17731@therub.org> References: <20031219171514.GA17731@therub.org> Message-ID: <1071855152.8294.108.camel@unixws1> Get the books (haven't read either), but then beg/borrow/steal an account on a real cisco to play with. I remember seeing at least 1 web-based cisco lab that you could access FOR FREE! If you have money, Techskills and Ascolta both do cisco training and have labs (Ascolta is more expensive than Techskills, but does higher-end cisco training). The U has a cisco lab too. I think the woman who runs it (ran it) is named Irene. Maybe Bongarts can point you in the right direction? I think I have a copy of "the CCNA book" (forget the actual name - the book from Cisco Press you're supposed to read before you take your CCNA exam). It covered basic IOS, T-1 and ISDN config, routing protocols, etc. I used it as a reference more than anything (never took the test), but it was well-written. I'd be willing to lend it out if I can find it. My experience has been that the Cisco Press books are very detailed, complete, and correct, but rather dry. I tried reading Halabi's Internet Routing Architecture cover to cover, but just couldn't bring myself to do it. They are bad for pleasure reading, but very good for getting the feel for specific things (how do I...) The books are good, but the only way to really learn it is to do some configurations yourself, live in IOS. I would go ahead and buy the books, but while you're reading try and find a way to get access to a lab of some sort. Also, the sample config's on cisco's website are a very good way to learn :) On Fri, 2003-12-19 at 11:15, Dan Rue wrote: > Hey Gang, > I'm looking at these two O'Reilly books: > > Cisco ION in a Nutshell: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/cisiosnut/ > and > T1: A Survival Guide: > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/t1survival/index.html > > Anyone have anything good or bad to say about them? Recommendations? > I'm a bit green to Cisco and looking to jump in head first.. > > tia, > dan > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Fri Dec 19 11:32:35 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] State Government Web Sites and Security In-Reply-To: ; from mbresnah@visi.com on Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 08:38:57PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20031219113235.A1727@thinkunix.net> here's another: Minnesota's Job Bank http://www.mnworks.org/jsli.cfm You have to enter your SSN when signing up. SSL is supported if you manually change the URL to https://www.mnworks.org/jsli.cfm, but it really should be over SSL all the time in my opinion. Mike Bresnahan wrote: > I know of two Minnesota State government websites which accept credit card > information over a non-secure connection, i.e. HTTP instead of HTTPS. There > may be more. I just happen to know of two of them. What is up with that? > Why isn't the state government concerned with the threat of identity theft? > > For reference, one of the two sites I know of is here: > http://dutchelm.dps.state.mn.us/dvsinfo/mainframepublic.asp > > Mike -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Fri Dec 19 11:38:51 2003 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] State Government Web Sites and Security In-Reply-To: <4B412CBD2F57DE4D8163A1B4C0D9879956DE25@ds67mail.na.bestbuy.com> Message-ID: <4B412CBD2F57DE4D8163A1B4C0D9879951FA41@ds67mail.na.bestbuy.com> > The workaround I'd recommend people try is simply change the protocol manually to https, then go into the site (you may want to check the > HTML source to verify that the FORM ACTION is submitting via https or a relative link): https://www.angieslist.com/ Hmmm, I didn't think of doing that. Does that work in general? > I really try to avoid using IE... but I wonder if IE users on these sites with IIS find that the browser changes to https for them (and > > IIS either deliberately -- or more likely because of lack of standards compliance -- does not work correctly with Mozilla). No go with IE at the DMV site. It uses HTTP. Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Dec 19 12:09:26 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cisco Books In-Reply-To: <1071855152.8294.108.camel@unixws1> References: <20031219171514.GA17731@therub.org> <1071855152.8294.108.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <1426.156.99.116.45.1071857366.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> > Get the books (haven't read either), but then beg/borrow/steal an > account on a real cisco to play with. If you've got a few bucks, you can pick up a Cisco 2501 on Ebay for ~$100. I was using one for awhile, it was nice to play with. It's got an AUI port for ethernet and 2 serial, makes a great T1 router as well as a good practice router. Right now there's a nice pair of 2501s and CSU/DSUs if you really want to have some fun. You can also play with zebra on linux, it's decent but not quite an IOS replacement. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Dec 19 12:16:00 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] State Government Web Sites and Security In-Reply-To: <20031219113235.A1727@thinkunix.net> References: <20031219113235.A1727@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <1451.156.99.116.45.1071857760.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> > You have to enter your SSN when signing up. SSL is supported if you > manually change the URL to https://www.mnworks.org/jsli.cfm, but it > really should be over SSL all the time in my opinion. Most of the state stuff works this way. I've talked to some of the admins at the state level, they claim it's for compatibility issues and whatnot. Umm, can you say LAZY? The state still insists on using a TN3270 connection to its mainframes, unencrypted, over port 23. They have an SSL tunnel that you can use if you know how, but they don't really tell anyone that. They also have asked me why I'd want to use it when TN3270 is easier to set up. Someone over there just doesn't get it. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Fri Dec 19 12:27:49 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (fwd) posting to Linux mail list Message-ID: Greetings List! I don't wish to be CCed on any more communications with Mr. Surkan. If you must make suggestions to identify capabilities, improvements, and features for the improvement an operating system over the next 5 years or so, please make it Linux or at least mark it [OT]. Seriously, is this a list devoted to the improvement of MS products? Thank you ever so much, Troy >>> bmaas@open-techsys.com 12/19/03 09:50AM >>> On Friday 19 December 2003 08:58 am, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > _/*UM NO!*/_ The fact remains though that I'm going to be working on these systems for the foreseeable future. We are a company built around Linux and Open Source but *every* one of our customers has Microsoft products installed. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Fri Dec 19 13:23:43 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] State Government Web Sites and Security In-Reply-To: <1451.156.99.116.45.1071857760.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> References: <20031219113235.A1727@thinkunix.net> <1451.156.99.116.45.1071857760.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> Message-ID: <20031219192343.GF17731@therub.org> On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 12:16:00PM -0600, Brian wrote: > > You have to enter your SSN when signing up. SSL is supported if you > > manually change the URL to https://www.mnworks.org/jsli.cfm, but it > > really should be over SSL all the time in my opinion. > > Most of the state stuff works this way. I've talked to some of the admins > at the state level, they claim it's for compatibility issues and whatnot. > Umm, can you say LAZY? > > The state still insists on using a TN3270 connection to its mainframes, > unencrypted, over port 23. They have an SSL tunnel that you can use if > you know how, but they don't really tell anyone that. They also have > asked me why I'd want to use it when TN3270 is easier to set up. > > Someone over there just doesn't get it. They still use 9600 baud modems in some departments. No Kidding. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Fri Dec 19 13:32:20 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [OT] Insecure Websites (was RE: [TCLUG] State Government Web Sites and Security) In-Reply-To: <4B412CBD2F57DE4D8163A1B4C0D9879951FA41@ds67mail.na.bestbuy.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Bresnahan > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:39 AM > To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] State Government Web Sites and Security > > > > The workaround I'd recommend people try is simply change > the protocol > manually to https, then go into the site (you may want to > check the > HTML source to verify that the FORM ACTION is > submitting via https or a relative > link): https://www.angieslist.com/ > > Hmmm, I didn't think of doing that. Does that work in general? That depends. If the FORM ACTION URL is https.. it works. Just changing the address to https will usually give the same page as http. The page itself will be transferring using SSL, but your submission will not, if the action is not. Well, actually if the action just uses a relevant page (like ../cgi-bin/script.pl) then I think it would use SSL. But if it specified http://domain.com/cgi-bin/script.pl then it would not work. Correct me if I'm wrong. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Dec 19 13:42:02 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] State Government Web Sites and Security In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031219194202.GI6711@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 08:38:57PM -0600, Mike Bresnahan wrote: > I know of two Minnesota State government websites which accept credit card > information over a non-secure connection, i.e. HTTP instead of HTTPS. There > may be more. I just happen to know of two of them. What is up with that? > Why isn't the state government concerned with the threat of identity theft? Cruise over to the Target parking lot on university (across from a car dealership), they have multiple unencrypted wireless links throughout the twin cities. I prefer to not do business with the state in any electronic form. Cash only when necessary. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Fri Dec 19 14:28:50 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] first virtual host dominates Message-ID: <0ade01c3c66e$b6ad51a0$320b0b0a@DELL2> I have switched my virtual host around, but the first one always dominiates and prevents the second one from working correctly. I am sure it is a simple fix, but I have not found it yet. ServerName rt.domain.org DocumentRoot /opt/rt3/share/html AddDefaultCharset UTF-8 # this line applies to Apache2+mod_perl2 only PerlModule Apache2 Apache::compat PerlModule Apache::DBI PerlRequire /opt/rt3/bin/webmux.pl RedirectMatch permanent (.*)/$ http://rt.domain.org$1/index.html SetHandler perl-script PerlHandler RT::Mason SetHandler perl-script PerlResponseHandler ModPerl::Registry Options +ExecCGI DocumentRoot /var/www/WebGUI/www ServerName domain.org RedirectMatch permanent (.*)/$ http://domain.org$1/index.pl Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Fri Dec 19 15:02:09 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] first virtual host dominates In-Reply-To: <0ade01c3c66e$b6ad51a0$320b0b0a@DELL2> References: <0ade01c3c66e$b6ad51a0$320b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Dec 2003, Raymond Norton wrote: > I have switched my virtual host around, but the first one always > dominiates and prevents the second one from working correctly. I am sure > it is a simple fix, but I have not found it yet. "NameVirtualHost :80" fix it? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Fri Dec 19 15:01:13 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] internal server errors on tclug website Message-ID: <0afa01c3c673$3d4051f0$320b0b0a@DELL2> I am trying to look at the archives and I am getting internal server errors. Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Fri Dec 19 15:31:07 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] first virtual host dominates Message-ID: or: NameVirtualHost * >>> natecars@real-time.com 12/19/03 03:02PM >>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003, Raymond Norton wrote: > I have switched my virtual host around, but the first one always > dominiates and prevents the second one from working correctly. I am sure > it is a simple fix, but I have not found it yet. "NameVirtualHost :80" fix it? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Fri Dec 19 15:32:58 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] internal server errors on tclug website In-Reply-To: <0afa01c3c673$3d4051f0$320b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Dec 2003, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am trying to look at the archives and I am getting internal server errors. > > > Raymond > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Munir Nassar Systems Administrator RedConcepts.NET _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Fri Dec 19 15:47:35 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] first virtual host dominates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 19, 2003, at 3:31 PM, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > "NameVirtualHost :80" fix it? If you're operating in a NAT-ed environment, make sure that the IP address you use in the Name-based Virtual Host directive is the internal IP, not your site's external IP. I figured that out a while ago when I was observing behavior like what you're describing. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Fri Dec 19 16:04:14 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] first virtual host dominates Message-ID: <0dcb01c3c67c$0a61c5d0$320b0b0a@DELL2> I had NameVirtualHost * in my config. I changed it to the IP:80, and the same in each virtualhost tag. It works now. Not sure why , but I can live with it:) Thanks Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Fri Dec 19 16:15:36 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] internal server errors on tclug website In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ctrl-X and Ctrl-C are just a hair apart :) -- Munir Nassar Systems Administrator RedConcepts.NET _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wdradomski at juno.com Fri Dec 19 17:35:50 2003 From: wdradomski at juno.com (Wm. D Radomski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Message from MS person - some links for your perusal Message-ID: <20031219.173601.-334073.2.wdradomski@juno.com> As a newbie lurker, I do not have a large dog in this fight yet, but--based on articles that have recently been written in Investors Business Daily--M$ is has plenty of reason to finally take some serious marketing measures in response to the Linux revolution. The pressure is definitly on, and the "fanatics" would do well to be mindful of clever assaults. On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:33:48 -0500 "Brent Friedman" writes: > A similar message showed up on a LUG mailing list that I subscribe to > in Kentucky. > > I don't want to spread FUD, so I will just drop some links I came > across. > > http://lists.gslug.org/pipermail/gslug-general/2003-November/000086.html > > http://www.ssc.com/pipermail/linux-list/2001-September/049805.html > (Shows in browser as "" -search it for "Michael > Surkan" and that message shows up) > > Feedback from Surkan's 1998 ZDNet article "I Come Not to Praise > Linux..." article... > http://linuxtoday.com/news/1998111802110PS > (links to original article don't show the article, they show a > search page for zdnet stuff) > > http://www.jukie.net/pipermail/ottawa-wifi/2003-December.txt > > http://seclists.org/lists/firewall-wizards/2003/Dec/0083.html > (complete with online survey link!) > > I will close this email with a tagline attributed to Michael > Surkan's PC Week article noted above, > As long as Linux remains a religion of freeware fanatics, > Microsoft have nothing to worry about. > By Michael Surkan, PC Week Online > > > Brent Friedman > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Fri Dec 19 21:02:43 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kind of a different question In-Reply-To: <1071770917.a0d94be0Daniel.Post@st.bemidjistate.edu>; from Daniel.Post@st.bemidjistate.edu on Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 12:08:37PM -0600 References: <1071770917.a0d94be0Daniel.Post@st.bemidjistate.edu> Message-ID: <20031219210243.A25101@real-time.com> On 12/18 12:08 , Daniel Post wrote: > The one they like best [...] is IceWM. Go IceWM! I always thought that was one of the most appropriate WM's for this sort of environment, and the one users would like the most (because of its simplicity), but the KDE nutballs here at work refuse to believe me. ;) > So, how do I modify (IceWM|KDE|GNOME|.*) so I can control which menus are > available to a given type of user? I've grepped around a bit with no luck, > so now hoping you guys have some insight. A quick search on a Debian box will turn up iceconf, iceme, and icepref; which should be the sort of tools you're looking for. Freshmeat may have even more options. Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From strayf at freeshell.org Fri Dec 19 21:33:44 2003 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <002f01c3c58f$8e151f50$24fea8c0@computer> References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <002f01c3c58f$8e151f50$24fea8c0@computer> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Lawrence Clemens wrote: > [...] > I challenge anyone to show me a Linux system with a functional GUI that will run on > even a 266MHz P2 with 64 MB RAM. (I've tried mainstream stuff like SuSE > [...] > BTW if I have gotten it all wrong and you have systems that are dropins > to older computers and easily adapt peripherals, I would love to hear > from you and get educated. That's what TLUG is for. Thanks for the forum. Well, I'm writing from a P120 laptop with 48MB RAM running Debian and using the fluxbox window manager. I admit waiting for Mozilla to start up is tedious, but it works. strayf@freeshell.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Fri Dec 19 22:20:22 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] State Government Web Sites and Security In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1071894021.3418.28.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Fri Dec 19 22:40:11 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] State Government Web Sites and Security In-Reply-To: <20031219113235.A1727@thinkunix.net> References: <20031219113235.A1727@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <1071895210.3418.49.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com Fri Dec 19 22:23:05 2003 From: LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com (Lawrence Clemens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <002f01c3c58f$8e151f50$24fea8c0@computer> Message-ID: <010101c3c6b0$f6d2cde0$24fea8c0@computer> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ericebner at nsatel.net Fri Dec 19 23:32:41 2003 From: ericebner at nsatel.net (Eric Ebner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] State Government Web Sites and Security In-Reply-To: <1071895210.3418.49.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: So do I understand the implications of this? See, in MN in order to receive your unemployment insurance, you must register (and if you apply for benefits, you are automatically registered with a lastname-last4 of your SSN username/password. You MUST confirm registration on the site to keep getting you benefits). So every unemployed person in MN uses this site. And from what I understand from looking at the site the job seekers that use the site to find a job are open to this too... Scary since there are 56,000 active resumes on the system, probably at least 4 times as many users. So if I logged in and someone sniffed my SSN and thieved my identity would the state of MN be held liable for not protecting my sensitive info? Say it ain't so... E On 19/12/2003 22:40, "Callum Lerwick" wrote: >> here's another: >> >> Minnesota's Job Bank >> http://www.mnworks.org/jsli.cfm > > And the source for http://www.mnworks.org/jsli.cfm says: >
METHOD="POST"> > > And where you verify your SSN in > http://www.mnworks.org/jobseeker/jsedrgssn.cfm: > METHOD="POST"> > > Ethereal confirms it. Forms are submitted over SSL, but the rest of the > session isn't. Better than nothing. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hackel at walkingfish.com Fri Dec 19 23:42:47 2003 From: hackel at walkingfish.com (Ryan Hayle) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Old/Broken Palm III? In-Reply-To: <1071765736.8133.6.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> References: <3FE13C34.5040501@walkingfish.com> <1071765736.8133.6.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> Message-ID: <3FE3E157.7090409@walkingfish.com> Carl Patten wrote: > You betcha, I have a disassembled Palm III and Palm IIIx in a box, just > waiting to be donated to a worthy cause. Both screens work fine. > Computer Renaissance in Roseville has been selling Palms for $25 so I've > been accumulating a collection. > > E-mail me off-list if you're interested. Hey Carl, Thanks for the offer, that sounds great. I think either should work fine for me. I just need the glass digitizer, so let me know what you'd like for it, and how to get it--if you're in the Roseville area I can pick it up anytime. Thanks! Ryan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Fri Dec 19 23:46:48 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kind of a different question In-Reply-To: <1071770917.a0d94be0Daniel.Post@st.bemidjistate.edu> References: <1071770917.a0d94be0Daniel.Post@st.bemidjistate.edu> Message-ID: <1071899208.3418.91.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Sat Dec 20 00:25:34 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] State Government Web Sites and Security In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1071901534.3418.126.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wnpauls2 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 20 07:59:39 2003 From: wnpauls2 at yahoo.com (Paul Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Christmas In-Reply-To: <20031219210243.A25101@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031220135939.4041.qmail@web60003.mail.yahoo.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Dec 20 09:57:31 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <002f01c3c58f$8e151f50$24fea8c0@computer> Message-ID: <3FE4716B.9010907@visi.com> I have a Micron Transport XKE Mobil Pentium (one) 266mhx with 64mb RAM. I have Red Hat 8 and open office on it. It's not speedy but it is functional, I'm working on getting some more RAM (from MPC) for it. I believe if I can find 2 - 64mb sticks of RAM I'll have a fast machine (for total RAM of 160mb RAM). I did put another disk in the XKE and installed FreeBSD. I've found FreeBSD to be faster in X with KDE, but I need to spend time configuring it X to get it to run at higher resolution and more colors. FreeBSD is not as easy as Linux to configure. I was at MPC yesterday looking for parts for a Toshiba Satellite Pro 405c (P75 & 8mb RAM) They had a 32mb stick and a the external floppy drive for it ($30 total) I had RH 4.2 on it for a while but have volunteered it for use By a Scouter for His term as Wood Badge Director. It has W95 and Office 97 on it now, when I get it back in September it will get RH 6.2 installed on it :) I also found an RCA cable to connect my XKE to connect to a VCR-TV. I hope to be able to do presentations for Scouting using the XKE with Linux. MPC ROCKS! Sam. Steven Cayford wrote: >On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Lawrence Clemens wrote: > > >>[...] >>I challenge anyone to show me a Linux system with a functional GUI that will run on >>even a 266MHz P2 with 64 MB RAM. (I've tried mainstream stuff like SuSE >>[...] >>BTW if I have gotten it all wrong and you have systems that are dropins >>to older computers and easily adapt peripherals, I would love to hear >>from you and get educated. That's what TLUG is for. Thanks for the forum. >> >> > >Well, I'm writing from a P120 laptop with 48MB RAM running Debian and >using the fluxbox window manager. I admit waiting for Mozilla to start up >is tedious, but it works. > >strayf@freeshell.org >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com Sat Dec 20 11:13:59 2003 From: LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com (Lawrence Clemens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <002f01c3c58f$8e151f50$24fea8c0@computer> <3FE4716B.9010907@visi.com> Message-ID: <013801c3c71c$a8bf31e0$24fea8c0@computer> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hackel at walkingfish.com Sat Dec 20 14:08:21 2003 From: hackel at walkingfish.com (Ryan Hayle) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 2.6 Kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FE4AC35.8020906@walkingfish.com> Jima wrote: > Hmm. I downloaded it at 353K/s (yay, cable!), which took about 90-100 > seconds. (It's 32mb, mind.) I wonder why I can't get speeds like that > from other software vendors? > Just a thought. I almost always get ~400 K/s on my lovely Debian updates! apt-spy is your friend! Ryan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Dec 20 14:34:25 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <013801c3c71c$a8bf31e0$24fea8c0@computer> References: <3FE14F77.8070405@walkingfish.com> <002f01c3c58f$8e151f50$24fea8c0@computer> <3FE4716B.9010907@visi.com> <013801c3c71c$a8bf31e0$24fea8c0@computer> Message-ID: <3FE4B251.5020002@visi.com> Thanks for the complement but I'm no "Linux adept", I'm sure many could attest to that ;-) Clean drive no other OS on it. I put the CD in the drive and booted in to the installation. I stepped through the questions, told it what I wanted to install and only made one mistake, booting to an X Windows login. I didn't want to do that but was able to fix it with some help from LUG'rs. It was my own fault for clicking the mouse to fast. This is my advice to people who want to experiment with any OS's. Get a PC that has easy hardware configuration. Learn to install hard disk drives, then get 4 hard disk drives. Put what ever OS you "want" to have on each drive independently and label it as such with the following information. OS, Version, Date & Time, and a Yes or No to the question "Is data stored on the drive" if "Yes" it needs to be backed up before it's swapped from the system. This may sound expensive, it really isn't when you think of the lost data and time it takes to recover from one little mistake (see above). I'm a huge fan of old, high end servers, for home use. I have a Compaq Proliant 2500 with 5 - 4 gig disks in it in a Raid 5 configuration running W2K/sp4. This machine holds data for every day use, archive and printing. Using Samba from Linux to access drives on this machine took a little education but I now have shell scripts to do the mounts for me. This way I can have the PC's as a play ground and not loose data. I have no real data on any PC for more then the time it takes to copy it to my server. Some day I'll have a NIX box controlling the heating and cooling of my house and one for the future cabin. Sam. Lawrence Clemens wrote: > Sam > I know you Linux adepts do lots of mods on your systems, but do you recall > if you installed Red Hat 8 on a clean drive and came up with a system that > had a functional GUI? That is no further tricks, hacks or other linux > legerdemain? If so, his is close to what I am aiming for. Larry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Samuel MacDonald" > > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 9:57 AM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools > > > > I have a Micron Transport XKE Mobil Pentium (one) 266mhx with 64mb RAM. > > I have Red Hat 8 and open office on it. It's not speedy but it is > > functional, I'm working on getting some more RAM (from MPC) for it. I > > believe if I can find 2 - 64mb sticks of RAM I'll have a fast machine > > (for total RAM of 160mb RAM). > > > > I did put another disk in the XKE and installed FreeBSD. I've found > > FreeBSD to be faster in X with KDE, but I need to spend time configuring > > it X to get it to run at higher resolution and more colors. FreeBSD is > > not as easy as Linux to configure. > > > > I was at MPC yesterday looking for parts for a Toshiba Satellite Pro > > 405c (P75 & 8mb RAM) They had a 32mb stick and a the external floppy > > drive for it ($30 total) I had RH 4.2 on it for a while but have > > volunteered it for use By a Scouter for His term as Wood Badge > > Director. It has W95 and Office 97 on it now, when I get it back in > > September it will get RH 6.2 installed on it :) > > > > I also found an RCA cable to connect my XKE to connect to a VCR-TV. I > > hope to be able to do presentations for Scouting using the XKE with > Linux. > > > > MPC ROCKS! > > > > Sam. > > > > Steven Cayford wrote: > > > > >On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Lawrence Clemens wrote: > > > > > > > > >>[...] > > >>I challenge anyone to show me a Linux system with a functional GUI > that > will run on > > >>even a 266MHz P2 with 64 MB RAM. (I've tried mainstream stuff like > SuSE > > >>[...] > > >>BTW if I have gotten it all wrong and you have systems that are > dropins > > >>to older computers and easily adapt peripherals, I would love to hear > > >>from you and get educated. That's what TLUG is for. Thanks for the > forum. > > >> > > >> > > > > > >Well, I'm writing from a P120 laptop with 48MB RAM running Debian and > > >using the fluxbox window manager. I admit waiting for Mozilla to > start up > > >is tedious, but it works. > > > > > >strayf@freeshell.org > > >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sat Dec 20 15:00:37 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312202100.hBKL0bb18388@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: Want to Buy Subject: PIII 500 or better system I'm putting together a little project and need another box to work on. I'm looking for a PIII-500 or higher (or AMD750 or higher) with two serial ports on the board (this is an interfacing project so the com ports are a must). My next biggest criteria is price, I want *CHEAP*! ;-) I don't need a monitor/ keyboard/ mouse/ soundcard/ blah blah blah. Having a basic video card and a hard drive would be nice as would a decent amount of RAM (128meg or so). Essentially I'm just looking for a cheap bare bones system. Thanks, Ben. ben_bppdonlinecom http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Dec 20 15:18:42 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <200312202100.hBKL0bb18388@crusader.real-time.com> References: <200312202100.hBKL0bb18388@crusader.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3FE4BCB2.6030903@visi.com> Try Materials Processing Company. They have Dells and Compaq PIII 500 and 550s with tons of disk and ram for around $100.00 TCLUG Classifieds wrote: >New TCLUG Classified Ad > >Category: Computer > >Type of Ad: Want to Buy > >Subject: PIII 500 or better system > >I'm putting together a little project and need another box to work on. I'm looking for a PIII-500 or higher (or AMD750 or higher) with two serial ports on the board (this is an interfacing project so the com ports are a must). My next biggest criteria is price, I want *CHEAP*! ;-) I don't need a monitor/ keyboard/ mouse/ soundcard/ blah blah blah. Having a basic video card and a hard drive would be nice as would a decent amount of RAM (128meg or so). Essentially I'm just looking for a cheap bare bones system. >Thanks, >Ben. >ben_bppdonlinecom > >http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben_b at ppdonline.com Sat Dec 20 15:33:36 2003 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad References: <200312202100.hBKL0bb18388@crusader.real-time.com> <3FE4BCB2.6030903@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FE4C030.8DD38D80@ppdonline.com> Samuel MacDonald wrote: > > Try Materials Processing Company. > They have Dells and Compaq PIII 500 and 550s with tons of disk and ram > for around $100.00 Do you happen to have a phone number or email addy for those folks? Are they local in the cities? Thanks, Ben. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Dec 20 15:53:31 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <3FE4C030.8DD38D80@ppdonline.com> References: <200312202100.hBKL0bb18388@crusader.real-time.com> <3FE4BCB2.6030903@visi.com> <3FE4C030.8DD38D80@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <3FE4C4DB.4020005@visi.com> http://www.materialsprocessing.com Be Sure to check the days they are open and hours. I think the days and hours are Thursday and Friday from 1:00PM - 5:00PM Sam. Ben Bargabus wrote: >Samuel MacDonald wrote: > > >>Try Materials Processing Company. >>They have Dells and Compaq PIII 500 and 550s with tons of disk and ram >>for around $100.00 >> >> > > >Do you happen to have a phone number or email addy for those folks? Are >they local in the cities? >Thanks, >Ben. > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Sat Dec 20 18:03:05 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Christmas [OT] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 05:59:39 -0800 (PST) > From: Paul Schumacher > Have a happy Christmas and New Year. > Paul This is the kind of off-topic crap that really grates my cheese. Humbug! Not really. A very healthy and happy Christmas/Hanukah/Kwanzaa/Solstice and Generic Holiday Greeting to all. Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Sat Dec 20 19:16:17 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] fedora install not seeing promise tx2 pro as hardware raid Message-ID: <030901c3c760$08e94900$0a00a8c0@DELL2> On another list there was an extended conversation on what to use for a hardware raid device. An inexpensive solution mentioned was the promise tx2 pro. If I can get it to work it will be a good choice for our church. On boot up I am able to create a mirror of two 30 Gig drives, but on install fedora sees both drives, hde and hdg. I wrestled with it for a while, but it seems the raid utility writes something to the hard drives that Linux doesn't like. I did go ahead with an install to see what would happen, and of course on a reboot the raid utility shows the mirror in a critical state, etc.... I broke the mirror and duplicated the drives, hoping it might somehow work, but it will not boot. If I boot to the cdrom and the install complains about two devices labeled /. Promise has a little bit of code available, but I am not sure how to put it to use on an install. Any ideas how to get past this? Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Dec 20 20:11:51 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I got caught up in it! [OFF TOPIC] Message-ID: <3FE50167.6000401@visi.com> I hope this turns out! * *** ***** ******* ********* *********** ************* *************** ***************** ******************* ********************* # # % % % %%% %%% % % %% %% %% % % % % % % % % % % % % %%% %%% % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % % @@@ @ @ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @ @ @ @@@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @@@ @@@ @ @@ @ @ @ @ @@@ @@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @@@ @ @ @ @ @@@ @@@ @ @ @ @ @ @@@ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat Dec 20 21:22:22 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I got caught up in it! [OFF TOPIC] In-Reply-To: <3FE50167.6000401@visi.com> References: <3FE50167.6000401@visi.com> Message-ID: <2819.68.112.123.230.1071976942.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> > I hope this turns out! My mail client munged it unfortuantely. Since we're playing with ASCII Christmas stuff, here's some fun code for the C++ gurus. Enjoy! ------------------------------------------------------------------- #include main(t,_,a) char *a; { return!0 When I find a benefit to web browsing folks I have to talk about it. I found this web site this morning http://www.accs-net.com/hosts I'm so happy I found it, it's a simple solution to stopping adds. It uses the hosts file to stop adds from displaying in your browser or pop ups It blocks other things as well, like the menu at the top of the Yahoo site but if you know where the mail icon is.... They have a Linux and MAC version of the hosts file as well. Basically it directs the evil site to 127.0.0.1 LOLROF the localhost So simple so effective. For the M$ folks they have an application "HostToggle" for switching their hosts file with a default hosts file. Have your cake and eat it to. For the Linux folks, it comes with source, so all you programmers on the LUG, have at it, I believe it's written in basic. If you get it work in Linux I would suggest talking to the people at the above website. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JENTGES.NET Sun Dec 21 10:02:07 2003 From: mike at JENTGES.NET (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Simple Add Blocking [Off Topic] In-Reply-To: <3FE5BC5C.9090505@visi.com> References: <3FE5BC5C.9090505@visi.com> Message-ID: <4600.199.199.150.6.1072022527.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Heh. I tried that a while back with them worms and what not. Wondered if it worked. :) I've also added a 'default.ida' just to see what'd happen but it looks like nothing, at least as far as my logs go. -mj Here's what Samuel MacDonald babbled earlier : > When I find a benefit to web browsing folks I have to talk about it. I found this > web site this morning http://www.accs-net.com/hosts > > I'm so happy I found it, it's a simple solution to stopping adds. > > It uses the hosts file to stop adds from displaying in your browser or pop ups > It blocks other things as well, like the menu at the top of the Yahoo site > but if you know where the mail icon is.... > > They have a Linux and MAC version of the hosts file as well. > > Basically it directs the evil site to 127.0.0.1 LOLROF the localhost So simple > so effective. > > For the M$ folks they have an application "HostToggle" for switching their hosts > file with a > default hosts file. Have your cake and eat it to. > For the Linux folks, it comes with source, so all you programmers on the LUG, have > at it, > I believe it's written in basic. If you get it work in Linux I would suggest > talking to the people > at the above website. > > > Sam. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clarson at iaxs.net Sun Dec 21 11:54:30 2003 From: clarson at iaxs.net (Chester Larson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with setup Message-ID: <000e01c3c7eb$7c8a3460$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JENTGES.NET Sun Dec 21 12:25:31 2003 From: mike at JENTGES.NET (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with setup In-Reply-To: <000e01c3c7eb$7c8a3460$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d> References: <000e01c3c7eb$7c8a3460$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d> Message-ID: <2099.199.199.150.6.1072031131.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Hi Chester... IIRC, this was an issue at an installfest once. Must've gotten a new box eh? :) Can you offer more details? Are you still doing the dialup thing or broadband or...? Specific errors would be a big help as well... -mj Here's what Chester Larson babbled earlier : > Hi all, > > Have this box. > Microtel system as follow: 800Mhz VIA C3 processor > 128MB memory > 10 GB > CD-ROM > Integrated 10/100 Lan > Red Hat 8.0 > Zoom Modem 56 > Problem: Can not get connected to my ISP or the Internet > Can anyone help me? > Chester Larson -- --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Dec 21 12:51:35 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with setup In-Reply-To: <2099.199.199.150.6.1072031131.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> References: <000e01c3c7eb$7c8a3460$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d> <2099.199.199.150.6.1072031131.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Message-ID: <3FE5EBB7.7060604@visi.com> go to a shell an type su root [enter] [enter] ifconfig We need to know... is eth0 defined? do you have an ip address" do you have a subnet mask? do you have a default gateway? Sam. Michael Jentges wrote: >Hi Chester... > >IIRC, this was an issue at an installfest once. Must've gotten a new box eh? :) > >Can you offer more details? Are you still doing the dialup thing or broadband or...? > >Specific errors would be a big help as well... > >-mj > > > >Here's what Chester Larson babbled earlier : > > >> Hi all, >> >> Have this box. >> Microtel system as follow: 800Mhz VIA C3 processor >> 128MB memory >> 10 GB >> CD-ROM >> Integrated 10/100 Lan >> Red Hat 8.0 >> Zoom Modem 56 >> Problem: Can not get connected to my ISP or the Internet >> Can anyone help me? >> Chester Larson >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clarson at iaxs.net Sun Dec 21 13:56:39 2003 From: clarson at iaxs.net (Chester Larson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with setup References: <000e01c3c7eb$7c8a3460$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d> <2099.199.199.150.6.1072031131.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Message-ID: <001901c3c7fc$8d1f7180$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d> Hi Mike, Am still doing dialup. My ISP is InfinityAccessNet. Other box was Zenith and RH 7.2 Can get dial tone and ring out but will not let me hang up to redail Can ping to my machine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Jentges" To: Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Help with setup > > Hi Chester... > > IIRC, this was an issue at an installfest once. Must've gotten a new box eh? :) > > Can you offer more details? Are you still doing the dialup thing or broadband or...? > > Specific errors would be a big help as well... > > -mj > > > > Here's what Chester Larson babbled earlier : > > Hi all, > > > > Have this box. > > Microtel system as follow: 800Mhz VIA C3 processor > > 128MB memory > > 10 GB > > CD-ROM > > Integrated 10/100 Lan > > Red Hat 8.0 > > Zoom Modem 56 > > Problem: Can not get connected to my ISP or the Internet > > Can anyone help me? > > Chester Larson > > > -- > --------------------- > Jentges.NET, Inc. > Voice: 763.783.3702 > Cell: 763.370.1201 > --------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clarson at iaxs.net Sun Dec 21 14:19:02 2003 From: clarson at iaxs.net (Chester Larson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with setup References: <000e01c3c7eb$7c8a3460$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d><2099.199.199.150.6.1072031131.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> <3FE5EBB7.7060604@visi.com> Message-ID: <002001c3c7ff$ad367100$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d> This what I have: lo Link encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 RX packets:134 TX packets: 134 Does that help, Sam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Samuel MacDonald" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Help with setup > go to a shell an type > > su root [enter] > [enter] > ifconfig > > We need to know... > is eth0 defined? no > do you have an ip address"no > do you have a subnet mask?no > do you have a default gateway?no > > Sam. > > > > Michael Jentges wrote: > > >Hi Chester... > > > >IIRC, this was an issue at an installfest once. Must've gotten a new box eh? :) > > > >Can you offer more details? Are you still doing the dialup thing or broadband or...? > > > >Specific errors would be a big help as well... > > > >-mj > > > > > > > >Here's what Chester Larson babbled earlier : > > > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> Have this box. > >> Microtel system as follow: 800Mhz VIA C3 processor > >> 128MB memory > >> 10 GB > >> CD-ROM > >> Integrated 10/100 Lan > >> Red Hat 8.0 > >> Zoom Modem 56 > >> Problem: Can not get connected to my ISP or the Internet > >> Can anyone help me? > >> Chester Larson > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JENTGES.NET Sun Dec 21 14:43:31 2003 From: mike at JENTGES.NET (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with setup In-Reply-To: <002001c3c7ff$ad367100$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d> References: <000e01c3c7eb$7c8a3460$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d><2099.199.199.150.6.1072031131.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> <3FE5EBB7.7060604@visi.com> <002001c3c7ff$ad367100$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d> Message-ID: <3448.199.199.150.6.1072039411.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> To be clear, you should have what Sam mentioned when you're dialed in. You currently only have the loopback iface. Basically connected to nothing. If you're using dialup, you'll need to use the same ifconfig command and look for a new ppp0 interface as well. If you get the ppp0 interface, try pinging 199.199.150.254 and let me know what you get. -mj Here's what Chester Larson babbled earlier : > This what I have: > lo Link encap:Local Loopback > inet addr:127.0.0.1 > Mask:255.0.0.0 > UP LOOPBACK RUNNING > MTU:16436 > RX packets:134 > TX packets: 134 > Does that help, Sam > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Samuel MacDonald" > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 12:51 PM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Help with setup > > >> go to a shell an type >> >> su root [enter] >> [enter] >> ifconfig >> >> We need to know... >> is eth0 defined? no >> do you have an ip address"no >> do you have a subnet mask?no >> do you have a default gateway?no >> >> Sam. >> >> >> >> Michael Jentges wrote: >> >> >Hi Chester... >> > >> >IIRC, this was an issue at an installfest once. Must've gotten a new box > eh? :) >> > >> >Can you offer more details? Are you still doing the dialup thing or > broadband or...? >> > >> >Specific errors would be a big help as well... >> > >> >-mj >> > >> > >> > >> >Here's what Chester Larson babbled earlier : >> > >> > >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Have this box. >> >> Microtel system as follow: 800Mhz VIA C3 processor >> >> 128MB memory >> >> 10 GB >> >> CD-ROM >> >> Integrated 10/100 Lan Red Hat 8.0 >> >> Zoom Modem 56 >> >> Problem: Can not get connected to my ISP or the Internet >> >> Can anyone help me? >> >> Chester Larson >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Sun Dec 21 14:51:00 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux based network diagramming tool? Message-ID: <20031221145100.44ca2305.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Anyone know of a good Linux based tool (read: GUI) that allows you to draw nice looking network topology diagrams? Wouldn't need to be complicated. Thx, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clarson at iaxs.net Sun Dec 21 14:53:18 2003 From: clarson at iaxs.net (Chester Larson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with setup References: <000e01c3c7eb$7c8a3460$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d> <2099.199.199.150.6.1072031131.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Message-ID: <000601c3c804$78801470$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d> Hi Mike, My ISP is InfinityAccessNet IP address is 209.134.134.134 209.134.134.135 Does any of this help? Chester ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Jentges" To: Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Help with setup > > Hi Chester... > > IIRC, this was an issue at an installfest once. Must've gotten a new box eh? :) > > Can you offer more details? Are you still doing the dialup thing or broadband or...? > > Specific errors would be a big help as well... > > -mj > > > > Here's what Chester Larson babbled earlier : > > Hi all, > > > > Have this box. > > Microtel system as follow: 800Mhz VIA C3 processor > > 128MB memory > > 10 GB > > CD-ROM > > Integrated 10/100 Lan > > Red Hat 8.0 > > Zoom Modem 56 > > Problem: Can not get connected to my ISP or the Internet > > Can anyone help me? > > Chester Larson > > > -- > --------------------- > Jentges.NET, Inc. > Voice: 763.783.3702 > Cell: 763.370.1201 > --------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Sun Dec 21 15:10:38 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux based network diagramming tool? In-Reply-To: <20031221145100.44ca2305.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031221145100.44ca2305.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031221151038.A24193@baker.space.umn.edu> On Sun, Dec 21, 2003 at 02:51:00PM -0600, Josh Trutwin wrote: > Anyone know of a good Linux based tool (read: GUI) that allows > you to draw nice looking network topology diagrams? Wouldn't > need to be complicated. xfig -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Sun Dec 21 15:18:21 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux based network diagramming tool? In-Reply-To: <20031221145100.44ca2305.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>; from josh@trutwins.homeip.net on Sun, Dec 21, 2003 at 02:51:00PM -0600 References: <20031221145100.44ca2305.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031221151821.A4946@thinkunix.net> dia: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~alla/dia/ xfig: http://www.xfig.org/ I think most distros come with xfig. Josh Trutwin wrote: > Anyone know of a good Linux based tool (read: GUI) that allows you to draw nice looking network topology diagrams? Wouldn't need to be complicated. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Sun Dec 21 16:11:47 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] vgetty and modems In-Reply-To: <3FE1FB91.4050000@structural-wood.com>; from kent@structural-wood.com on Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 01:10:09PM -0600 References: <3FE1FB91.4050000@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20031221161147.A7634@thinkunix.net> Kent Schumacher wrote: > Is anyone here using vgetty? What sort of modem are you using? > I can't seem to find any recommendations for a modern modem. I tried setting this up earlier this year but didn't get too far with it. Initially I tried a cheap ($80) external Zoom voice modem from Microcenter. No luck getting that to work so I returned it. More research, and I settled on a Multitech modem. They looked like the best chance for success, plus they're HQ is here in Minneapolis which is nice. I called asked for a recommendation on a voice/data/fax modem that would work with Linux. They sales guy I talked to was helpful and honest and didn't flinch when I said Linux. He recommended model MT5634ZBA-V-V92 which listed for about $200. He suggested I shop around for a better price instead of buying direct from them, which I thought was nice. I bought mine online from CDW, another vendor I would recommend. I managed to get vgetty to talk to the modem but I had to recompile the mgetty software from source because the firmware version string is hardcoded in the source. This makes it impossible to flash your modem's firmware or replace the modem entirely and still expect vgetty to work. I really belongs in a config file. I got vgetty to answer incoming calls and record them but I couldn't get it to play the outgoing greeting, which is kind of useless for an answering device. The recordings sounded like chipmunks too. I gave up after a while. I meant to look at VOCP [1] to see if it would work any better. I'd be interested in hearing others' success/horror stories with vgetty, vocp or anything else that lets your modem act as an answering machine. [1] http://vocp.sourceforge.net/ -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Dec 21 19:07:34 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with setup In-Reply-To: <000601c3c804$78801470$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d> References: <000e01c3c7eb$7c8a3460$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d> <2099.199.199.150.6.1072031131.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> <000601c3c804$78801470$0100a8c0@yourrvlnhr6v8d> Message-ID: <3FE643D6.6030307@visi.com> OK when you do the ifconfig you need to type everything you see If it says "ipaddress = 111.222.333.444" you need to put that whole thin in the email. Do this for everything the ifconfig displays So you can dialin to your ISP but you can't surf the internet? Is that whats happening? Sam. Chester Larson wrote: >Hi Mike, My ISP is InfinityAccessNet IP address is 209.134.134.134 > >209.134.134.135 >Does any of this help? > Chester > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Michael Jentges" >To: >Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 12:25 PM >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Help with setup > > > > >>Hi Chester... >> >>IIRC, this was an issue at an installfest once. Must've gotten a new box >> >> >eh? :) > > >>Can you offer more details? Are you still doing the dialup thing or >> >> >broadband or...? > > >>Specific errors would be a big help as well... >> >>-mj >> >> >> >>Here's what Chester Larson babbled earlier : >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Have this box. >>> Microtel system as follow: 800Mhz VIA C3 processor >>> 128MB memory >>> 10 GB >>> CD-ROM >>> Integrated 10/100 Lan >>> Red Hat 8.0 >>> Zoom Modem 56 >>> Problem: Can not get connected to my ISP or the Internet >>> Can anyone help me? >>> Chester Larson >>> >>> >>-- >>--------------------- >>Jentges.NET, Inc. >>Voice: 763.783.3702 >>Cell: 763.370.1201 >>--------------------- >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Mon Dec 22 07:44:54 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] vgetty and modems References: <3FE1FB91.4050000@structural-wood.com> <20031221161147.A7634@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3FE6F556.2010005@structural-wood.com> Scot Jenkins wrote: > Kent Schumacher wrote: > >>Is anyone here using vgetty? What sort of modem are you using? >>I can't seem to find any recommendations for a modern modem. > > > > I'd be interested in hearing others' success/horror stories with > vgetty, vocp or anything else that lets your modem act as an answering > machine. > Here is where I'm at... About a week ago I was told that a better voice mail system for our salespersons would be a good thing, but that getting a whole new phone system would not be. While looking at possibilities I decided to see what vgetty offered, so I grabbed an old 1996 era Cardinal modem from my junk pile, plugged it into a serial port, and it worked perfectly. I looked on the net and saw a lot of new voice modems for around $30, so I thought 'Wow! I can get this whole thing done for around $180... I'll be a hero!'. So, I ordered one of the modems off the net, and then spent about 18 hours coding up a really nice voice mail system specifically for our company using the cardinal modem. The new modem arrived, I plugged it in, and it didn't work at all... I thought 'Oh my god, I've wasted $30! They're going to kill me!'. So I decided to save my life and coded up a new vgetty 'driver' for the modem. At the moment it works almost perfectly, but there are few little issues (DTMF detection misses short presses, recording termination sends termination events differently depending on how termination occurs). I expect I'll have the above fixed this morning. I'll probably send patches to the vgetty mailing list after it has been in production a bit. Nope, I'm not going to tell anyone the name of the modem yet. I need to order several of these and the last time I announced that a piece of hardware was compatible with Linux the darn things sold out before I could get all I needed. (and yes, that is a silly but true statement). Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lists at chuckhays.net Mon Dec 22 10:37:13 2003 From: lists at chuckhays.net (Chuck Hays) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best webmail? Message-ID: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Does anyone here have any recommendations as to the best web mail package? Advantages? Disadvantages? Thanks, -Chuck Hays _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Mon Dec 22 10:52:27 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best webmail? In-Reply-To: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org>; from lists@chuckhays.net on Mon, Dec 22, 2003 at 10:37:13AM -0600 References: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20031222105227.A32667@thinkunix.net> http://www.squirrelmail.org/ Advantages: minimal frills, simple to install, few requirements, easy to add plugins, many plugins available, actively developed, etc... Disadvantages: debian stable's PHP version doesn't support IMAP/SSL so you're probably best to run the IMAP server on the same box as the webmail box, unless you have a trusted network. Chuck Hays wrote: > Does anyone here have any recommendations as to the best web mail > package? Advantages? Disadvantages? > > Thanks, > > -Chuck Hays > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Dec 22 11:00:00 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best webmail? In-Reply-To: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org> References: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1072112398.14796.66.camel@unixws1> I think I've mentioned it before, but we are using OpenWebmail and absolutely love it. The install was rather painless under FreeBSD, YMMV under Linux. It's Perl, and there are some modules that will need to be installed. I think it also requires Perl 5.8. I've heard good things about Squirrel Mail, but haven't used it myself. On Mon, 2003-12-22 at 10:37, Chuck Hays wrote: > Does anyone here have any recommendations as to the best web mail > package? Advantages? Disadvantages? > > Thanks, > > -Chuck Hays > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Dec 22 11:17:14 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best webmail? In-Reply-To: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org> References: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20031222111714.1093c932.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On 22 Dec 2003 10:37:13 -0600 Chuck Hays wrote: > Does anyone here have any recommendations as to the best web mail > package? Advantages? Disadvantages? I've been using Squirrelmail for the last 2 years. It's OK. What I like: Lots of plugins, if you need it chances are someone has developed a plugin for it. Suports IMAP pretty well. PhP based. MySQL can be used as a backend for storing user prefs and addresses. They also have a friendly and helpful ML for support. It's also free and open source. What I don't like: Some plugins don't play well together, I've noticed some strange things. Some plugins aren't actively developed or maintained. Over 1 year ago someone told me they had a solution for the Autocomplete (Uses JavaScript to auto complete email addresses from your address book as you type their email or name in the compose field, ala Groupwise) that worked on Gecko browsers, the current plugin only works for IE. Still hasn't been integrated into the plugin (it's just Javascript, you'd think Gecko would support this easily). Plugin maintenance is an absolute nightmare. Many developers do not follow the established standard, sometimes they post an announcement on the SM Plugins ML, many times they don't. Someone wrote a plugin update plugin which was designed to sync plugins with the latest releases or at least tell you which plugins were out of date, but that didn't take off. Doesn't work well with safe_mode enabled, mostly because of poorly written plugins. I also have trouble with PhP sessions. Sometimes when my wife logs into her account on one computer and I log into my account on another computer things act "funny". Might be a configuration problem with PhP and nothing to do with Squirrelmail though... Also seems that ever since they started the 1.4.2 branch that the development has slowed down. This can be viewed as either a good or a bad thing. If you are interested, I can set you up with a demo account. Contact me offlist. I've stopped using Squirrelmail because I REALLY wanted a threaded MUA for all the ML stuff I get (like TCLUG, TCPHP, qmail, etc) and SquirrelMail does not have a plugin for email threads which makes following an ML thread a real headache, so I use Slypheed-Claws for the most part, which is pretty good and works on both Linux and M$. (Anyone know of a better portable threaded email client?) Here's my collection of webmail related links (note, some of these are not free/Open Source): http://atmail.com/index.ehtml (Perl webmail client) http://freshmeat.net/projects/phpwebmail/ (PhPWebMail) http://jwma.sourceforge.net/ (Java Webmail) http://main.linuxfocus.org/~guido/ (lfw lightweight webmail) http://openbottle.sourceforge.net/ (OpenBottle anti-spam and webmail) http://openwebmail.org/ (openwebmail) http://www.b1g.info/ (PhP Mysql webmail) http://www.binary-pulse.org/projects/ids/66/ (Another php webmail) http://www.cascadesoft.com/products/w3mail/1.0/ (Webmail Server Application) http://www.horde.org/ (Horde products including IMP webmail) http://www.nulllogic.com/webmail/ (Null Webmail - Small C-based quick webmail) Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Dec 22 11:23:04 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best webmail? In-Reply-To: <1072112398.14796.66.camel@unixws1> References: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org> <1072112398.14796.66.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <20031222112304.47d4a674.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:00:00 -0600 Adam Maloney wrote: > I think I've mentioned it before, but we are using OpenWebmail and > absolutely love it. The install was rather painless under FreeBSD, YMMV > under Linux. It's Perl, and there are some modules that will need to be > installed. I think it also requires Perl 5.8. Will it work with mod_perl and Apache 2.0? Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Dec 22 11:21:57 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best webmail? In-Reply-To: <20031222105227.A32667@thinkunix.net> References: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org> <20031222105227.A32667@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20031222112157.0fa43f5b.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:52:27 -0600 Scot Jenkins wrote: > http://www.squirrelmail.org/ [...] > Disadvantages: > debian stable's PHP version doesn't support IMAP/SSL so you're probably > best to run the IMAP server on the same box as the webmail box, unless > you have a trusted network. FWIW, IMAP/SSL requires PhP 4.3.x: "Can I use SquirrelMail to connect to an IMAP server via SSL? Yes, SquirrelMail support IMAP-SSL only in combination with PHP 4.3.x or higher. Otherwise you can use stunnel (http://www.stunnel.org) to connect it to SSL enabled IMAP server." Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Dec 22 11:46:15 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best webmail? In-Reply-To: <20031222105227.A32667@thinkunix.net> References: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org> <20031222105227.A32667@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3935.156.99.116.45.1072115175.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> > http://www.squirrelmail.org/ No doubt about it. I'm writing this on Squirrelmail right now :-) The debian version doesn't support IMAP/SSL, and the unstable version of UW-IMAP is SSL only. If you're running Debian unstable, you need to grab the stable version of IMAP or compile it yourself. Once I knew that the installation was painless on Debian. I'm waiting for the next major release. 2.0 is going to be a complete rewrite, including many user submitted add-ons. Mainly virtual hosting and SSL support. Since we're discussing Squirrelmail, here's how I made virtual hosting work on my box. I have: domain1.com domain2.com domain3.com I set up Apache/mod_ssl so any connection to https://anyiporhostonmybox/ gets directed to /usr/share/squirrelmail. I then set up mail.domain1.com to redirect to https://mail.domain1.com, and so forth for all the other domains. I then added the following to config.php: $lxy_host_array = explode(".", $_SERVER['HTTP_HOST']); $lxy_host = $lxy_host_array[count($lxy_host_array) - 2]; $lxy_host .= "."; $lxy_host .= $lxy_host_array[count($lxy_host_array) - 1]; // $domain = implode('', file('/etc/hostname')); $domain = $lxy_host; My code works but it's inefficient. I think I can reduce that to one line, but I'm not sure how. Anyway, good luck to you. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Dec 22 11:51:53 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best webmail? In-Reply-To: <20031222112304.47d4a674.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org> <1072112398.14796.66.camel@unixws1> <20031222112304.47d4a674.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1072115511.14796.83.camel@unixws1> Will it work in a boat, will it work with a goat? I have not tried it here or there, I have not tried it everywhere. With mod_perl I do not know, nor Apache two point oh. Look Sam I Am, it works for me, Apache 1 and Free Bee Ess Dee! Sorry...it's those darn Dr. Seuss commercials. On Mon, 2003-12-22 at 11:23, Josh Trutwin wrote: > On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:00:00 -0600 > Adam Maloney wrote: > > > I think I've mentioned it before, but we are using OpenWebmail and > > absolutely love it. The install was rather painless under FreeBSD, YMMV > > under Linux. It's Perl, and there are some modules that will need to be > > installed. I think it also requires Perl 5.8. > > Will it work with mod_perl and Apache 2.0? > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Mon Dec 22 14:12:44 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] san presentation In-Reply-To: <20031210013245.GA11907@refried.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 nate@refried.org wrote: > On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 02:43:30PM -0600, Neigebauer, Ben wrote: > > Did the SAN presentation happen? > > Nope, you didn't miss it. I'm shooting to get it well organized for a > February or March meeting. Any help would be appreciated. I am in a position where I MAY be able to assist with organization and such for things SAN related. Is there someone I can contact directly about this? ------------- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at MarkCourtney.com Mon Dec 22 14:28:43 2003 From: tclug at MarkCourtney.com (Mark Courtney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best webmail? In-Reply-To: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org> References: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <46394.12.98.223.34.1072124923.squirrel@webmail.markcourtney.com> I would suggest SquirrelMail as well. I've used it for a couple of years now. I do agree that the plugins are kinda flaky at times, but it is what it is. I've tried a few different webmail interfaces like NeoMail, and acme sumthin' er other, and a few other goodies I found on freshmeat.net. I think SM is the webmail of choice for most. While the development on SM has perhaps slowed down as of late, I still think it has more aggressive development than other webmail programs. Mark Courtney http://www.MarkCourtney.com __ +|oo|+ +|oo|+ || || || || || || _ || _ \\_||_// | [] | | || | / [] \ \______/ > Does anyone here have any recommendations as to the best web mail > package? Advantages? Disadvantages? > > Thanks, > > -Chuck Hays > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com Mon Dec 22 14:28:29 2003 From: Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com (Ben Neigebauer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] san presentation Message-ID: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD361F@owa.compellent.com> Does anyone have demo equipment? -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Justin Kremer Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:13 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] san presentation On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 nate@refried.org wrote: > On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 02:43:30PM -0600, Neigebauer, Ben wrote: > > Did the SAN presentation happen? > > Nope, you didn't miss it. I'm shooting to get it well organized for a > February or March meeting. Any help would be appreciated. I am in a position where I MAY be able to assist with organization and such for things SAN related. Is there someone I can contact directly about this? ------------- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Mon Dec 22 14:38:04 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] san presentation In-Reply-To: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD361F@owa.compellent.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Dec 2003, Ben Neigebauer wrote: > > Does anyone have demo equipment? I have some people looking into it. At this point I can only say maybe. ------------- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Dec 22 15:55:14 2003 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <3FE1C634.9060306@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: Probally beating a dead hourse at this point, but I haven't read tclug for a week. Please forgive me if I missed the Nazi post. ;) I don't care how much any full time studen whines, school at any level is not "the real world." There are tasks in schools that Linux is well suited to. * Web Kisoks * Into to typing/keyboarding. * telnet client (think libiary lookup system. this can fall into web kisok) * network services. Many technical courses are just not going to work on Linux. Basic electronics, Publishing, CAD, and other stuff. On the administrative side, Linux/Windows/Macs are pretty much equal IMHO IF (and that's a big IF) you know what you're doing. The problem with technology in schools are that the wrong people are making the technology decisions. The school board/community thinks that the "real world" is Windows 9x and Office 97 or 2000. If you walk into a business of any size, I'm sure you'll find at least one PC with Win 9x and Office 97. Now think about it, what do these people have at home? Increasingly it is Windows XP and the latest version of Office, but why do we on the LUG promote Linux as great for old PCs? Because there are lots of PCs out there running Windows 95/98/ME. Only last month did I finially get my dad off a Pentium Classic running Win95. So a majority of people making the technology decisions are running old harware with some of the worst possible operating systems. So what ends up in schools? Not Linux. If your'e lucky you get Win NT/2000/XP. If you're not lucky, you get Win 9x and Netware (or other equally bad combinations.) Unless there is a sudden influx of people who can administrate a Linux machine, I don't want to see Linux in the schools. Leave Linux in the schools to the parties who are willing to take it on to accomplish their educational goals. For everyone else, please give them Win2000/XP or Mac OSX and limit administrator access to administrators... Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Dec 22 16:02:08 2003 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Christmas [OT] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Merry non-denominational winter season. Now if you'll all excuse me, I have to go home and prepare myself a bucket of water balloons. I'm expecting carolers. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 22 17:25:09 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Christmas [OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FE77D55.5000102@visi.com> LOLROF! Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: >Merry non-denominational winter season. > >Now if you'll all excuse me, I have to go home and prepare myself a bucket >of water balloons. I'm expecting carolers. > >Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org > A password is like your underwear; Change it > frequently, don't share it with others, and > don't ask to borrow someone else's. > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From escargo at skypoint.com Mon Dec 22 22:55:47 2003 From: escargo at skypoint.com (David S. Cargo) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: WM for old Hardware - was Re: [TCLUG] Minnesota Computers For Schools In-Reply-To: <20031219055257.60fa7d7a.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <00ed01c3c5d4$0c094aa0$24fea8c0@computer> <20031219055257.60fa7d7a.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 05:52:57 -0600, you wrote: >On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:35:11 -0600 >johnny fulcrum wrote: > >I used to have an IBM Thinkpad P2-300 that I'd run Slackware on, and I >used fvwm2 on it. I still use fvwm2, even on my P4-2.53GHz desktop. >At work my desktop is a P2-266, and fvwm2 runs just as nicely there as >at home. > >Slackware + fvwm2 = bliss for me! =) For a bare-bones window manager, I use Blackbox. If I want more of a light-weight desktop environment, I have used XFCE, which has recently released version 4.0.1. escargo David S. Cargo (escargo@skypoint.com) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue Dec 23 07:28:11 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312231328.hBNDSBt31925@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: IBM ThinkPad 380ED 166MMX, 32MB, 12.1 display, network card, Modem (not tested), CDROM, floppy, battery will not hold a charge, can only run plugged in with adapter. make an offer. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Tue Dec 23 09:09:53 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: It's a boy! Message-ID: <1072192192.14796.203.camel@unixws1> Well, er, boys. And girls. This is as close as I'll ever get to the "I'm a daddy" post. Saturday night at 10:00 our 2 year old Rott (V2 CH Blackheart's Catch Me If U Can CGC, "Nala") finally had her puppies. She popped out 3 up until 10:30, and then a stillborn boy. All in all she had 10 living until Sunday night, when the 2 smallest died :( The remaining 8 are healthy and happy, and mom is slowly getting used to them. All but a couple were breech, and we had to give her a shot about 2 hours into it to force the remaining ones out. My wife is maintaining a page about the litter, and you can see the lineage and championships for both parents: http://www.dakotamoonrottweilers.com/litters.html (Picture on the left is the sire (pretty obvious...). We sent Nala out east to get knocked up). Nala is the picture on the right. The guy on the left is the judge from whatever show that was, and the guy on the right is our ring handler. Incidentally, Nala's grandfather, CH. Chewbacca vom Mayhaus, "Chewbacca" was the mascot for the Hummer. No puppy pics on the page yet, but "real soon now". And sorry, but we have buyers lined up for all of the pups :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Tue Dec 23 10:01:54 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: It's a boy! In-Reply-To: <1072192192.14796.203.camel@unixws1> References: <1072192192.14796.203.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Adam Maloney wrote: > Well, er, boys. And girls. This is as close as I'll ever get to the > "I'm a daddy" post. > > Saturday night at 10:00 our 2 year old Rott (V2 CH Blackheart's Catch Me > If U Can CGC, "Nala") finally had her puppies. She popped out 3 up > until 10:30, and then a stillborn boy. All in all she had 10 living > until Sunday night, when the 2 smallest died :( The remaining 8 are > healthy and happy, and mom is slowly getting used to them. Congrats! -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at igi.com Tue Dec 23 10:41:56 2003 From: jasonj at igi.com (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fiber [OT] Message-ID: <3FE87054.4070409@igi.com> We have fiber running between our 2 office buildings. On each end of the fiber we have one of these devices to convert to ethernet http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?ProductID=247614 Basically it looks like a fiber (BNC connections) to RJ-45 converter. We are pretty sure the fiber should support 1000base with no problems. So I am looking for a drop in replacement for the 100base converter units. Or some local consultant or company we could get out here to put new ends on the fiber for a non-drop in replacement converter. Other suggestions and comments welcome. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ericebner at nsatel.net Tue Dec 23 11:22:49 2003 From: ericebner at nsatel.net (Eric Ebner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fiber [OT] In-Reply-To: <3FE87054.4070409@igi.com> Message-ID: Here is an option that is just really an upgrade from what you are currently using: http://www.transition.com/products/mcon_platform/standalone/gigabit/index.ht m You may want to see if you can push multimode over your fiber. If you need more bandwidth a upgrade from single to multi sometimes is the ticket, however can be expensive. How many fibers are in you wire? Two? Four? You may also want to look into segmenting your network, taking the computers that talk to each other the most at each building and placing them on a separate segment. Just some thoughts, let me know if you want more. Eric 23/12/2003 10:41, "Jason Jorgensen" wrote: > We have fiber running between our 2 office buildings. On each end of the > fiber we have one of these devices to convert to ethernet > http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?ProductID=247614 > > Basically it looks like a fiber (BNC connections) to RJ-45 converter. > > We are pretty sure the fiber should support 1000base with no problems. > So I am looking for a drop in replacement for the 100base converter > units. Or some local consultant or company we could get out here to put > new ends on the fiber for a non-drop in replacement converter. > > Other suggestions and comments welcome. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eh at constantdata.com Tue Dec 23 11:20:20 2003 From: eh at constantdata.com (Abderrahman El Haddi.) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linus Torvalds & SCO Message-ID: Thought some of you may like to this post from Linus. http://lwn.net/Articles/64207/ --el www.constantdata.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 23 12:13:27 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: It's a boy! In-Reply-To: <1072192192.14796.203.camel@unixws1> References: <1072192192.14796.203.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <3FE885C7.1070006@visi.com> Congratulations! Puppies are so much fun to have around, even if it's for a short time. Sam. Adam Maloney wrote: >Well, er, boys. And girls. This is as close as I'll ever get to the >"I'm a daddy" post. > >Saturday night at 10:00 our 2 year old Rott (V2 CH Blackheart's Catch Me >If U Can CGC, "Nala") finally had her puppies. She popped out 3 up >until 10:30, and then a stillborn boy. All in all she had 10 living >until Sunday night, when the 2 smallest died :( The remaining 8 are >healthy and happy, and mom is slowly getting used to them. > >All but a couple were breech, and we had to give her a shot about 2 >hours into it to force the remaining ones out. > >My wife is maintaining a page about the litter, and you can see the >lineage and championships for both parents: > >http://www.dakotamoonrottweilers.com/litters.html > >(Picture on the left is the sire (pretty obvious...). We sent Nala out >east to get knocked up). Nala is the picture on the right. The guy on >the left is the judge from whatever show that was, and the guy on the >right is our ring handler. Incidentally, Nala's grandfather, CH. >Chewbacca vom Mayhaus, "Chewbacca" was the mascot for the Hummer. > >No puppy pics on the page yet, but "real soon now". > >And sorry, but we have buyers lined up for all of the pups :) > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Tue Dec 23 12:22:16 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fiber [OT] In-Reply-To: <3FE87054.4070409@igi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Jason Jorgensen wrote: > We are pretty sure the fiber should support 1000base with no problems. > So I am looking for a drop in replacement for the 100base converter > units. Or some local consultant or company we could get out here to put > new ends on the fiber for a non-drop in replacement converter. > > Other suggestions and comments welcome. Well, I can't really see exactly how the connectors look, but if you have fiber running, shouldn't you be able to just use an optical gigabit ethernet card at either end? I would think that would be better than using a converter. Someone had one of those for sale on the list not too long ago. (and I believe I have exactly the same one, too) ------------- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at igi.com Tue Dec 23 12:24:53 2003 From: jasonj at igi.com (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fiber [OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FE88875.30806@igi.com> Hmm, this stuff was installed along time ago before my time here and I know very little about fiber. I dont know how many fibers are in each wire. Is there some marking on the wire I can look for that might tell me? Its orange :) hehe All I know is that there is 4 physical pieces running under the alley. Currently we are only using 2 of the wires, 1 pair. I think they work in pairs? One for send and one for receive?! Is this what you are calling multimode? I am told the other pair are backups. But if we could bond the two or use both, we should just use them since they are run and unused. Seems silly to just leave them sit there. I am trying to learn more about this stuff. If anyone has any links or other source of info that would be great. Thanks Eric! Eric Ebner wrote: >Here is an option that is just really an upgrade from what you are currently >using: >http://www.transition.com/products/mcon_platform/standalone/gigabit/index.ht >m > >You may want to see if you can push multimode over your fiber. If you need >more bandwidth a upgrade from single to multi sometimes is the ticket, >however can be expensive. > >How many fibers are in you wire? Two? Four? You may also want to look into >segmenting your network, taking the computers that talk to each other the >most at each building and placing them on a separate segment. > >Just some thoughts, let me know if you want more. > >Eric > > > 23/12/2003 10:41, "Jason Jorgensen" wrote: > > > >>We have fiber running between our 2 office buildings. On each end of the >>fiber we have one of these devices to convert to ethernet >>http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?ProductID=247614 >> >>Basically it looks like a fiber (BNC connections) to RJ-45 converter. >> >>We are pretty sure the fiber should support 1000base with no problems. >>So I am looking for a drop in replacement for the 100base converter >>units. Or some local consultant or company we could get out here to put >>new ends on the fiber for a non-drop in replacement converter. >> >>Other suggestions and comments welcome. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at igi.com Tue Dec 23 13:32:57 2003 From: jasonj at igi.com (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fiber [OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FE89869.8060303@igi.com> Switches on either side of the fiber. I dont really want to have a computer with a card as an end point. Regardless of Linux amazing uptime (my server is at 526 days :) ) I would still rather just have it as simple as possible. The connections are currently BNC on each end going to the FX to TX converter. Maybe you cant make that out in the picture I linked to. I dont even know what the connectors are for the new 1000base converters, but they dont look like BNC type connections to me. Justin Kremer wrote: >On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Jason Jorgensen wrote: > > > >>We are pretty sure the fiber should support 1000base with no problems. >>So I am looking for a drop in replacement for the 100base converter >>units. Or some local consultant or company we could get out here to put >>new ends on the fiber for a non-drop in replacement converter. >> >>Other suggestions and comments welcome. >> >> > >Well, I can't really see exactly how the connectors look, but if you have >fiber running, shouldn't you be able to just use an optical gigabit >ethernet card at either end? I would think that would be better >than using a converter. Someone had one of those for sale on the list >not too long ago. (and I believe I have exactly the same one, too) > >------------- >Justin Kremer > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ericebner at nsatel.net Tue Dec 23 15:05:50 2003 From: ericebner at nsatel.net (Eric Ebner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fiber [OT] In-Reply-To: <3FE88875.30806@igi.com> Message-ID: Sorry I didn't get back to you right away, My current full time job is caring for my 4 month old now that I am back from 15 months of active duty guards. I hope the below helps: > Hmm, this stuff was installed along time ago before my time here and I > know very little about fiber. Never fear fiber. Here is a short fiber primer: First of all I am going to assume only that you know that fiber transmits light and that is all, so please take no offense. Fiber works in much the same way as copper in data transmission, but how it is done is different and should be discussed in order to understand other aspects of it. Where copper uses the outside of the wire to transmit electrons by "handing" the electrons off from one copper atom to another, fiber allows the transmission of data by bouncing light off the inside of the glass fiber strand. The physics of this are not as important as the practical application of this knowledge. Fiber, like copper has a minimum bend radius that must NOT EVER be reached. Bending the fiber as well as rough handling causes micro fractures in the fiber and this degrades performance. From what you are saying, you want to increase your transmission rate on you network. This will require the fiber to carry many more flashes of light at a much faster rate. If you worked with Category 3 and Category 5 copper networking standards, you will recall that Cat 3 is only rated only to 16MHz or 10 Mbps where as Cat 5 is rated to 100MHz or 155Mbps or even faster. Both are made of copper, yet one transmits at a faster rate because it is constructed better. However, you can degrade Cat 5 to Cat 3 standards if you handle it roughly during install. Having it catch on something in its path and stretching, bending it back on its self, and even stepping on it can degrade it's transmission rates. Fiber is much more fragile and even with Kevlar wrappings and steel messenger lines inside the fiber package to improve strength, it still can be abused and made useless. The most important place to protect fiber is often the place where the least amount of protection occurs: Out of the bundle and into the switch/router/whatever. You can spend thousands of dollars on manufactured wire management (looks cool, works, but is usually overkill) or go to Menards and spend ten-fiddy on some fire rated conduit and manage/protect your exposed fiber. To figure the minimum bend radius of a fiber cable take the diameter of the cable bundle and multiply it by 10 for no load and by 20 when under load or pulling (i.e. Cable is 4.5 cm in dia. then 45 cm min bend radius +15 cm safety factor = 60 cm min bend) When I have installed fiber I have learned the hard way that you can be too forceful with it during install and termination. It requires a finesse as well as a knowledge of it's temperaments, err physical properties. > > I dont know how many fibers are in each wire. Is there some marking on > the wire I can look for that might tell me? Its orange :) hehe Yes, fiber is marked similarly to copper fiber. There should be OFxx where the OF is, yes you guessed it Optical Fiber and xx is the type of fiber such as NP for Nonconductive Plenum or CR for Conductive Riser to name a couple. There should be more numbers/letters after this that will tell you how many strands, the manufacture, distance in meters or feet, UL certification, and sometimes some other cryptic numbers (batch or production, etc). Email me the markings and I will try to make sense of them for you. > > All I know is that there is 4 physical pieces running under the alley. > Currently we are only using 2 of the wires, 1 pair. I think they work in > pairs? One for send and one for receive?! Is this what you are calling > multimode? O.K. It looks like you have 4 strand fiber running between your buildings. It is common practice to install extra fiber as the cost of installing far out ways the cost of fiber. In a basic fiber network you have two pairs. One send and one receive. In more complex fiber networks you will have primary and secondary pairs or failover pairs to create redundancy. The difference in single and multimode is cost, distance, and core size. Single mode is smaller in diameter (core size, not necessarily cable size), Is used for long distances, and is cheap. Multimode fiber has a larger core size to allow for several different frequencies of lasers to transmit at the same time. This allows for higher throughput and can be somewhat compared to multiplexing of voice communications. Multimode is great for intra-campus backbones and allows you to transmit several network segments (or greater bandwidth) over a single strand of fiber. > > I am told the other pair are backups. But if we could bond the two or > use both, we should just use them since they are run and unused. Seems > silly to just leave them sit there. If you use your backups you will network yourself into a corner as you will become dependant on fiber that is there to CYA. I would not do it. > > I am trying to learn more about this stuff. If anyone has any links or > other source of info that would be great. I learned all I know about fiber I learned from on the job training with my home town telecommunications company installing and terminating the "stuff" in commercial buildings. Here are some links that will help you, some of them I have used a few of them from time to time, others I just found and looked over and seemed O.K. http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/fiber_optic/topic02.html http://www.ampnetconnect.com/ http://www.insltd.com/productlist.asp?CatID=2&bUnCat=4 http://www.tiaonline.org/ http://cablingdb.com/Glossary_of_Terms.asp http://www.anixter.com/ That should get you going. I haven't worked with fiber in a long time but used to install and terminated the stuff till my eyes boggled out. I am looking for a job in networking/sys admin > Thanks Eric! > > > Eric Ebner wrote: > >> Here is an option that is just really an upgrade from what you are currently >> using: >> http://www.transition.com/products/mcon_platform/standalone/gigabit/index.ht >> m >> >> You may want to see if you can push multimode over your fiber. If you need >> more bandwidth a upgrade from single to multi sometimes is the ticket, >> however can be expensive. >> >> How many fibers are in you wire? Two? Four? You may also want to look into >> segmenting your network, taking the computers that talk to each other the >> most at each building and placing them on a separate segment. >> >> Just some thoughts, let me know if you want more. >> >> Eric >> >> >> 23/12/2003 10:41, "Jason Jorgensen" wrote: >> >> >> >>> We have fiber running between our 2 office buildings. On each end of the >>> fiber we have one of these devices to convert to ethernet >>> http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?ProductID=247614 >>> >>> Basically it looks like a fiber (BNC connections) to RJ-45 converter. >>> >>> We are pretty sure the fiber should support 1000base with no problems. >>> So I am looking for a drop in replacement for the 100base converter >>> units. Or some local consultant or company we could get out here to put >>> new ends on the fiber for a non-drop in replacement converter. >>> >>> Other suggestions and comments welcome. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Dec 23 16:12:38 2003 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fiber [OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1E76068A-3595-11D8-8B9B-000A95B35200@botwerks.org> On Dec 23, 2003, at 3:05 PM, Eric Ebner wrote: > Sorry I didn't get back to you right away, My current full time job is > caring for my 4 month old now that I am back from 15 months of active > duty > guards. I hope the below helps: > >> Hmm, this stuff was installed along time ago before my time here and I >> know very little about fiber. >> { snipped - misc. discussion } >> >> I dont know how many fibers are in each wire. Is there some marking on >> the wire I can look for that might tell me? Its orange :) hehe > > Yes, fiber is marked similarly to copper fiber. There should be OFxx > where > the OF is, yes you guessed it Optical Fiber and xx is the type of > fiber such > as NP for Nonconductive Plenum or CR for Conductive Riser to name a > couple. > There should be more numbers/letters after this that will tell you how > many > strands, the manufacture, distance in meters or feet, UL > certification, and > sometimes some other cryptic numbers (batch or production, etc). > > Email me the markings and I will try to make sense of them for you. > >> >> All I know is that there is 4 physical pieces running under the alley. >> Currently we are only using 2 of the wires, 1 pair. I think they work >> in >> pairs? One for send and one for receive?! Is this what you are calling >> multimode? > > O.K. It looks like you have 4 strand fiber running between your > buildings. > It is common practice to install extra fiber as the cost of installing > far > out ways the cost of fiber. In a basic fiber network you have two > pairs. > One send and one receive. In more complex fiber networks you will have > primary and secondary pairs or failover pairs to create redundancy. > The > difference in single and multimode is cost, distance, and core size. > Single > mode is smaller in diameter (core size, not necessarily cable size), > Is used > for long distances, and is cheap. Multimode fiber has a larger core > size to > allow for several different frequencies of lasers to transmit at the > same > time. This allows for higher throughput and can be somewhat compared > to > multiplexing of voice communications. Multimode is great for > intra-campus > backbones and allows you to transmit several network segments (or > greater > bandwidth) over a single strand of fiber. a minor nit, but MM fiber is actually larger in diameter to utilize lesser grade optics on the ends. quite often the drivers on MM gear are tuned LED/laser diodes as opposed to tuned lasers. the throughput on MM fiber is not greater than over SM fiber and in practice you're going to find that MM is used primarily in enterprise/lab applications while in the service provider domain you're going to run primarily SM with various flavors of optics on the ends. 99.9% of the time if the fiber is orange in color, it's multimode, i.e.: the cheap stuff. the interesting thing and what's going to cause you the most pain and/or frustration is the ends. it sounds like you have ST ends (these look like BNC bayonets), these have fallen out of fashion over the years in favor of the SC or SFP and in very high bandwidth applications (10G+) xenpack optics and such. setting that aside for the moment, you might try and find yourself a pair of ST (MM w/the appropriate gender) to 1000BT media converters for your project at hand. these will likely not be cheap but i haven't seen a GE interface that has ST ends, ever. maybe they have them on some older GE NICs or something but i can't recall an ST GE interface offhand. if you can't find an MM-ST-> 1000BT media converter you might see if you can get someone to reterm the ends. there are some fairly reasonably priced MM fiber termination kits out there and the self aligning assemblies and such make this process far less daunting than it used to be. alternatively you might try finding a an ST (female) ->SC patch and seeing if you can make that work happily with your switches. i would be careful about this given that your loss budget might be rather tight and i have no idea offhand what the losses incurred w/ST connectors to SC connectors would be. getting back to some of the comments that were made relative to SM vs. MM. SM (the yellow fiber) is not the cheap stuff, it's the better of the 2 and has much better loss budgets and is used primarily in service provider and/or long distance applications. MM does not provide the ability to run multiple lambda's (optical wavelengths) over the fiber and as stated previously is typically used with lower grade optics. SM in conjunction with wave division multiplexing (WDM) which comes in a few different flavors DWDM (dense wave division multiplexing), CWDM (coarse wave division multiplexing) enables the use of multiple wavelengths over a single fiber pair and is typically used in long-haul applications where fiber capacity is a precious resource or in applications where running new fiber is problematic and there's a desire to get more out of the SM that's already in the ground. >> I am told the other pair are backups. But if we could bond the two or >> use both, we should just use them since they are run and unused. Seems >> silly to just leave them sit there. > > If you use your backups you will network yourself into a corner as you > will > become dependant on fiber that is there to CYA. I would not do it. >> >> I am trying to learn more about this stuff. If anyone has any links or >> other source of info that would be great. if you google for optical networking primers and such you might find some good starting points. {snipped - misc. discussion} >>> Here is an option that is just really an upgrade from what you are >>> currently >>> using: >>> http://www.transition.com/products/mcon_platform/standalone/gigabit/ >>> index.ht >>> m >>> >>> You may want to see if you can push multimode over your fiber. If >>> you need >>> more bandwidth a upgrade from single to multi sometimes is the >>> ticket, >>> however can be expensive. >>> >>> How many fibers are in you wire? Two? Four? You may also want to >>> look into >>> segmenting your network, taking the computers that talk to each >>> other the >>> most at each building and placing them on a separate segment. >>> >>> Just some thoughts, let me know if you want more >>>> We have fiber running between our 2 office buildings. On each end >>>> of the >>>> fiber we have one of these devices to convert to ethernet >>>> http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?ProductID=247614 >>>> >>>> Basically it looks like a fiber (BNC connections) to RJ-45 >>>> converter. >>>> >>>> We are pretty sure the fiber should support 1000base with no >>>> problems. >>>> So I am looking for a drop in replacement for the 100base converter >>>> units. Or some local consultant or company we could get out here to >>>> put >>>> new ends on the fiber for a non-drop in replacement converter. >>>> >>>> Other suggestions and comments welcome. {snipped - misc .signatures} -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duns0014 at umn.edu Tue Dec 23 23:07:49 2003 From: duns0014 at umn.edu (Joe Dunsmore) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] my computer is really slow when not connected to a network Message-ID: <200312240507.hBO57nwZ021550@firefox.software.umn.edu> my linux machine at home is not connected to any network and thus, some applications open very slowly. I've heard of this happening, why does it do that and how can I fix it? thanks. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Wed Dec 24 05:51:00 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Simple Add Blocking [Off Topic] In-Reply-To: <3FE5BC5C.9090505@visi.com> References: <3FE5BC5C.9090505@visi.com> Message-ID: <1072266659.27383.1753.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Wed Dec 24 09:00:39 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] my computer is really slow when not connected to a network In-Reply-To: <200312240507.hBO57nwZ021550@firefox.software.umn.edu> References: <200312240507.hBO57nwZ021550@firefox.software.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Dec 23, 2003, at 11:07 PM, Joe Dunsmore wrote: > my linux machine at home is not connected to any network and thus, some > applications open very slowly. I've heard of this happening, why does > it > do that and how can I fix it? thanks. Can you give some examples? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From shelstad at brainerd.net Wed Dec 24 09:13:22 2003 From: shelstad at brainerd.net (Dan Shelstad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Step by step setup of Postfix on RHL73 Message-ID: <002801c3ca30$7902e660$2e03a8c0@dlsjz1l4vc992n> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Wed Dec 24 09:30:23 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Step by step setup of Postfix on RHL73 In-Reply-To: <002801c3ca30$7902e660$2e03a8c0@dlsjz1l4vc992n> References: <002801c3ca30$7902e660$2e03a8c0@dlsjz1l4vc992n> Message-ID: <17613805-3626-11D8-9312-000A95A50472@visi.com> On Dec 24, 2003, at 9:13 AM, Dan Shelstad wrote: > I have several websites running on this machine and would like to > configure e-mail for each one? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Which distribution are you using? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Wed Dec 24 10:43:41 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Step by step setup of Postfix on RHL73 In-Reply-To: <002801c3ca30$7902e660$2e03a8c0@dlsjz1l4vc992n> References: <002801c3ca30$7902e660$2e03a8c0@dlsjz1l4vc992n> Message-ID: <20031224164341.GA6195@therub.org> On Wed, Dec 24, 2003 at 09:13:22AM -0600, Dan Shelstad wrote: > > Hello, > > I am looking for a beginners basic set up of Postfix. > > I have downloaded Postfix-2.0.16 and uncompressed the files into > tmp\postfix\Postfix-2.0.16. > > When trying to do ./INSTALL I get permission denied. > > I have several websites running on this machine and would like to > configure e-mail for each one... Any help would be greatly > appreciated! > Thanks! > Dan Hi Dan, First of all, why not use an RPM? As far as your problem goes, it sounds like you're not logged in as root. Be sure to read the INSTALL and README files which are located in the Postfix-2.0.16 directory too. They should give step by step instructions. If that fails, try postfix.org-> http://www.postfix.org/docs.html They have a lot of RH specific FAQs, install documents, tutorials, etc. Happy Installing, Dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Wed Dec 24 09:45:55 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Step by step setup of Postfix on RHL73 In-Reply-To: <17613805-3626-11D8-9312-000A95A50472@visi.com> References: <002801c3ca30$7902e660$2e03a8c0@dlsjz1l4vc992n> <17613805-3626-11D8-9312-000A95A50472@visi.com> Message-ID: <42B0C0BD-3628-11D8-9312-000A95A50472@visi.com> On Dec 24, 2003, at 9:30 AM, Tim Wilson wrote: > On Dec 24, 2003, at 9:13 AM, Dan Shelstad wrote: > >> I have several websites running on this machine and would like to >> configure e-mail for each one? Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > Which distribution are you using? Doh! Perhaps I should read the subject line! Why aren't you using an RPM? Is the latest version of Postfix available as a binary package for RH7.3? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Wed Dec 24 10:52:04 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Step by step setup of Postfix on RHL73 In-Reply-To: <002801c3ca30$7902e660$2e03a8c0@dlsjz1l4vc992n> References: <002801c3ca30$7902e660$2e03a8c0@dlsjz1l4vc992n> Message-ID: <20031224165203.GA6998@therub.org> On Wed, Dec 24, 2003 at 09:13:22AM -0600, Dan Shelstad wrote: ... > When trying to do ./INSTALL I get permission denied. Wait a minute, I didn't read that close enough. The INSTALL file is a text file that you are supposed to read, not execute! try "less INSTALL" (no quotes). You should read it, and do what it says ;) dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Dec 24 10:59:01 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Review) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Review Message-ID: <200312241659.hBOGx1K19447@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Review Category: Hardware Subject: iRiver iFP-390T I just opened my new Christmas present, an iRiver iFP-390T 256Meg MP3 player. This thing rocks. Very light and small, and the sound it awesome. Just when I thought it couldn't get any better, I checked the iRiver website and find out that they just today released the updated firmware to support Ogg! Thanks Santa! The only problem is they haven't released their UMS version for Ogg, so I'm still stuck with the Windows Manager software to load files. I can always run it under VMware I guess. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/reviews/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Tue Dec 23 08:44:17 2003 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? Message-ID: <001601c3c963$3e672c00$1e02a8c0@zippy> I am forwarding this message because I see the problems outlined in these links as a clear and present danger to the continued existence of Linux. Mark Browne ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin Franklin's dire warnings are soon going to be tested under the guise of "virus free" secure computing and "SPAM free" secure internet access. Unfortunately, these initiatives will converge into Big Brother a la George Orwell's 1984, which was just twenty years ahead of its time. Here is an interesting articles on the dangers of secure computing and secure networking: "The Digital Imprimateur -- How big brother and big media can put the Internet genie back in the bottle", by John Walker (the founder of AutoDesk and creator of AutoCAD): http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/ Here is another interesting article on related subject matter: "I Told You So -- Alas, a Couple of Bob's Dire Predictions Have Come True", by Robert X. Cringely (author, and host of several PBS specials): http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020627.html Beware of the Secure Computing Initiative... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Wed Dec 24 11:39:06 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? In-Reply-To: <001601c3c963$3e672c00$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mark Browne > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 8:44 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? > Franklin's dire warnings are soon going to be tested under These quotes of Franklin are favorites of mine, but I hardly think they are dire warnings, and they have been tested before in this country. > converge into Big Brother a la George Orwell's 1984, which > was just twenty years ahead of its time. Now, perhaps I'm picking nits, but Orwell's 1984 was published in 1949, so 54 years ahead of it's time, by the original email author's logic. To be a little more on topic, I guess I don't totally see how secure computing will endanger Linux. At the very least, I see SCO's FUD doing much greater harm in the long run than an extra chip on a motherboard. Perhaps I don't know enough though... /me goes to read up on secure computing _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at igi.com Wed Dec 24 12:19:59 2003 From: jasonj at igi.com (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] my computer is really slow when not connected to a network In-Reply-To: <200312240507.hBO57nwZ021550@firefox.software.umn.edu> References: <200312240507.hBO57nwZ021550@firefox.software.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3FE9D8CF.6010407@igi.com> The only times I have heard of this happening had to do with DNS resolution. Some programs were trying to lookup addresses and took a while to timeout. One box kept trying to find out what his own name resolved to. We put it in hosts for him and then he was happier. There could be many causes for the problem. This is just one I happen to remember. You will need to be more specific describing the problem. What programs, what kind of speed differences are you talking about, have you plugged the machine into a network and seen the applications respond much faster? Joe Dunsmore wrote: > >my linux machine at home is not connected to any network and thus, some >applications open very slowly. I've heard of this happening, why does it >do that and how can I fix it? thanks. > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at igi.com Wed Dec 24 12:23:04 2003 From: jasonj at igi.com (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fiber [OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FE9D988.6030707@igi.com> Thanks justin, eric, and steve. Very useful information for me. I think I found what I need as well. ST and BNC connectors are almost identical, but with fiber they are called ST. So I need to get ST (standard) to SC (square connector) patch cables and then any multimode fiber to copper 1000base converter. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at askewview.net Wed Dec 24 12:34:20 2003 From: adam at askewview.net (Adam) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] my computer is really slow when not connected to a network In-Reply-To: <3FE9D8CF.6010407@igi.com> References: <200312240507.hBO57nwZ021550@firefox.software.umn.edu> <3FE9D8CF.6010407@igi.com> Message-ID: <3FE9DC2C.2060406@askewview.net> Well taking what Jason said into mind as far as DNS. I would make sure that in your /etc/hosts file you have entries for your computers hostname. Jason Jorgensen wrote: > The only times I have heard of this happening had to do with DNS > resolution. Some programs were trying to lookup addresses and took a > while to timeout. One box kept trying to find out what his own name > resolved to. We put it in hosts for him and then he was happier. > > There could be many causes for the problem. This is just one I happen > to remember. > > You will need to be more specific describing the problem. What > programs, what kind of speed differences are you talking about, have > you plugged the machine into a network and seen the applications > respond much faster? > > > Joe Dunsmore wrote: > >> >> my linux machine at home is not connected to any network and thus, some >> applications open very slowly. I've heard of this happening, why >> does it >> do that and how can I fix it? thanks. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Tue Dec 23 16:53:06 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? In-Reply-To: <001601c3c963$3e672c00$1e02a8c0@zippy> References: <001601c3c963$3e672c00$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: <3FE8C752.6040308@visi.com> Given Microsoft's past history I'm much more concerned about the possibility that they'll screw it up and lock 80% of the planet out of their computers :-) Seriously, when I look at the half-baked security measures that we take as a society I can't see people getting real interested in secure computing. Does the current social security number scheme make sense to anyone? Yet we readily accept the possibility of identity theft and adverse privacy issues rather than having a system of strong personal authentication/identification. Credit card companies explicitly accept, and we consumer implicitly accept, a level of credit card fraud rather than add tighter security that might make credit card transactions less convenient for us and less profitable for them. As soon as Microsoft explains that it will cost us $9.95/month per CPU for them to effectively administer our home systems I suspect most people will balk and the whole thing will go away. --rick Mark Browne wrote: >I am forwarding this message because I see the problems outlined in these >links as a clear and present danger to the continued existence of Linux. > >Mark Browne > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----------------- >"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve >neither liberty or security." > - Benjamin Franklin > >"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security >will deserve neither and lose both." > - Benjamin Franklin > >Franklin's dire warnings are soon going to be tested under the guise of >"virus free" secure computing and "SPAM free" secure internet access. >Unfortunately, these initiatives will converge into Big Brother a la George >Orwell's 1984, which was just twenty years ahead of its time. > >Here is an interesting articles on the dangers of secure computing and >secure networking: > "The Digital Imprimateur -- How big brother and big media can put the >Internet genie back in the bottle", by John Walker (the founder of AutoDesk >and creator of AutoCAD): > http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/ > >Here is another interesting article on related subject matter: > "I Told You So -- Alas, a Couple of Bob's Dire Predictions Have Come >True", by Robert X. Cringely (author, and host of several PBS specials): > http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020627.html > >Beware of the Secure Computing Initiative... > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris at alpha.twp-llc.com Wed Dec 24 11:56:05 2003 From: chris at alpha.twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Local Reasonable DVD+RW Media Suggestions Message-ID: I'm looking for a local source of brand-name DVD+RW bulk media (no jewel cases, 25 or 50 pieces) at a reasonable price. I'm not going to buy a dual-media recorder because my "+ only" drive works just fine thanks, and + media appears to have some technical advantages too (like the DVD+RW discs erase in about 4 seconds). Can anyone local come close to prices at eCost or Amazon? Local shops do have acceptable prices on write-once media, but seem to be very high on RWs. Here are some quick checks of web sites to get started: BestBuy.com TDK 25pk for $85 CircuitCity.com NO bulk DVD+RW OfficeDepot.com Imation 25pk $99 OfficeMax.com NO bulk DVD+RW MicroCenter.com Imation 25pk $86, Memorex 25pk $80, TDK 25pk $75 eCost.com Imation 25pk $92, TDK 25pk $72, Verbatim 50pk $444 Amazon.com Memorex 25pk $39, TDK 25pk $78 OK, so apparently it's only Amazon (which I regard as evil) when it sells Memorex (which I regard as 2nd tier) that's a good deal. Tran Micro and General Nanosystems do not list media on their web sites. Still, any suggestions for local stores are greatly appreciated. -- Chris Schumann, Partner Third Wave Partnership, LLC Office 612-920-4364 722 W 66 St, PMB 302 Fax 612-677-3003 Minneapolis, MN 55423 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Wed Dec 24 17:17:18 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? In-Reply-To: <3FE8C752.6040308@visi.com> References: <001601c3c963$3e672c00$1e02a8c0@zippy> <3FE8C752.6040308@visi.com> Message-ID: <1072307837.27383.1772.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From thurianknight at earthlink.net Wed Dec 24 17:43:37 2003 From: thurianknight at earthlink.net (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] my computer is really slow when not connected to a network In-Reply-To: <3FE9DC2C.2060406@askewview.net> References: <200312240507.hBO57nwZ021550@firefox.software.umn.edu> <3FE9D8CF.6010407@igi.com> <3FE9DC2C.2060406@askewview.net> Message-ID: <3FEA24A9.7070409@earthlink.net> Adam wrote: > Well taking what Jason said into mind as far as DNS. I would make sure > that in your /etc/hosts file you have entries for your computers hostname. Specifically, have a line in there that looks something like this: 127.0.0.1 $hostname.domain.tld $hostname Replace $hostname with your computer's name, and domain.tld with your domain if you have one. If not, then you can simply use... 127.0.0.1 $hostname -- Dave Sherman - MCSE, MCSA, CCNA Cats instinctively know the exact moment when their owners will wake up. Then, they wake us 10 minutes earlier. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at askewview.net Wed Dec 24 18:17:16 2003 From: adam at askewview.net (Adam) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] my computer is really slow when not connected to a network In-Reply-To: <3FEA24A9.7070409@earthlink.net> References: <200312240507.hBO57nwZ021550@firefox.software.umn.edu> <3FE9D8CF.6010407@igi.com> <3FE9DC2C.2060406@askewview.net> <3FEA24A9.7070409@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3FEA2C8C.8040400@askewview.net> Also dont forget to have localhost and localhost.localdomain listed there. Dave Sherman wrote: > Adam wrote: > > Well taking what Jason said into mind as far as DNS. I would make sure > > that in your /etc/hosts file you have entries for your computers > hostname. > > Specifically, have a line in there that looks something like this: > > 127.0.0.1 $hostname.domain.tld $hostname > > Replace $hostname with your computer's name, and domain.tld with your > domain if you have one. If not, then you can simply use... > > 127.0.0.1 $hostname > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Dec 24 18:29:35 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Local Reasonable DVD+RW Media Suggestions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031225002935.GI6711@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Dec 24, 2003 at 11:56:05AM -0600, Chris Schumann wrote: > I'm looking for a local source of brand-name DVD+RW bulk media (no jewel > cases, 25 or 50 pieces) at a reasonable price. I'm not going to buy a > dual-media recorder because my "+ only" drive works just fine thanks, and > + media appears to have some technical advantages too (like the DVD+RW > discs erase in about 4 seconds). DVD+* sucks unless you're only using it on your own system, if this is the case, good for you. > > Can anyone local come close to prices at eCost or Amazon? > No, and they won't anytime soon. > Local shops do have acceptable prices on write-once media, but seem to be > very high on RWs. Of course, nobody uses RW's > Here are some quick checks of web sites to get started: > > BestBuy.com TDK 25pk for $85 Overpriced. > OfficeDepot.com Imation 25pk $99 Insanely Overpriced > MicroCenter.com Imation 25pk $86, Memorex 25pk $80, TDK 25pk $75 If they weren't overpriced I'd go into shock > > eCost.com Imation 25pk $92, TDK 25pk $72, Verbatim 50pk $444 Overpriced. > Amazon.com Memorex 25pk $39, TDK 25pk $78 Barely overpriced and overpriced. Try here: 2.4x 25pk ritek $35 http://store.yahoo.com/supermediastore/ritek-dvdrw.html 25pk: optodisc $32.25, leda $34.75, ritek $39.75 http://www.shop4tech.com/z/DVD+RW_4.7GB/1_88_99/ 25pk: memorex $30.67 http://www.thenerds.net/productpage.asp?un=184853&s=1 etc. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Wed Dec 24 20:00:17 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What PCI wireless card works for you? Message-ID: <20031225020017.GG755@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Wed Dec 24 23:04:44 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? In-Reply-To: <3FE8C752.6040308@visi.com> Message-ID: Linux will never end. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 25 00:04:12 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] WOW! Message-ID: <3FEA7DDC.8040305@visi.com> I saw Mrs. Santa.... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Thu Dec 25 00:16:14 2003 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best webmail? In-Reply-To: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org> References: <1072111033.1929.10.camel@chays.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <16362.32942.875093.469397@workstation.mn.mtu.net> http://www.e-mol.com Advantages: Supports secure login Supports any POP3, APOP, IMAP server Has the ability to do spam filtering (premium service) virus scanner Disadvantages: Can't read AOL, Yahoo, Hotmail >>>>> "CH" == Chuck Hays writes: CH> Does anyone here have any recommendations as to the best web mail CH> package? Advantages? Disadvantages? CH> Thanks, CH> -Chuck Hays CH> _______________________________________________ CH> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota CH> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org CH> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Dec 25 05:02:41 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312251102.hBPB2fE30351@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Unlimited Hosting Unlimited space / transfers / cPanel / webmail / ftp / parked domains / addon domains / easily installable scripts, blogs, message boards, chats and shopping carts / mysql and pgsql / php / full stats and logs. $20 a month or $17 a month when you pay for a full year (Save $36! Special TCLUG Pricing. Normal yearly discount is $220/yr, and that's for our Deluxe package which is not unlimited. How's that for a special offer?). Paypal payments and subscriptions. E-mail for a promo pricing. http://geekshosting.us http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Thu Dec 25 09:07:40 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What PCI wireless card works for you? In-Reply-To: <20031225020017.GG755@iucha.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, Florin Iucha wrote: > Now the question: what PCI wireless card do you use and recommend? they are becoming rare nowadays but for 11b you will want to use anything with the prism2 chipset the hostap drivers were designed to make use of the access point feature in these chipsets and they work like magic! if you cannot find PCI cards then any PCMCIA card will do if you use the PLX adaptor (uses the plx9502 chip) and then you can kjust use the _plx module, almost all drivers have them -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Dec 25 09:15:18 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Danger Message-ID: <3FEAFF06.3090806@visi.com> Got a 52x24x52 CD RW for xmas! I'll have to turn the front of the PC away from me now :-) Mmmmm ISO's. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net Thu Dec 25 10:40:09 2003 From: Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net (Scott J Julian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Danger References: <3FEAFF06.3090806@visi.com> Message-ID: <000b01c3cb05$c2e26dc0$6401a8c0@xp2100> yea sam, got a 52x burner here a month or so back, spins up louder than a huey, lol. Didnt someone have an exploding cdrom recently, lol ----- Original Message ----- From: "Samuel MacDonald" To: "TC LUG" Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 9:15 AM Subject: [TCLUG] Danger > Got a 52x24x52 CD RW for xmas! > I'll have to turn the front of the PC away from me now :-) > > Mmmmm ISO's. > > Sam. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Andrew at AZimmer.com Thu Dec 25 10:54:06 2003 From: Andrew at AZimmer.com (Andrew J Zimmer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What PCI wireless card works for you? Message-ID: <5332020AE31E3143BC3CD6F4408C35B38FFE@cilantro.AZimmer.local> Stay away from 802.11g for now. I have a Hawking PCI 802.11b, I cannot find the model, and a Belkin F5D6001 ver. 2101 that both work with the ADMtek drivers. Here is a really good list to check. http://seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/HardwareComparison Andrew -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Florin Iucha Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 8:16 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] What PCI wireless card works for you? Happy Hollidays! I want to build my own wireless router/wireless access point [1]. I will use a compaq small form factor PC as it is very compact and quiet (it has a single fan!). It has two PCI slots: one of them will hold a SUN quad fast ethernet NIC and the other will have a wireless PCI card. Now the question: what PCI wireless card do you use and recommend? Looking at http://www.linux-wlan.org/docs/wlan_adapters.html and doing a grep on PCI and Linux|wlan, then subsequently corroborating that with pricewatch I narrowed the list down to two: Netgear MA311 and Linksys WMP11. I've googled [2] for those and found that they work. Does anybody else have any other suggestion? Thank you, florin [1] I am fed up with the limited web interface and clunky telnet interface on my router. b) I want to use it as a quiet mail|web|dns server. [2] Yes, I know its a nonword. -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Dec 25 10:57:03 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Danger In-Reply-To: <3FEAFF06.3090806@visi.com> References: <3FEAFF06.3090806@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031225105642.W6911@unix18.sihope.com> A gift for your enemies... :) Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications On Thu, 25 Dec 2003, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > Got a 52x24x52 CD RW for xmas! > I'll have to turn the front of the PC away from me now :-) > > Mmmmm ISO's. > > Sam. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From shelstad at brainerd.net Thu Dec 25 15:18:38 2003 From: shelstad at brainerd.net (Dan Shelstad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Step by step setup of Postfix on RHL73 In-Reply-To: <42B0C0BD-3628-11D8-9312-000A95A50472@visi.com> Message-ID: <004601c3cb2c$aa659750$2e03a8c0@dlsjz1l4vc992n> Hi Tim How can I find out if there is an RPM available for 7.3? Dan -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Tim Wilson Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 9:46 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Step by step setup of Postfix on RHL73 On Dec 24, 2003, at 9:30 AM, Tim Wilson wrote: > On Dec 24, 2003, at 9:13 AM, Dan Shelstad wrote: > >> I have several websites running on this machine and would like to >> configure e-mail for each one. Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > Which distribution are you using? Doh! Perhaps I should read the subject line! Why aren't you using an RPM? Is the latest version of Postfix available as a binary package for RH7.3? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From djb at tc.umn.edu Sun Dec 14 23:46:49 2003 From: djb at tc.umn.edu (Dave Bianchi) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] TCSA meeting December 18 Message-ID: The Twin Cities System Administrators (TCSA) group meets monthly to discuss topics of interest to system and network administrators in the Twin Cities area of Minnesota. The meetings are free and open to the public. Check out our web site at http://www.tcsa.org/ TCSA meetings are on the third Thursday of each month at 7:00 pm. ----- Next Meeting: Topic: Understanding and Using iSCSI Solutions Speaker: Eric Ulmer, Arrow Electronics Date/Time: December 18, 2003 7:00 pm Location: France Place Synopsis: Eric Ulmer from Arrow Electronics will present a brief presentation on iSCSI technologies. We'll then have a hands-on laboratory opportunity to configure and test storage products using iSCSI. Some systems will be provided by Arrow, but if you have a laptop that you can bring, please feel welcome to do so. NOTE: We will meet at Arrow Electronics in Chanhassen. About the Speaker: Eric Ulmer is a Systems Engineer for Arrow Electronics, where he has been working with iSCSI solutions from vendors such as Network Appliance, Adaptec, Intel and McData. Previously, Eric worked for Network Appliance as a Systems Engineer, Ulysses Telemedia Solutions as an Electronic Commerce Systems Architect, Anderson Consulting as a LAN/WAN systems consultant, and as a Unix Administrator for United Defense. We will meet at Arrow Electronics in Chanhassen. Tentative Meeting Schedule January 15, 2004 February 19, 2004 Directions: Arrow Electronics is at 18750 Lake Drive East in Chanhassen. Arrow Electronics 18750 Lake Drive East Chanhassen, MN 55317 Take Highway 5 west from Eden Prairie, turn south (left) at Dell Road, west (right) on Lake Drive, right at the newspaper stands (third driveway on Lake Drive East from Dell Road). - Parking Free parking is available. For more information on TCSA, check out our web site: http://www.tcsa.org/ To subscribe to the TCSA or TCSA-JOBS mailing lists, follow the TCSA or TCSA-JOBS link from: http://list.onvoy.com/ For any other information, please send email to: djb@tc.umn.edu or contact: Dave Bianchi 651-260-1770 -- Dave Bianchi djb@tc.umn.edu 651-260-1770 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Dec 22 11:14:52 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] SCALUG Installfest Jan 24, 2004 Message-ID: <3787.156.99.116.45.1072113292.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> SCALUG's biggest, best, and only installfest is scheduled for Jan 24, 2004 in Waite Park Minnesota. Festivities will commence at 12:00 noon, with the intent of running into the evening. Even if you can only make it for a few hours, you should be able to satisfy your installfest addiction. For directions, contact info, etc visit the SCALUG website at http://scalug.mn-linux.org. Brian Wall SCALUG meeting-coordinator-thingy _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Dec 25 19:36:20 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What PCI wireless card works for you? In-Reply-To: References: <20031225020017.GG755@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20031225193620.171d2643@langly.trutwins.homeip.net> On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:07:40 -0600 (CST) Munir Nassar wrote: > On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > Now the question: what PCI wireless card do you use and recommend? Netgear MA401 works like a champ on my old laptop. No config required with Slack 9.1. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duns0014 at umn.edu Thu Dec 25 23:25:00 2003 From: duns0014 at umn.edu (Joe Dunsmore) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: my computer is really slow when not connected to a network Message-ID: <200312260525.hBQ5P0CH021880@challenge.software.umn.edu> > The only times I have heard of this happening had to do with DNS > resolution. Some programs were trying to lookup addresses and took a > while to timeout. One box kept trying to find out what his own name > resolved to. We put it in hosts for him and then he was happier. > > There could be many causes for the problem. This is just one I happen to > remember. > > You will need to be more specific describing the problem. What programs, > what kind of speed differences are you talking about, have you plugged > the machine into a network and seen the applications respond much faster? It's kind of odd. When I was on a network before and I double clicked on a pdf file, gnome ghostview would start right up with the file loaded. Then when I first tried it off a network, it would take a few minutes for the ggv just to load up. Now when I double click on a pdf or start the ggv, it opens up (after a long while) but won't display the pdf. When I go to "open" and click the file, it hangs and I have to kill it. but now I'm using kpdf and it works fine. so maybe it was just a problem with the ggv, but I still wonder what's wrong with it. unfortunately, I won't be able to hook up to a network anytime soon to try that out. > Adam wrote: > > Well taking what Jason said into mind as far as DNS. I would make sure > > that in your /etc/hosts file you have entries for your computers > hostname. > > Specifically, have a line in there that looks something like this: > > 127.0.0.1 $hostname.domain.tld $hostname > > Replace $hostname with your computer's name, and domain.tld with your > domain if you have one. If not, then you can simply use... > > 127.0.0.1 $hostname thanks, that was already in there. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Dec 26 08:33:45 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Danger In-Reply-To: <000b01c3cb05$c2e26dc0$6401a8c0@xp2100> References: <3FEAFF06.3090806@visi.com> <000b01c3cb05$c2e26dc0$6401a8c0@xp2100> Message-ID: <3FEC46C9.9050008@visi.com> The software that came with it "Nero 6" can set the speed of the CDRW. I kept my 24x Teac CDROM as the master drive of the 2 drives. I should be able to go CD to CDR. I got this thing at Best Buy it was $60 with $40 in rebates. It's made by Digital Research Technology, I Couldn't resist the final $20 price. Sam. Scott J Julian wrote: >yea sam, got a 52x burner here a month or so back, spins up louder than a >huey, lol. Didnt someone have an exploding cdrom recently, lol >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Samuel MacDonald" >To: "TC LUG" >Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 9:15 AM >Subject: [TCLUG] Danger > > > > >>Got a 52x24x52 CD RW for xmas! >>I'll have to turn the front of the PC away from me now :-) >> >>Mmmmm ISO's. >> >>Sam. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Dec 26 09:07:52 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: ezmlm warning In-Reply-To: <1072407813.52095.ezmlm-warn@tcphp.org> References: <1072407813.52095.ezmlm-warn@tcphp.org> Message-ID: <3FEC4EC8.1070503@visi.com> Um.... I don't know why but I got this, I haven't seen any problems. Sam. talk-help@tcphp.org wrote: >Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the >talk@tcphp.org mailing list. > >I'm working for my owner, who can be reached >at talk-owner@tcphp.org. > > >Messages to you from the talk mailing list seem to >have been bouncing. I've attached a copy of the first bounce >message I received. > >If this message bounces too, I will send you a probe. If the probe bounces, >I will remove your address from the talk mailing list, >without further notice. > > >I've kept a list of which messages from the talk mailing list have >bounced from your address. > >Copies of these messages may be in the archive. >To retrieve a set of messages 123-145 (a maximum of 100 per request), >send an empty message to: > > >To receive a subject and author list for the last 100 or so messages, >send an empty message to: > > >Here are the message numbers: > > 7704 > >--- Enclosed is a copy of the bounce message I received. > >Return-Path: <> >Received: (qmail 73717 invoked for bounce); 14 Dec 2003 10:21:30 -0000 >Date: 14 Dec 2003 10:21:30 -0000 >From: MAILER-DAEMON@max.pajunas.net >To: talk-return-7704-@tcphp.org >Subject: failure notice > >Hi. This is the qmail-send program at max.pajunas.net. >I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. >This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. > >: >12.158.35.251 failed after I sent the message. >Remote host said: 571 Message Refused > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Dec 26 09:22:53 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312261522.hBQFMrl12835@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: PCs For Sale I have 2 Compaq DeskPro EN's for sale. NO HARD DISK drives. PII400 192MB RAM 3D Video 10 100 NIC CD and FD. AND THE SCREWS TO MOUNT THE HD 20 each http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Fri Dec 26 12:10:41 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: ezmlm warning In-Reply-To: <3FEC4EC8.1070503@visi.com> (Samuel MacDonald's message of "Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:07:52 -0600") References: <1072407813.52095.ezmlm-warn@tcphp.org> <3FEC4EC8.1070503@visi.com> Message-ID: Samuel MacDonald writes: > Um.... > > I don't know why but I got this, I haven't seen any problems. That relates to another list, not this list. You *are* signed up for the talk@tcphp.org list, right? Did you read the full message? It says it got a bounce on one specific list message sent to you, and it gives a full copy of the bounce message, which says that visi refused the message. Have you fetched message 7704 from that mailing list's archives? Did you in fact already receive that message? I guess I'm confused by your confusion; all the details of exactly what happened are laid out very explicitly in the message. > Sam. > > talk-help@tcphp.org wrote: > >>Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the >>talk@tcphp.org mailing list. >> >>I'm working for my owner, who can be reached >>at talk-owner@tcphp.org. >> >> >>Messages to you from the talk mailing list seem to >>have been bouncing. I've attached a copy of the first bounce >>message I received. >> >>If this message bounces too, I will send you a probe. If the probe bounces, >>I will remove your address from the talk mailing list, >>without further notice. >> >> >> I've kept a list of which messages from the talk mailing list have >> bounced from your address. >> >>Copies of these messages may be in the archive. >>To retrieve a set of messages 123-145 (a maximum of 100 per request), >>send an empty message to: >> >> >>To receive a subject and author list for the last 100 or so messages, >>send an empty message to: >> >> >>Here are the message numbers: >> >> 7704 >> >>--- Enclosed is a copy of the bounce message I received. >> >>Return-Path: <> >>Received: (qmail 73717 invoked for bounce); 14 Dec 2003 10:21:30 -0000 >>Date: 14 Dec 2003 10:21:30 -0000 >>From: MAILER-DAEMON@max.pajunas.net >>To: talk-return-7704-@tcphp.org >>Subject: failure notice >> >>Hi. This is the qmail-send program at max.pajunas.net. >>I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. >>This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. >> >>: >>12.158.35.251 failed after I sent the message. >>Remote host said: 571 Message Refused >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Fri Dec 26 14:41:27 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <200312261522.hBQFMrl12835@crusader.real-time.com> References: <200312261522.hBQFMrl12835@crusader.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031226204127.GJ755@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Fri Dec 26 17:13:51 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: If it is the small form factor unit, I would like one too... --- Troy Johnson - troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us Programmer / System Administrator Minnesota Cancer Surveillance System - MDH >>> florin@iucha.net 12/26/03 2:41 PM >>> On Fri, Dec 26, 2003 at 09:22:53AM -0600, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > New TCLUG Classified Ad > > Category: Computer > > Type of Ad: For Sale > > Subject: PCs For Sale > > I have 2 Compaq DeskPro EN's for sale. > NO HARD DISK drives. > PII400 192MB RAM 3D Video 10 100 NIC CD and FD. > AND THE SCREWS TO MOUNT THE HD > > 20 each > > http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi It's not there! Is this the small form factor? Does is look like this: http://images.cdnsystems.com/ebay-images/Compaq-Deskpro-SFF-PIII-550-Front.jpg ? I'll take one, then. florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Dec 26 17:45:54 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad (+++ ON TOPIC) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FECC832.4080505@visi.com> These are not small, they are full ATX desktop cases, DeskPro EN series. The machines are really fast, I setup 2 with W98 for my kids, they went form P233's to PII400's. They have ATI 3D cards in them, the kids are really happy. I'm going to put RH 8 on one tonight, I'll let the list know how it turns out. Sam. Troy.A Johnson wrote: >If it is the small form factor unit, I would like one too... > >--- >Troy Johnson - troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us >Programmer / System Administrator >Minnesota Cancer Surveillance System - MDH > > >>>>florin@iucha.net 12/26/03 2:41 PM >>> >>>> >>>> >On Fri, Dec 26, 2003 at 09:22:53AM -0600, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > > >>New TCLUG Classified Ad >> >>Category: Computer >> >>Type of Ad: For Sale >> >>Subject: PCs For Sale >> >>I have 2 Compaq DeskPro EN's for sale. >>NO HARD DISK drives. >>PII400 192MB RAM 3D Video 10 100 NIC CD and FD. >>AND THE SCREWS TO MOUNT THE HD >> >>20 each >> >>http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi >> >> > >It's not there! Is this the small form factor? > >Does is look like this: > >http://images.cdnsystems.com/ebay-images/Compaq-Deskpro-SFF-PIII-550-Front.jpg >? > >I'll take one, then. > >florin > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Fri Dec 26 21:34:49 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad (+++ ON TOPIC) In-Reply-To: <3FECC832.4080505@visi.com> References: <3FECC832.4080505@visi.com> Message-ID: <1214.192.1.1.23.1072496090.squirrel@dccmn.com> It's a full tower. Got a secondary back plane for the PCI/ISA slots, so it ain't exactly an ATX. I'm using one as my Linux Gateway/Webserver/Fileserver, etc. Works fine with RH 7.1, 8, & 9. I'm about to install RHEL3 on it, no cat calls, please. Samuel MacDonald said: > These are not small, they are full ATX desktop cases, DeskPro EN series. > > The machines are really fast, I setup 2 with W98 for my kids, they went > form P233's to PII400's. > They have ATI 3D cards in them, the kids are really happy. > > I'm going to put RH 8 on one tonight, I'll let the list know how it > turns out. > > Sam. > > Troy.A Johnson wrote: > >>If it is the small form factor unit, I would like one too... >> >>--- >>Troy Johnson - troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us >>Programmer / System Administrator >>Minnesota Cancer Surveillance System - MDH >> >> >>>>>florin@iucha.net 12/26/03 2:41 PM >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>On Fri, Dec 26, 2003 at 09:22:53AM -0600, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: >> >> >>>New TCLUG Classified Ad >>> >>>Category: Computer >>> >>>Type of Ad: For Sale >>> >>>Subject: PCs For Sale >>> >>>I have 2 Compaq DeskPro EN's for sale. >>>NO HARD DISK drives. >>>PII400 192MB RAM 3D Video 10 100 NIC CD and FD. >>>AND THE SCREWS TO MOUNT THE HD >>> >>>20 each >>> >>>http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi >>> >>> >> >>It's not there! Is this the small form factor? >> >>Does is look like this: >> >>http://images.cdnsystems.com/ebay-images/Compaq-Deskpro-SFF-PIII-550-Front.jpg >> ? >> >>I'll take one, then. >> >>florin >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Fri Dec 26 21:35:51 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Step by step setup of Postfix on RHL73 In-Reply-To: <004601c3cb2c$aa659750$2e03a8c0@dlsjz1l4vc992n> References: <004601c3cb2c$aa659750$2e03a8c0@dlsjz1l4vc992n> Message-ID: On Dec 25, 2003, at 3:18 PM, Dan Shelstad wrote: > How can I find out if there is an RPM available for 7.3? Try http://rpmfind.net/ -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Fri Dec 26 21:43:17 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Danger In-Reply-To: <3FEC46C9.9050008@visi.com> References: <3FEAFF06.3090806@visi.com> <000b01c3cb05$c2e26dc0$6401a8c0@xp2100> <3FEC46C9.9050008@visi.com> Message-ID: <1252.192.1.1.23.1072496597.squirrel@dccmn.com> All the DR CD drives I've had died after about 3 months. Not sure it's worth the $20. Samuel MacDonald said: > The software that came with it "Nero 6" can set the speed of the CDRW. I > kept my 24x Teac CDROM as the master drive of the 2 drives. I should > be able to go CD to CDR. I got this thing at Best Buy it was $60 with > $40 in rebates. It's made by Digital Research Technology, I Couldn't > resist the final $20 price. > > Sam. > > Scott J Julian wrote: > >>yea sam, got a 52x burner here a month or so back, spins up louder than >> a huey, lol. Didnt someone have an exploding cdrom recently, lol >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Samuel MacDonald" >>To: "TC LUG" >>Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 9:15 AM >>Subject: [TCLUG] Danger >> >> >> >> >>>Got a 52x24x52 CD RW for xmas! >>>I'll have to turn the front of the PC away from me now :-) >>> >>>Mmmmm ISO's. >>> >>>Sam. >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Sat Dec 27 15:06:52 2003 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG Classified - Reminder Message-ID: <20031227210652.GA17985@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> I placed an ad in November, selling a 600 MHz Duron processor and a cooling fan for $20. There was some interest, but no one claimed them. Therefore, I still have them. If anyone is interested, send me an email. -- Jim Kaufman Linux Evangelist public key 0x6D802619 http://www.linuxforbusiness.net --- Try to be the best of what you are, even if what you are is no good. -- Ashleigh Brilliant _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Sat Dec 27 15:19:07 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnnyfulcrum@mn.rr.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad (+++ ON TOPIC) Message-ID: <10f4d910ff39.10ff3910f4d9@rdc-kc.rr.com> I have gentoo compiling from stage1 on two of them (the ones in the ad). Been compiling for most of the day now - still compiling bootstrap. These boxes should SMOKE with Gentoo and fluxbox - what a deal at $40! (well for me anyways...) I'm going for a low end mythTv with one of these box - just now ordering my WINtv 350 card... and a seagate 160gb for $90 at best buy online! Don't know if the mythtv will work well, but I just want to mostly watch stuff (dvd, and other divx stuff I have) and maybe some tv once and a while.... I hope to record every thing I do to get one of these boxes going with myth and gentoo! I'll pass it along iof anyone is interested... ----- Original Message ----- From: Samuel MacDonald Date: Friday, December 26, 2003 5:45 pm Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad (+++ ON TOPIC) > These are not small, they are full ATX desktop cases, DeskPro EN > series. > The machines are really fast, I setup 2 with W98 for my kids, they > went > form P233's to PII400's. > They have ATI 3D cards in them, the kids are really happy. > > I'm going to put RH 8 on one tonight, I'll let the list know how > it > turns out. > > Sam. > > Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > >If it is the small form factor unit, I would like one too... > > > >--- > >Troy Johnson - troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us > >Programmer / System Administrator > >Minnesota Cancer Surveillance System - MDH > > > > > >>>>florin@iucha.net 12/26/03 2:41 PM >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >On Fri, Dec 26, 2003 at 09:22:53AM -0600, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > > > > > >>New TCLUG Classified Ad > >> > >>Category: Computer > >> > >>Type of Ad: For Sale > >> > >>Subject: PCs For Sale > >> > >>I have 2 Compaq DeskPro EN's for sale. > >>NO HARD DISK drives. > >>PII400 192MB RAM 3D Video 10 100 NIC CD and FD. > >>AND THE SCREWS TO MOUNT THE HD > >> > >>20 each > >> > >>http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > >> > >> > > > >It's not there! Is this the small form factor? > > > >Does is look like this: > > > >http://images.cdnsystems.com/ebay-images/Compaq-Deskpro-SFF-PIII- > 550-Front.jpg > >? > > > >I'll take one, then. > > > >florin > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sat Dec 27 20:47:12 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312280247.hBS2lCF08245@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: AMD Duron 700 for sale I have an AN AMD Duron 700 with the L1 bridges tapped. It overclocks to over 900 Mhz with no problem. Not run long at the OC'ED, I got an Athlon instead. Best offer. doughanson at comcast.net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rotbau at squishnet.com Sat Dec 27 23:27:17 2003 From: rotbau at squishnet.com (rotbau) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list Digest, Vol 3, Issue 112 References: Message-ID: <000701c3cd03$4230db80$3389a8c0@r0q4o4> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 12:00 PM Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 3, Issue 112 > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tclug-list-owner@mn-linux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Re: ezmlm warning (David Dyer-Bennet) > 2. Re: New TCLUG Classified Ad (Florin Iucha) > 3. Re: New TCLUG Classified Ad (Troy.A Johnson) > 4. Re: New TCLUG Classified Ad (+++ ON TOPIC) (Samuel MacDonald) > 5. Re: Step by step setup of Postfix on RHL73 (Tim Wilson) > 6. Re: New TCLUG Classified Ad (+++ ON TOPIC) (Wayne Johnson) > 7. Re: Danger (Wayne Johnson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 12:10:41 -0600 > From: "David Dyer-Bennet" > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Re: ezmlm warning > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Samuel MacDonald writes: > > > Um.... > > > > I don't know why but I got this, I haven't seen any problems. > > That relates to another list, not this list. You *are* signed up for > the talk@tcphp.org list, right? > > Did you read the full message? It says it got a bounce on one > specific list message sent to you, and it gives a full copy of the > bounce message, which says that visi refused the message. > > Have you fetched message 7704 from that mailing list's archives? Did > you in fact already receive that message? > > I guess I'm confused by your confusion; all the details of exactly > what happened are laid out very explicitly in the message. > > > Sam. > > > > talk-help@tcphp.org wrote: > > > >>Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the > >>talk@tcphp.org mailing list. > >> > >>I'm working for my owner, who can be reached > >>at talk-owner@tcphp.org. > >> > >> > >>Messages to you from the talk mailing list seem to > >>have been bouncing. I've attached a copy of the first bounce > >>message I received. > >> > >>If this message bounces too, I will send you a probe. If the probe bounces, > >>I will remove your address from the talk mailing list, > >>without further notice. > >> > >> > >> I've kept a list of which messages from the talk mailing list have > >> bounced from your address. > >> > >>Copies of these messages may be in the archive. > >>To retrieve a set of messages 123-145 (a maximum of 100 per request), > >>send an empty message to: > >> > >> > >>To receive a subject and author list for the last 100 or so messages, > >>send an empty message to: > >> > >> > >>Here are the message numbers: > >> > >> 7704 > >> > >>--- Enclosed is a copy of the bounce message I received. > >> > >>Return-Path: <> > >>Received: (qmail 73717 invoked for bounce); 14 Dec 2003 10:21:30 -0000 > >>Date: 14 Dec 2003 10:21:30 -0000 > >>From: MAILER-DAEMON@max.pajunas.net > >>To: talk-return-7704-@tcphp.org > >>Subject: failure notice > >> > >>Hi. This is the qmail-send program at max.pajunas.net. > >>I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. > >>This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. > >> > >>: > >>12.158.35.251 failed after I sent the message. > >>Remote host said: 571 Message Refused > >> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -- > David Dyer-Bennet, , > RKBA: > Photos: Snapshots: > Dragaera/Steven Brust: > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 14:41:27 -0600 > From: florin@iucha.net (Florin Iucha) > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: <20031226204127.GJ755@iucha.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > On Fri, Dec 26, 2003 at 09:22:53AM -0600, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > > New TCLUG Classified Ad > > > > Category: Computer > > > > Type of Ad: For Sale > > > > Subject: PCs For Sale > > > > I have 2 Compaq DeskPro EN's for sale. > > NO HARD DISK drives. > > PII400 192MB RAM 3D Video 10 100 NIC CD and FD. > > AND THE SCREWS TO MOUNT THE HD > > > > 20 each > > > > http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > > It's not there! Is this the small form factor? > > Does is look like this: > http://images.cdnsystems.com/ebay-images/Compaq-Deskpro-SFF-PIII-550-Front.jpg ? > > I'll take one, then. > > florin > > -- > > Don't question authority: they don't know either! > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 189 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : http://mailman.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031226/bf078fab/attachment.bin > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:13:51 -0600 > From: "Troy.A Johnson" > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > If it is the small form factor unit, I would like one too... > > --- > Troy Johnson - troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us > Programmer / System Administrator > Minnesota Cancer Surveillance System - MDH > >>> florin@iucha.net 12/26/03 2:41 PM >>> > On Fri, Dec 26, 2003 at 09:22:53AM -0600, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > > New TCLUG Classified Ad > > > > Category: Computer > > > > Type of Ad: For Sale > > > > Subject: PCs For Sale > > > > I have 2 Compaq DeskPro EN's for sale. > > NO HARD DISK drives. > > PII400 192MB RAM 3D Video 10 100 NIC CD and FD. > > AND THE SCREWS TO MOUNT THE HD > > > > 20 each > > > > http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > > It's not there! Is this the small form factor? > > Does is look like this: > > http://images.cdnsystems.com/ebay-images/Compaq-Deskpro-SFF-PIII-550-Front.jpg > ? > > I'll take one, then. > > florin > > -- > > Don't question authority: they don't know either! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:45:54 -0600 > From: Samuel MacDonald > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad (+++ ON TOPIC) > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: <3FECC832.4080505@visi.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > These are not small, they are full ATX desktop cases, DeskPro EN series. > > The machines are really fast, I setup 2 with W98 for my kids, they went > form P233's to PII400's. > They have ATI 3D cards in them, the kids are really happy. > > I'm going to put RH 8 on one tonight, I'll let the list know how it > turns out. > > Sam. > > Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > >If it is the small form factor unit, I would like one too... > > > >--- > >Troy Johnson - troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us > >Programmer / System Administrator > >Minnesota Cancer Surveillance System - MDH > > > > > >>>>florin@iucha.net 12/26/03 2:41 PM >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >On Fri, Dec 26, 2003 at 09:22:53AM -0600, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > > > > > >>New TCLUG Classified Ad > >> > >>Category: Computer > >> > >>Type of Ad: For Sale > >> > >>Subject: PCs For Sale > >> > >>I have 2 Compaq DeskPro EN's for sale. > >>NO HARD DISK drives. > >>PII400 192MB RAM 3D Video 10 100 NIC CD and FD. > >>AND THE SCREWS TO MOUNT THE HD > >> > >>20 each > >> > >>http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > >> > >> > > > >It's not there! Is this the small form factor? > > > >Does is look like this: > > > >http://images.cdnsystems.com/ebay-images/Compaq-Deskpro-SFF-PIII-550-Front. jpg > >? > > > >I'll take one, then. > > > >florin > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:35:51 -0600 > From: Tim Wilson > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Step by step setup of Postfix on RHL73 > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Dec 25, 2003, at 3:18 PM, Dan Shelstad wrote: > > > How can I find out if there is an RPM available for 7.3? > > Try http://rpmfind.net/ > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson > Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA > Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy > mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:34:49 -0600 (CST) > From: "Wayne Johnson" > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad (+++ ON TOPIC) > To: > Cc: smac@visi.com > Message-ID: <1214.192.1.1.23.1072496090.squirrel@dccmn.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > It's a full tower. Got a secondary back plane for the PCI/ISA slots, so > it ain't exactly an ATX. > > I'm using one as my Linux Gateway/Webserver/Fileserver, etc. Works fine > with RH 7.1, 8, & 9. I'm about to install RHEL3 on it, no cat calls, > please. > > Samuel MacDonald said: > > These are not small, they are full ATX desktop cases, DeskPro EN series. > > > > The machines are really fast, I setup 2 with W98 for my kids, they went > > form P233's to PII400's. > > They have ATI 3D cards in them, the kids are really happy. > > > > I'm going to put RH 8 on one tonight, I'll let the list know how it > > turns out. > > > > Sam. > > > > Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > > >>If it is the small form factor unit, I would like one too... > >> > >>--- > >>Troy Johnson - troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us > >>Programmer / System Administrator > >>Minnesota Cancer Surveillance System - MDH > >> > >> > >>>>>florin@iucha.net 12/26/03 2:41 PM >>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>On Fri, Dec 26, 2003 at 09:22:53AM -0600, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > >> > >> > >>>New TCLUG Classified Ad > >>> > >>>Category: Computer > >>> > >>>Type of Ad: For Sale > >>> > >>>Subject: PCs For Sale > >>> > >>>I have 2 Compaq DeskPro EN's for sale. > >>>NO HARD DISK drives. > >>>PII400 192MB RAM 3D Video 10 100 NIC CD and FD. > >>>AND THE SCREWS TO MOUNT THE HD > >>> > >>>20 each > >>> > >>>http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > >>> > >>> > >> > >>It's not there! Is this the small form factor? > >> > >>Does is look like this: > >> > >>http://images.cdnsystems.com/ebay-images/Compaq-Deskpro-SFF-PIII-550-Front .jpg > >> ? > >> > >>I'll take one, then. > >> > >>florin > >> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:43:17 -0600 (CST) > From: "Wayne Johnson" > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Danger > To: > Cc: smac@visi.com > Message-ID: <1252.192.1.1.23.1072496597.squirrel@dccmn.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > All the DR CD drives I've had died after about 3 months. Not sure it's > worth the $20. > > Samuel MacDonald said: > > The software that came with it "Nero 6" can set the speed of the CDRW. I > > kept my 24x Teac CDROM as the master drive of the 2 drives. I should > > be able to go CD to CDR. I got this thing at Best Buy it was $60 with > > $40 in rebates. It's made by Digital Research Technology, I Couldn't > > resist the final $20 price. > > > > Sam. > > > > Scott J Julian wrote: > > > >>yea sam, got a 52x burner here a month or so back, spins up louder than > >> a huey, lol. Didnt someone have an exploding cdrom recently, lol > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Samuel MacDonald" > >>To: "TC LUG" > >>Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 9:15 AM > >>Subject: [TCLUG] Danger > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>Got a 52x24x52 CD RW for xmas! > >>>I'll have to turn the front of the PC away from me now :-) > >>> > >>>Mmmmm ISO's. > >>> > >>>Sam. > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 3, Issue 112 > ****************************************** _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Dec 28 00:27:06 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DeskPro EN 400 & Red Hat 8 Message-ID: <3FEE77BA.3060009@visi.com> Red Hat 8 even detected the S710 monitor, the only problem I had was the sound. That wasn't much of a problem with sndconfig, I set it to SB16 and IRQ 7 and DMA 1. The CD works fine (music) even with the machine sitting on edge (never liked doing that). These machines have a speaker in them, makes a neet boom box, but you need a really long power cord ;-) Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com Sun Dec 28 12:08:40 2003 From: LCLEMENS at mn.rr.com (Lawrence Clemens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DeskPro EN 400 & Red Hat 8 References: <3FEE77BA.3060009@visi.com> Message-ID: <001401c3cd6d$9f988c90$24fea8c0@computer> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Dec 28 13:26:45 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DeskPro EN 400 & Red Hat 8 In-Reply-To: <001401c3cd6d$9f988c90$24fea8c0@computer> References: <3FEE77BA.3060009@visi.com> <001401c3cd6d$9f988c90$24fea8c0@computer> Message-ID: <3FEF2E75.9090205@visi.com> Older sound hardware doesn't get allocated when it's found for some reason. Be sure to choose to install "sndconfig" the Red Hat sound configuration tool. It's not something that automatically gets installed, it's a curses based installation tool. Lawrence Clemens wrote: > Thanks, Sam. I somehow missed the fact that you were able to go with > RedHat > all the way. Maybe I'll try that route. > Larry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Samuel MacDonald" > > To: "TC LUG" > > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 12:27 AM > Subject: [TCLUG] DeskPro EN 400 & Red Hat 8 > > > > Red Hat 8 even detected the S710 monitor, the only problem I had was the > > sound. That wasn't much of a problem with sndconfig, I set it to SB16 > > and IRQ 7 and DMA 1. The CD works fine (music) even with the machine > > sitting on edge (never liked doing that). These machines have a speaker > > in them, makes a neet boom box, but you need a really long power > cord ;-) > > > > Sam. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sun Dec 28 13:46:22 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312281946.hBSJkMk19463@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: Want to Buy Subject: Laptop wanted - trade 700MHZ Presario w/17-inch I am looking for a laptop. I have a 700MHZ Presario with a 17" Dell M70 monitor that I am willing to trade for a decent laptop. Call or email with offers. 612 728 7854 tom(a)wordesign(d)net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Sun Dec 28 14:43:15 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DeskPro EN 400 & Red Hat 8 In-Reply-To: <3FEF2E75.9090205@visi.com> References: <3FEE77BA.3060009@visi.com> <001401c3cd6d$9f988c90$24fea8c0@computer> <3FEF2E75.9090205@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FEF4063.6030707@comcast.net> Don't forget, you can also install/use "sndconfig" with Mandrake. :-) Samuel MacDonald wrote: > Older sound hardware doesn't get allocated when it's found for some > reason. Be sure to choose to install "sndconfig" the Red Hat sound > configuration tool. It's not something that automatically gets > installed, it's a curses based installation tool. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Sun Dec 28 15:10:37 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rookie locking himself out of KDE Message-ID: I have a Linksys input switch for my windows and linux box so I can share a monitor. Sometimes, if I spend too much time away from my Linux box, I switch over to it and there is an item on the task bar called kdesktop_lock and I cannot see/move my mouse or use my keyboard. I googles kdesktop lock and found little help. Tom Wurdock WORD design http://www.wordesign.net twurdock@wordesign.net 612.728.7854 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sun Dec 28 15:42:25 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (rick ) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rookie locking himself out of KDE Message-ID: <200312281542.AA1743913154@mail.eworld3.net> It sounds like you have the locking option of the screen saver turned on. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "PHPTOm" Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:10:37 -0600 >I have a Linksys input switch for my windows and linux box so I can share a >monitor. Sometimes, if I spend too much time away from my Linux box, I >switch over to it and there is an item on the task bar called kdesktop_lock >and I cannot see/move my mouse or use my keyboard. I googles kdesktop lock >and found little help. > >Tom Wurdock >WORD design >http://www.wordesign.net >twurdock@wordesign.net >612.728.7854 > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sun Dec 28 18:36:48 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (rick ) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dialup mysteriously stopped working Message-ID: <200312281836.AA1393033412@mail.eworld3.net> It looks like kppp establishes a ppp connection to my ISP but I am not able to actually use the connection. I am able to ping my Windoze box and my IPCop box but when I try to ping my ISP's DNS using it's IP address I get: "From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Destination Net Unreachable". That's strange, 192.168.1.3 is the IP of my IPCop box but I am pinging from my Linux box whose IP is 192.168.1.1 ifconfig shows that ppp0 gets created after the ppp connection is made to my ISP and ps shows that pppd is running. I know that it's not a problem with my ISP because I can use my Windoze box to connect, that's how I can post this message. Since I have not been able to get IPCop working I am still running shorewall on my Linux box. I have tried shutting it down but that does not help. Any ideas? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sun Dec 28 19:26:03 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312290126.hBT1Q3J25261@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Gateway 19 inch EV910 I have 1 EV910 for sale. Used but works fine. 50 dollars http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at myrealbox.com Sun Dec 28 20:06:33 2003 From: kcbnac at myrealbox.com (K B) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest pinging constantly Message-ID: <1072663593.b70f1f00kcbnac@myrealbox.com> Anyone else on Qwest dialup (DSL perhaps as well) for their ISP? My friend and I are both getting pinged constantly by various hosts on Qwest...IPs are in the 67.x.x.x range, all from various cities in the US. Any clue wether these are infected clients or servers? Zonealarm failed once and took out my friend's Windows Media Player codecs (all were toast- only had .WAV support left) Just trying to figure it out before I give their tech support the old run-around. Then again, last time the qwest email had problems, got right on the phone with techs and dealt with it. Thanks guys. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erick at nixbrain.com Sun Dec 28 20:43:53 2003 From: erick at nixbrain.com (Erick Stohr) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Modified Athlon XP 2200+'s Message-ID: <3FEF94E9.4020002@nixbrain.com> I don't know if anyone else has run into/done this, but I bought an Asus A7M266-D yesterday and 2 Athlon XP 2200's becuase the place I bought the board at was out of MP's (Nano had 1 1.2 MP and the others they had were $150 or so a processor) and I was told by someone at the store that sometimes you can drop XP's in and they will be read as MP's, so going for a cheaper dual system and potentially less stable I bought this stuff, got home and dropped a CPU in and it read fine as a single, but not as an MP, and then dropped the second in and same result, not read by the BIOS as an MP. So i googled. Come to find out the earlier versions of the XP, I think before 1800, worked as MP's on dual boards becuase there is a bridge on the L5 cache that is open and on the newer XP's this is closed. Long story short, there are a bunch of articles out there on how to unlock the L5 cache and after about 6 hrs last night and 5 this morning I got the XP's to read as MP's using a Rear Window Defog Repair Kit, which people suggest in the articles and I overlooked. I am not a hardware geek so this was quite the accomplishment for me and of course I made it more difficult that it should have been, but it was fun. Got Debian up on the system with no problems. -- Erick Stohr Burnsville, MN erick@enrwebdev.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Sun Dec 28 21:09:07 2003 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Modified Athlon XP 2200+'s In-Reply-To: <3FEF94E9.4020002@nixbrain.com> References: <3FEF94E9.4020002@nixbrain.com> Message-ID: Hey, that's pretty cool. How about some pointers/information? how stable is the thing so far? What did you do with the defogging thing? Links to interesting/useful articles? -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewbaka at toughguy.net Sun Dec 28 20:55:13 2003 From: chewbaka at toughguy.net (B_o_B) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mail Server on RoadRunner Cable Message-ID: <18133654382.20031228205513@toughguy.net> Sunday, December 28, 2003 @ 8:13:18 PM Central Standard Time Hi. I was wondering if anyone had any advice regarding the following situation I have with Road Runner. I fired up an e-mail server over here this weekend (1st time since I have had RR), and cannot send mail to many of the Big Guy(AOL, RoadRunner, etc...) mail servers. I have been able to send mail, just the big guys seem to block me. I receive rejects from their mail servers saying my IP address & or server is a residential spam bomb pirate, and should be treated like a punk. Here is one from Netscape/AOL: UNDELIVERABLE MAIL Your message to the following recipients cannot be delivered: <************@netscape.net>: mailin-04.mx.netscape.net [205.188.158.57]: <<< 554- (RTR:BB) The IP address you are using to connect to AOL is a dynamic <<< 554- (residential) IP address. AOL will not accept future e-mail transactions <<< 554- from this IP address until your ISP removes this IP address from its list <<< 554- of dynamic (residential) IP addresses. For additional information, <<< 554 please visit http://postmaster.info.aol.com. & here is one I received from Road Runner while sending mail to an account their: UNDELIVERABLE MAIL Your message to the following recipients cannot be delivered: <**********@mn.rr.com>: kcmx03.mgw.rr.com [24.94.165.192]: >>> MAIL FROM: <<< 550 5.7.1 Mail Refused - 65.27.80 - See http://security.rr.com/mail_blocks.htm#security - 20031122 I have standard Residental Cable Modem Access w/a Dynamic IP. I have a host name/dynamic dns (free) service through www.dyndns.org. dyndns allows me to setup a MX record for my host on the domain name they gave me, so I did. I am running the Courier mail server (if that matters). I was wondering if anyone else out their had problems like this, and what they did to get around it (if you can get around it). I know I could get a real IP from a real ISP, and get a real domain name, but all that costs money that I don't have to spend on such foolishness for my house at the moment. Many Thanks, Robert (aka B_o_B) David Felix De Mars West Longitude 90' 15' 43" http://b-o-b.homelinux.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sun Dec 28 21:03:55 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest pinging constantly In-Reply-To: <1072663593.b70f1f00kcbnac@myrealbox.com> References: <1072663593.b70f1f00kcbnac@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20031229030355.GD735@techmonkeys.org> This is the background noise of the internet, ignore it. (And stop supporting crap software companies like zone alarm) On Sun, Dec 28, 2003 at 08:06:33PM -0600, K B wrote: > Anyone else on Qwest dialup (DSL perhaps as well) for their ISP? My friend and I are both getting pinged constantly by various hosts on Qwest...IPs are in the 67.x.x.x range, all from various cities in the US. Any clue wether these are infected clients or servers? Zonealarm failed once and took out my friend's Windows Media Player codecs (all were toast- only had .WAV support left) > > Just trying to figure it out before I give their tech support the old run-around. Then again, last time the qwest email had problems, got right on the phone with techs and dealt with it. > > Thanks guys. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewbaka at toughguy.net Sun Dec 28 21:01:02 2003 From: chewbaka at toughguy.net (B_o_B) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mail Server on RoadRunner Cable Message-ID: <9434003133.20031228210102@toughguy.net> Sunday, December 28, 2003 @ 9:00:41 PM Central Standard Time Hi. I was wondering if anyone had any advice regarding the following situation I have with Road Runner. I fired up an e-mail server over here this weekend (1st time since I have had RR), and cannot send mail to many of the Big Guy(AOL, RoadRunner, etc...) mail servers. I have been able to send mail, just the big guys seem to block me. I receive rejects from their mail servers saying my IP address & or server is a residential spam bomb pirate, and should be treated like a punk. Here is one from Netscape/AOL: UNDELIVERABLE MAIL Your message to the following recipients cannot be delivered: <************@netscape.net>: mailin-04.mx.netscape.net [205.188.158.57]: <<< 554- (RTR:BB) The IP address you are using to connect to AOL is a dynamic <<< 554- (residential) IP address. AOL will not accept future e-mail transactions <<< 554- from this IP address until your ISP removes this IP address from its list <<< 554- of dynamic (residential) IP addresses. For additional information, <<< 554 please visit http://postmaster.info.aol.com. & here is one I received from Road Runner while sending mail to an account their: UNDELIVERABLE MAIL Your message to the following recipients cannot be delivered: <**********@mn.rr.com>: kcmx03.mgw.rr.com [24.94.165.192]: >>> MAIL FROM: <<< 550 5.7.1 Mail Refused - 65.27.80 - See http://security.rr.com/mail_blocks.htm#security - 20031122 I have standard Residental Cable Modem Access w/a Dynamic IP. I have a host name/dynamic dns (free) service through www.dyndns.org. dyndns allows me to setup a MX record for my host on the domain name they gave me, so I did. I am running the Courier mail server (if that matters). I was wondering if anyone else out their had problems like this, and what they did to get around it (if you can get around it). I know I could get a real IP from a real ISP, and get a real domain name, but all that costs money that I don't have to spend on such foolishness for my house at the moment. Many Thanks, Robert (aka B_o_B) David Felix De Mars West Longitude 90' 15' 43" http://b-o-b.homelinux.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Sun Dec 28 21:32:21 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mail Server on RoadRunner Cable In-Reply-To: <9434003133.20031228210102@toughguy.net> References: <9434003133.20031228210102@toughguy.net> Message-ID: <20031228213221.7c449d3e@langly.trutwins.homeip.net> I had a similar problem like this and I think I even posted here about it. I am running qmail, I needed to add a couple entries to my /var/qmail/control/smtproutes for using road runner's smarthosts for certain domains that complained about this: aol.com:smtp-server.mn.rr.com netscape.net:smtp-server.mn.rr.com hotmail.com:smtp-server.mn.rr.com rr.com:smtp-server.mn.rr.com udlp.com:smtp-server.mn.rr.com Not sure what courier SMTP's smarthost configuration is, might want to check their ML archives. Josh On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:01:02 -0600 B_o_B wrote: > Sunday, December 28, 2003 @ 9:00:41 PM Central Standard Time > > Hi. I was wondering if anyone had any advice regarding the following > situation I have with Road Runner. > > I fired up an e-mail server over here this weekend (1st time since I > have had RR), and cannot send mail to many of the Big Guy(AOL, > RoadRunner, etc...) mail servers. I have been able to send mail, just > the big guys seem to block me. I receive rejects from their mail > servers saying my IP address & or server is a residential spam bomb pirate, > and should be treated like a punk. Here is one from Netscape/AOL: > > UNDELIVERABLE MAIL > > Your message to the following recipients cannot be delivered: > > <************@netscape.net>: > mailin-04.mx.netscape.net [205.188.158.57]: > <<< 554- (RTR:BB) The IP address you are using to connect to AOL is a dynamic > <<< 554- (residential) IP address. AOL will not accept future e-mail transactions > <<< 554- from this IP address until your ISP removes this IP address from its list > <<< 554- of dynamic (residential) IP addresses. For additional information, > <<< 554 please visit http://postmaster.info.aol.com. > > & here is one I received from Road Runner while sending mail to an > account their: > > UNDELIVERABLE MAIL > > Your message to the following recipients cannot be delivered: > > <**********@mn.rr.com>: > kcmx03.mgw.rr.com [24.94.165.192]: > >>> MAIL FROM: > <<< 550 5.7.1 Mail Refused - 65.27.80 - See > http://security.rr.com/mail_blocks.htm#security - 20031122 > > I have standard Residental Cable Modem Access w/a Dynamic IP. > I have a host name/dynamic dns (free) service through www.dyndns.org. > dyndns allows me to setup a MX record for my host on the domain name > they gave me, so I did. I am running the Courier mail server (if that > matters). > > I was wondering if anyone else out their had problems like this, and > what they did to get around it (if you can get around it). > > I know I could get a real IP from a real ISP, and get a real domain > name, but all that costs money that I don't have to spend on such > foolishness for my house at the moment. > > Many Thanks, > > Robert (aka B_o_B) David Felix De Mars > West Longitude 90' 15' 43" > http://b-o-b.homelinux.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erick at nixbrain.com Sun Dec 28 21:26:13 2003 From: erick at nixbrain.com (Erick Stohr) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Modified Athlon XP 2200+'s In-Reply-To: References: <3FEF94E9.4020002@nixbrain.com> Message-ID: <3FEF9ED5.9020008@nixbrain.com> Yaron wrote: > Hey, that's pretty cool. > > How about some pointers/information? how stable is the thing so far? What > did you do with the defogging thing? Links to interesting/useful articles? > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Sure I can give pointers/info: A basic article, the one I first used is here: http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2002mar/bch20020318010765.htm Two people said in the posts on the topic that they used pencil lead as a conductor, I tried this and it didn't work for me, also, I just took the adheasive from the rear window repair kit and connected the bridge, one article talked about having to plug the laser made cut in the bridge with something non-conductive, I didn't do this and it worked, but I also scraped away at the processor a lot trying to re-apply the adheasive correctly so I may have scraped deep enough to get rid of the cut. Another article that is more in depth and step by step is here: http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/motherboards/iwill/mpx2/ and where I got the rear window defog kit answer. Also, the L5 cache seems to vary on differnt XP's, in the pictures in the articles the bridge you need to connect is on the opposite end of the L5 lable, on my 2200's it was right next to the L5 label. To get a better view of my CPU I googled for an "up close" picture of the 2200 and found one, don't have the link, but that helped. In the BIOS I disabled MP checking and set the Slu (I think that is what it is called) to 1. Probably not necessary but this is what I did. The system has been running all day with no problems, seems stable for now. -- Erick Stohr Burnsville, MN 612-554-8287 erick@enrwebdev.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Sun Dec 28 21:55:20 2003 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mail Server on RoadRunner Cable In-Reply-To: <9434003133.20031228210102@toughguy.net> References: <9434003133.20031228210102@toughguy.net> Message-ID: <200312282155.20603.barnabas@knicknack.net> I also have RR service and have had the same problem. They way I get around it is to forward the outbound mail for domains that check the dynamic IP lists through smtp-server.mn.rr.com. You could also forward all your mail through that address, but I prefer to send most of it from my server directly. I use Exim so I can't tell you how to configure Courier to do this. HTH, Eric On Sunday 28 December 2003 21:01, B_o_B wrote: > Sunday, December 28, 2003 @ 9:00:41 PM Central Standard Time > > Hi. I was wondering if anyone had any advice regarding the following > situation I have with Road Runner. > > I fired up an e-mail server over here this weekend (1st time since I > have had RR), and cannot send mail to many of the Big Guy(AOL, > RoadRunner, etc...) mail servers. I have been able to send mail, just > the big guys seem to block me. I receive rejects from their mail > servers saying my IP address & or server is a residential spam bomb pirate, > and should be treated like a punk. Here is one from Netscape/AOL: > > UNDELIVERABLE MAIL > > Your message to the following recipients cannot be delivered: > > <************@netscape.net>: > mailin-04.mx.netscape.net [205.188.158.57]: > <<< 554- (RTR:BB) The IP address you are using to connect to AOL is a > dynamic <<< 554- (residential) IP address. AOL will not accept future > e-mail transactions <<< 554- from this IP address until your ISP removes > this IP address from its list <<< 554- of dynamic (residential) IP > addresses. For additional information, <<< 554 please visit > http://postmaster.info.aol.com. > > & here is one I received from Road Runner while sending mail to an > account their: > > UNDELIVERABLE MAIL > > Your message to the following recipients cannot be delivered: > > <**********@mn.rr.com>: > > kcmx03.mgw.rr.com [24.94.165.192]: > >>> MAIL FROM: > > <<< 550 5.7.1 Mail Refused - 65.27.80 - See > http://security.rr.com/mail_blocks.htm#security - 20031122 > > I have standard Residental Cable Modem Access w/a Dynamic IP. > I have a host name/dynamic dns (free) service through www.dyndns.org. > dyndns allows me to setup a MX record for my host on the domain name > they gave me, so I did. I am running the Courier mail server (if that > matters). > > I was wondering if anyone else out their had problems like this, and > what they did to get around it (if you can get around it). > > I know I could get a real IP from a real ISP, and get a real domain > name, but all that costs money that I don't have to spend on such > foolishness for my house at the moment. > > Many Thanks, > > Robert (aka B_o_B) David Felix De Mars > West Longitude 90' 15' 43" > http://b-o-b.homelinux.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Mon Dec 29 02:38:14 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Exiscan sucks Message-ID: <1072687093.11405.98.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Mon Dec 29 05:33:00 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to make exiscan suck less In-Reply-To: <1072687093.11405.98.camel@bigtime> References: <1072687093.11405.98.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <1072697580.23427.34.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Dec 29 07:41:50 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dialup mysteriously stopped working In-Reply-To: <200312281836.AA1393033412@mail.eworld3.net> References: <200312281836.AA1393033412@mail.eworld3.net> Message-ID: <1072705309.94.15.camel@unixws1> Sounds like PPP isn't setting your default route to be the PPP interface. After you connect, try adding a default route by hand, pointing to the IP of PPP0, and see if you can get out then. On Sun, 2003-12-28 at 18:36, rick wrote: > It looks like kppp establishes a ppp connection to my ISP but I am not > able to actually use the connection. I am able to ping my Windoze box > and my IPCop box but when I try to ping my ISP's DNS using it's IP address I get: "From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Destination Net Unreachable". That's strange, 192.168.1.3 is the IP of my IPCop box but I am pinging from my Linux box whose IP is 192.168.1.1 > > ifconfig shows that ppp0 gets created after the ppp connection is made > to my ISP and ps shows that pppd is running. > > I know that it's not a problem with my > ISP because I can use my Windoze box to connect, that's how I can post > this message. > > Since I have not been able to get IPCop working I am still running > shorewall on my Linux box. I have tried shutting it down but that does > not help. > > Any ideas? > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Dec 29 07:40:07 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest pinging constantly In-Reply-To: <20031229030355.GD735@techmonkeys.org> References: <1072663593.b70f1f00kcbnac@myrealbox.com> <20031229030355.GD735@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <1072705205.94.12.camel@unixws1> i.e., the background ICMP radiation that resulted from the "BBN Bang" about 45 years ago :) Anyways...yes, Zone Alarm is less a firewall and more of a "random stuff notification and feel-good suite". Anyone who follows BugTraq can that you that it has opened up more holes than it actually protects. ZoneAlarm exists more to just beep and blink and make you feel really good, while sucking huge objects through straws and plotting against you behind your back. I couldn't recommend any firewall that doesn't run on a dedicated machine, or is Windows-based (although this is getting harder to justify, since MS seems to be cleaning up the TCP stack...), isn't ICSA certified, is annoying (in general), and is annoying (in respects to making users call) And I would definately wonder why my firewall software logged source UDP/53 (DNS) response packets as suspicious...grrrr...fscking Zone Alarm... A firewall is like a child, it should be neither seen nor heard, preferrably locked up in a closet for the first 18 years. On Sun, 2003-12-28 at 21:03, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > This is the background noise of the internet, ignore it. > > (And stop supporting crap software companies like zone alarm) > > On Sun, Dec 28, 2003 at 08:06:33PM -0600, K B wrote: > > Anyone else on Qwest dialup (DSL perhaps as well) for their ISP? My friend and I are both getting pinged constantly by various hosts on Qwest...IPs are in the 67.x.x.x range, all from various cities in the US. Any clue wether these are infected clients or servers? Zonealarm failed once and took out my friend's Windows Media Player codecs (all were toast- only had .WAV support left) > > > > Just trying to figure it out before I give their tech support the old run-around. Then again, last time the qwest email had problems, got right on the phone with techs and dealt with it. > > > > Thanks guys. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Mon Dec 29 08:04:13 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Local Reasonable DVD+RW Media Suggestions In-Reply-To: <20031225002935.GI6711@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: > DVD+* sucks unless you're only using it on your own system, if this is the > case, good for you. How was that helpful or relevant to the question? It was also ill-informed, IMO. Granted I did sell off my DVD+R/W recorder, but under very specific circumstances, not because it didn't work in 98% of the players I tried. (even some that wouldn't take -R) I definitely preferred the +R, as it didn't take 8 years to finalize. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Dec 29 08:29:14 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Modified Athlon XP 2200+'s In-Reply-To: <3FEF94E9.4020002@nixbrain.com> References: <3FEF94E9.4020002@nixbrain.com> Message-ID: <3FF03A3A.6030807@visi.com> What warranty? ;-) Erick Stohr wrote: > I don't know if anyone else has run into/done this, but I bought an > Asus A7M266-D yesterday and 2 Athlon XP 2200's becuase the place I > bought the board at was out of MP's (Nano had 1 1.2 MP and the others > they had were $150 or so a processor) and I was told by someone at the > store that sometimes you can drop XP's in and they will be read as > MP's, so going for a cheaper dual system and potentially less stable I > bought this stuff, got home and dropped a CPU in and it read fine as a > single, but not as an MP, and then dropped the second in and same > result, not read by the BIOS as an MP. So i googled. Come to find out > the earlier versions of the XP, I think before 1800, worked as MP's on > dual boards becuase there is a bridge on the L5 cache that is open and > on the newer XP's this is closed. Long story short, there are a bunch > of articles out there on how to unlock the L5 cache and after about 6 > hrs last night and 5 this morning I got the XP's to read as MP's using > a Rear Window Defog Repair Kit, which people suggest in the articles > and I overlooked. I am not a hardware geek so this was quite the > accomplishment for me and of course I made it more difficult that it > should have been, but it was fun. Got Debian up on the system with no > problems. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Dec 29 09:02:45 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What PCI wireless card works for you? In-Reply-To: <20031225020017.GG755@iucha.net> References: <20031225020017.GG755@iucha.net> Message-ID: <16368.16917.389358.134557@gargle.gargle.HOWL> IIRC, the WMP11 is tricky because later models don't have the prism2 chipset anymore (although they are not marked as different in any way :-<). I have been using an Atheros chip successfully with MadWifi, but that's still very much in development... r _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Dec 29 09:09:50 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: CPAN perl problem Message-ID: <16368.17342.350109.52474@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I've been having no end of pain using CPAN to get new modules. First it tries LWP, then WGET, then it's own FTP, then ncftpget. The first three all fail, with long timeouts, then ncftpget works like a champ. This means all installs take up of 15 minutes, when I can just dl by hand in about 15 seconds. I haven't found any config options to force use of ncftp first. I googled for this and found several mailing list entries with the same problem, but no responses with answers. Anyone on the list having the same problem? A solution? Thanks, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From anchalalai at qtranslation.com Mon Dec 29 04:03:31 2003 From: anchalalai at qtranslation.com (anchalalai) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I can't d/l PPP-2.3.8-mppe-others-norc4_TH7.diff.gz from site.where another place i can get it? Message-ID: <005701c3cdf3$04e74c00$730110ac@buckw2k> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Mon Dec 29 10:17:46 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: CPAN perl problem In-Reply-To: <16368.17342.350109.52474@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16368.17342.350109.52474@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20031229161746.GA28390@mail.el-swifto.com> On Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 09:09:50AM -0600, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > I've been having no end of pain using CPAN to get new modules. First > it tries LWP, then WGET, then it's own FTP, then ncftpget. The first > three all fail, with long timeouts, then ncftpget works like a champ. > This means all installs take up of 15 minutes, when I can just dl by > hand in about 15 seconds. I haven't found any config options to force > use of ncftp first. I googled for this and found several mailing list > entries with the same problem, but no responses with answers. Anyone > on the list having the same problem? A solution? > I'm sort of curious why lynx would fail while ncftpget doesn't; are you behind a firewall or a NAT device? I'm assuming that you're using an FTP mirror, not an HTTP one? Anyhoo, have you tried just modifying your CPAN Config.pm by hand? I've seen people change the "lynx" config to '' to turn it off, but haven't tried it myself. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Dec 29 10:55:35 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: CPAN perl problem Message-ID: Reorder the cpan mirror hosts in Config.pm and get the latest LWP module. Or move Config.pm out of the way and reconfigure. Use: locate Config.pm | grep CPAN to find it and: perl -v to make sure you modify the right one. >>> trammell+tclug@el-swifto.com 12/29/03 10:17AM >>> On Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 09:09:50AM -0600, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > I've been having no end of pain using CPAN to get new modules. First > it tries LWP, then WGET, then it's own FTP, then ncftpget. The first > three all fail, with long timeouts, then ncftpget works like a champ. > This means all installs take up of 15 minutes, when I can just dl by > hand in about 15 seconds. I haven't found any config options to force > use of ncftp first. I googled for this and found several mailing list > entries with the same problem, but no responses with answers. Anyone > on the list having the same problem? A solution? I'm sort of curious why lynx would fail while ncftpget doesn't; are you behind a firewall or a NAT device? I'm assuming that you're using an FTP mirror, not an HTTP one? Anyhoo, have you tried just modifying your CPAN Config.pm by hand? I've seen people change the "lynx" config to '' to turn it off, but haven't tried it myself. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Dec 29 12:35:47 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: CPAN perl problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16368.29699.393534.681488@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Actually, to follow up on my own post, someone from the #perl IRC said I should just export FTP_PASSIVE=1 before firing up perl -MCPAN, which seems to work like a charm.... R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Mon Dec 29 12:37:43 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question Message-ID: <3FF07477.1020006@druswanderings.net> My mom is looking to go the wireless route in the near future for her laptop. I know a lot of you that use wireless put the AP on the DMZ of your firewall. My question is this, do you pinhole the firewall to allow certain services(ie, filesharing, printing, etc.) back into the LAN or do you just limit the AP to internet access? Or is there some other fancy way to allow these services that I'm not aware of? I'm mostly just looking for a security/convenience trade-off comparison. I have nearly no expereince with wireless and would like to come up with a plan/cost before I go buying stuff willy-nilly on my mom's bill. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Mon Dec 29 13:38:39 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question In-Reply-To: <3FF07477.1020006@druswanderings.net>; from dru@druswanderings.net on Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 12:37:43PM -0600 References: <3FF07477.1020006@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: <20031229133839.A9022@thinkunix.net> The Wandering Dru wrote: > My mom is looking to go the wireless route in the near future for her > laptop. I know a lot of you that use wireless put the AP on the DMZ of > your firewall. > > My question is this, do you pinhole the firewall to allow certain > services(ie, filesharing, printing, etc.) back into the LAN or do you > just limit the AP to internet access? Or is there some other fancy way > to allow these services that I'm not aware of? I'm mostly just looking > for a security/convenience trade-off comparison. I recently setup a wireless segment. I'd definitely recommend getting just a wireless AP and stay away from the all-in-one switch/router/wireless/firewall etc. boxes. You'll have more flexibility with a "real" firewall (eg, UNIX box of some flavor). A cheap 486 with 3 nics is plenty for a home network. If you don't want the hastle of building your one firewall ruleset, something like IPCOP is an option. There's a discussion forum on dslreports.com that talks about wireless AP's which I found pretty useful. I bought a Netgear FM114P which I thought would be sufficient to replace my aging (but stable) ipchains firewall and provide wireless. It worked but just didn't have the flexibility of the Linux firewall. Not to mention it was dropping established connections on occassion and other strangeness. So I went back to a UNIX based firewall and put the Netgear in a DMZ. So long as you let the Netgear get it's "WAN" address via DHCP everything works great. I live in an old house (eg, plaster walls) and the Netgear's signal is great everywhere, which is impressive considering the Netgear lives under my basement steps. As far as access to the inside, I believe IPsec/VPN is the way to go but haven't got that working yet. SSH only for the time being. When I need to print I just jack into the inside network, althought the Netgear does have a parallel port. I'm just too lazy to move a printer over there. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Sk3tch at sk3tch.net Mon Dec 29 13:33:49 2003 From: Sk3tch at sk3tch.net (Sk3tch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question Message-ID: I have a setup like this at home, and yes - I use DMZ pinholes to allow traffic through to my "secure" internal network. However, I don't worry about much (i.e. file sharing and printing) - I only allow port 22 (SFTP/SSH) and 3389 (Terminal Services) through. But lets be realistic here...this is your Mom's setup. We can argue all day about how insecure 802.11 protocols are even when "secured" (i.e. WEP, WPA, MAC filtering, etc) but the bottom line is for Mom's connection if you setup WEP and change the router's default password you are about 5x ahead of the average household. Yes a DMZ is best, yes this setup (WEP only) is relatively "risky", but do you want to have to make Mom's network/life so complicated? :) Unless Mom is running a home business or something, I think just the router and WEP should be OK. We don't need to over engineer every solution..most war drivers will see the WEP enabled and move on to a much easier target (because there are plenty). sk3tch -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org on behalf of The Wandering Dru Sent: Mon 12/29/2003 12:37 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question My mom is looking to go the wireless route in the near future for her laptop. I know a lot of you that use wireless put the AP on the DMZ of your firewall. My question is this, do you pinhole the firewall to allow certain services(ie, filesharing, printing, etc.) back into the LAN or do you just limit the AP to internet access? Or is there some other fancy way to allow these services that I'm not aware of? I'm mostly just looking for a security/convenience trade-off comparison. I have nearly no expereince with wireless and would like to come up with a plan/cost before I go buying stuff willy-nilly on my mom's bill. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3724 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031229/fd9b1a5e/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at igi.com Mon Dec 29 13:33:52 2003 From: jasonj at igi.com (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question In-Reply-To: <3FF07477.1020006@druswanderings.net> References: <3FF07477.1020006@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: <3FF081A0.6010100@igi.com> I would set it up so only VPN's would get any access. I would setup a DHCP server and a VPN server of some type (freeswan, vtun) on the wirless network . Then anyone that breaks the WEP doesnt get much access at all, not even internet access. The VPN connection could be trusted behind a firewall. The Wandering Dru wrote: > My mom is looking to go the wireless route in the near future for her > laptop. I know a lot of you that use wireless put the AP on the DMZ > of your firewall. > > My question is this, do you pinhole the firewall to allow certain > services(ie, filesharing, printing, etc.) back into the LAN or do you > just limit the AP to internet access? Or is there some other fancy > way to allow these services that I'm not aware of? I'm mostly just > looking for a security/convenience trade-off comparison. > > I have nearly no expereince with wireless and would like to come up > with a plan/cost before I go buying stuff willy-nilly on my mom's bill. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Mon Dec 29 13:59:13 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question In-Reply-To: <3FF081A0.6010100@igi.com> Message-ID: I wouldn't bother with WEP if I used VPN. It'll just slow the connection a tiny bit and eat up batteries on a laptop a tiny bit faster. But as Sk3ch pointed out, this is your mother's place, not yours or mine. We can handle monkeying with VPN. We like doing that. We like SSH. Your mom probably does not. (No offense to any mothers on the list!) Keep it simple unless you like not only setting this technology up, but also supporting it every time the power goes out or Windows bombs. John > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jason Jorgensen > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 1:34 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question > > > I would set it up so only VPN's would get any access. > > I would setup a DHCP server and a VPN server of some type (freeswan, > vtun) on the wirless network . Then anyone that breaks the WEP doesnt > get much access at all, not even internet access. The VPN connection > could be trusted behind a firewall. > > > The Wandering Dru wrote: > > > My mom is looking to go the wireless route in the near > future for her > > laptop. I know a lot of you that use wireless put the AP > on the DMZ > > of your firewall. > > > > My question is this, do you pinhole the firewall to allow certain > > services(ie, filesharing, printing, etc.) back into the LAN > or do you > > just limit the AP to internet access? Or is there some other fancy > > way to allow these services that I'm not aware of? I'm mostly just > > looking for a security/convenience trade-off comparison. > > > > I have nearly no expereince with wireless and would like to come up > > with a plan/cost before I go buying stuff willy-nilly on my > mom's bill. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Mon Dec 29 14:19:41 2003 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question In-Reply-To: <4B412CBD2F57DE4D8163A1B4C0D9879961975F@ds67mail.na.bestbuy.com> Message-ID: <4B412CBD2F57DE4D8163A1B4C0D98799521A94@ds67mail.na.bestbuy.com> I'm not sure why you would want to put the AP in the DMZ of your firewall. Mine is behind the firewall. To be perfectly accurate, my AP and firewall are in the same unit (Linksys firewall/AP/switch), but all wireless (and non-wireless) clients are behind the firewall. This still allows me to put one machine in the DMZ if needed (e.g. playing some networked games). Is this setup not possible with stand-alone APs? Mike -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of The Wandering Dru Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 12:38 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question My mom is looking to go the wireless route in the near future for her laptop. I know a lot of you that use wireless put the AP on the DMZ of your firewall. My question is this, do you pinhole the firewall to allow certain services(ie, filesharing, printing, etc.) back into the LAN or do you just limit the AP to internet access? Or is there some other fancy way to allow these services that I'm not aware of? I'm mostly just looking for a security/convenience trade-off comparison. I have nearly no expereince with wireless and would like to come up with a plan/cost before I go buying stuff willy-nilly on my mom's bill. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Mon Dec 29 14:34:22 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question In-Reply-To: <4B412CBD2F57DE4D8163A1B4C0D98799521A94@ds67mail.na.bestbuy.com> Message-ID: I think it was suggested it be left in the DMZ to prevent wardrivers from (easily) getting at the systems behind your firewall. John > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Bresnahan > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:20 PM > To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question > > > I'm not sure why you would want to put the AP in the DMZ of > your firewall. Mine is behind the firewall. To be perfectly > accurate, my AP and firewall are in the same unit (Linksys > firewall/AP/switch), but all wireless (and > non-wireless) clients are behind the firewall. This still > allows me to put one machine in the DMZ if needed (e.g. > playing some networked games). Is this setup not possible > with stand-alone APs? > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On > Behalf Of The > Wandering Dru > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 12:38 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question > > > My mom is looking to go the wireless route in the near future > for her laptop. I know a lot of you that use wireless put > the AP on the DMZ of your firewall. > > My question is this, do you pinhole the firewall to allow > certain services(ie, filesharing, printing, etc.) back into > the LAN or do you just limit the AP to internet access? Or > is there some other fancy way to allow these services that > I'm not aware of? I'm mostly just looking for a > security/convenience trade-off comparison. > > I have nearly no expereince with wireless and would like to > come up with a plan/cost before I go buying stuff willy-nilly > on my mom's bill. > > -- > The Wandering Dru > http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such > > Get nifty > TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Mon Dec 29 15:05:14 2003 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question In-Reply-To: <4B412CBD2F57DE4D8163A1B4C0D98799619770@ds67mail.na.bestbuy.com> Message-ID: <4B412CBD2F57DE4D8163A1B4C0D9879951FA77@ds67mail.na.bestbuy.com> But at the same time aren't you leaving yourself open to attacks from the internet? Or maybe I misunderstand the term "DMZ". When I put a machine in the DMZ of my linksys firewall, it is essentially outside the firewall, i.e. it has no protection from the outside. Mike -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of John T. Hoffoss Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:34 PM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question I think it was suggested it be left in the DMZ to prevent wardrivers from (easily) getting at the systems behind your firewall. John _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Mon Dec 29 15:12:46 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question In-Reply-To: <4B412CBD2F57DE4D8163A1B4C0D98799521A94@ds67mail.na.bestbuy.com>; from mike@fruitioninc.com on Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 02:19:41PM -0600 References: <4B412CBD2F57DE4D8163A1B4C0D9879961975F@ds67mail.na.bestbuy.com> <4B412CBD2F57DE4D8163A1B4C0D98799521A94@ds67mail.na.bestbuy.com> Message-ID: <20031229151246.C9022@thinkunix.net> Mike Bresnahan wrote: > I'm not sure why you would want to put the AP in the DMZ of your firewall. > Mine is behind the firewall. To be perfectly accurate, my AP and firewall > are in the same unit (Linksys firewall/AP/switch), but all wireless (and > non-wireless) clients are behind the firewall. This still allows me to put > one machine in the DMZ if needed (e.g. playing some networked games). Is > this setup not possible with stand-alone APs? you might have a look at the IP addresses of boxes on your inside, wireless and that "DMZ" port. My bet is that they're all on the same network, eg 192.168.0.x if your Linksys is handing out IP's via DHCP. DMZ ports on these all-in-one boxes just mean everything is open to that port. If the box you plug into the DMZ port gets hacked, they now have access to your other machines if they're on the same network. Some of these all-in-one wonders have a nice feature to enable/disable bridging the wireless network to the inside network (sometimes call LAN). This is handy if you don't want to allow access to the other "inside" machines from the wireless clients. Technically, my wireless AP is also behind the firewall. The IP segment it is on (the DMZ network) is protected by the firewall. The advantage here is that the IP space is completely different between the DMZ and inside networks, and the firewall controls who has access to what. If I put a box in the DMZ and it gets hacked, the attacker only has access to other boxes in my DMZ, and does not have access to my inside network (unless they attack any pinholes I have open from DMZ to inside). -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Mon Dec 29 15:28:52 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Local Reasonable DVD+RW Media Suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <20031225002935.GI6711@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031229212852.GG735@techmonkeys.org> On Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 08:04:13AM -0600, Matt Murphy wrote: > > > DVD+* sucks unless you're only using it on your own system, if this is the > > case, good for you. > > How was that helpful or relevant to the question? It was also > ill-informed, IMO. Let me rephrase then. If you want to: a) Send the DVD to someone else, use DVD-R b) Play the DVD in a DVD player, use DVD-R c) Use the DVD in a DVD-ROM drive, use DVD-R There are, of course, some DVD players and DVD-ROM drives that support DVD+R media, but they're few and far between. None of the DVD players purchased by/for family/friends this year would read DVD+R, but they all happily read DVD-R/DVD-RW. The difference between DVD- and DVD+ is that hardware makers are making concious efforts to ensure that their devices will read DVD-, DVD+ support just happens occasionally as a side effect. > Granted I did sell off my DVD+R/W recorder, but > under very specific circumstances, not because it didn't work in 98% > of the players I tried. (even some that wouldn't take -R) I definitely > preferred the +R, as it didn't take 8 years to finalize. Funny, it takes about 60 seconds to finalize on my system. > > Matt -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Mon Dec 29 18:28:34 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200312300028.hBU0SYA14265@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: Want to Buy Subject: ATX Case I have a new motherboard/cpu/ram combination. I had planned to put these into an old (1999) Dell ATX case that I have, but it turns out that Dell uses a non-standard power supply and non-standard front panel (power button, etc.) connectors. Does anyone have an old ATX computer case lying around that they'd like to get rid of? If it's new enough to still be worth something I could offer up to $20. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Mon Dec 29 20:30:32 2003 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question In-Reply-To: <20031229151246.C9022@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: > you might have a look at the IP addresses of boxes on your inside, > wireless and that "DMZ" port. My bet is that they're all on the same > network, eg 192.168.0.x if your Linksys is handing out IP's via DHCP. > > DMZ ports on these all-in-one boxes just mean everything is open to that > port. If the box you plug into the DMZ port gets hacked, they now have > access to your other machines if they're on the same network. Yes, I was aware of how the DMZ on my linksys works. What I was missing is a) all DMZ's don't work like the one on my linksys and b) people are trying to protect themselves from wireless attacks by separating the wireless network from the rest of the network. Personally, I am much more afraid of attacks from the internet and I would find it too much of an inconvenience to separate my wireless network from the rest of my network. Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Mon Dec 29 21:38:42 2003 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? References: Message-ID: <000601c3ce86$6bf28020$1f02a8c0@zippy> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John T. Hoffoss" To: "'TCLUG Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 11:39 AM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? > To be a little more on topic, I guess I don't totally see how secure > computing will endanger Linux. At the very least, I see SCO's FUD doing > much greater harm in the long run than an extra chip on a motherboard. > Perhaps I don't know enough though... > > /me goes to read up on secure computing I have a problem when the proposed standard hardware configuration will *only* run software that has been signed by Microsoft, or a an authority *recognized* by Microsoft. Period. This would imply that there would be some process where any software written, say open source - including any OS such as Linux, has to be signed before it will run on your computer. What I have read suggests that the protection would be fairly comprehensive. If the hardware protection is to have any validity is should not be possible to make software that will bypass security at home - or there would not be much point in having the security in the first place. The possibility for Microsoft mischief boggles the imagination. As it is now, getting things signed is enough to drive a sane person around the bend. Imagine having to do this for every compile you make. Ask anybody who has to work with Verisign on a regular basis - does "Security set you free"? Go a step further and imagine this mess intruding into every aspect of program creation; every little home coder having to get permission from a central body before their program will be allowed to run on the "standard" computer. You see, if unauthorized software can be signed then we are right back to where we are now; viruses can still be written and distributed. I image that there would be some fairly restrictive policies put in place to control who can be a developer - perhaps some sort of government licensing or certification. Double plus ungood. At the risk of repeating myself: Beware of the Secure Computing Initiative! Mark Browne _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Dec 30 09:45:57 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? In-Reply-To: <000601c3ce86$6bf28020$1f02a8c0@zippy> References: <000601c3ce86$6bf28020$1f02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: <3FF19DB5.6000600@comcast.net> I'm with Mark on this one. I don't trust Micro$oft, so why sould I trust their "standard" of Secure Computing. I personally believe that this is just a way for Microsoft to "control" the computing market. They can then "enforce" their proprietary standards and the rest of the software world gets shut out, then their prices start climbing upward. They may sound innocent now, but I believe they have hidden motives, profit driven motives, not security motives. Mark Browne wrote: > I have a problem when the proposed standard hardware configuration will > *only* run software that has been signed by Microsoft, or a an authority > *recognized* by Microsoft. > > Period. > > This would imply that there would be some process where any software > written, say open source - including any OS such as Linux, has to be signed > before it will run on your computer. What I have read suggests that the > protection would be fairly comprehensive. If the hardware protection is to > have any validity is should not be possible to make software that will > bypass security at home - or there would not be much point in having the > security in the first place. > > The possibility for Microsoft mischief boggles the imagination. As it is > now, getting things signed is enough to drive a sane person around the bend. > Imagine having to do this for every compile you make. Ask anybody who has to > work with Verisign on a regular basis - does "Security set you free"? > > Go a step further and imagine this mess intruding into every aspect of > program creation; every little home coder having to get permission from a > central body before their program will be allowed to run on the "standard" > computer. You see, if unauthorized software can be signed then we are right > back to where we are now; viruses can still be written and distributed. I > image that there would be some fairly restrictive policies put in place to > control who can be a developer - perhaps some sort of government licensing > or certification. Double plus ungood. > > At the risk of repeating myself: Beware of the Secure Computing Initiative! > > Mark Browne -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From levay at visi.com Tue Dec 30 09:34:55 2003 From: levay at visi.com (levay@visi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Newbie Subject for help on Linux In-Reply-To: <000601c3ce86$6bf28020$1f02a8c0@zippy> References: <000601c3ce86$6bf28020$1f02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: <1072798495.3ff19b1f5f219@webmail.visi.com> Hello Linux users, I live in Washington county and have been using Redhat 8 on a Pentium II machine with 64 megs of Ram memory. It has USB 1.1 hub, also, and optical mouse and runs so much better than Windows for over a year!! Wahat I am looking for is a compatible separate detachable CD burner drive that works with RedHat Linux 8. I bought one for awhile from CompUSA (a Freecom one with USB 1.1/2.0 connection) but all it did was freeze my mouse up. Hardware detection seemed to have detected it but no drivers installed to handle it. Only disks on floppy and CD inside box was for Windows 98 on up. Contacting the maker was a non-starter. Anyone know of a good detachable CD burner for Linux that RedHat 8 will function properly with. Craig LeVay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Tue Dec 30 09:29:48 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Local Reasonable DVD+RW Media Suggestions In-Reply-To: <20031229212852.GG735@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: > a) Send the DVD to someone else, use DVD-R > b) Play the DVD in a DVD player, use DVD-R > c) Use the DVD in a DVD-ROM drive, use DVD-R Congrats, you completely missed the point. That point being that DVD+R works on a lot more players than you think. It sounds like you've swallowed the line from the DVD-R consortium hook line and sinker. DVD-R *is* more widely supported, but it's about a 2% difference. Please refrain from uninformed sweeping generalizations. Matthew what bothered me about your statement was that not only was it overgeneralized, uninformed, and might turn off people from a technology that is just fine, but you were putting down someone who already owned equipment. They're not trying to make a decision, they made it, and you telling them essentially "don't do that you're stupid and wrong" isn't going to change anything for them or help them find local DVD+RW media. > There are, of course, some DVD players and DVD-ROM drives that support > DVD+R media, but they're few and far between. None of the DVD players > purchased by/for family/friends this year would read DVD+R, but they > all happily read DVD-R/DVD-RW. And you know this because you tested DVD+R movies on all your friends' DVD players? How many is "all"? > The difference between DVD- and DVD+ is that hardware makers are making > concious efforts to ensure that their devices will read DVD-, DVD+ support > just happens occasionally as a side effect. And you know this because you work for Panasonic? > Funny, it takes about 60 seconds to finalize on my system. Recorder or burner? What speed? The DVD+R standard is much closer to the DVD video standard natively, so it's always much faster finalizing. The DVD-R standard needs more changes to work in players. I have a 2x DVD-R burner and had a DVD-R recorder (replaced my DVD+R recorder) and they both take forever to finalize. I guess I should qualify my statements a bit. I'm a VJ in my spare time. The worldwide VJ community wastes a lot of time knowing things like whether the DVDs we burn/record are going to work on players at the venue or each others' players. I loved my DVD+R recorder, and DVD+R worked in every player I have (4) and have used (3 different models) except the portables I use which are cheap chinese players, and designed for VCD/SVCD more than DVD. They may suck, but they are my primary road warriors, so I switched to DVD-R. On a side note, I know you're all geeks like me and up to the task technically, so if you like electronic music, and are looking for a new, experimental, up and coming artform, talk to me about trying your hand at VJing. (just like DJing, but with video) I book different VJs at the Quest nightclub every week, and I love helping new folks get into it. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Andrew at AZimmer.com Tue Dec 30 09:47:20 2003 From: Andrew at AZimmer.com (Andrew J Zimmer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question Message-ID: <5332020AE31E3143BC3CD6F4408C35B37B80@cilantro.AZimmer.local> I have not heard of an access point that has a wireless firewall. The Linksys WRTG54 runs Linux and has some hacks available so you could get iptables to firewall wireless NIC's. You could also setup a Linux box with a wireless NIC and firewall that. Most of your newer Access Point support Radius authentication. If a wireless client does not authenticate to the Access Point, the packets from that client should be dropped. Of course you would need a Radius server on the network. WPA should be fine for data encryption but IPSec or VPN server would be better. The best thing you can do is to try to limit wireless signal leaking from the house. No signal, no access. You can try to do this by putting the Access Point in a location that stifles the wireless signal and/or limiting the signal string by a weak antenna. I think the D-Link's have the weakest antenna's at 3 or 5 dBi. Firewall the laptop. Andrew ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org on behalf of The Wandering Dru Sent: Mon 12/29/2003 1:00 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question My mom is looking to go the wireless route in the near future for her laptop. I know a lot of you that use wireless put the AP on the DMZ of your firewall. My question is this, do you pinhole the firewall to allow certain services(ie, filesharing, printing, etc.) back into the LAN or do you just limit the AP to internet access? Or is there some other fancy way to allow these services that I'm not aware of? I'm mostly just looking for a security/convenience trade-off comparison. I have nearly no experience with wireless and would like to come up with a plan/cost before I go buying stuff willy-nilly on my mom's bill. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Ask > anybody who has to work with Verisign on a regular basis - does > "Security set you free"? Getting things signed now is not difficult. You buy a code signing certificate from VeriSign or Thawte and can sign whatever you want. I don't imagine that they'll do things any differently. There will likely also be test certificates, to let you run code on your local machine. It is extremely unlikely that the PC will go the route of the Xbox. And even that was cracked. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Tue Dec 30 16:17:27 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:13 2005 Subject: Opensource/linux and JVing was Re: [TCLUG] [OT] Local Reasonable DVD+RW Media Suggestions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:29:48 -0600, Matt Murphy wrote: >> a) Send the DVD to someone else, use DVD-R >> b) Play the DVD in a DVD player, use DVD-R >> c) Use the DVD in a DVD-ROM drive, use DVD-R > > Congrats, you completely missed the point. > On a side note, I know you're all geeks like me and up to the task > technically, so if you like electronic music, and are looking for a new, > experimental, up and coming artform, talk to me about trying your hand > at VJing. (just like DJing, but with video) I book different VJs at the > Quest nightclub every week, and I love helping new folks get into it. > > Matt > I'll bite! Sounds like fun to me.... is there plenty of open source / linux compatable software for vjing? what about hardware etc? A quick google on vj took me to : www.vjcentral.com - any other usful links? > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Tue Dec 30 10:24:16 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: Opensource/linux and VJing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'll bite! Sounds like fun to me.... is there plenty of open source / > linux compatable software for vjing? > what about hardware etc? > > A quick google on vj took me to : www.vjcentral.com - any other usful > links? You've hit the nail on the head there. VJforums.com is the sister-site, and those two should have most of what you're looking for. Sadly, there's not much for linux software, there's the effecTV project, which is basically an FX box, but not much else. There's some hardware that's linux based and proprietary, such as Edirol's DV7-PR, and a project that I'm working on that will most likely need to be linux, but again that's purpose-built hardware. Most of the VJ developers work on mac or windows. I don't want to burden the list with too much non-linux talk, and as there's not much application for linux in VJing, please send any more questions off-list, or just check out vjforums/vjcentral. I will want to solicit linux developers for my own project at some point, but I have more research to do before I'm ready to know what I'm looking for. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 30 10:24:19 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? In-Reply-To: <3FF19DB5.6000600@comcast.net> References: <000601c3ce86$6bf28020$1f02a8c0@zippy> <3FF19DB5.6000600@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FF1A6B3.6000202@visi.com> I'm with Mark and Todd. If "WE" don't have a choice in the way we make our own systems secure we will not have a choice of the vendor who supplies us with the software. I see this as a way for M$ to manipulate the market, they may not own the company making the hardware security solution. But the investment in the company may be large enough to force ideas in to the microcode. If they want a hardware solution why not use a dongle on a USB port, not a chip on the mother board. This way the security chip can follow the person who needs or wants it. Blanket solutions never seam to work as planned and tend to get in the way for people who don't need them. Just a thought... Sam. Todd Young wrote: > I'm with Mark on this one. I don't trust Micro$oft, so why sould I > trust their "standard" of Secure Computing. I personally believe that > this is just a way for Microsoft to "control" the computing market. > They can then "enforce" their proprietary standards and the rest of > the software world gets shut out, then their prices start climbing > upward. > > They may sound innocent now, but I believe they have hidden motives, > profit driven motives, not security motives. > > Mark Browne wrote: > >> I have a problem when the proposed standard hardware configuration will >> *only* run software that has been signed by Microsoft, or a an authority >> *recognized* by Microsoft. >> >> Period. >> >> This would imply that there would be some process where any software >> written, say open source - including any OS such as Linux, has to be >> signed >> before it will run on your computer. What I have read suggests that the >> protection would be fairly comprehensive. If the hardware protection >> is to >> have any validity is should not be possible to make software that will >> bypass security at home - or there would not be much point in having the >> security in the first place. >> >> The possibility for Microsoft mischief boggles the imagination. As it is >> now, getting things signed is enough to drive a sane person around >> the bend. >> Imagine having to do this for every compile you make. Ask anybody who >> has to >> work with Verisign on a regular basis - does "Security set you free"? >> >> Go a step further and imagine this mess intruding into every aspect of >> program creation; every little home coder having to get permission >> from a >> central body before their program will be allowed to run on the >> "standard" >> computer. You see, if unauthorized software can be signed then we are >> right >> back to where we are now; viruses can still be written and >> distributed. I >> image that there would be some fairly restrictive policies put in >> place to >> control who can be a developer - perhaps some sort of government >> licensing >> or certification. Double plus ungood. >> >> At the risk of repeating myself: Beware of the Secure Computing >> Initiative! >> >> Mark Browne > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Dec 30 10:24:34 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B559@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: David Phillips [mailto:david@acz.org] > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 10:10 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? > > It is extremely unlikely that the PC will go the route of the > Xbox. And > even that was cracked. > > -- > David Phillips > http://david.acz.org/ > Yes, but I think a lot of people enjoy thinking Microsoft is out to get them:) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris at alpha.twp-llc.com Tue Dec 30 10:26:58 2003 From: chris at alpha.twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Local DVD+RW source In-Reply-To: Message-ID: (Sorry for the top post. Pine wouldn't include the whole digest.) If I want to: a) Make backups, I use DVD+RW. b) Make DVD's to test layout and menus, I use DVD+RW. c) Make DVD's to keep for use in my Samsung DVD-611 old piece of crap, I use DVD+R. d) Make DVD's to keep for use in my Sony DVP-F21, I use DVD+R. DVD+RW takes about two seconds to erase. That's very nice when reusing media for backups. It also happens that I have a plus-only recorder. It works well enough that there's no reason to buy another. Sony does make an effort to ensure + media playback. I'm sure they are not the only company to do that, or anything else. It's true that DVD+R and RW will not work in my old ThinkPad 600X DVD drive, and my next DVD recorder drive will write to both media, but I'll be staying with the plus format. When I buy a DVD player, you can be sure it will play +R and +RW discs. I also recommend to all my friends and family that they ensure the capability too. Chris On Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 08:04:13AM -0600, Matt Murphy wrote: Let me rephrase then. If you want to: a) Send the DVD to someone else, use DVD-R b) Play the DVD in a DVD player, use DVD-R c) Use the DVD in a DVD-ROM drive, use DVD-R There are, of course, some DVD players and DVD-ROM drives that support DVD+R media, but they're few and far between. None of the DVD players purchased by/for family/friends this year would read DVD+R, but they all happily read DVD-R/DVD-RW. The difference between DVD- and DVD+ is that hardware makers are making concious efforts to ensure that their devices will read DVD-, DVD+ support just happens occasionally as a side effect. > Granted I did sell off my DVD+R/W recorder, but > under very specific circumstances, not because it didn't work in 98% > of the players I tried. (even some that wouldn't take -R) I definitely > preferred the +R, as it didn't take 8 years to finalize. Funny, it takes about 60 seconds to finalize on my system. > > Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Dec 30 10:37:54 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Opensource/linux and JVing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FF1A9E2.2020807@comcast.net> On a side note.... I don't understand why regular DJs still cart around cases full of CDs. Why not have one PC with a couple drives and rip all your main tunes to MP3 (or Ogg) and then use a software mixer to play them? I can't believe it's because of sound quality, the sound quality coming out of those "loud speakers" isn't that great. Geez, a small form factor PC with a flat panel, and a mouse/keyboard combo (oh, and a good sound card) would work great. Then all you would need is an amp and the speakers. Oh, and all the pretty lights. :-) Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:29:48 -0600, Matt Murphy > wrote: >> On a side note, I know you're all geeks like me and up to the task >> technically, so if you like electronic music, and are looking for a >> new, experimental, up and coming artform, talk to me about trying your >> hand at VJing. (just like DJing, but with video) I book different VJs >> at the Quest nightclub every week, and I love helping new folks get >> into it. >> >> Matt > > I'll bite! Sounds like fun to me.... is there plenty of open source / > linux compatable software for vjing? > what about hardware etc? > > A quick google on vj took me to : www.vjcentral.com - any other usful > links? -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Sk3tch at sk3tch.net Tue Dec 30 11:00:49 2003 From: Sk3tch at sk3tch.net (Sk3tch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Local DVD+RW source Message-ID: For me...DVD+ or DVD- is all the same for the most part...yes one may be more compatible than the other..but the main reason I personally prefer DVD- is the PRICE. Media is cheaper for DVD- (mainly because of the 1X media available, since DVD+ is 2.4X or higher). Although that gap is closing. The best price/performance media is RITEK (G03 or G04, at least for -) and I will also throw a recommendation in for www.supermediastore.com. I would only buy a couple DVD+/- discs locally, you save TONS of money by buying in 25/50/100/500 packs online. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2604 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031230/d2e89cab/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Tue Dec 30 11:19:03 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Opensource/linux and JVing In-Reply-To: <3FF1A9E2.2020807@comcast.net> References: <3FF1A9E2.2020807@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031230171903.GA1039@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 30 11:33:09 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Opensource/linux and JVing In-Reply-To: <20031230171903.GA1039@iucha.net> References: <3FF1A9E2.2020807@comcast.net> <20031230171903.GA1039@iucha.net> Message-ID: <3FF1B6D5.90003@visi.com> Creative Labs has some very cool "looking" external sound system whachamacallits. I've seen M$ based stuff for DJ work. If you call Mars or some other Music store they could give you names of manufacturers to look for. I bet most of the sound mixing done in professional studio's is UNIX based not M$ based. Sam Florin Iucha wrote: >On Tue, Dec 30, 2003 at 10:37:54AM -0600, Todd Young wrote: > > >>On a side note.... >> >>I don't understand why regular DJs still cart around cases full of CDs. >>Why not have one PC with a couple drives and rip all your main tunes to >>MP3 (or Ogg) and then use a software mixer to play them? I can't believe >>it's because of sound quality, the sound quality coming out of those >>"loud speakers" isn't that great. >> >>Geez, a small form factor PC with a flat panel, and a mouse/keyboard >>combo (oh, and a good sound card) would work great. Then all you would >>need is an amp and the speakers. Oh, and all the pretty lights. :-) >> >> > >It's called a laptop 8^) > >Of course you need a good audio output (which most laptops don't have) >but with USB2 and Firewire somebody surely came up with some external >fancy audio box, probably for Macs. > >florin > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Tue Dec 30 11:21:18 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Opensource/linux and JVing In-Reply-To: <3FF1A9E2.2020807@comcast.net> Message-ID: > I don't understand why regular DJs still cart around cases full of CDs. Several reasons - - you know the club has a cd player, cds are cheap - DJ can show up with cds and pop them in and go. no setup. - computers are expensive - computers crash - computers take time to set up - many DJs wouldn't know the first thing about the technical aspect - on a good soundsystem, an mp3 really does sound like crap, though a wav sounds just as good Techno DJs like vinyl because they can slow it down & speed it up with their fingers to beatmatch longer. The new CDJ-1000 lets them do that with CDs as well, and final scratch maps mp3s/wavs onto special vinyl that can be played on regular turntables. Some techno DJs like Richie Hawtin are using this to allow them to bring 50,000 records with them wherever they go, but it's still expensive, has to be set up on stage, and if your laptop dies, you just went from 50,000 tracks to zero. There's compelling arguments in both directions, and I think the debate will be ended when dedicated hardware that is cheap and easy and won't crash is built to mix wavs/mp3s for both "wedding" DJs and Techno/Club DJs. I'm hoping the same thing will happen for the VJ community, that's my current DIY project. =] Just to bring this on-topic, I could see embedded linux powering a lot of these types of "appliances". Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 30 11:23:36 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <200312300028.hBU0SYA14265@crusader.real-time.com> References: <200312300028.hBU0SYA14265@crusader.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3FF1B498.4080709@visi.com> I have an ATX case without the power supply you can have. It has power and reset buttons, power and HD lights. NO power supply. Sam. TCLUG Classifieds wrote: >New TCLUG Classified Ad > >Category: Computer > >Type of Ad: Want to Buy > >Subject: ATX Case > >I have a new motherboard/cpu/ram combination. I had planned to put these into an old (1999) Dell ATX case that I have, but it turns out that Dell uses a non-standard power supply and non-standard front panel (power button, etc.) connectors. > >Does anyone have an old ATX computer case lying around that they'd like to get rid of? If it's new enough to still be worth something I could offer up to $20. > >http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 30 11:47:06 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Opensource/linux and JVing In-Reply-To: <3FF1B6D5.90003@visi.com> References: <3FF1A9E2.2020807@comcast.net> <20031230171903.GA1039@iucha.net> <3FF1B6D5.90003@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FF1BA1A.5050900@visi.com> Or just turn the radio on. LOLROF. Samuel MacDonald wrote: > Creative Labs has some very cool "looking" external sound system > whachamacallits. I've seen M$ based stuff for DJ work. If you call > Mars or some other Music store they could give you names of > manufacturers to look for. > I bet most of the sound mixing done in professional studio's is UNIX > based not M$ based. > > Sam > > Florin Iucha wrote: > >> On Tue, Dec 30, 2003 at 10:37:54AM -0600, Todd Young wrote: >> >> >>> On a side note.... >>> >>> I don't understand why regular DJs still cart around cases full of >>> CDs. Why not have one PC with a couple drives and rip all your main >>> tunes to MP3 (or Ogg) and then use a software mixer to play them? I >>> can't believe it's because of sound quality, the sound quality >>> coming out of those "loud speakers" isn't that great. >>> >>> Geez, a small form factor PC with a flat panel, and a mouse/keyboard >>> combo (oh, and a good sound card) would work great. Then all you >>> would need is an amp and the speakers. Oh, and all the pretty >>> lights. :-) >>> >> >> >> It's called a laptop 8^) >> >> Of course you need a good audio output (which most laptops don't have) >> but with USB2 and Firewire somebody surely came up with some external >> fancy audio box, probably for Macs. >> >> florin >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Tue Dec 30 11:44:29 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Opensource/linux and JVing In-Reply-To: <3FF1B6D5.90003@visi.com> Message-ID: > I bet most of the sound mixing done in professional studio's is UNIX > based not M$ based. Depends what you mean by professional. If you mean actual artists who put out actual albums being professional, then unfortunately it's mostly PCs and macs running protools and cubase and such. If you mean $5000/hr recording studios and the people remixing madonna, well I know some of them are on PCs, (like moby) and there's a lot of expensive dedicated hardware, but I'm not sure what some of the more "professional" studios are using besides that. Remember, audio recording people have enough technical stuff to deal with without dealing with unix/linux as well. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Tue Dec 30 12:13:10 2003 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? References: <000601c3ce86$6bf28020$1f02a8c0@zippy> <002a01c3ceef$5ded8a60$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <003e01c3cf00$96d384e0$1e02a8c0@zippy> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Phillips" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? > Mark Browne writes: > > The possibility for Microsoft mischief boggles the imagination. As it > > is now, getting things signed is enough to drive a sane person around > > the bend. Imagine having to do this for every compile you make. Ask > > anybody who has to work with Verisign on a regular basis - does > > "Security set you free"? > > Getting things signed now is not difficult. You buy a code signing > certificate from VeriSign or Thawte and can sign whatever you want. I don't > imagine that they'll do things any differently. There will likely also be > test certificates, to let you run code on your local machine. > > It is extremely unlikely that the PC will go the route of the Xbox. And > even that was cracked. I don't think that this will work out as well as you indicate. So I download an ISO and put it on my computer for free. I start writing code. Life is good! Then I have to *buy* a code signing certificate. What will this cost? Who will regulate the issuance of these certificates? Will I have to have a fixed home address to be allowed to get a certificate? If not - can I use a stolen credit card to purchase and download a certificate from an internet cafe? How will this provide trusted security? The only way to prevent certificates from becoming the equivalent of post-it notes next to the screen is draconian controls. Will this be any more secure than passwords are now? Will every programming student have to buy one of these certificates to start their programming career? Will this be the same as a government issued license to program? Some of this seems to be at odds with the current nature of the open source environment. Mark Browne _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Tue Dec 30 11:52:45 2003 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B559@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <002f01c3cefd$bbc05e20$1e02a8c0@zippy> > Yes, but I think a lot of people enjoy thinking Microsoft is out to get > them:) Not exactly. I will give credit where credit is due. I like Word and use it daily. I wished for something like this in the seventies and in some ways - it is the fulfillment of my dreams of what a word processing program should be. When Microsoft competes by offering product that attracts customers by offering features and performance I am a supporter. When IBM used to rule the roost, and now Microsoft, the dominant player has an overwhelming say in how things work. This in itself is not a bad thing. The root of my problem is that these companies have made many decisions that were very good for the company, but were not very good for the customers. . I have been writing programs using Microsoft products from the CM/P days. I have also used competitors products and have been able to compare the relative merits of related products. I have had considerable time to think about this as I have fought with some of the bone headed things that Microsoft has done. I could give many examples. I am sure that most of the code wonks on the list can also provide similar examples. These problem seem to fall into two classes. 1) I can *almost* forgive rushing poorly thought out or incomplete products into users hands. I understand the dynamics of software production. This means that, like it or not, I am spending time and money to support these decisions. This is particularly painful when I find myself trying to explain the problems to paying customers. Several have asked "You have to be full of crap - how can a big company like Microsoft ship something like that" and I try to explaining that this just how things work. Some of these mistakes are very asymmetrical. There is a multiplication effect here; they make a decision to skip testing or release a known shoddy product and it has to be cured on millions of computers. Because of the scope of the installed base the bug (and its workaround) ends up becoming a permanent feature on the landscape. 2) What is harder is when my programs are breaking because interface problems inside Microsoft code. I feel like a conspiracy nut explaining that some problem was introduced to break competitors code. It sounds childish when I tell someone why are paying for man-days of labor for this reason. What is telling is that when you do contact Microsoft techs, they point you away from documented interfaces to undocumented one that *do* work. I have been told by former Microsofties that key libraries and API were deliberately obstificated to make things difficult for competitors. The overall pattern is that Microsoft has made bad technical decisions based of what is good for Microsoft, not what is good for the computer community and customers. Now they are making decisions that will, by default, change the computing substrate that Linux runs on. Plainly put; Microsoft is going to "solve" it's security problems by forcing the entire computing community to participate in their vision of secure computing. Given the track record - I don't trust Microsoft to do the right thing. Mark Browne _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Dec 30 12:40:40 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B55B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Browne [mailto:markdeb.browne@comcast.net] > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 11:53 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? > > > 1) I can *almost* forgive rushing poorly thought out or > incomplete products Linux has a lot of these, although, at least you don't pay to play. > computing. Given the track record - I don't trust Microsoft > to do the right > thing. I wouldn't trust them or any other single company. If this is to be done it needs to be industry driven by several companies. I don't think it will have any more traction than passport.net unless it comes from a large diverse group. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Sk3tch at sk3tch.net Tue Dec 30 13:18:28 2003 From: Sk3tch at sk3tch.net (Sk3tch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Local DVD+RW source Message-ID: Speaking of low cost DVDs (are we getting dangerously close to being on-topic) - my co-worker just picked me up 30 Verbatim DVD-Rs for $30 at Office Depot B&M (brick and mortar). The deal is buy one Verbatim 15 DVD-R spindle for $29.93 and get one free. They also have DVD+R spindles for the same price. The downtown location is out of + now, FYI (he got the last one). But they had plenty of -. Happy hunting. :) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2476 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031230/50d196cb/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Tue Dec 30 13:32:34 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B55B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B55B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <20031230193234.GB1039@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Dec 30 15:24:06 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OpenFacts Message-ID: <1072819445.2716.9.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ericebner at nsatel.net Tue Dec 30 15:50:03 2003 From: ericebner at nsatel.net (Eric Ebner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wi-Fi security question In-Reply-To: <3FF07477.1020006@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: I am reminded of the old acronym K.I.S.S. ... Odds are if you know very little about wireless, then I am sure you mother knows even less. The ideas and suggestions everyone has been tossing around in response to you message are good and noteworthy. However, the more complicated you make you set up for your mom, the more of a headache it will be for you and her. I have worked in networking and network security for over 10 years. I have seen some nasty hacks and compromised systems and have set up my own networks and attempted many of the "black arts" in order to learn how to recognize and defend against the enemy. When I was working for Cypher42 and we developed airsnort. It put the proof in the pudding that WI-FI and WEP were worthless. I use airsnort to this day to check my own network and to show clients and unknowing admins that they need to do more then WEP. When we released airsnort we did so with the knowledge that it would be used by sys admins but that it also allowed every 12 yr old with a laptop and the ability to follow directions the ability to sniff you WEP password and log on to you network. I live in a multi unit housing development (apartment) and run a wired and wireless network. I have a firewall between me and the id10ts out there (BTW, has anyone else noticed that the little Billy's and Sally's got a 'puter for X-mas and have been doing some X-mas break hacking?) My firewall is beefy and ready to do battle with the enemy. It drops a lot of packets and keeps adware and spyware at bay while blocking many other IP addresses i.e. I know no one in China and therefore do not need their subnets attempting Micro$oft hacks on my web connected systems. My home network security is simple and effective. I use XXX different layers to protect my data. 1] I use a firewall to protect my wired and wireless networks. 2] I only allow connections to my network only from MAC addresses I have explicitly allowed (yes I know you can fake a MAC, but this makes it a little harder for little Billy or Sally. 3] I enforce password based transactions on all systems. This took a little getting used to for my wife. (she hated it at first) I also follow good user habits like changing passwords more often than my smoke detector batteries. 4] I check my logs at least every other day. I used to import some of the log data into spreadsheets to look for patterns, but I have not recently because I need to remake the analyst spreadsheets (low level format of a supposedly backed up drive...) And probably the most important 5] I keep my software up to date by applying patches. My wireless access point is a Apple Airport Extreme. I have the ability with that AP to have it not broadcast the fact it is a wireless gateway (called a closed network if I remember correctly). Yes, this only cuts out some of the _potential_ war drivers. I also can turn the signal strength down. There is no reason for me to be able to connect to my network from across the court yard, therefore 35% signal is fine for reaching all of my apt. I can share ip addresses (DHCP) from the AP, but I cannot log usage so I do not use it. Also it does allow for RADIUS authentication if you so choose. It allows for separate access and admin passwords and up to a 128 bit WEP key. I run a unix based firewall and unix based DHCP that also only allows MAC address registered users connect. If I have important data to transmit or even store, I encrypt it or use an encrypted transmission medium (VPN or SSH). I run airsnort from time to time to see if there is anyone elese running a wireless net and have found nothing. I have spent all but two to three months of the last 5 years with a broadband flavor of network connection and many more years of constant dialup connections to my home network. I have had a few attempts to break into one or more of my systems but that is as far as it has ever got. So in closing, take all that has been said on this issue and digest it. IMHO if you went to Best Buy and bought a Linksys wireless access point and some form of firewall software for windows (i.e. Mcaffree makes a windows firewall). You ensured that your mother's systems were patched and kept up to date. You only allowed access by MAC of you mom's computers. And you checked on the setup from time to time she would most likely have no problems. Hope this helps. Eric Network Security For Hire On 12/29/03 12:37 PM, "The Wandering Dru" wrote: > My mom is looking to go the wireless route in the near future for her > laptop. I know a lot of you that use wireless put the AP on the DMZ of > your firewall. > > My question is this, do you pinhole the firewall to allow certain > services(ie, filesharing, printing, etc.) back into the LAN or do you > just limit the AP to internet access? Or is there some other fancy way > to allow these services that I'm not aware of? I'm mostly just looking > for a security/convenience trade-off comparison. > > I have nearly no expereince with wireless and would like to come up with > a plan/cost before I go buying stuff willy-nilly on my mom's bill. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Dec 30 15:50:36 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OpenFacts In-Reply-To: <1072819445.2716.9.camel@3po> References: <1072819445.2716.9.camel@3po> Message-ID: <1072821036.2716.11.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ericebner at nsatel.net Tue Dec 30 16:28:12 2003 From: ericebner at nsatel.net (Eric Ebner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Research opportunity -Somewhat OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have been wanting to do this for some time and the WI-FI postings rekindled my fire. Please forgive me if this is to off topic but this seems like the best forum to post this in... In the San Francisco Bay area there is a group of individuals that have assembled a WI-FI test network for future public safety use(http://www.barwn.org/). I am looking for any individuals that would be interested in researching a somewhat similar network here in the Twin Cities. If you have a background in *nix, networking, programming, or electronics your knowledge would help turn this idea into a reality. We would be forming up as a group under our own charter and if some of my ideas aren't totally hooky, developing a new way of transmitting data over wireless. This is to become an open source based project that has the potential of revolutionizing communications. If you have an interest, please email me directly at ericebner@nsatel.net. Send me a short summary of your background, experience, and availability so I can set up a general monthly meeting time and location to start discussion of this project. Eric Ebner _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 30 16:34:28 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? In-Reply-To: <20031230193234.GB1039@iucha.net> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B55B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> <20031230193234.GB1039@iucha.net> Message-ID: <3FF1FD74.5040102@visi.com> I agree 100% with Florin. Except the Lotus thing, Lotus is owned by ibm and I'm not to happy with ibm at the moment. I will never trust ibm again for any reason, I don't like Notes much any way. Security should be a personal choice, I'm sure some people like spam and pop-up adds. If you stop all of that *%$## $*#&% someone would be unhappy. ?-) 8 people have left the account that I was on, sense I left, not one has been replace by a body in this country. ibm cares about the bottom line and thats all. Talk about off shoring being customer driven all you want to, at the end of the day we loose jobs in this country. I was at a company in ST. Paul today most of the people doing the work are from central America and I have no problem with that. It's the jobs in China and India that hurt us. We get 0 tax revenue from the jobs in other countries. I bought a cell phone and service today, the sales person would not talk to 4 of the support people. She called back 5 times to get someone she could understand. She did this to make the transaction faster for me. I understand business wanting to have support cheaper. But in the end if the transaction leaves a bad impression on the customer. The business does not get return or add on business. Kind of like not leaving a tip... Sam Florin Iucha wrote: >On Tue, Dec 30, 2003 at 12:40:40PM -0600, rware@interplastic.com wrote: > > >>>computing. Given the track record - I don't trust Microsoft >>>to do the right >>>thing. >>> >>> >>I wouldn't trust them or any other single company. If this is to be done it >>needs to be industry driven by several companies. I don't think it will >> >> > >Lotus-Intel-Microsoft? > >Sony-Toshiba-IBM? > > > >>have any more traction than passport.net unless it comes from a large >>diverse group. >> >> > >I don't trust anybody to put my interests above their interests; heck, >I don't trust any company to put their long term interests above the >next couple of quarters "revenue" numbers... > >florin > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Tue Dec 30 17:10:32 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wierd rh8.0 behavior Message-ID: <3FF205E8.3020104@andersonfam.org> I have a Redhat 8.0 box that recently started asking for the root password twice when I "su -". Any ideas? -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoeff001 at umn.edu Tue Dec 30 17:48:06 2003 From: hoeff001 at umn.edu (Ed Hoeffner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wierd rh8.0 behavior In-Reply-To: <3FF205E8.3020104@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: Pretty old, so it probably has nothing to do with you, but a very old password gathering method was to put login somewhere, replacing it with a script which looked like login was running, trapped the password and did nefarious things with it, showed a failure and called the real, relocated login -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Erik Anderson Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 5:11 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] wierd rh8.0 behavior I have a Redhat 8.0 box that recently started asking for the root password twice when I "su -". Any ideas? -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoeff001 at umn.edu Tue Dec 30 17:47:36 2003 From: hoeff001 at umn.edu (Ed Hoeffner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wierd rh8.0 behavior In-Reply-To: <3FF205E8.3020104@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: Can you tell if the su file (/bin ?) has been changed? Years ago (I imagine people are too advanced for this now) a hacker would move login, replacing it with a script that did nothing more than look like login, trapping the password and doing something nefarious with it, show a login failure, and then call the real login to allow things to run normally. Probably has nothing to do with these days and times, but I thought I'd toss it out anyway. Ed -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Erik Anderson Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 5:11 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] wierd rh8.0 behavior I have a Redhat 8.0 box that recently started asking for the root password twice when I "su -". Any ideas? -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Dec 30 17:54:09 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Local Reasonable DVD+RW Media Suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <20031229212852.GG735@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031230235409.GX735@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Dec 30, 2003 at 09:29:48AM -0600, Matt Murphy wrote: > Congrats, you completely missed the point. That point being > that DVD+R works on a lot more players than you think. It sounds > like you've swallowed the line from the DVD-R consortium hook line > and sinker. DVD-R *is* more widely supported, but it's about a 2% > difference. Please refrain from uninformed sweeping generalizations. Here's what I base my observations on: I bought a Sony DRU-500a (DVD - and + R/RW drive, 4X) over a year ago, I though it would be great for christmas to convert friends and families old VHS tapes to DVD. So, I made two test DVD's, one DVD-R, one DVD+R, and tested them on random DVD players before I went through the trouble of converting any old tapes. I found that out of the mix of old and new DVD players, the ones my girlfriend and her sister got (different brands from different people) neither of them would play DVD+R, both played DVD-R. Their parents 2 year old high end DVD player would play both. My own 2 DVD players would both read the -R and -RW, but only one would read +R/+RW. At this point I began to worry about it if other peoples players would read any writable media at all, and burnt a copy of something I downloaded [...] to have various friends test, all but 2 of them reported that the DVD+R would not work in their systems In the end, it doesn't matter what percentage of all DVD players created support what formats, but what percentage of DVD players I'm likely to be using my discs in support what. They all supported DVD-R. [snip] > And you know this because you tested DVD+R movies on all your friends' DVD players? How many is "all"? I tested around 11 DVD players in total, a mix of panasonic, sony, regent, and the super cheap DVD players all the college kids have. [snip] > Recorder or burner? What speed? Burner, 4X > > The DVD+R standard is much closer to the DVD video standard natively, so > it's always much faster finalizing. The DVD-R standard needs more changes to > work in players. I have a 2x DVD-R burner and had a DVD-R recorder (replaced > my DVD+R recorder) and they both take forever to finalize. *shrug* maybe it's the software you're using. I don't accept that being "closer" has anything to do with it. You're referring CLV, CAV is what causes the incompatibilities. Anything that stops and starts (recorder) is going to use CAV, and is the least likely to be compatible. [snip] I do video capture/manipulation as a hobby because it's fun =) > Matt -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Tue Dec 30 18:19:47 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wierd rh8.0 behavior In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FF21623.40404@andersonfam.org> Ed Hoeffner wrote: > Can you tell if the su file (/bin ?) has been changed? Years ago (I imagine > people are too advanced for this now) a hacker would move login, replacing > it with a script that did nothing more than look like login, trapping the > password and doing something nefarious with it, show a login failure, and > then call the real login to allow things to run normally. > > Probably has nothing to do with these days and times, but I thought I'd toss > it out anyway. Good idea. I checked and the md5sum of /bin/su matches agains a box that's behaving correctly. -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Dec 30 18:38:20 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Local DVD+RW source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FF21A7C.5040309@comcast.net> I think it's Office Depot that also has a 100-pack of CDRs for $19.99 with a $20 mail in rebate (limit one per name/household). Must be purchased between 12/28 and 01/03. Sk3tch wrote: > Speaking of low cost DVDs (are we getting dangerously close to being on-topic) - my co-worker just picked me up 30 Verbatim DVD-Rs for $30 at Office Depot B&M (brick and mortar). > > The deal is buy one Verbatim 15 DVD-R spindle for $29.93 and get one free. They also have DVD+R spindles for the same price. > > The downtown location is out of + now, FYI (he got the last one). But they had plenty of -. > > Happy hunting. :) -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Tue Dec 30 18:55:36 2003 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? [OT] In-Reply-To: <20031230193234.GB1039@iucha.net> (florin@iucha.net) References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B55B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> <20031230193234.GB1039@iucha.net> Message-ID: <200312310055.hBV0taP07295@ecstasy.winternet.com> Florin wrote: >I don't trust any company to put their long term interests above the >next couple of quarters "revenue" numbers... For almost all companies I would agree, but one of the few companies that often puts their long term interests above their short term interests is Microsoft. Of course with $40+ billion in cash they can afford to invest in their own long term interests. As far as Secure Computing and the Secure Internet is concerned: In my opinion, the United States of America is probably the only country that will legally mandate Secure Computing and the Secure Internet (at least Microsoft's vision of these). Other countries have no interest in supporting Microsoft. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 30 23:09:04 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apple ][ GS Message-ID: <3FF259F0.6050100@visi.com> I recently acquired an Apple ][ GS, not just the CPU unit but the whole package. 12 inch RGB display 3.5 and 5.25 inch floppy drives Keyboard and Mouse Every book and warranty card Original System diskettes The Apple stickers in the original unopened plastic bag. It has a memory card in it, I think it's a 1 megabyte card. Even the Imagewriter test page is in the documentation. I have the printer that was purchased with it as well. This is a one of a kind find made special by what's on the front of the CPU unit. "Woz Limited Edition" It all works like it was new, I'll have to test the printer but I'm sure it works. For me it gained special interest when I saw the name of someone I use to work with. He worked for Computer Land back in the day. He was the tech that ran the setup-test on the unit. I can trace the original owner, the place it was sold, and the tech that did the setup-test. I think I was meant to be in the computer junk business. I just find this kind of history so amazing because of the whole package. I'm going to setup the whole thing, with the books, and take a picture. Way off topic I know but I thought it would be fun. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Tue Dec 30 23:08:14 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? [OT] In-Reply-To: <200312310055.hBV0taP07295@ecstasy.winternet.com> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B55B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> <20031230193234.GB1039@iucha.net> <200312310055.hBV0taP07295@ecstasy.winternet.com> Message-ID: <200312302308.14265.jack@jacku.com> On Tuesday 30 December 2003 06:55 pm, Ken Fuchs wrote: > Florin wrote: > >I don't trust any company to put their long term interests above the > >next couple of quarters "revenue" numbers... > > For almost all companies I would agree, but one of the few companies > that often puts their long term interests above their short term > interests is Microsoft. Of course with $40+ billion in cash they can > afford to invest in their own long term interests. > At this point Microsoft is concerned with protecting its cashflow. They've got $50+ billion in the bank at last report. That doesn't help the stock price if they are generating the revenues people are used to from them. > As far as Secure Computing and the Secure Internet is concerned: In my > opinion, the United States of America is probably the only country that > will legally mandate Secure Computing and the Secure Internet (at least > Microsoft's vision of these). Other countries have no interest in > supporting Microsoft. > Even in the US much of what I've read about "secure computing" has trouble. There's the potential for conflicts with various data privacy laws. One of the scenarios I read about (I apologize if this has been touched on, I missed the beginning of the thread) talks about receiving a file from a "blacklisted" copy of Office. Your copy of Office would refuse to open the file. The first time this happens in a legal, regulatory, or other "emergancy" situation you can bet there will be a lawsuit to undo the controls. > Sincerely, > > Ken Fuchs -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tsinks at isd.net Tue Dec 30 23:20:22 2003 From: tsinks at isd.net (Tim Sinks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wierd rh8.0 behavior References: <3FF21623.40404@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <016801c3cf5d$cde438a0$0300000a@net.tsinks> I would check the login files in /etc and the password files. If there is a dup line in the login files or some kind of control character in the password files or the profile / .profile this can create the second request. In old Unix os's there were sometimes problems with the login which showed up this way. If a change was made in the password recently or the profiles were altered, there may have been something done to one of the files which is telling it to reread/echo something or redo something. They can get lost in the process. Do an env check after the login - this may give a clue to the source. Check the trap and echos in the profile and may be doing an extra echo. How about another login? Change something in the login - password, $PATH, etc. You can set up a capture or output of the input and screen echos for the next log in. This may indicate where the extra line is coming from or when. Thanks, Tim Sinks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Anderson" To: ; "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] wierd rh8.0 behavior > Ed Hoeffner wrote: > > > Can you tell if the su file (/bin ?) has been changed? Years ago (I imagine > > people are too advanced for this now) a hacker would move login, replacing > > it with a script that did nothing more than look like login, trapping the > > password and doing something nefarious with it, show a login failure, and > > then call the real login to allow things to run normally. > > > > Probably has nothing to do with these days and times, but I thought I'd toss > > it out anyway. > > Good idea. I checked and the md5sum of /bin/su matches agains a box > that's behaving correctly. > > -Erik > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Tue Dec 30 23:35:55 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apple ][ GS In-Reply-To: <3FF259F0.6050100@visi.com> References: <3FF259F0.6050100@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031231053555.GD1039@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Dec 30 23:51:29 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apple ][ GS In-Reply-To: <20031231053555.GD1039@iucha.net> References: <3FF259F0.6050100@visi.com> <20031231053555.GD1039@iucha.net> Message-ID: <3FF263E1.2020204@visi.com> Facility, hmmm... That would be my basement :-) Bring Beer! Sam. Florin Iucha wrote: >On Tue, Dec 30, 2003 at 11:09:04PM -0600, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > > >>I recently acquired an Apple ][ GS, not just the CPU unit but the whole >>package. >> >> >> >[snip] > > >>I think I was meant to be in the computer junk business. I just find >>this kind of history so amazing because of the whole package. I'm >>going to setup the whole thing, with the books, and take a picture. >> >> > >I know the feeling; I was very happy one afternoon when I rummaged >through the junk left behind by a company that moved out from our >building... old scsi cables, unopened packages with compaq restore >disks or ancient hp-ux documentation or network cards... oh man, it >was great! > >I'll have to stop by your facility one day: mpc is not all that >accessible anymore, dexis is closed. > >Hey, you should have tclug visiting days 8^) > >Happy New year! >florin > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Dec 30 23:56:03 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apple ][ GS In-Reply-To: <3FF259F0.6050100@visi.com> References: <3FF259F0.6050100@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031231055603.GA735@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Dec 30, 2003 at 11:09:04PM -0600, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > Way off topic I know but I thought it would be fun. A very cool find, just chatter about running linux on it and it's on topic =) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Dec 31 00:28:15 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? [OT] References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B55B@ipserver2.interplastic.com><20031230193234.GB1039@iucha.net><200312310055.hBV0taP07295@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312302308.14265.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <000c01c3cf67$45c315e0$0201a8c0@brinstar> -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Ungerleider" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? [OT] On Tuesday 30 December 2003 06:55 pm, Ken Fuchs wrote: > Florin wrote: > >I don't trust any company to put their long term interests above the > >next couple of quarters "revenue" numbers... > > For almost all companies I would agree, but one of the few companies > that often puts their long term interests above their short term > interests is Microsoft. Of course with $40+ billion in cash they can > afford to invest in their own long term interests. > At this point Microsoft is concerned with protecting its cashflow. They've got $50+ billion in the bank at last report. That doesn't help the stock price if they are generating the revenues people are used to from them. > As far as Secure Computing and the Secure Internet is concerned: In my > opinion, the United States of America is probably the only country that > will legally mandate Secure Computing and the Secure Internet (at least > Microsoft's vision of these). Other countries have no interest in > supporting Microsoft. > Even in the US much of what I've read about "secure computing" has trouble. There's the potential for conflicts with various data privacy laws. One of the scenarios I read about (I apologize if this has been touched on, I missed the beginning of the thread) talks about receiving a file from a "blacklisted" copy of Office. Your copy of Office would refuse to open the file. The first time this happens in a legal, regulatory, or other "emergancy" situation you can bet there will be a lawsuit to undo the controls. > Sincerely, > > Ken Fuchs -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Dec 31 00:41:47 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? [OT] References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B55B@ipserver2.interplastic.com><20031230193234.GB1039@iucha.net><200312310055.hBV0taP07295@ecstasy.winternet.com> <200312302308.14265.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <002401c3cf69$3e000410$0201a8c0@brinstar> My apologies for the last message. Mail client issues. Jack Ungerleider writes: > One of the scenarios I read about (I apologize if this > has been touched on, I missed the beginning of the thread) talks > about receiving a file from a "blacklisted" copy of Office. Your copy > of Office would refuse to open the file. The first time this happens > in a legal, regulatory, or other "emergancy" situation you can bet > there will be a lawsuit to undo the controls. Ignore the fact that this is Microsoft. Doesn't that sound like a great way to protect your software from being illegally copied? This is not a privacy violation. If such protection were implemented, the end users of both copies of the software would have agreed when agreeing to the EULA. (Ignore the issue of whether or not EULAs are legal. The point is that the users understood how the software worked and agreed before using it.) The creator of a document uses an illegitimate copy with a unique ID number that ends up on the Microsoft blacklist. That ID number is saved in the document. When the viewer attempts to open the document, the software checks if the ID number is on the blacklist (this can be done in a way that does not compromise privacy) and refuses to open the document. The only "privacy" issue here is documents having a unique ID number identifying the software instance used to create it. Any other issues are wild speculation based on vaporware. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Wed Dec 31 08:37:53 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? [OT] In-Reply-To: <002401c3cf69$3e000410$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, David Phillips wrote: > My apologies for the last message. Mail client issues. > > Jack Ungerleider writes: > > One of the scenarios I read about (I apologize if this > > has been touched on, I missed the beginning of the thread) talks > > about receiving a file from a "blacklisted" copy of Office. Your copy > > of Office would refuse to open the file. The first time this happens > > in a legal, regulatory, or other "emergancy" situation you can bet > > there will be a lawsuit to undo the controls. > > Ignore the fact that this is Microsoft. Doesn't that sound like a great way > to protect your software from being illegally copied? > > This is not a privacy violation. If such protection were implemented, the > end users of both copies of the software would have agreed when agreeing to > the EULA. (Ignore the issue of whether or not EULAs are legal. The point > is that the users understood how the software worked and agreed before using > it.) Well, legally that's true, but the fact remains that I wouldn't consider the text within any EULA that I've read recently to be English. The words are all English, but I would consider it to be "legalese" because without a fair amount of legal training it is quite difficult to understand everything that is being stated. On top of that, are they actually going to tell you exactly what will or won't work if you're violating the EULA? Probably not; they'll probably just say that functionality will be broken somehow. On top of that, how will that deal with 3rd party editors? OpenOffice currently works for me to open, edit and save documents that people have created in MS Word format. But if there's a check in there for some unique number, you can bet your bacon that Microsoft will figure out what OO and other editors are using for their number, and make those act the same as pirated office versions. Sure, I'll still be able to open them, but I'll have to return them in a different format, or the recipient will nto be able to open it if they're running Word. I'm sure that most people on this list have experience with how people react when you do something like that to them... ------------- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Wed Dec 31 09:19:14 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? [OT] In-Reply-To: <002401c3cf69$3e000410$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <000601c3cfb1$73592950$160a0a0a@tctech.com> > When the viewer > attempts to open the document, the software checks if the ID > number is on the blacklist (this can be done in a way that > does not compromise privacy) and refuses to open the document. Wouldn't this require the user to be connected to the internet at all times? What do laptop users do? If there's an exception when you're not connected, couldn't you just yank the cable before opening the file? If there's a local cache of the list, couldn't it simply be deleted? Sounds like a bit waste of time and effort on the part of users to protect the profits of microsoft. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Wed Dec 31 09:21:54 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Secure Computing - The end of Linux? [OT] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701c3cfb1$d2835810$160a0a0a@tctech.com> > But if there's a > check in there for some unique number, you can bet your bacon > that Microsoft will figure out what OO and other editors are > using for their number, and make those act the same as > pirated office versions. That sounds more like what they're likely worried about. OpenOffice isn't really there yet, but everyone sees it's getting close enough, and Microsoft sees it too. They see people asking why they should bother spending $400 on office when what they need to do can be done on OO. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Wed Dec 31 09:37:48 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] VMWare deal Message-ID: Sorry for the semi-advertisement. Saw this: https://www.vmware.com/linuxuser/linuxuser_login.jsp and figured there might be one or two folks interested. $100 off VMWare Workstation (normally $299, $399 if you want a CD/box/Manual) And all for being a member of TCLUG! John _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Wed Dec 31 09:56:23 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apple ][ GS In-Reply-To: <20031231055603.GA735@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FF259F0.6050100@visi.com> <20031231055603.GA735@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031231155623.GE1039@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bgilbertson at stonel.com Wed Dec 31 10:11:50 2003 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apple ][ GS In-Reply-To: <3FF259F0.6050100@visi.com> References: <3FF259F0.6050100@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FF2F546.7030501@stonel.com> I did something similar a couple weeks ago. Cleaning out the basement, came across my first computer, a Tandy Color Computer. Still in original box with manuals and everything. Don't think I'd looked at it for 15 years. Purchased it about 1981. This was a couple years before IBM got into the PC business. Hooked it up and it fired right up. Loaded up some programs from cassette tape (also in box :). Had forgotten how nice it was to have < 5 seconds boot up time. uP is Motorola 6809 running at .89 Mhz. OS is Basic by a (at that time) unknown company called Microsoft. RAM is the full 65K addressable by the 16 bit bus. Was kind of fun :) A pix of one is here: http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/coco1/ Bob Samuel MacDonald wrote: > I recently acquired an Apple ][ GS, not just the CPU unit but the whole > package. > > 12 inch RGB display > 3.5 and 5.25 inch floppy drives > Keyboard and Mouse > Every book and warranty card > Original System diskettes > The Apple stickers in the original unopened plastic bag. > It has a memory card in it, I think it's a 1 megabyte card. > Even the Imagewriter test page is in the documentation. > I have the printer that was purchased with it as well. > > This is a one of a kind find made special by what's on the front of the > CPU unit. > "Woz Limited Edition" > It all works like it was new, I'll have to test the printer but I'm sure > it works. > > For me it gained special interest when I saw the name of someone I use > to work with. He worked for Computer Land back in the day. He was the > tech that ran the setup-test on the unit. I can trace the original > owner, the place it was sold, and the tech that did the setup-test. > > I think I was meant to be in the computer junk business. I just find > this kind of history so amazing because of the whole package. I'm > going to setup the whole thing, with the books, and take a picture. > > Way off topic I know but I thought it would be fun. > > Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Wed Dec 31 10:43:52 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apple ][ GS In-Reply-To: <3FF259F0.6050100@visi.com> References: <3FF259F0.6050100@visi.com> Message-ID: <200312311043.52901.jack@jacku.com> On Tuesday 30 December 2003 11:09 pm, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > I recently acquired an Apple ][ GS, not just the CPU unit but the whole > package. > Someday I want to open a computer museum. I had the good fortune when I got into this business 20 years ago to work with some really obscure hardware. If I can ever get my hands on some of it again I'd love to have them. Can't wait for the pictures! -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Dec 31 10:45:00 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apple ][ GS In-Reply-To: <3FF2F546.7030501@stonel.com> References: <3FF259F0.6050100@visi.com> <3FF2F546.7030501@stonel.com> Message-ID: <3FF2FD0C.9090102@visi.com> It's a CoCo! I had a CoCo! I learned to code basic on one, I played a game called Pyramid on it and another game, the name escapes me now. Did you use a TV as the display? Sam. Bob Gilbertson wrote: > I did something similar a couple weeks ago. Cleaning out the > basement, came across my first computer, a Tandy Color Computer. > Still in original box with > manuals and everything. Don't think I'd looked at it for 15 years. > Purchased it about 1981. This was a couple years before IBM got into the > PC business. Hooked it up and it fired right up. Loaded up some > programs from cassette tape (also in box :). Had forgotten how nice > it was to have > < 5 seconds boot up time. uP is Motorola 6809 running at .89 Mhz. OS > is Basic > by a (at that time) unknown company called Microsoft. RAM is the full > 65K > addressable by the 16 bit bus. > Was kind of fun :) > > A pix of one is here: http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/coco1/ > > Bob > > Samuel MacDonald wrote: > >> I recently acquired an Apple ][ GS, not just the CPU unit but the >> whole package. >> >> 12 inch RGB display >> 3.5 and 5.25 inch floppy drives >> Keyboard and Mouse >> Every book and warranty card >> Original System diskettes >> The Apple stickers in the original unopened plastic bag. >> It has a memory card in it, I think it's a 1 megabyte card. >> Even the Imagewriter test page is in the documentation. >> I have the printer that was purchased with it as well. >> >> This is a one of a kind find made special by what's on the front of >> the CPU unit. >> "Woz Limited Edition" >> It all works like it was new, I'll have to test the printer but I'm >> sure it works. >> >> For me it gained special interest when I saw the name of someone I >> use to work with. He worked for Computer Land back in the day. He was >> the tech that ran the setup-test on the unit. I can trace the >> original owner, the place it was sold, and the tech that did the >> setup-test. >> >> I think I was meant to be in the computer junk business. I just find >> this kind of history so amazing because of the whole package. I'm >> going to setup the whole thing, with the books, and take a picture. >> >> Way off topic I know but I thought it would be fun. >> >> Sam. > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Wed Dec 31 10:45:49 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apple ][ GS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: FYI, a couple of years ago, a friend of mine developed a FLASH card reader for the Apple ][e. You can boot from it, and it behaves just like a hard drive. It works on the GS as well. I wrote the ProDOS device driver (in good ol' 6502 assembler) for the ][e version, and one of the GS developers wrote the GS driver so you can have larger "partitions" on a big flash card. (8-bit ProDOS has a maximum volume size of 32MB.) My friend's wife is a professional technical writer, so it even comes with a good manual in the style of old Apple hardware, with a lot of technical information. (And I just read that there's an Apple /// driver.) Anyway, if you really want to learn more, or buy a card, see his web page here: http://www.dreher.net/?s=projects/CFforAppleII&c=projects/CFforAppleII/main.php I have no financial interest in the project. -- Chris Schumann, Partner Third Wave Partnership, LLC Office 612-920-4364 722 W 66 St, PMB 302 Fax 612-677-3003 Minneapolis, MN 55423 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Wed Dec 31 11:22:40 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dependency hell In-Reply-To: <20031215175915.7292ea9a.william.layer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001001c3cfc2$b1867550$160a0a0a@tctech.com> folks, I'm trying to get ODBCConfig going, which is a KDE program, so I can connect to our MSSQL server from php. I run gnome, and after installing the unixODBCConfig rpm, I get nothing. So I think I'll try installing KDE, but I get an error message that it's missing like 10 different dependencies. It took me an hour to resolve just the first one, and one of them is xinitd which is obviously already installed and working. Am I doing something wrong? Do real people actually deal with this crap just to get something installed??? Is there an easier way to solve dependency problems? (isn't the stupid installer supposed to be able to do that?) Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Dec 31 11:58:57 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dependency hell Message-ID: Yum (http://linux.duke.edu/projects/yum/) and Grab (http://www.runlevelzero.net/greg/grab/) can resolve dependencies. Apt is available too. You just need a repository to get packages from. I have a site that explains how to make one for Grab (http://www.jdmz.net/grab/index.html) and I am going to make one for Yum too. >>> "Matt Murphy" 12/31/03 11:22AM >>> folks, I'm trying to get ODBCConfig going, which is a KDE program, so I can connect to our MSSQL server from php. I run gnome, and after installing the unixODBCConfig rpm, I get nothing. So I think I'll try installing KDE, but I get an error message that it's missing like 10 different dependencies. It took me an hour to resolve just the first one, and one of them is xinitd which is obviously already installed and working. Am I doing something wrong? Do real people actually deal with this crap just to get something installed??? Is there an easier way to solve dependency problems? (isn't the stupid installer supposed to be able to do that?) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Dec 31 12:07:41 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dependency hell Message-ID: Nope. They are for RPM based distributions in general. The instructions I made for making a repository are for RHL9 specifically. >>> "Matt Murphy" 12/31/03 11:54AM >>> I apologize, I should've specified I'm running redhat 9. Aren't those both for SuSe? Matt > Yum (http://linux.duke.edu/projects/yum/) and > Grab (http://www.runlevelzero.net/greg/grab/) > can resolve dependencies. Apt is available too. > You just need a repository to get packages from. > > I have a site that explains how to make one for > Grab (http://www.jdmz.net/grab/index.html) and > I am going to make one for Yum too. > > >>> "Matt Murphy" 12/31/03 11:22AM >>> > folks, I'm trying to get ODBCConfig going, which is a > KDE program, so I can connect to our MSSQL server from php. I > run gnome, and after installing the unixODBCConfig rpm, I get > nothing. So I think I'll try installing KDE, but I get an > error message that it's missing like 10 different > dependencies. It took me an hour to resolve just the first > one, and one of them is xinitd which is obviously already > installed and working. Am I doing something wrong? Do real > people actually deal with this crap just to get something > installed??? Is there an easier way to solve dependency > problems? (isn't the stupid installer supposed to be able to > do that?) > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bgilbertson at stonel.com Wed Dec 31 12:13:19 2003 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apple ][ GS In-Reply-To: <3FF2FD0C.9090102@visi.com> References: <3FF259F0.6050100@visi.com> <3FF2F546.7030501@stonel.com> <3FF2FD0C.9090102@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FF311BF.9040004@stonel.com> Yes, I used a color TV as display-weren't any color monitors at that time :) I learned Basic on it as well. I also tried my hand at a little assembler. Motorola was nice for this. They kept the same opcodes across uP's as much as possible. They also used memory mapped I/O which I liked better than the interrupt driven I/O Intel used. Could use POKE to put hex into memory then GOSUB to run routine. I never purchased the floppy or hard drive controllers, just used audio cassette tape to save programs and data. I think my Rainbow magazines have all been thrown. Wonder if anyone has tried port Linux kernel to the CoCo? heh! Bob Samuel MacDonald wrote: > It's a CoCo! > > I had a CoCo! I learned to code basic on one, I played a game called > Pyramid on it and another game, the name escapes me now. Did you use a > TV as the display? > > Sam. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Wed Dec 31 12:12:53 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dependency hell In-Reply-To: <001001c3cfc2$b1867550$160a0a0a@tctech.com> References: <20031215175915.7292ea9a.william.layer@comcast.net> <001001c3cfc2$b1867550$160a0a0a@tctech.com> Message-ID: <20031231121253.6e84ae31@rachmaninoff.trutwins.homeip.net> On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:22:40 -0600 "Matt Murphy" wrote: > > folks, I'm trying to get ODBCConfig going, which is a KDE > program, so I can connect to our MSSQL server from php. I run gnome, and > after installing the unixODBCConfig rpm, I get nothing. So I think I'll > try installing KDE, but I get an error message that it's missing like 10 > different dependencies. It took me an hour to resolve just the first > one, and one of them is xinitd which is obviously already installed and > working. Am I doing something wrong? Do real people actually deal with > this crap just to get something installed??? Is there an easier way to > solve dependency problems? (isn't the stupid installer supposed to be > able to do that?) Yeah, and it's even worse than that, this morning I had to deal with Gnome 1 vs Gnome 2 dependancy hell. It wasn't too bad, but Slack 9.1 doesn't come with any Gnome 1 support (unless I missed something) and today's LJ email had a cool Gnome terminal replacement (http://multignometerm.sourceforge.net/) but it requires a couple Gnome 1.x programs and libs. I would think that for this KDE app you would just need kdelibs and qt? Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Andrew at AZimmer.com Wed Dec 31 12:19:56 2003 From: Andrew at AZimmer.com (Andrew J Zimmer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Research opportunity -Somewhat OT Message-ID: <5332020AE31E3143BC3CD6F4408C35B37B81@cilantro.AZimmer.local> Check out the Twin Cities Wireless User Group, www.tcwug.org. The group is not that large but does have some pretty knowledgeable people. The group is currently working on wireless Internet in Loring park. Andrew. ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org on behalf of Eric Ebner Sent: Tue 12/30/2003 4:45 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Research opportunity -Somewhat OT I have been wanting to do this for some time and the WI-FI postings rekindled my fire. Please forgive me if this is to off topic but this seems like the best forum to post this in... In the San Francisco Bay area there is a group of individuals that have assembled a WI-FI test network for future public safety use(http://www.barwn.org/). I am looking for any individuals that would be interested in researching a somewhat similar network here in the Twin Cities. If you have a background in *nix, networking, programming, or electronics your knowledge would help turn this idea into a reality. We would be forming up as a group under our own charter and if some of my ideas aren't totally hooky, developing a new way of transmitting data over wireless. This is to become an open source based project that has the potential of revolutionizing communications. If you have an interest, please email me directly at ericebner@nsatel.net. Send me a short summary of your background, experience, and availability so I can set up a general monthly meeting time and location to start discussion of this project. Eric Ebner _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4814 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031231/8d55a901/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Dec 31 12:22:58 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] VMWare deal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1426.156.99.116.45.1072894978.squirrel@athena.cloudnet.com> > Sorry for the semi-advertisement. Saw this: > https://www.vmware.com/linuxuser/linuxuser_login.jsp and figured there > might be one or two folks interested. $100 off VMWare Workstation > (normally $299, $399 if you want a CD/box/Manual) VMware is slowly assembling a LUG program. Hopefully we'll see some more stuff like this coming down the pike. I was talking to a sales droid about their new LUG program, and I guess they're kicking themselves for not starting one sooner. If you haven't already, you really need to check out VMotion. It's their latest product and it is absolutely UNBELIEVEABLE. If you have a cluster of boxen connected to a SAN, you can move a server from one box to another ON THE FLY. The users notice a little bit of sluggishness while it's sync'ing up, but all services remain available. Now that they're being acquired by EMC, you may soon see hardware clusters coming to market powered by Vmware. This now concludes my off topic plug for VMware. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Dec 31 12:56:53 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] VMWare deal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031231185653.GB14803@fandre.com> Yea, I actually got something on this a couple of weeks ago. I will dig it up and pass it along to the group. -- Clay On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > Sorry for the semi-advertisement. Saw this: > https://www.vmware.com/linuxuser/linuxuser_login.jsp and figured there > might be one or two folks interested. $100 off VMWare Workstation > (normally $299, $399 if you want a CD/box/Manual) > > And all for being a member of TCLUG! > > John > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Wed Dec 31 13:09:06 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dependency hell In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Nope. They are for RPM based distributions > in general. The instructions I made for making > a repository are for RHL9 specifically. > > >>> "Matt Murphy" 12/31/03 11:54AM >>> > > I apologize, I should've specified I'm running redhat 9. Aren't > those both for SuSe? apt4rpm is also a pretty good option for RH9 http://apt4rpm.sourceforge.net/ ------------- Justin Kremer "One likes to believe in the freedom of music, But glittering prizes and endless compromises Shatter the illusion of integrity." - Rush "The Spirit of Radio" (1980) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Dec 31 13:19:06 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apple ][ GS In-Reply-To: <3FF2FD0C.9090102@visi.com> References: <3FF259F0.6050100@visi.com> <3FF2F546.7030501@stonel.com> <3FF2FD0C.9090102@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031231191906.GC14803@fandre.com> On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, Samuel MacDonald wrote: > It's a CoCo! > > I had a CoCo! I learned to code basic on one, I played a game called > Pyramid on it and another game, the name escapes me now. Did you use a > TV as the display? > When I was a kid I remember going to CoCoMUG meetings. (Color Computer Milwaukee Users Group) Those were the days. Dialing up to BBSes on my 300Baud modem. Anyone remember RIP? My Dad was so sick of me using his computer that he bought me a MC-10? That was a awesome system. 4k of RAM, expandable to 16k with an add-on pack. http://www.geocities.com/simonsouth/mc10/ Last time I was home, I found 3 CoCo systems, the MC-10, and lots of 5 1/4 disks. I may need to fire those up for old time sake. Maybe I'll set one up as a Linux console terminal or something. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Dec 31 13:25:08 2003 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: apt4rpm (was: RE: [TCLUG] Dependency hell) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, Justin Kremer wrote: > apt4rpm is also a pretty good option for RH9 > http://apt4rpm.sourceforge.net/ Speaking of apt4rpm... I just installed it on a RH6.2 machine last night. I'm trying to get ext3 on that box, and while the kernel supports it, tune2fs, e2fsck and mount do not. I can't seem to find RPMs for newer versions that DO support them, and trying to manually upgrade to stuff from later versions of RH is scary... Has anyone used apt4rpm to upgrade Red Hat releases? That is, change the '6.2' in /etc/apt/sources.list to, say, '7.0', then '7.1', then '7.2' and gradually up to 9.0?... -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Dec 31 13:18:21 2003 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] CPU 'incidents' Message-ID: Hey, Recently I've been getting this message on all terminals on one of my machines: Message from syslogd@Rooster at Tue Dec 30 07:01:34 2003 ... Rooster kernel: Bank 1: 9400000000000151 Message from syslogd@Rooster at Tue Dec 30 07:01:34 2003 ... Rooster kernel: MCE: The hardware reports a non fatal, correctable incident occurred on CPU 0. Anyone know how to tell, uh, WHAT exactly this non fatal incident is? I'd think it was a heat issue but this isn't my biggest CPU, has a nice fan on it and I keep it pretty darn cold in here. -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Wed Dec 31 13:49:14 2003 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: apt4rpm (was: RE: [TCLUG] Dependency hell) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200312311349.14558.barnabas@knicknack.net> I did try to upgrade from 9 to Fedora Core 1 with apt4rpm and it didn't go well. I did have a fair number of non-freshrpm packages installed (I used freshrpm.net apt repository). HTH, Eric On Wednesday 31 December 2003 13:25, Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, Justin Kremer wrote: > > apt4rpm is also a pretty good option for RH9 > > http://apt4rpm.sourceforge.net/ > > Speaking of apt4rpm... I just installed it on a RH6.2 machine last night. > I'm trying to get ext3 on that box, and while the kernel supports it, > tune2fs, e2fsck and mount do not. I can't seem to find RPMs for newer > versions that DO support them, and trying to manually upgrade to stuff > from later versions of RH is scary... > > Has anyone used apt4rpm to upgrade Red Hat releases? That is, change the > '6.2' in /etc/apt/sources.list to, say, '7.0', then '7.1', then '7.2' and > gradually up to 9.0?... > > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Wed Dec 31 14:15:44 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apple ][ GS In-Reply-To: <20031231191906.GC14803@fandre.com> Message-ID: My first system went up in a huge puff of smoke.... Tandy 1000EX with 300 baud modem, I expanded the memory to it's capacity of 640K and added a second 5.25 floppy drive. I used it for years, until I turned it on one day and smoke came out of the base unit.... ______________________ Shawn _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Dec 31 14:36:22 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dependency hell Message-ID: I haven't used it, but as long as it doesn't step on grab or yum, I may give it a try. I have (hastily converted and probably error filled) yum repository instructions here: http://www.jdmz.net/yum/ >>> kremer@ringworld.org 12/31/03 01:09PM >>> apt4rpm is also a pretty good option for RH9 http://apt4rpm.sourceforge.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Dec 31 15:13:25 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dependency hell In-Reply-To: <001001c3cfc2$b1867550$160a0a0a@tctech.com> References: <20031215175915.7292ea9a.william.layer@comcast.net> <001001c3cfc2$b1867550$160a0a0a@tctech.com> Message-ID: <20031231211325.GB735@techmonkeys.org> There is no such thing as dependancy hell, you're simply doing it wrong. http://apt.freshrpms.net Do you manually run dpkg to install KDE on Debian? No, you use a package manager. RedHat also comes with an excellent package manager (GUI), or you can use up2date (CLI). On Wed, Dec 31, 2003 at 11:22:40AM -0600, Matt Murphy wrote: > > folks, I'm trying to get ODBCConfig going, which is a KDE > program, so I can connect to our MSSQL server from php. I run gnome, and > after installing the unixODBCConfig rpm, I get nothing. So I think I'll > try installing KDE, but I get an error message that it's missing like 10 > different dependencies. It took me an hour to resolve just the first > one, and one of them is xinitd which is obviously already installed and > working. Am I doing something wrong? Do real people actually deal with > this crap just to get something installed??? Is there an easier way to > solve dependency problems? (isn't the stupid installer supposed to be > able to do that?) > > Matt > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Wed Dec 31 15:34:09 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (bradyh@bitstream.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] code formatting Message-ID: <1072906449.3ff340d173cc2@mail.bitstream.net> We're having a code formatting war in the office today and so far I'm on the losing side but I thought I'd get your vote: Is it: A) if (x == 1) {... or B) if( x == 1 ){... C) other Thanks, Brady PS: Wasn't sure if this should be marked [OT] or not so you can vote on that too. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sraun at fireopal.org Wed Dec 31 15:54:39 2003 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] code formatting In-Reply-To: <1072906449.3ff340d173cc2@mail.bitstream.net> References: <1072906449.3ff340d173cc2@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <20031231215439.GB20849@fireopal.org> On Wed, Dec 31, 2003 at 03:34:09PM -0600, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > We're having a code formatting war in the office today and so far I'm on the > losing side but I thought I'd get your vote: > > Is it: > > A) if (x == 1) {... > > or > > B) if( x == 1 ){... > > C) other Personally, I find A to be most legible. > PS: Wasn't sure if this should be marked [OT] or not so you can vote > on that too. I would have - but I'm not certain why. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Dec 31 16:14:50 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] code formatting In-Reply-To: <1072906449.3ff340d173cc2@mail.bitstream.net> References: <1072906449.3ff340d173cc2@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <20031231221450.GC735@techmonkeys.org> Most definitely A, or just run it through indent -kr On Wed, Dec 31, 2003 at 03:34:09PM -0600, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > We're having a code formatting war in the office today and so far I'm on the > losing side but I thought I'd get your vote: > > Is it: > > A) if (x == 1) {... > > or > > B) if( x == 1 ){... -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Dec 31 16:25:16 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] code formatting Message-ID: I choose A or C, C being: C) if ( x == 1 ) {... for readabilities sake. Don't be stingey with the whitespace! ;-) It would be 'right on' topic on tclug-devel. :-) >>> sraun@fireopal.org 12/31/03 03:54PM >>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2003 at 03:34:09PM -0600, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > We're having a code formatting war in the office today and so far I'm on the > losing side but I thought I'd get your vote: > Is it: > A) if (x == 1) {... > or > B) if( x == 1 ){... > C) other Personally, I find A to be most legible. > PS: Wasn't sure if this should be marked [OT] or not so you can vote > on that too. I would have - but I'm not certain why. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Dec 31 16:24:33 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] code formatting In-Reply-To: <1072906449.3ff340d173cc2@mail.bitstream.net> References: <1072906449.3ff340d173cc2@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <20031231222433.GA2709@mail.el-swifto.com> On Wed, Dec 31, 2003 at 03:34:09PM -0600, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > We're having a code formatting war in the office today and so far I'm on the > losing side but I thought I'd get your vote: > > Is it: > > A) if (x == 1) {... > > or > > B) if( x == 1 ){... > > C) other > I'd go with A. But for large code blocks I prefer: if (x == 1) { ... } With 4-space indents, too. year++, JT -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Wed Dec 31 16:53:02 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] CPU 'incidents' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FF3534E.6020303@eworld3.net> It can't hurt to blow all the dust out and maybe re-seat the RAM & CPU. If air isn't flowing through the case then you better have the computer in a freezer. Ok, that may not be such a good idea. I had a cheapo fan that stopped intermittently and would cause the system to hang or boot. Usually when you looked at the fan it was spinning so for a while I could not figure out what was wrong and just ran with the case open. Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > Recently I've been getting this message on all terminals on one of my > machines: > > Message from syslogd@Rooster at Tue Dec 30 07:01:34 2003 ... > Rooster kernel: Bank 1: 9400000000000151 > > Message from syslogd@Rooster at Tue Dec 30 07:01:34 2003 ... > Rooster kernel: MCE: The hardware reports a non fatal, correctable > incident occurred on CPU 0. > > > Anyone know how to tell, uh, WHAT exactly this non fatal incident is? I'd > think it was a heat issue but this isn't my biggest CPU, has a nice fan on > it and I keep it pretty darn cold in here. > > > -Yaron > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Wed Dec 31 17:04:32 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dialup mysteriously stopped working In-Reply-To: <1072705309.94.15.camel@unixws1> References: <200312281836.AA1393033412@mail.eworld3.net> <1072705309.94.15.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <3FF35600.1010802@eworld3.net> Thanks Adam, I figured this out. I had added a default route for IPCop and so I guess kppp would not add it's default route entry when one already existed. The frustrating thing was that kppp did not complain about not being able to add the entries and that's made the problem harder to diagnose. What I don't remember is how I added the route entry for IPCop. I thought that these had to be added into a file so they would be set when the system boots. I thought that I just added the IPCop route from the command line and so it should have disappeared when the system booted. Adam Maloney wrote: > Sounds like PPP isn't setting your default route to be the PPP > interface. > > After you connect, try adding a default route by hand, pointing to the > IP of PPP0, and see if you can get out then. > > On Sun, 2003-12-28 at 18:36, rick wrote: > >>It looks like kppp establishes a ppp connection to my ISP but I am not >>able to actually use the connection. I am able to ping my Windoze box >>and my IPCop box but when I try to ping my ISP's DNS using it's IP address I get: "From 192.168.1.3 icmp_seq=1 Destination Net Unreachable". That's strange, 192.168.1.3 is the IP of my IPCop box but I am pinging from my Linux box whose IP is 192.168.1.1 >> >>ifconfig shows that ppp0 gets created after the ppp connection is made >>to my ISP and ps shows that pppd is running. >> >>I know that it's not a problem with my >>ISP because I can use my Windoze box to connect, that's how I can post >>this message. >> >>Since I have not been able to get IPCop working I am still running >>shorewall on my Linux box. I have tried shutting it down but that does >>not help. >> >>Any ideas? -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Dec 31 19:57:53 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200401010157.i011vrJ29183@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: Free Computers Hi, I have the following computers that I want to get rid of and I’m giving them away for free. I live in the Northwest suburbs. I you want any or all of them please e-mail me at “free at rob dot zombietech dot com” You must pick up the stuff from my house. I could possibly deliver for a small fee. None of the machines have any operating systems loaded and they come with no support. You need to supply your own mouse, keyboard and power cords. I know all the machines work as I have wiped the drives clean. They might run Linux as a firewall/ router ok. Here is what I have: 14” monitor Dell Power Edge 2200 P II 233 MHz 384 MB Ram On board Scsi Cd-Rom / Floppy No HDD and also missing fan Pentium Pro 200MHz 128 MB Ram (2) 2 GB HDD’s Floppy / cd-rom On board sound Compaq Deskpro 486 66MHz 64 MB Ram 500 MB Hdd cd rom/ 5/1/4 inch floppy/ 1.44 mb floppy nic 10 mb nic It also has some kind of weird sound card Compaq Deskpro 486 Dx4 100 MHz 1.2 GB Hdd cd-rom/ floppy/ nic onboard sound 32 mb ram Zeos 486 66 MHz 28 mb ram cd-rom/sound Modem Bad floppy No HDD http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Dec 31 21:20:42 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dependency hell References: <001001c3cfc2$b1867550$160a0a0a@tctech.com> Message-ID: <006301c3d016$3cf4a5f0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Matt Murphy writes: > folks, I'm trying to get ODBCConfig going, which is a KDE > program, so I can connect to our MSSQL server from php. Why use ODBC? The native interface should provide better performance and more functionality: http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.mssql.php > Do real people actually deal with this crap just to > get something installed??? I'm sure some people do. Smart people choose a package management system that doesn't have these problems. > Is there an easier way to solve dependency problems? > (isn't the stupid installer supposed to be able to do that?) Yes. I use Debian and FreeBSD ports, neither of which have these problems. And as other people have pointed out, recent versions of RPM based systems have good package managers that solve these problems for you. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Dec 31 21:35:25 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <200401010157.i011vrJ29183@crusader.real-time.com> References: <200401010157.i011vrJ29183@crusader.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3FF3957D.6030604@visi.com> Is the Power Edge a dual processor? Sam. TCLUG Classifieds wrote: >New TCLUG Classified Ad > >Category: Computer > >Type of Ad: For Free > >Subject: Free Computers > >Hi, > >I have the following computers that I want to get rid of and I?m giving them away for free. I live in the Northwest suburbs. I you want any or all of them please e-mail me at ?free at rob dot zombietech dot com? You must pick up the stuff from my house. I could possibly deliver for a small fee. None of the machines have any operating systems loaded and they come with no support. You need to supply your own mouse, keyboard and power cords. I know all the machines work as I have wiped the drives clean. They might run Linux as a firewall/ router ok. Here is what I have: > >14? monitor > >Dell Power Edge 2200 >P II 233 MHz >384 MB Ram >On board Scsi >Cd-Rom / Floppy >No HDD and also missing fan > >Pentium Pro 200MHz >128 MB Ram >(2) 2 GB HDD?s >Floppy / cd-rom >On board sound > >Compaq Deskpro >486 66MHz >64 MB Ram >500 MB Hdd >cd rom/ 5/1/4 inch floppy/ 1.44 mb floppy >nic 10 mb nic >It also has some kind of weird sound card > >Compaq Deskpro >486 Dx4 100 MHz >1.2 GB Hdd >cd-rom/ floppy/ nic >onboard sound >32 mb ram > >Zeos >486 66 MHz >28 mb ram >cd-rom/sound >Modem >Bad floppy >No HDD > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bob.schilmoeller at bigfoot.com Wed Dec 31 14:37:33 2003 From: bob.schilmoeller at bigfoot.com (Bob & Ruth Schilmoeller) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:46:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Old Laptops looking for a good home? Message-ID: <3FF3338D.6020607@bigfoot.com> All, I have been reading this list for a while and this last discussion about the nostalgic computers prompted me to send this inquiry. My church works with a church in Haiti and we have sent several old computers for a lab. I have been to Haiti twice on missions, once to install pumps for water and the last time to set up the computer lab and Direcway satellite internet so we can communicate with them. I am going again the end of February and would like to take some old laptops with me. I would be very appreciative if anyone can point me to access to old (preferable pentium or >, not 3/486) laptops that I could acquire for free or very cheaply. (<$100) Thanks in advance for any pointers! - Bob _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list